Game of Thrones

[Eagles_Legendz]

It's cheesy but not when its foreshadowed this much. 

They had Mel visit the Brotherhood for a reason.  They've been laying the plot tracks for this for 3 seasons.  It's why Stoneheart isn't in the show.  You pull that trigger once and that's it.  Martin did it too many times. The Hound never "died".  An ambiguous is he dead moment isn't bringing someone back to life IMO.

Also I think you're misinterpreting what Mel did last episode (or I am - who knows?).  She realized Stannis wasn't the savior.  That's why she bailed, not just to save her own skin.  At that point, what use is "bringing him back" going to do?  She realized the Bolton banners burning etc and what she saw will come true, just not via Stannis.

[QB Eagles]

My guess it that, at this point, no one but George, Dan, Dave, and maybe a couple other writing buddies even know what happens. Nutter's just there to direct scenes.

Jon's definitely dead, no one should be arguing that. The open question is whether his death is permanent. And yeah, that might be bad writing if he was. It'd also be bad writing if the Watch brothers all walk away from his corpse for no reason and let Mel sneak down and resurrect him (because of course she saw everything from her window). It'd also be bad writing if they have a Sand Snake tell Bronn that he needs the bad Hoyda.

[Eagles_Legendz]

That last line is definitely true...

Not sure why they would keep his corpse guarded.  I imagine they'd put it somewhere and then burn it the next day or something.

[Munson]

I meant bad writing on GRRM's head, not the show. GRRM has been dropping mad hints about Jon Snow being vitally important for 5 books, just to kill him?? Seems...weird.

I don't think it would go down with Mel just sneaking down there. I like the theory that they try to burn him on a funeral pyre next season, only to see that he doesn't burn, at which point Mel realizes what the flames have really been telling her and she goes to work.

[QB Eagles]

They had Mel visit the Brotherhood for a reason.

Well what was her other option, waiting for Gendry to visit Dragonstone? Bitch needed King's blood and an excuse to show her tits again and Edric Storm wasn't providing them.  They've had Littlefinger travel about 10,000 miles just to sew plot points together without introducing new book characters, Mel visiting the Brotherhood must have seemed like a no-brainer. Plus she got to substitute for the witch who sees Arya's bleak future.

I think all that R'hllor resurrection stuff was laying the groundwork for Lady Stoneheart. And then they decided not to do it. [Or who knows, maybe they'll still do it next season now that the fans are off on other conspiracies.] Just like they decided to never explain the dagger attack against Bran. I don't think D+D had everything totally mapped out years ago, they write these episodes one season at a time.

I'm with Dio on the idea that things have become hopelessly convoluted and rather degraded from a story perspective from what it was during the first three books and the show seasons associated with them. Not a huge surprise since the first three were more or less written in rough draft form in a mad flurry of creativity 20 years ago, and now Martin procrastinates and looks for any excuse to work on side projects to avoid returning to his DOS word processor. I'm not laying all the problems at Martin's feet because I think the show made a number of missteps this season that seem to have been self-inflicted, as well.

At this point the series could have Jon warg into an ice dragon for two seasons and have him turn into a prince again when Dany kisses his nose. Who the farg knows. It seems like the Night's King was interested in Jon so maybe he'll spend some time in the army of the dead... that would amp up the drama considerably.

It's also not clear to me what would happen when Jon is brought back... I guess Mel would have to smuggle him out or he'd end up with more blades in him. Just for laughs I'd like if the show had him go ask Olly for breakfast.

[QB Eagles]

The episode is generating a lot of tinfoil, which I think D+D like.

I'm willing to concede that just about anything could happen with Jon, but you dig deeper on the Internet and you find some entertaining Stannis truthers and some clueless folk who got the idea that Sansa and Theon actually committed suicide and are now off the show.

It's not completely impossible to me that Brienne spared Stannis (to sell to the Boltons for Sansa -- her 'duty' -- for instance), but you have people analyzing that scene like it's those two frames of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon. I'm pretty sure Stannis was well on the way to bleeding out before Brienne even got there, so it's major tinfoil.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I'm not sure what happens when he's brought back either other than the fact that it lets him out of his vows that he's hung up on. 

I actually disagree about the mapping out part.  I think the show was very mapped out by D&D because there was a roadmap.  I think they decided not to include LS from the get go (Fairley talked about it season 3, so I don't think they decided to send Mel to BwB in season 3 with the idea that it would lay groundwork for LS).  I do wonder now how much has been mapped out since they're entirely off books though.

I also agree that 4/5 were obv the weakest books.

[QB Eagles]

I'm not sure what happens when he's brought back either other than the fact that it lets him out of his vows that he's hung up on.

A lot of people are saying this. Now he can rule Winterfell, marry Dany, etc because he died. So he's not an oathbreaker.

Maybe that's the letter of the law, but it's definitely not the spirit of it. It's for all the nights to come. In his heart I think Jon would still feel wrong turning his back on the Watch. Let's face it, if he leaves it's because his brothers viciously attacked him, and it's not really tenable for him to stick around. Plus I get the sense that the existing Night's Watch could be wiped out by hordes of wildlings in the not too distant future anyway.

There's another weird thing about it. Beric does not publicize that he's been resurrected a bunch, particularly in the books. It's kind of unseemly to be risen. It's also fairly difficult for a person to believe if they haven't seen it firsthand. I don't see Jon blaring it to everyone who can listen as an excuse for getting out of his vows or getting free meals on Memorial Day or whatever. Mostly because most people would just think he's a bullshteinting deserter, but also because people are a little spooked by an undead guy.

[Eagles_Legendz]

He's ready to lead the wildlings  to attack Winterfell in the books.  I'm not sure if abandoning the Watch is the right term, but I think it's setup for him to rule overall in the story.

[smeags]

Can he rule as a snow ? Stannis never named him a stark.

[rjs246]

I think that in a world where someone named Snow defeats a horde of ice zombies, they might be able to overlook his status as a bastich. Maybe.

[smeags]

valid point. i re-watched the finale and my initial reaction may have been fueled by a lot of death. now im like, meh, it was ok i guess. overall this season was def a step down from seasons 1-4.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I liked it more than season 2 and less than the other 3.  I feel like the missteps (Dorne etc) were a little more glaring this year.

Also @smeags - when he takes the throne I don't think he will be Snow.

[Munson]

I loved season 2. This season was definitely my least favorite, but to break it down...

Pretty much everything in The North was fantastic, IMO. As much of a "SJW" as I tend to be, when I'm watching tv shows I don't really  look for shtein to get upset about, so Sansa's rape scene didn't bother me in that way. I've grown used to rape on this show not exactly being used for the best story telling, and it's actually kind of shocking to me that there's a whole bunch of outrage about it now when it started literally in Season 1 episode...1? 2? And, outside of that scene, everything in Winterfell was great. Sophie Turner and Alfie Allen are crushing their rolls, and I'm always interested in Roose/Ramsay interactions. The Wall, north of the Wall, and Stannis' stories were also all great. Just highly upset with how it ended for Stannis. Really wanted him to crush the Boltons in the worst way.

Kings Landing was anywhere from meh to good for me. The Faith Militant isn't exactly the most enthralling story for me, but I don't hate it like some others. Always nice to get a little Lady Olenna action.

Arya's story was kind of slow but also left me thinking every week "alright, so what's next?"...and loved seeing her kill Meryn Trant in such a vicious way.

Essos was pretty good-great for me. Tyrion/Varys interactions are always great, Jorah/Tyrion going through Valyria was a nerdgasm, and Tyrion/Dany is great as well. Dany before Tyrion got there was good, not great, and hated seeing Ser Barristan die.

Dorne was by far the weak part of the season, and it was pretty week. Jaime/Bronn together was good, but that's pretty much it. It just never seemed to actually go anywhere until literally the last scene, which will end up sparking a Dorneish revolt.. But I wanted more of Doran and his possible strategies, and I wanted the Sand Snakes to be awesome and instead they were a major disappointment.

Enjoyed Littlefinger's scenes, though I'm still no where close to knowing what exactly his end game is other than 'power'.

[smeags]

yeah the dorne, kings landing and ayra storylines are what drug it down for me. i do admit seeing trant get taken out the way he did was very satisfying.

dany's storyline was ok, once tyrion got there it def stepped up for me. now with varys there it should get even better.

agreed on the north & beyond the wall. loved pretty much everything that went on. i mean, hard home, need we say anymore ?