2011 Philadelphia Phillies Season Thread (choking awful pos team, DIAF)

[MDS]

its not nonsense

they need another bat more than you need to stop shaving your armpits like a farging woman

[ice grillin you]

a bat would be nice but they certainly dont need one and they def dont need one as much as they need a lock down bullpen arm

odb and stutes cannot be relied upon in the post season

[MDS]

but venters and kimbrel can, im sure.

not that im trying to compare the two but both have the same amount of "experience." which matters so much. just ask josh beckett in 2003. or adam wainwright in 2006.

[ice grillin you]

i dont know if they can or not....but im not talking about the braves nor do i care about them so im not sure why you would even bring them up....tho as a side note ventors has more career appearances than odb and stutes combined....but this is about the phillies winning the world series and right now mike adams helps them more towards that goal than jeff francouer

in 2008 they won with

lidge - closer
madson - set up
roidmero - lefty
durbin - righty

now they have

madson - closer
odb - set up
perez - lefty
stutes - righty

that aint gonna fly....if you got adams that would bump perez out of the equation and you would limit odb to loogy status rather than having responsibility for the entire 8th inning...thats a monster upgrade

i guess you can make the argument that if they get pence or beltran possibly they would help more but otherwise adams would be a much bigger improvement over stutes or perez than a francouer would be over brown/mayberry...not to mention playoff pitching is much more likely to neutralize offense than playoff offense is likely to hit much vs playoff pitching

i used to be fully on the offense bandwagon but after watching how much hitting has fallen off in mlb this year im not so worried about the offense anymore...combine that with contreras being done and they need an arm much more....the one asterik here would be lidge...if he were to come back and be a viable 7th or 8th inning option then the dynamic changes of course...but i dont think anyone is counting on that

in the end the major players...we all know who they are jimmy choke grit polanco (hopefully) braindead and chooch are going to have to come thru with clutch hits or they are going to lose anyway and jeff francouer josh willingham or melky cabrera arent going to change that

[MDS]

ive never been on the get willingham bandwagon. when i say a bat i mean a farging bat. pence, kemp, byrd, someone who hits upwards of .300 and can hit homers.

and one big thing in this mess of a post is they dont need to get 12 outs out of the bullpen anymore. if they are gonna win they are gonna win with getting 3-6 outs. halladay, lee and hamels get you into the 8th. hamels, moyer, blanton and myers did not. if you can add an extra run in that equation it will certainly help.

plus adams is off the market. and even with that im not opposed to another arm, even if lidge is effective. but if they get something out of lidge you have him, stutes and madson which will do just fine.

[Rome]

Why can't they get both a bat and another arm?  And more to the point, why can't you two just rub asses once and for all?

[MDS]

because they need to go big in 1 of the areas and cant do both

getting lets say chad qualls and josh willingham is sort of useless. if you are going to make a move get beltran, pence, kemp OR bell. they dont have the ammo to pull off both.

[PhillyPhreak54]

That catch was sick.

[ice grillin you]

Why can't they get both a bat and another arm?  And more to the point, why can't you two just rub asses once and for all?

they dont have enough in the system to get a legit bat and arm at the deadline....unless you are talking about trading dom brown

ive never been on the get willingham bandwagon. when i say a bat i mean a farging bat. pence, kemp, byrd, someone who hits upwards of .300 and can hit homers.

if you can add an extra run in that equation it will certainly help.

plus adams is off the market. and even with that im not opposed to another arm, even if lidge is effective. but if they get something out of lidge you have him, stutes and madson which will do just fine.

adams isnt off the market....in fact the padre announcers were just talking about how much it will hurt to lose adams and or bell

and no bat you acquire is going to be worth a run per game...the chances that even a pence or beltran hit like .150 in the post season are much higher than untouchable mike adams getting lit up...great pitchers still generally pitch great in the post season...great hitters often get neutralized....who would you put your money on to have a better playoff this year....halladay or utley....sabathia or texiera...yeah a cliff lee is gonna get blown up like he did in last years world series every once in a while but id rather have a shut down pitcher even if its a reliever than a good hitter...especially in a year of the pitcher

[Don Ho]

That catch was sick.

Yes it was.  Damn.

[ice grillin you]

here comes lidger

[MDS]

adams isnt off the market....in fact the padre announcers were just talking about how much it will hurt to lose adams and or bell

and no bat you acquire is going to be worth a run per game...the chances that even a pence or beltran hit like .150 in the post season are much higher than untouchable mike adams getting lit up...great pitchers still generally pitch great in the post season...great hitters often get neutralized....who would you put your money on to have a better playoff this year....halladay or utley....sabathia or texiera...yeah a cliff lee is gonna get blown up like he did in last years world series every once in a while but id rather have a shut down pitcher even if its a reliever than a good hitter...especially in a year of the pitcher

word was that adams was off...not sure what senile enberg thinks.

and im not doubting your argument is legit. but take last year, for example. they didnt lose because of pitching. they lost because of the offense. if you can add a legit bat on top of solidifying the bullpen with grant balfour or chad qualls then they should be in really good shape.

[ice grillin you]

they lost because of not hitting at the right time but they have more than enough hitters in their lineup to do what the giants did last year and more...they just have to do it...getting pence or beltran while a definitely improvement and its a move i would never complain about isnt going to magically make the rest of the guys get clutch hits

i also could argue that the giants bullpen won that series...and thats the kind of blueprint i am looking at

[MDS]

javier lopez and madison bumgarner in game 6 won that series

which means choke and utley did dick.

when it boils down to it choke and grit lost the series for them. if they hit they have 2 rings now. same thing this year. its on them.

[Dillen]

Picking up another bat would absolutely help. You get more guys in the lineup that are capable of going deep or getting on base consistently and you'll obviously have a better chance. It might not average out to be worth one more run a game, but when you've got better players from top to bottom, it's not the end of the world when someone goes cold. It doesn't take a genius to see that's why the Red Sox, Rangers, Yankees have the best offenses in the league. I know the Phils can't get even close to that level because they have more holes in the lineup, but the point still remains. Everyone's going to reference the Giants and their bullpen from last year just because it's the most convenient to remember, but in the playoffs offenses win games just as much as the bullpen.

That being said, the only bats really worth picking up are Pence and Beltran. Willingham would be a worthless pickup. It might be easier or cheaper to pick up some bullpen help so it might be a better option, but it'd be stupid to say that's the only option while dealing for a hitter would be useless.