Okay, it's over. They lost.
Now what.
2010:
C- Ruiz
1B- Choke
2B- Uts
SS- Young James
3B- ?
LF- Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul
CF- Hacktorino
RF- Werth
Bench- Dobbs
Bench- Francisco
Bench- Power
Bench- Middle Infielder
Bench- Catcher
SP- Lee
SP- Nicole
SP- Jay Aye
SP- ?
SP- ?
RP- Lidge
RP- Madson
RP- Romero
RP- Condrey
RP- ?
RP- ?
RP- ?
Quote from: MDS on November 05, 2009, 12:18:35 AM
2010:
C- Ruiz
1B- Choke
2B- Uts
SS- Young James
3B- ?
LF- Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul
CF- Hacktorino
RF- Werth
Bench- Dobbs
Bench- Francisco
Bench- Power
Bench- Middle Infielder
Bench- Catcher
SP- Lee
SP- Nicole
SP- Jay Aye
SP- ?
SP- ?
RP- Lidge
RP- Madson
RP- Romero
RP- Condrey
RP- ?
RP- ?
RP- ?
Is Pedro's contract up? They love his defense and despite him blowing ass at the plate in the playoffs, I don't think they'll off him just yet.
Wouldn't mind seeing Blanton come back as the 4th. Let one of the young guys like Drabek win the 5th spot. Doubt Myers will be back, but if he does come back, will it be to start again?
Quote from: MDS on November 05, 2009, 12:18:35 AM
2010:
C- Ruiz - 2009- $475k 2010- arb.
1B- Choke 2009- $15mil 2010- $19
2B- Uts 2009- $11.2mil 2010- $15.2
SS- Young James 2009- $8.5 mil 2010- same
3B- ?
LF- Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul 2009- $7.1mil 2010-$12.1
CF- Hacktorino 2009- $3.1 arb...
RF- Werth 2009- $2.5 mil 2010- $7.5
Bench- Dobbs 2009- $1.1mil 2010-$1.3
Bench- Francisco 2010- i'm pretty sure he's a FA
Bench- Power
Bench- Middle Infielder
Bench- Catcher
SP- Lee $8 mil club option for next year.
SP- Nicole 2009- $4.3 mil 2010- a box of tampons. ($6.6 mil).. thief
SP- Jay Aye
SP- ? moyer 2009- $6.5mil 2010- $6.5
SP- ?
RP- Lidge 2009- $12mil 2010- $12 fraud.
RP- Madson 2009- $2.3mil 2010- $4.8
RP- Romero 2009- $4.2mil 2010 $4.2
RP- Condrey 2009- $650k
RP- ?
RP- ?
RP- ?
they need to get rid of jamie. maybe a trade for some bench or bullpen help.
they need to try and hold onto ho cheese and myers (on the cheap) and blanton.
a good amount of money is due in raises. its going to be interesting to see who's going to be coming up and challenging for spots.
i forgot.. feliz is a club option. i really hate that guy.
Feliz will be back. As pissed as I am, he did have back surgery in the off season so maybe he'll be back to 100% next year.
lol, he doesn't get much better then he was this year.. if at all.
its that age old issue, his defense is great, and offense is streaky.
i dont care how overpaid he is going to be get chone figgins put him at 3b and leadoff (move jimmy down in the order)
get the best OF bench player you can find because ibanez is done and is going to fall like a boulder starting next year...they are going to need someone to platoon with him if hes simply below average or take over for him if hes horrible
trade happ....his value will never be higher and while i dont think hs kyle kendrick im not sure hes a major league starting pitcher either and even if he is he certainly has a worth right now that far exceeds his potential
pray hamels gets it back
get charlie a sufficient right hand man ala jimy williams
throw wheels off the walt whitman
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 05, 2009, 08:41:06 AM
i dont care how overpaid he is going to be get chone figgins put him at 3b and leadoff (move jimmy down in the order)
get the best OF bench player you can find because ibanez is done and is going to fall like a boulder starting next year...they are going to need someone to platoon with him if hes simply below average or take over for him if hes horrible
trade happ....his value will never be higher and while i dont think hs kyle kendrick im not sure hes a major league starting pitcher either and even if he is he certainly has a worth right now that far exceeds his potential
pray hamels gets it back
get charlie a sufficient right hand man ala jimy williams
throw wheels off the walt whitman
I totally agree about Raul. This was his career year and is probably going to anchor. I disagree about Happ. He has some good stuff and I think he will continue to develop. Let's see if Jamie can teach the kid.
Figgins can suck my left one. Feliz is fine at third. The Phils have much bigger issues with their pitching.
Why would they go out and get an outfielder? They have some talent on the farm that is pretty much ready to make the next step.
The big thing next year is which Cole shows up. If he is dominant like he was two years ago they have a legit shot to win it all. If not it will end like this season or worse.
In fairness to Raul he was banged up for most of the second half. Hard to really know how that abdominal tear affected his play.
I would like to see some bullpen help and a deeper bench. I think their rotation is set for the most part. I would imagine Blanton comes back, so it will be a fight for the 5th starter and maybe Drabek shows something in spring training.
I don't know if they bring Myers back. He's still a quality starter and some team will pay him starter's money. Knowing him he would probably want to pitch out of the bullpen so he could contribute almost every day but I don't think he'll take a substantial pay decrease to do that.
I'd imagine Feliz is back because I don't know who else they would get there. I don't think that's a "break the bank" position for this team.
And a lot of the bad money comes off the books for the Phils this off-season. The only money that I see that is wasted is that they owe Moyer $7 million next year. I'd imagine he may be done, and I'm not sure if I want to see them waste a 5th rotation spot on him. And they can in no way trade him because not many teams are going to want a 47 (48?) year old pitcher who just ripped apart his groin. Plus if he was traded I'd imagine he'd just retire -- I don't think he wants to play anywhere else.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on November 05, 2009, 09:33:02 AM
Why would they go out and get an outfielder? They have some talent on the farm that is pretty much ready to make the next step.
all they have is michael taylor who is overrated imo....dominic brown is not ready
i wouldnt have a problem with taylor as strictly a bench player but they need a fourth outfielder that is guaranteed major league ready and is able to start as well as be there to strengthen the bench
one guy they could bring up next year that could really help the team is scott matheison...he seems all the way back from his TJ's had a really good year in the minors and is tearing up the fall league....he could be a very good and more importantly a in house addition to the pen
Quote from: MDS on November 05, 2009, 12:18:35 AM
2010:
C- Ruiz
1B- Choke
2B- Uts
SS- Young James
3B- ?
LF- Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul
CF- Hacktorino
RF- Werth
Bench- Dobbs
Bench- Francisco
Bench- Power
Bench- Middle Infielder
Bench- Catcher
SP- Lee
SP- Nicole
SP- Jay Aye
SP- ?
SP- ?
RP- Lidge
RP- Madson
RP- Romero
RP- Condrey
RP- ?
RP- ?
RP- ?
don't forget blanton in the starting rotation. i believe the phils signed him to a long(er) term deal this offseason, no? regardless, he was steady in the regular season and probably pitched better against the yanks than we thought he would given his career numbers vs that lineup. he's a solid arm at the bottom of the rotation.
what's the status on chan ho and eyre? free agents? is eyre going to retire? i'd love to see chan ho back in the pen next year if he's willing to do it. eyre was probably pitching above his ability this year but was really consistant throughout so i guess he can come back next year even though he'll probably suck.
i hope drabek is ready to go because the phils need a strong right arm at the top of the rotation. either that or call toronto and see if they're still interested in trading halliday for drabek, happ and his shteiny diapers.
give cliff lee a blank check right now. after his performance this year, if he follows it up next year with anything even close to that and gets to free agency then he'll be a yankee in 2011.
blanton is arbitration eligible so he will be back
drabek will fight for the 5th spot in the rotation...no chance hes close to a top of the rotation guy....hes not even guaranteed to make the club
Drabek will be in Lehigh Valley
Park won't be back if he still thinks he's a starter
Myers will probably get a fresh start somewhere else.....I think they've had enough of his crap
Even if Eyre decides to come back for another season, they need another lefty specialist besides JC. Mike Gonzalez will probably be a Type A FA and close somewhere. Darren Oliver might be a Type A too.
The bench needs to be overhauled. Would Thome accept a 1-yr deal for about $3M to come back, replace Stairs, maybe play 2-3 games at 1B and be a DH for interleague and hopefully the WS? DeRosa, Hairston Jr and Belliard are also FAs...
3B...if you don't bring Feliz back, besides Figgins there's also Adrian Beltre, Troy Glaus, Joe Crede and Melvin Mora out there...
phils go after halladay again in the offseason and get him.
lee-halladay-hamels-blanton-happ
one rumor floated to me was hamels and brown/taylor for halladay.
just on the basis that trading one means you need to long term BOTH werth and vic, plus probably happ at some point, and then give hallday at least 5 years at big money means ownership will have to okay a huge payroll increase. like closer to $160 range than the $120 theyre in.
if thats okayed, and they have the cash to do it, then great. pull the trigger. if not, throw in the all the mid level prospects you want plus hamels to rent halladay for a year. go lee/halladay 1-2 and stick it up the yankees cornholes.
Quote from: MDS on November 05, 2009, 12:04:33 PM
one rumor floated to me was hamels and brown/taylor for halladay.
just on the basis that trading one means you need to long term BOTH werth and vic, plus probably happ at some point, and then give hallday at least 5 years at big money means ownership will have to okay a huge payroll increase. like closer to $160 range than the $120 theyre in.
if thats okayed, and they have the cash to do it, then great. pull the trigger. if not, throw in the all the mid level prospects you want plus hamels to rent halladay for a year. go lee/halladay 1-2 and stick it up the yankees cornholes.
Thats not a rumor.
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 05, 2009, 08:41:06 AM
i dont care how overpaid he is going to be get chone figgins put him at 3b and leadoff (move jimmy down in the order)
get the best OF bench player you can find because ibanez is done and is going to fall like a boulder starting next year...they are going to need someone to platoon with him if hes simply below average or take over for him if hes horrible
trade happ....his value will never be higher and while i dont think hs kyle kendrick im not sure hes a major league starting pitcher either and even if he is he certainly has a worth right now that far exceeds his potential
pray hamels gets it back
get charlie a sufficient right hand man ala jimy williams
throw wheels off the walt whitman
Michael Taylor is more than ready if someone gets hurt next year.
Unless of course you want them to trade Victorion and put Taylor in right which I would 100% do.
not a rumor is an in totally made up? or fact? cause i keep forgetting that youre so connected.
As in totally made up.
<---- Still bitter and enraged...
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 05, 2009, 12:23:34 PM
As in totally made up.
possibly, but its a feasible none the less. and i would really look into it.
also trading hacktorino im all for. sign figgins to lead off, start taylor and see what you can get for vic.
From what I understand the Phillies are financially maxed out as far as the payroll goes. Maybe this changed because of the World Series, maybe it hasn't, but I definitely wouldn't count on a 30 million increase on a payroll a year after the payroll went up 20 million.
I'm pretty sure 160 million would put the Phillies a close third in payroll behind Boston if not ahead of them.
that would put them in sox/mets range, yea.
im sure they can afford. they caked off this year like igy.
Also, something needs to be done about Rollins.
He is another guy like Happ and Victorino whose percieved value far exceeds their actual value. He's in the last year of his contract and after 2 World Series appearances I think Amaro might want to shake things up big time. This might be the way to do it. Get a few stud left side of the infield prospects and ensure we keep this thing going well into the teens.
Quote from: MDS on November 05, 2009, 12:04:33 PM
one rumor floated to me was hamels and brown/taylor for halladay.
no way i trade hamels in the off season...i def go into next year with hamels as my 2 and see what he does...because if he shows hes back then you gave up him and brown for no reason...if he shteins the bed again then you have all year to make an in season move with prospects
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 05, 2009, 12:22:05 PM
Michael Taylor is more than ready if someone gets hurt next year.
Unless of course you want them to trade Victorion and put Taylor in right which I would 100% do.
that would be insane on a team whose goal is to win the world series next year to roll the dice on a complete unknown rookie and dump a proven veteran...thats why id be willing to have taylor platoon with ibanez and see if he is capable of being major leaguer at all much less a full timer
LOL @ the continued Rollins hate from Beane.
Retard.
igy you fool
jihad scouted him for weeks at reading. he talked to him. he knows hes ready. he didnt just read stats and nerd minor league message boards.
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 05, 2009, 12:47:07 PM
Also, something needs to be done about Rollins.
He is another guy like Happ and Victorino whose percieved value far exceeds their actual value. He's in the last year of his contract and after 2 World Series appearances I think Amaro might want to shake things up big time. This might be the way to do it. Get a few stud left side of the infield prospects and ensure we keep this thing going well into the teens.
lol @ thinking amaro wants to "shake things up" after 2 straight ws appearances. this team doesn't need to be shaken up but it does need some adjustments and improvements in certain areas. the only adjustment that needs to be made regarding rollins is that they need to bring in someone who is a true leadoff hitter and drop jimmy to 2 in the batting order.
leadoff hitter
rollins
utley
choke
werth
raul
chooch/victorino
victorino/chooch
pitcher
jimmy might be less of a two hitter than a leadoff guy
i agree with the overall look...you have this group fully together for another year...it only needs some tweaking
really you can make an argument that the only thing they need to win the world series again is a 2008 cole hamels
I don't think there is an argument if you have 08 Hamels not too much needs to be done.
jimmy rollins sucks and i hate him and hes black and hes not as hot as chase utley and he doesnt walk and i like being an ass and starting internet trouble
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 05, 2009, 01:20:10 PM
really you can make an argument that the only thing they need to win the world series again is a 2008 cole hamels
This might be the most accurate statement you've EVER made on this board.
Congrats.
Dook.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 05, 2009, 02:00:01 PM
This might be the statement I've agreed with most that you've EVER made on this board.
thanks
oh ahaha, I see what you did there. Changing what I said to what you wanted it to.
Ohhh, you're so tricky and sneaky!
douche
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 05, 2009, 01:20:10 PM
jimmy might be less of a two hitter than a leadoff guy
i agree with the overall look...you have this group fully together for another year...it only needs some tweaking
really you can make an argument that the only thing they need to win the world series again is a 2008 cole hamels
i put him at 2 because i don't think there's anywhere else you can really put him. far be it from me to care about athlete's feelings but i couldn't see him being dropped to the bottom of the order and not bitching about it. nor do i think he's a bottom of the order guy. hitting right infront of grit might do him some good.
the major tweaking needed on this team is the bench, which practically needs to be blown up, and the middle relief in the pen. they do need to bring in someone with a closer mentality/ability incase madson and lidge shtein the bed again next year. or put myers in the pen for good.
jimmy would be dreadful as a two hitter because the two things you need to be a successful two hitter are his two biggest weaknesses...bat control and OBP...
so when you need him to get a ball to the right side of the infield to advance someone...or be patient and take a bunch of pitches to allow the leadoff guy to run hes not gonna be proficient at that
on the other side of it why would you want a low OBP guy right in front of utley and choke
the one plus of having him in the 2 hole is that hes a very good fastball hitter and the two spot tends to get an abundance of those because often the pitcher is having to deal with a speedster on first...but that doesnt come close to outweighing his engatives in that spot
is calling chase grit a joke or is this some new nickname? because it's really awful.
Lidge needed work done on his knee last offseason...same as the first season he was here. He decided not to get it done and paid the price. If he has the work done, he might be back to 100% health wise....but is his mind farged up from this past season?
Quote from: phattymatty on November 05, 2009, 03:56:38 PM
is calling chase grit a joke or is this some new nickname? because it's really awful.
one doesnt get called GRIT one
is GRIT
It started because igy thinks Rollins is better than Utley.
it started in a gritty little house in southern california a long long time ago...
so yea. basically igy doesn't have any clue about baseball, but has a cult like following on here that loves their igyisms.
somebodys salty cause everyone knows hes a moron...
didn't the grit name come about because of that stupid article about gritty players?
it came from wherever will make beane stop sobbing
IGY thinks Rollins is better than Utley because Rollins talks a lot and Utley is gritty, which is definitely what makes a player better.
GRIT makes the world better
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on November 05, 2009, 01:34:04 PM
I don't think there is an argument if you have 08 Hamels not too much needs to be done.
08 Hamels and Lidge would have done it. Surgery for Lidge and a punch in the head for Hamels. Fixed.
08 hamels was an above average pitcher. i think he went 14-11 on the year. he was good, but he had his struggles as well. he just happened to be money in the playoffs when it counted and that's what people expect him to do every game. ain't gonna happen. if we're lucky though, hamels will be better in 2010 than he was in 2008....maybe a 16-8 type guy. at least, that's my early aspiration for him.
08 lidge ain't never coming back. and i don't say that because i think lidge is done. i just don't think he's ever going to be perfect in save opportunities for an entire season / post season again. but that's fine and as long as he limits his blown saves next year to somewhere around 6 or less, then he'd be good to go imo.
watching him throw his slider in the playoffs was encouraging. needs a little more zip on the fastball though.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 05, 2009, 07:03:59 PM
08 hamels was an above average pitcher. i think he went 14-11 on the year. he was good, but he had his struggles as well. he just happened to be money in the playoffs when it counted and that's what people expect him to do every game. ain't gonna happen. if we're lucky though, hamels will be better in 2010 than he was in 2008....maybe a 16-8 type guy. at least, that's my early aspiration for him.
08 lidge ain't never coming back. and i don't say that because i think lidge is done. i just don't think he's ever going to be perfect in save opportunities for an entire season / post season again. but that's fine and as long as he limits his blown saves next year to somewhere around 6 or less, then he'd be good to go imo.
Are you really trying to evaluate a pitcher's performance based on W-L?
Not only does this is not in any way reflective of a pitcher's performance, it isn't even a nice factor to throw in there when evalutating a pitcher. There really aren't too many people left in the media besides Joe Morgan that thinks W-L record is an indicator of performance at all.
How can you possibly be so far behind the times? I won't even debate this with you its just laughable.
Please find a stat geek board to post on.
Seriously.
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 05, 2009, 07:08:35 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 05, 2009, 07:03:59 PM
08 hamels was an above average pitcher. i think he went 14-11 on the year. he was good, but he had his struggles as well. he just happened to be money in the playoffs when it counted and that's what people expect him to do every game. ain't gonna happen. if we're lucky though, hamels will be better in 2010 than he was in 2008....maybe a 16-8 type guy. at least, that's my early aspiration for him.
08 lidge ain't never coming back. and i don't say that because i think lidge is done. i just don't think he's ever going to be perfect in save opportunities for an entire season / post season again. but that's fine and as long as he limits his blown saves next year to somewhere around 6 or less, then he'd be good to go imo.
Are you really trying to evaluate a pitcher's performance based on W-L?
Not only does this is not in any way reflective of a pitcher's performance, it isn't even a nice factor to throw in there when evalutating a pitcher. There really aren't too many people left in the media besides Joe Morgan that thinks W-L record is an indicator of performance at all.
How can you possibly be so far behind the times? I won't even debate this with you its just laughable.
lol, w/l record most definitely is an
indicator. it just doesn't paint the whole picture. sure, you'll have a guy like zach grienke who would probably have somewhere around 18 wins this year if he played on a team that could score and give him a little run support. and if you look just at his w/l record then you would think that he was just an average pitcher. but it's not like there's 30 pitchers out there who can make that claim. there's a very small number of pitchers out there that have a w/l record that contradicts their actual performance both good and bad.
i think jamie moyer probably benefited from run support more than him going out there and shutting other teams down. so his w/l record is also a tad misleading.
but for the most part, if a pitcher goes out and wins 15+ game a year, then he's probably a pretty good pitcher regardless of what team he plays on. and i do agree that anyone who strictly looks at wins and losses to evaluate a pitcher is an idiot.
has bob ford been reading IGY?
Quote
History rolls on, and someday soon it will begin to judge this era in the Phils' team history. If this is the last World Series appearance for the current group, history will regard it with little more than a shrug.
Getting back-to-back World Series appearances is great, but beating the Tampa Bay Rays and losing to the Yankees would be a lot more impressive if the outcomes were reversed.
No, this team has to get into another World Series in the next few years and win that one in order to join the conversation of great teams. If the Phils can do that, if the front office can keep the roster together and add some pitching, they belong in the conversation.
try and claim something not so obvious and maybe you can get some props and a pat on the back big dog
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 05, 2009, 07:03:59 PM
08 hamels was an above average pitcher. i think he went 14-11 on the year. he was good, but he had his struggles as well. he just happened to be money in the playoffs when it counted and that's what people expect him to do every game. ain't gonna happen. if we're lucky though, hamels will be better in 2010 than he was in 2008....maybe a 16-8 type guy. at least, that's my early aspiration for him.
08 lidge ain't never coming back. and i don't say that because i think lidge is done. i just don't think he's ever going to be perfect in save opportunities for an entire season / post season again. but that's fine and as long as he limits his blown saves next year to somewhere around 6 or less, then he'd be good to go imo.
watching him throw his slider in the playoffs was encouraging. needs a little more zip on the fastball though.
I think once his knee is cleaned out, his zip will be back. I don't care if we don't get back the "perfect" Lidge. It would virtually impossible to repeat that feat.
they still need bullpen help.. preferably someone who can step in and close if for some ungodly reason lidge doesn't return to his former glory. maybe they can get something packaging for moyer. he's not even an option next year.. and if they can't get anything for him they need to force him into retirement.
not getting anyone good. no good reliever is signing there knowing full well they could be a 7th inning guy. whether you like it or not lidge, madson and jc is the back end. thats set in stone.
How about taking a gamble on Rich Harden as a top of the rotation guy? Injury history, but nasty stuff when healthy. lee, Harden, Hamels is a nice 1-2-3 punch. Then you sign a 3rd baseman(Figgins/Beltre) and fill out the bench and bullpen.
WFC part II.
Quote from: LBIggle on November 06, 2009, 12:49:13 AM
they still need bullpen help.. preferably someone who can step in and close if for some ungodly reason lidge doesn't return to his former glory. maybe they can get something packaging for moyer. he's not even an option next year.. and if they can't get anything for him they need to force him into retirement.
munson's trailer has a higher trade in value than moyer. even without the injury, 45 yr old pitchers don't tend to fetch very much on the trade market.
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 12:54:43 AM
not getting anyone good. no good reliever is signing there knowing full well they could be a 7th inning guy. whether you like it or not lidge, madson and jc is the back end. thats set in stone.
yeah, cuz that worked out so well this year. no need to have any backup plan.
it might be hard signing someone to that role that's why i said packaging moyers ass out of here.. the bullpen was the weak link, and not far behind was the bench.
if they fail on that front.. then they need to consider resigning myers for that role. he's valuable having closing, starting, and now a little setup experience and seems happy doing whatever. hopefully they can get chan ho back but that might be reaching if he still thinks he's going to start after this years abortion of a try.
nobody wants moyer
they cant just sign free agents like the yankees. while they generate revenue, its not enough to pull the payroll past the $120 mil area its in right now. in fact, it might have to go down. also they have major raises coming to werth and vic. they have to talk long term to lee. they have to pay joey big nuts more.
what they have now is what theyll go with. it got them within 2 wins of the world series and that was with no closer and no starting pitching past 1 guy. id say thats pretty good.
right. not having a closer gets you within 2 outs, actually having those gets you the prize.. see last year. that's why they need to make sure they have that taken care of for this year. they need a healthy myers designated for that role or another option. eaton, jenkins, and thome all come off the books this year. if the bullpen stops the bleeding in some of these games, maybe they would have pulled it off this year.
they were an average lidge away from a game 7. might not have won that game 7 if it happened but no need to freak out over it.
there is no "safety" valve for the pen that exists. madson is your safety valve. jc is another. you can get chan ho again if he want to stay. or someone like him if he walks. some big name reliever isnt coming to here to mop up games and pitch the 7th inning. its not happening. they can make a trade for one but you have guys like condrey and matheison on the roster on the cheap. plug them in and see if they can do the job. if they cant, you make a trade or two by the deadline. the bullpen looks astronomically better with a fresh brad lidge and jc romero. plus they already have the nl east won, so really, this is a "problem" that needs to be fixed by september 2010.
lets talk then.
The bullpen wasn't actually that bad in the playoffs considering all the injuries. It got hit around in a couple games to the Yankees. Ok, well the Yankees lineup is full of power. It happens sometimes. They will probably get another lefty or two for middle relief, but no big-time closer or setup man.
The main offseason will be spent upgrading the bench with some guys who they can actually feel comfortable with spelling Utley and Rollins, and possibly getting another starting pitcher with Pedro and Moyer most likely done here.
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 02:15:00 AM
they were an average lidge away from a game 7. might not have won that game 7 if it happened but no need to freak out over it.
you do know that lidge didnt blow a save he gave up runs in a tie game?
even if he gets out of that inning chances are the yankees win anyway as the phillies had one clutch hit the entire seriers and that was by p happy
either way to say they were right on the cusp of a game seven if not for lidge is a huge stretch
not to mention Lidge was average. He had 2 outs and blew a big hit---thats an average Lidge
There is no chance the payroll goes down this year. It might not go up, but it won't go down.
yeah, i can't see payroll dropping after coming off a 2nd consecutive ws appearance. i could see it remaining about the same, but there's almost no way it goes down.
QuotePhillies hoping to get Brad Lidge going soon
Although Philadelphia closer Brad Lidge has struggled all season long, including a disastrous ninth inning in Game 4 of the just-completed World Series, Phillies manager Charlie Manuel says the team will remain patient with Lidge. "We know this guy's track record," said Manuel. "Just because the season is over, it's no time to panic. Brad will work his way through this. The consequences are too great for him not to." The Phillies say they are willing to wait it out. "We trust Brad," said team leader Jimmy Rollins. "If he sabotages our 2009 season, 2010 season, 2011 season and even beyond, that's okay. He had a good season in 2008 and the rest of us must respect that and be loyal to him regardless of his performance. Doing anything else would be crazy."
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 06, 2009, 06:39:43 AM
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 02:15:00 AM
they were an average lidge away from a game 7. might not have won that game 7 if it happened but no need to freak out over it.
you do know that lidge didnt blow a save he gave up runs in a tie game?
even if he gets out of that inning chances are the yankees win anyway as the phillies had one clutch hit the entire seriers and that was by p happy
either way to say they were right on the cusp of a game seven if not for lidge is a huge stretch
looooooooooooooooooooool
phil coke in the 9th inning of a tie game? WIN. "clutch" doesnt exist you idiot. phil coke sucks. he wasnt getting out of the inning alive. cliff lee wins game 5, they back to ny up 3-2, lose game 6 and we have a game a 7.
its really simple when you think about it, actually.
when you had a series as bad as jimmy, of course you're going to back lidge.
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 06, 2009, 06:39:43 AM
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 02:15:00 AM
they were an average lidge away from a game 7. might not have won that game 7 if it happened but no need to freak out over it.
you do know that lidge didnt blow a save he gave up runs in a tie game?
even if he gets out of that inning chances are the yankees win anyway as the phillies had one clutch hit the entire seriers and that was by p happy
either way to say they were right on the cusp of a game seven if not for lidge is a huge stretch
looooooooooooooooooooool
phil coke in the 9th inning of a tie game? WIN. "clutch" doesnt exist you idiot. phil coke sucks. he wasnt getting out of the inning alive. cliff lee wins game 5, they back to ny up 3-2, lose game 6 and we have a game a 7.
its really simple when you think about it, actually.
yeah, if the phils went into the btm of the 9th tied, rivera wouldn't have come out and i believe the phils had the top of the order coming up. you can't help but think the phils would have won it right there. of course, they didn't so farg it.
well yea, it dont matter now
but the point is if lidge is halfway decent his slider is better and he can put away damon. and he doesnt hit tex. and he has more confidence in his slider to throw to arod even with damon on 3rd.
thats why you figure a better lidge and they can get it done again.
Apparently Amaro met the press today and it doesn't sound like Feliz will be back thank god.
Someone asked about Moyer and Amaro said why would he turn down guaranteed money. Awesome.
We're going to have to sit through his games before he breaks a hip again next year.
all that means is he wont be cut. hes coming to spring training. so is drabek, so is kendrick, so are other people.
really its a 5th starter, not a pressing issue.
good to know about feliz though, he might not be in the league next year.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 06, 2009, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 12:37:19 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 06, 2009, 06:39:43 AM
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 02:15:00 AM
they were an average lidge away from a game 7. might not have won that game 7 if it happened but no need to freak out over it.
you do know that lidge didnt blow a save he gave up runs in a tie game?
even if he gets out of that inning chances are the yankees win anyway as the phillies had one clutch hit the entire seriers and that was by p happy
either way to say they were right on the cusp of a game seven if not for lidge is a huge stretch
looooooooooooooooooooool
phil coke in the 9th inning of a tie game? WIN. "clutch" doesnt exist you idiot. phil coke sucks. he wasnt getting out of the inning alive. cliff lee wins game 5, they back to ny up 3-2, lose game 6 and we have a game a 7.
its really simple when you think about it, actually.
yeah, if the phils went into the btm of the 9th tied, rivera wouldn't have come out and i believe the phils had the top of the order coming up. you can't help but think the phils would have won it right there. of course, they didn't so farg it.
yeah because the phils hitting was so clutch all series...especially the top of the order
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 06, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Apparently Amaro met the press today and it doesn't sound like Feliz will be back thank god.
Someone asked about Moyer and Amaro said why would he turn down guaranteed money. Awesome.
We're going to have to sit through his games before he breaks a hip again next year.
the phils are paying moyer next year regardless. it's just a matter of are they going to pay him to play or pay him to stay home.
if he plays, he's the 5th starter. i can probably live with that.
Quote from: MDS on November 06, 2009, 01:28:29 PM
good to know about feliz though, he might not be in the league next year.
he'll find a job somewhere. even though he sucks at the plate, his glove alone will grab the attention of any team looking to boost up defensively at the hot corner. not to mention that there will be a couple of gm's out there who will be dumb enough to say "but he hit 20+ homers for 4 years straight" completely overlooking the fact that it was in san fran, with barry bonds and during the height of the balco scandal.
theres no possible way moyer starts a single game for the phillies next year....if he doesnt retire...out of respect...they will "let him compete" in spring training for the 5th spot but it aint happening
Myers officially gone (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/Phillies_wont_bring_Myers_back_next_season.html)
QuoteAmaro gave him no reason for the decision not to attempt to extend the relationship between the team and the pitcher. "I was just like, 'OK, thanks for putting up with my s**t.' "
.
.
.
"Hopefully I'll be playing against the Phillies and when I do I want the roughest treatment the fans can give me – when I'm pitching. I'm an opposing player – you have to give it to me."
good.
Next.
boom. outta here.
even though he never quite lived upto expectations, i always liked him and his wife beating ways.
lol wife beater.
The "beat that wife!" chants from the parade last year will always have a special place in my heart.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091106&content_id=7632048&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091106&content_id=7632048&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
option for lee officially picked up. amaro said they have been in touch with lee's agent throughout the postseason.. would consider an extension.
bunch of filler on how much they like feliz but believe they should at least talk about getting better there. decision has to be made monday.
lidge to be checked for loose bodies in his elbow.
Excellent
http://deadspin.com/5398975/farg-your-parade-yankees
im one that hopes they dont sign lee.....especially if hes gonna be looking at or near sabathia money
Quote from: King Cole on November 06, 2009, 04:49:24 PM
The "beat that wife!" chants from the parade last year will always have a special place in my heart.
:-D That would have been worth flying up for!
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 06, 2009, 05:01:29 PM
Excellent
http://deadspin.com/5398975/farg-your-parade-yankees
That was awesome! Thank you. Forwarded to all my Friends who despise these jerks as much as we do. Jay Z? I was hoping for Kurt Russell dressed as Snake Pliskin.
I turned off the TV last night when those dickwads were on Letterman. Letterman is another Yankee lip server.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 06, 2009, 03:06:08 PM
Myers officially gone (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/Phillies_wont_bring_Myers_back_next_season.html)
QuoteAmaro gave him no reason for the decision not to attempt to extend the relationship between the team and the pitcher. "I was just like, 'OK, thanks for putting up with my s**t.' "
.
.
.
"Hopefully I'll be playing against the Phillies and when I do I want the roughest treatment the fans can give me – when I'm pitching. I'm an opposing player – you have to give it to me."
BOOOOOOOOOO to the Phillies.
The farg are you talking about?
Myers sucked and he was ghastly overpaid.
Good riddance to that douchebag.
Myers future > Hamels future
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 06, 2009, 06:30:22 PM
Myers future > Hamels future
(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5957/nunbong.jpg)
it gets lol-tastic when phreak turns his homeristic powers towards the evil side
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 06, 2009, 05:01:29 PM
Excellent
http://deadspin.com/5398975/farg-your-parade-yankees
meh, i'm over it now. i'm still pissed, but my anti-yankee rage has subsided for the moment. my anger lies with the ineptitude the phils showed during that series. you want to beat a team like that, with individual players who have contracts bigger than what alot of teams will spend over 3 years, then you need to show the farg up and play ball. farg the yanks but farg the phils even more for punking out on the biggest stage any of them have ever been on, and in many cases, will ever be on.
i found it quite sickening that espn news televised the whole yankee parade live
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 06, 2009, 08:46:39 PM
i found it quite sickening that espn news televised the whole yankee parade live
serious? i was off today but i'm glad i didn't turn espn on at all. guess i can't say i'm suprised by it because espn has made who knows how much money from sawx/yankees over the last 10 years.
yeah its not surprising but its pretty insulting
yeah, what'd the phils get.....10 seconds on sportscenter?
i was pretty much blacked out drunk from the time game 5 ended thru the weekend and saw no tv but yeah im guessing they got a blip on the friday 6pm sportscenter
i just saw a pidgeon on the tree outside
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 06, 2009, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 06, 2009, 05:01:29 PM
Excellent
http://deadspin.com/5398975/farg-your-parade-yankees
meh, i'm over it now. i'm still pissed, but my anti-yankee rage has subsided for the moment. my anger lies with the ineptitude the phils showed during that series. you want to beat a team like that, with individual players who have contracts bigger than what alot of teams will spend over 3 years, then you need to show the farg up and play ball. farg the yanks but farg the phils even more for punking out on the biggest stage any of them have ever been on, and in many cases, will ever be on.
I'm over it too, but it was funny as shtein.
I haven't heard or seen one Yankees-related piece since the Phillies lost the other night. That's what happens when you don't watch sports on television, read the sports pages or otherwise pay one bit of attention to what's going on in the world.
I will say a couple of times I heard announcers begin the word "yan..." to which I immediately began screaming, "lalalalalalala i can't hear you... lalalalala" which, it turns out, is fairly amusing to most people, although not to my co-workers who heard it all day yesterday.
Myers has more balls than Hamels will ever have on the mound. I bet he has the better overall career.
And I also bet he'll end up in Houston. Which will suck.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 06, 2009, 10:08:32 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 06, 2009, 08:39:35 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 06, 2009, 05:01:29 PM
Excellent
http://deadspin.com/5398975/farg-your-parade-yankees
meh, i'm over it now. i'm still pissed, but my anti-yankee rage has subsided for the moment. my anger lies with the ineptitude the phils showed during that series. you want to beat a team like that, with individual players who have contracts bigger than what alot of teams will spend over 3 years, then you need to show the farg up and play ball. farg the yanks but farg the phils even more for punking out on the biggest stage any of them have ever been on, and in many cases, will ever be on.
I'm over it too, but it was funny as shtein.
I am shocked how quickly I got over this one. Winning it last year and beating the Rockies and especially the Dodgers this post season helped ease the pain. Game 4 against the Dodgers was just amazing. I can't remember reacting like that to a Philadelphia sporting victory in a long, long time. Sixers beating the Raptors in game 7 of the conference semis in 01was the last time I reacted like that. Once the bums went down 2-1 and Blanton was up for game 4, I had a bad feeling. I was actually more pissed about game 3 than game 4. Yankees are tools and even my friends who are true die-hard Yankee fans despise this shtein, Steinbrenners, Celebrity ass lickers, the new stadium, corporate b.s., etc.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 06, 2009, 11:55:14 PM
Myers has more balls than Hamels will ever have on the mound. I bet he has the better overall career.
And I also bet he'll end up in Houston. Which will suck.
Myers blows. He sucks. He's not tough, he's not ballsy. He sucks and he's stupid. He's an icehole. He is white trash oh i see why you like him.
lol...a white trash joke. That would sting if I was remotely close to being a hick, but I'm not.
I know, kiddo. It's just that Myers blows. And everyone was tired of his shtein.
Quote from: Don Ho on November 07, 2009, 12:13:50 AMI am shocked how quickly I got over this one. Winning it last year and beating the Rockies and especially the Dodgers this post season helped ease the pain.
I'm pretty sure I said after last season that the Phillies get a free pass for 5 years, and for me anyway, that was right. A few days out from losing a winnable World Series against a team I hate, a win that would have cemented them as an all-time great team, and I'm pretty fine with the loss.
Quote from: Don Ho on November 07, 2009, 12:13:50 AMGame 4 against the Dodgers was just amazing. I can't remember reacting like that to a Philadelphia sporting victory in a long, long time.
For me that's Philly sports moment of the year 2009 right there.
"swing and a drive, right center field, this one is FALLING it's a base hit, it'll go up the alley, bruntlett will score, ruiz around third, he is being waved home THE PHILLIES HAVE WON THE BALLGAME ruiz slides, rollins has won it, they stream out of the dugout, rollins mobbed near third THIS GAME IS OVER phillies strike again with two outs in the ninth inning and they have a three games to one lead!"
Quote from: Don Ho on November 07, 2009, 12:13:50 AMI was actually more pissed about game 3 than game 4.
Oddly enough, Game 2 is the one that bothers me. One run out of six hits, and wasted a quality Pedro start. The series would have been radically different if the Phils had taken the first two in New York, and it wouldn't have taken a miracle to have won that game.
games 2 and 3 are the ones that stand out in my mind too. like you said, just totally wasted a quality start by pedro (again) and then in game 3, they gave mrs hamels an early 3 run lead and he still couldn't man up for 1 farging game. ONE GAME! now i'm getting pissed all over again.
arrrgghh the anger sharks are swimming in my head
the andy petitte curveball is the only thing in the entire series thats pisses me off...other than that the phillies simply played a better team
its the sixers fault for pushing him as a starter for all these years. its not his fault hes been in over his head, but im just sick of it. i will never like the guy.
[Biggie]The Phillies declined Pedro Feliz's 2010 option per Scott Lauber[/Biggie]
So the question is, are the Phillies getting better at third, or just cheaper?
I dont think its possible to get worse, even if you go cheaper..
Nice. Feliz was a good dude, but he's done. Via con dios, senor
Tu hablas espanol? Cuantos anos estudias tu?
Get Figgins.
Quote from: phillymic2000 on November 08, 2009, 07:17:17 PM
I dont think its possible to get worse, even if you go cheaper..
Considering the number of free agent 3rd basemen in their mid-to-late 30s who are coming off injuries, getting better is not automatic. We'll see what Amaro does with it.
Amaro better not farg this one up. Other than Figgens who else is out there?
Adrian Beltre
Mark DeRosa
Troy Glaus
Miguel Tejada (if you move him from SS)
Dan Uggla, apparently.
you stay classy, ny (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4632491)
Beltre
Figgins aint happening
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 08, 2009, 09:07:36 PM
you stay classy, ny (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4632491)
Perfect cover for Madoff's associates (i.e. the Mets) to dump some paperwork.
Quote from: MDS on November 08, 2009, 09:20:27 PM
Beltre
Figgins aint happening
Beltre is a roid head...no thanks.
Figgins all the way.
by the way, i wish i worked for Madoff, that North Pole sounds like a nice place
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 08, 2009, 10:07:01 PM
Quote from: MDS on November 08, 2009, 09:20:27 PM
Beltre
Figgins aint happening
Beltre is a roid head...no thanks.
Figgins all the way.
Yea it wasn't an endorsement. More of a realistic hope. Figgins isn't coming here. Considering the money they'll have to spend it's not even really feasible.
Beltre is better defensively than Feliz and much better offensively and is 6 (?) years younger.
Seems like a slam dunk to me. He could put up an .850 ish OPS if Safeco really did kill him, but I don't think a .800 OPS out of him with excellent defense is unrealistic.
Seriously though this guy is ridiculous with the glove.
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 08, 2009, 08:32:34 PM
Dan Uggla, apparently.
Hated him. But I'll take him. Guy plays angry
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 08, 2009, 10:28:51 PM
Beltre is better defensively than Feliz and much better offensively and is 6 (?) years younger.
Under 4 years younger.
449 AB, 119 hits, 27 doubles, 0 triples, 8 HR, 44 RBI, 13 stolen bases, 19 walks, .265 BA
580 AB, 154 hits, 30 doubles, 2 triples, 12 HR, 82 RBI, 12 stolen bases, 35 walks, .266 BA
One of these is Beltre in 2009, one is Feliz.
Beltre had a real bad year, but he was hurt all year and then had a testicle torn off in a game in August to top it all off.
I think he'll rebound nicely.
QuoteConsistent greatness is Chase Utley's calling card. His wOBAs from 2005 through 2009 have all been inside the range of .389 to .420. His UZRs during that stretch vary only from +9.8 to +20.5. In the last five seasons, Chase Utley's worst season, 2006, had him as a 6.8 WAR player. His best, 2008, he was an 8.1 WAR player.
For five seasons Chase Utley (38 total wins) has been just a smidgen less valuable than Albert Pujols (40.4 total wins) has been. Thank goodness that he is losing his mind in this World Series because hopefully now he'll start getting more credit. He's been close to the best player in baseball over the last half-decade and how many people would have included him in the top ten?
Utley's 54.8 runs above average came in nearly equal portions each season. His 17.6 runs was 11th best in 2007, his 22.8 runs was the overall best in 2008 and his 14.4 runs was 18th best this past year.
By the way, with the pretty big caveat that the 2009 awards have yet to be announced, I find it worth pointing out that none of the top five players for the period of 2007-9 have won a Gold Glove in that period. Hopefully the 2009 slate rectifies that
beltre isnt a great option, but the most realistic.
youre basically taking a slightly better version of feliz but 6 years younger
Quote from: MDS on November 09, 2009, 01:51:10 AM
beltre isnt a great option, but the most realistic.
youre basically taking a slightly better version of feliz but 6 years younger
Sold
Figgins would be solid. A guy that hits for average that can make some noise on the base pads. This team has enough power 3-5 (maybe 6 depending if Ibanez shows the same pop as last year). What they need is someone to help this team hit for average and not try to mash every ball out of the park.
Probably too expensive though.
5/50 rumored asking price for chone
the phils already have 109 committed, including a combined 2.2 mil to feliz, eaton and jenkins.
that leaves them with about 20 to play with. and here are the arbitration cases:
Blanton (5.4 in 09)
Vic (3.1)
Ruiz (475k)
Francisco (420k)
Happ (425k)
Durbin (1.6)
Figure 7.5 for Blanton, 7 for Vic, 2 for Ruiz, 2 for Happ and 2 for Durbin. Those are broad estimations. That's about 20 right there. Maybe it goes a little less, but that $ will go to the bench.
So basically the payroll will be about 130+ whatever it takes to sign a 3B. The question is does management spend 5 mil extra (Beltre, Polanco, DeRosa, etc.) or 10 (Figgins). I'd go with 5.
Quote from: MDS on November 10, 2009, 12:00:21 PM
the phils already have 109 committed, including a combined 2.2 mil to feliz, eaton and jenkins.
Eaton, he just won't go away. Jenkins key hit in WS, Feliz winning hit in game 5 of 08 WS = lifetime pass.
jenkins yes, feliz no. after his performance this year we're even.
btw, i would farging love for placido to come back to philly and play 3rd but i doubt he be willing to.
they aren't paying eaton, feliz or jenkins this upcoming year
500k to eaton and feliz, 1.2 to geoff
the first 2 are buyouts, not sure about jenkins im pretty thats what it is.
so not the roste but the $ is factored in.
Quote from: Eaglez on November 10, 2009, 11:33:52 AM
Figgins would be solid. A guy that hits for average that can make some noise on the base pads. This team has enough power 3-5 (maybe 6 depending if Ibanez shows the same pop as last year). What they need is someone to help this team hit for average and not try to mash every ball out of the park.
Probably too expensive though.
Take a look at Figgins' stats for the post-season. They have been atrocious since 2004, and there is good reason that the Angels dont want to keep him
that's the one big knock on figgens is that he comes up small in the playoffs. but you don't shy away from a player because of his performance during a 3 week period in october. you sign a player that you think will make daily contributions to your team and help get you to october. at that point, it's all a crap shoot. who gets hot, who goes cold. more often than not, that's what gets a team to the ws and ultimately wins it.
so to ignore any player's stats for 162 games and focus on 7 or 8 games in october is probably one of the dumbest things a gm could do.
They're clearing salary to get Halladay.
Book it.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 10, 2009, 02:56:32 PM
that's the one big knock on figgens is that he comes up small in the playoffs. but you don't shy away from a player because of his performance during a 3 week period in october. you sign a player that you think will make daily contributions to your team and help get you to october. at that point, it's all a crap shoot. who gets hot, who goes cold. more often than not, that's what gets a team to the ws and ultimately wins it.
so to ignore any player's stats for 162 games and focus on 7 or 8 games in october is probably one of the dumbest things a gm could do.
^^^
exactly
a-rod and GRIT say (http://chat2.globalpinoy.com/images/emoticons/wave.gif)
Feliz too.
I liked Conlin's shout out to him. He had a few prolonged slumps...but his defense and the fact he drove in 82 runs was pretty good.
I bet they bring him back at a cheaper price.
Adrian Beltre sucks.
Amaro shot down the Hamels-for-Halladay rumors, in case anyone was considering it...
QuotePhillies equipped for another title run
By: MIKE SIELSKI Burlington County Times
The man in the red Phillies cap and the red Phillies windbreaker moved like a mist through the visiting clubhouse at Yankee Stadium, for that is how John Middleton generally does things. He is a limited partner in the Phillies' ownership group, a cigar magnate who doesn't often speak to the press, allowing David Montgomery to serve as the group's spokesman. It should be impossible to be an invisible billionaire, but Middleton comes close.
Game 6 of the World Series had ended less than an hour earlier. The five boroughs were still celebrating the Yankees' six-game victory over the Phillies. In the wee small hours of Thursday morning, Frank Sinatra was still singing at Yankee Stadium, and John Middleton was going from player to player in the Phillies' clubhouse, shaking their hands, thanking them, spending a few seconds with each of them, until he came to Ryan Howard's locker.
Howard was seated and, having showered and changed, was slipping on a pair of white sneakers. He had carried the Phillies through the first two rounds of the playoffs only to hit .174 with a record 13 strikeouts in the World Series, and now Middleton crouched down in front of him and spoke to him in a half-whisper for a while. Middleton was supportive and encouraging and grateful to Howard for the way he performed this season, and he delivered even his most striking two sentences with that supportive, encouraging, grateful tone.
"I want my (bleeping) trophy back," Middleton said to Howard, gripping Howard's left shoulder with his right hand. "It's (bleeping) ours."
There might be no other scene that could better sum up how radically the perception and the reality of the Phillies have changed over the last three years. As recently as the beginning of the 2006 season, this was an unlikable franchise. The players shrunk at important moments. The new ballpark, though pretty, was embarrassingly small; what better-than-average pitcher would willingly agree to pitch there? And the ownership seemed to regard winning as a secondary consideration to turning profit and remaining, for the most part, anonymous.
The atmosphere at Citizens Bank Park, the players, the results, the expectations - yes, all of it is different now. And there's no reason it shouldn't remain different. There's a culture of winning here, a mindset that apparently has crept up to the owners' suites. It was created once the Phillies turned their clubhouse over talented players who had come up through their minor-league system, players who had a stake in the Phils' success: Howard, Chase Utley, Jimmy Rollins.
For example, consider the 2009 Yankees. They were no mere "hot team at the right time." They were better than the Phillies. They were the best team in baseball, and it wasn't close. From the time Alex Rodriguez returned from the disabled list on May 8 to the start of their celebration after their 7-3 win over the Phils in Game 6, the Yankees went 101-48. Yet their core is older than the Phillies'. Rodriguez is 34. Derek Jeter is 35. Johnny Damon is 36. Andy Pettitte is 37. Jorge Posada is 38. Mariano Rivera is 39.
So the notion that the Phillies can't win another World Series as Howard (29), Utley (30), Rollins (30), Jayson Werth (30), Shane Victorino (28) and Cliff Lee (32) advance into and through their 30s is mostly bunk. They can keep taking runs at titles for the next several years, provided that they acquire and/or develop the right pitchers and supplementary players. Though they're hardly poor, the Phillies don't necessarily have the financial resources to hand CC Sabathia a $161 million contract, but they have become an attractive destination for free agents, and they can mine their minor-league system for young, useful talent, just as the Yankees did with Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain.
Despite the mid-summer sentiment that the Phillies should have been willing to surrender any and all of their best prospects to Toronto for Roy Halladay, the makeup of the Yankees' roster should confirm that Ruben Amaro's acquisition of Lee was always the smarter way to go. Around that great veteran nucleus, New York has a 26-year-old second baseman (Robinson Cano), a 24-year-old center fielder (Melky Cabrera), and two rising right-handed arms (Hughes and Chamberlain) - neither of whom has turned 24 yet. Because Amaro didn't have to give up any of the organization's leading lights - Kyle Drabek, Domonic Brown, Michael Taylor - to acquire Lee, the Phillies presumably can replenish their roster in a similar manner.
Are those prospects still uncertain commodities? Of course. All prospects are. And there are some uncertainties remaining on the roster. The bench must be improved. Brad Lidge has to fix himself. So does Cole Hamels. (If the Phillies are unsure about Hamels, might they not be smart in gauging Toronto's interest in him + in exchange for Halladay? Just a thought.)
But understand: The Phillies aren't fading away anytime soon. As that once-silent partner said, it's their bleeping trophy, and they want it back.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 10, 2009, 10:23:13 PM
Amaro shot down the Hamels-for-Halladay rumors, in case anyone was considering it...
and we pray x 1 zillion
latest rumor is they're discussing Tigers closer Fernando Rodney
i have a feeling they're going to go after derosa at 3b. just had surgery so he'll be a little cheaper and he's a philly guy. they won't break the bank for anything other than pitching this year.
id be fine with derosa as a top bench guy but no way should he be a full time 3rd basemen
yea 07 and 08 were his tops for games played at 149, and hes coming off another injury plagued year
production wise hes still pretty good, but as a bench guy, he cant play ss. the bench would be derosa, dobbs, francisco, catcher, ? that last spot needs to go to a power bat, not a guy who can specifically play short.
hes just not a good fit unless the 3B you sign can also play short, which limits things down to tejada who sucks.
isn't pudge a FA right now? does he have anything left? i'd guess he's still better than bako.
washed. up.
backup catcher is a pointless position. bako is fine. they play once every 6 days and bat 8th. it really wont make much of a difference who they sign.
Espn insider saying Lowell a possibility.
lowell would be farging awesome. like 8 years ago.
god jimmy with another gold glove
also victorino win his second
Just saw that. JRoll and Vic. Utley? Bummer.
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 11, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
id be fine with derosa as a top bench guy but no way should he be a full time 3rd basemen
Yes and yes.
He's 35, coming off wrist surgery. He'd be a great bench guy because he can play all INF spots and some OF too. Sign him to start? No. I'd rather have Pete Happy back.
Jon Heyman is reporting from the GM meetings FWIW:
Quote
CHICAGO -- Beyond the "Big Three" free agents (Matt Holliday, John Lackey and Jason Bay), there's still some decent action going on here at the GM meetings. And if there's a fourth coveted free agent, it just might be versatile leadoff man Chone Figgins, who is drawing interest from some unexpected sources.
The two-time defending National League champion Phillies are said to be intent on pursuing Figgins hard as a potential replacement for Pedro Feliz, whose $5.5 million option was declined. Agents were jolted that a seemingly reasonable option such as that was rejected ("That's what we've come to? Pedro Feliz is a $4 million player?" asked one incredulously). But the reality is that the Phillies just want to do something different there, and Figgins, who remade himself into a .400 on-base percentage player, would represent an opposite approach.
One AL executive said the Phillies like the idea of putting Figgins at the top of their lineup with Jimmy Rollins and Shane Victorino, in effect giving them three leadoff hitters before their big boppers -- though, they could also move down Victorino, as well.
Mets general manager Omar Minaya, who seems to have his hand in everything here as the Mets try to remake themselves, met late last night in the lobby of the Hilton Chicago O'Hare Airport with Figgins' agent, Seth Levinson. The Mets are obviously set at third base with David Wright, but Minaya said he envisions Figgins as a player who could fill multiple roles for them (possibly outfield or second base). Though Minaya continually tells people that their main goal is "to find someone to slug" and he also met with agent Scott Boras Tuesday night to discuss Holliday.
Angels GM Tony Reagins said they have been in talks for two months to try to keep Figgins as their third baseman and Reagins is "hopeful'' that something can get done, but the competition appears significant, especially from the Phillies. While Phillies GM Ruben Amaro doesn't absolutely rule out a return for Feliz at a lesser price, and Mark DeRosa, Placido Polanco and Adrian Beltre are among other third-base options, Amaro said, "That was the only spot where we felt we could make a change and do something different. Obviously, Chone is an outstanding athlete and you have to assume he has a lot of suitors. But we're keeping our eyes and ears open."
Should the Phillies sign Figgins -- who shocked folks by leading the AL with 101 walks this past season and is a much better on-base guy now than not only the free-swinging Feliz but longtime leadoff man Rollins, too -- the best lineup in the National League would become that much better.
figgins has absolutely got to be the main focal point for the phils. yeah, they need bullpen and starter help, but figgins fills 2 voids....offensive production from 3B and the leadoff spot in the lineup.
if they do get him, no one is going to benefit from it more than jimmy rollins.
Neyer
QuoteRollins is a legacy pick, and so is Orlando Hudson, who won in 2006 and '07 and probably would have won last year if he hadn't spent a couple of months on the DL. Instead, the voters went with Brandon Phillips last season, and while he wasn't my first choice -- Chase Utley was -- Phillips was certainly defensible. This year, the voters returned to Hudson, once again spurning Utley, who still doesn't have a Gold Glove despite being arguably the league's top defensive second baseman for five seasons running. And not over the last five seasons; I mean in each of the last five seasons.
Who cares, right? Well, someday Utley's going to be on a Hall of Fame ballot, and at least a few voters will say, "Gosh, I love the guy's hitting stats, but why didn't he win any Gold Gloves?"
The answer isn't that Utley wasn't a great fielder; the answer is that the Gold Glove voters just weren't paying attention.
some players do recieve awards and all star votes based on passed accomplishments rather than present performance. it also works the other way too. utley was not that strong in the field his first year or 2 and botched some fairly routine plays. i remember going to a phils game in st louis in 07 when utley had a couple of errors in the 9th inning/extra innings that led to the tying and gw runs coming home.
utley's a freaking stud right now, but the early perception of him was that he sucked in the field so it will take maybe another outstanding year or 2 before voters realize where he really ranks among the game's other 2nd basemen.
utley like howard has improved greatly in the field but that makes them both average...or maybe with utleys GRIT included slighty above for him
LOL at Marcus Hayes talking about how great a signing Lowell would be.
I forgot how much I despise that guy.
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 11, 2009, 05:43:14 PM
utley like howard has improved greatly in the field but that makes them both average...or maybe with utleys GRIT included slighty above for him
i think utley is a legit top 3 2nd basemen in the field. he makes the routine plays now and makes a lot of difficult plays look routine. except when he's trying to flip the ball to 2nd from his glove.
agree about howard though.
He hasn't even improved that much. He's always been good.
Playing 3rd in the minors for that year really killed his defensive reputation.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 11, 2009, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 11, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
id be fine with derosa as a top bench guy but no way should he be a full time 3rd basemen
Yes and yes.
He's 35, coming off wrist surgery. He'd be a great bench guy because he can play all INF spots and some OF too. Sign him to start? No. I'd rather have Pete Happy back.
jason, jason, jason
where to begin....where to begin....
So you would be happy with Mark DeRosa as your starting 3B?
LOL at he Rollins is a legacy pick. That little Billy Beane queef, Keith Law (jihadist monk probably likes him) ripped the Rollins and Vic GG's too. He was using that stupid UZR crap.
Chone Figgins is #1 on my list.
Keith Law is a douchebag.
Keith Law sensationalizes to get noticed and it works. He's a douche.
But even he recognizes the awesomeness that is Chase Utley (thinks he is #2 behind Pujols) so I'm cool with him.
Quote from: MDS on November 11, 2009, 06:44:10 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 11, 2009, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 11, 2009, 12:14:39 PM
id be fine with derosa as a top bench guy but no way should he be a full time 3rd basemen
Yes and yes.
He's 35, coming off wrist surgery. He'd be a great bench guy because he can play all INF spots and some OF too. Sign him to start? No. I'd rather have Pete Happy back.
jason, jason, jason
where to begin....where to begin....
id easily rather have feliz back at 3rd than derosa
didn't see anything showing the 2010 free agents (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html). there's a few guys on there that i didn't even know where still in the league.
3rd base is the priority....until figgins is off the market. should he re-sign with the angels or sing elsewhere, then i think you need to focus on either a #3 starter or getting a top tier bullpen arm. also, if they phils don't land figgins, what about going after jack wilson and moving him to 3rd? he has an 8mil option and a 600k buyout.
the only current phillie free agent that i think needs immediate attention is chan ho park.
also noticed that micheal bourne won a gold glove this year. wasn't he one of wade's draft picks? there's quite a few former phils that came up through the farm that are out there playing fairly well and putting together at least half decent careers.
they are gonna get a bottom of the rotation starter. lee, hamels, happ, blanton is good. someone about as good as blanton is what you can expect.
i'm looking at happ as a bottom of the rotation starter. mostly because he's young and poodied himself in the playoffs but also because i don't think the phils want to have all lefties 1 2 and 3 in the rotation. and blanton's not a #3 starter imo. he's right where he needs to be.
i notice that john garland is only 30. i thought he was a few years older than that.
order of starters doesnt really matter until the playoffs. all you want to do is give lee and hamels the most amount of starts as possible, everyone is secondary.
and happ should be fine. i know some think there might be a little kendrick in him but he just got better as the year went on. what he is not a relief pitcher, not a situational guy. hes a nibbler. hes not over powering. bringing him in for a batter or two is silly, but considering what the bullpen was manuel didnt have a choice. and it really didnt end up mattering. they didnt lose because of him or any decision related to him.
moyer is done, pedro is done, drabek might be ready but you cant count on it. 5th starter is really not a big deal. they can even sign no one and scrap their way until july if no one internally can do the job. then you give up a random mid level prospect for an average kyle lohse/joe blanton type to get you by.
i don't think happ is anything like kendrick and i do think he'll continue to get better, was just thinking that putting him at the bottom gives him the best opportunity to pitch against other bottom of the rotation guys. of course, that would only hold true for maybe a month or so. but yeah, my thinking is flawed though with where happ would be in the rotation because even putting him in the 5th spot, then you're still running lefties out there 3 games in a row except now it's happ, lee, hamels. so yeah, until playoff time, that shtein really don't matter.
as far as moyer goes, if his body is healthy, i'd actually be ok with starting the year with him as the 5th starter also, but keeping him on a relatively short leash. or at least run with him until july when they can trade for someone better as you said. of course, i think you only put moyer back in the rotation if there's absolutely nothing better available.
Rockies, for some reason, declined the option on Betancourt.
Get.
hes about the same as ho chi. random somewhat decent middle reliever that probably wont be awful.
the phils could use a lot of won't be awful in the bullpen.
Bruntlett released.
Happ does not win ROY
i think tommy hanson should have won it but thats neither here nor there...however can someone in any way explain to me how happ got almost triple the votes of hanson
his team had more national attention
his team wasn't 7 games out for most of the season
he was used out of the bullpen while Hanson wasn't
he had a few complete games, including 2 shutouts, while Hanson had none
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 16, 2009, 04:48:35 PM
his team had more national attention
his team wasn't 7 games out for most of the season
he was used out of the bullpen while Hanson wasn't
he had a few complete games, including 2 shutouts, while Hanson had none
so how did coghlan win it then?
the last point is the only one that is relevant and still doesnt come close to overcoming the other numbers
stop whining nothing can be more irrelevant than some random marlin winning rookie of the year
Mister Nibbles shouldn't have won it. Coghlan, although he annoys me, tore it up and deserved it.
Coghlan was like 27 for 57 against the Phils, he could hit lefties just as good as righties despite being a lefty hitter, he could hit for power or average, he had speed and he had defense....plus the Marlins were better than the Braves for most of the season
he had a fine year...im not arguing against him winning it...just laughing at the first three reasons you gave when a guy who fit all three to a tee won the award
you asked why Happ had more votes than Hanson
Happ has better sideburns.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 16, 2009, 05:18:26 PM
you asked why Happ had more votes than Hanson
that would be three times more votes
and im still waiting for a legit answer
baseball is the one sport where the voters are complete nerds for the sport and scour over stats before ethey make their vote...stuff like what you mentioned doesnt really happen...i mean mvp awards have gone to last place players
your an idiot if you think the people voting for these awards are stat guys.
Jimmy Rollins won an MVP award. Jimmy Rollins.
Chase Utley who is unanimously considered the best defensive second baseman in baseball in the stat world has not won a gold glove.
It's a bunch of writers like farging Bill Conlin and whats his face that big fat weird looking guy with the glasses thats always on DNL.
Look at Beane Junior standing up for his boys, the stat geeks!
mikey cheerypicks conversations to throw in newly read baseball prospectus data. hes not very smart. community college, etc.
Quote from: jihadist monk on November 16, 2009, 09:10:13 PM
your an idiot if you think the people voting for these awards are stat guys.
Jimmy Rollins won an MVP award. Jimmy Rollins.
Chase Utley who is unanimously considered the best defensive second baseman in baseball in the stat world has not won a gold glove.
It's a bunch of writers like farging Bill Conlin and whats his face that big fat weird looking guy with the glasses thats always on DNL.
you dont have to be a stat guy per se...what im saying is baseball voters more than any others comb over the stats of the prospective award candidates...which is what makes happ blowing away hanson so puzzling...it usually never happens in baseball
conlin is huge numbers guy and a genius...if you were 1% as smart as him you wouldnt be a dope anymore
oh and jimmys numbers were nasty the year he mvp'ed your ass
arguably the GOAT philly athlete son...recognize
No they weren't. The way they lined up sounded nice, but he wasn't even the best player on his own team.
he was the best player in the majors so unless the phillies played in AAA that year im pretty sure he was the best player on the team
lol he has never even been close to the best player on his own team.
not in VORP
not in any logical measuring stick of a baseball player
the GRIT stick?
why are you even debating someone as stupid as mikey, mikey?
i dont know.
check out pimp ass jimmy
(http://enrico.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451af4b69e20120a6a94c09970b-800wi)
What exactly makes him pimp in that picture?
The fact that he is black and therefore inherently pimp?
pimp be like porn...you cant define what it is but you know it when you see it
donovan mcnabb = not pimp
jimmy = pimp
ryan howard = pimp
brian dawkins = not pimp
in what world can you not define porn
ha
Was JRoll the only Phil at his wedding? Didn't see one thing on this in the local press. I know that farging clown from Jon and Kate was there.
pimp Choke Dawg was there too (http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/14/jon-gosselin-ryan-howard-shane-victorino-wedding-hawaii-philadelphia-phillies/)
some more pics (http://view.picapp.com/default.aspx?term=wedding&iid=7050854)
and Dutch Daulton has a website now: http://www.dutch2012.com
Shaney's bride has some righteous funbags.
Hit.
Yes indeed.
more pics of her (http://www.contactmusic.com/pictures/melissa_smith/1-1)
doesnt even look like the same person....she definitely tried to look like a native at the wedding cause she looks so asian
a lot of hawaiians and polynesians are of asian descent, dook.
yeah and?
DeRosa is looking more like a possibility. Sucks that a team that goes to two straight World Series and wins one still doesn't feel confident enough in their finances to make an "upgrade" at the position. I think DeRosa is a fine player and he can play 3B and both outfield corners, but is he any better than Feliz is at this point in both players' careers?
hes def worse than feliz...feliz is a legit starting ML 3rd baseman
derosa is a great utility player
I'll bet anyone here 10 thousand dollars that the Phillies will sign someone to play third. Probably a baseball player too.
Quote from: Rome on November 18, 2009, 08:18:25 AM
a lot of hawaiians and polynesians are of asian descent, dook.
and white descent too
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 18, 2009, 06:22:05 AM
doesnt even look like the same person....she definitely tried to look like a native at the wedding cause she looks so asian
just like daddy likes it, asian persuasion.
it actually is a different person. there are two Melisa Smiths. Vic's wife is more polynesian looking.
ha
Phillies offseason article (http://www.buckslocalnews.com/articles/2009/11/18/bucks_sports/doc4b04762cba11c542595472.txt)
QuoteGeneral Manager Ruben Amaro could make a flurry of one-year signings, designed to win in 2010, or he could make one or two big moves designed to start a new core group, which would eventually include Domonic (*NFP: DOMONIC IS SPELLED RIGHT, HE'S JUST AN IDIOT*) Brown, Michael Taylor and Kyle Drabek, who are all tearing up the minors.
Looks like the Phils are close to signing 37-yr old .230 hitter Juan Castro as Bruntlett's replacement
(http://18.media.tumblr.com/fMUgAcsK5n2c31syfGRClEXMo1_500.jpg)
yea...really
and choke dawg finished 3rd in the MVP voting behind Pujols and Hanley Ramirez. Utley finished 8th, Werth 17th and Victorino 18th...
now it's apparently a done deal...1 year + team option for 2011, might be announced next week
great
more beaners for ruben.
so its eric bruntlett, but older and mexican?
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 24, 2009, 02:42:38 PM
Looks like the Phils are close to signing 37-yr old .230 hitter Juan Castro as Bruntlett's replacement
(http://18.media.tumblr.com/fMUgAcsK5n2c31syfGRClEXMo1_500.jpg)
yea...really
and choke dawg finished 3rd in the MVP voting behind Pujols and Hanley Ramirez. Utley finished 8th, Werth 17th and Victorino 18th...
Wow.
Did they have to outbid the Mets to get him?
less than $1M, so it's basically like signing Cairo and inviting him to camp
I'm gonna miss Chewbacca.
Moyer was hospitalized due to recurring symptoms from the groin surgery he had 2 months ago
and the Phils signed DeWayne Wise, the CF that saved Mark Buehrle's perfect game back in July
minor league deal ed. FACTS.
QuoteWise won't generate much excitement at the plate - he was a .225 hitter last season and has a career .216 average - but he plays all three outfield positions, and plays them well. He could pair with Ben Francisco to give Charlie Manuel some serious flexibility in the outfield.
Not only is Wise good with the glove, he also gives the Phillies another strong and accurate outfield arm. He had six outfield assists in 70 starts in the outfield in 2009. The Phillies' big outfield guns, Jason Werth and Shane Victorino, had 11 and eight, respectively, but started more than twice as many games as Wise.
i don't mind wise that much as a late inning guy but i'm not quite sure about his role with fransisco on the bench too. he's probably a defensive upgrade over fransisco but even worse at the plate.
this team needs a couple guys on the bench who can swing the bat.
Quote from: Don Ho on November 27, 2009, 08:55:10 PM
QuoteWise won't generate much excitement at the plate - he was a .225 hitter last season and has a career .216 average - but he plays all three outfield positions, and plays them well. He could pair with Ben Francisco to give Charlie Manuel some serious flexibility in the outfield.
Not only is Wise good with the glove, he also gives the Phillies another strong and accurate outfield arm. He had six outfield assists in 70 starts in the outfield in 2009. The Phillies' big outfield guns, Jason Werth and Shane Victorino, had 11 and eight, respectively, but started more than twice as many games as Wise.
its better than Bruntlett last year
today's arbitration deadline day. Sounds like Park will be offered and Eyre won't (so they can bring him back at a lower price)...
brian schneider = back up catcher
2 years
hes from allentown
fine deal. about what youd expect.
he was always a phillie killer
Schneider is an upgrade over Bako, so I like it. Not earth-shattering but at least it's an upgrade to the bench.
better get a back up to the back up
schnieder will be on the DL by may day
so predictable.
IGY, not the Phillies.
The Phillies get Schneider and the Mets get Chris Coste.
lollerz...
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 01, 2009, 12:09:55 PM
today's arbitration deadline day. Sounds like Park will be offered and Eyre won't (so they can bring him back at a lower price)...
Neither offered arbitration.
I don't understand not offering it to Ho Chi Minh....
yea that makes no sense unless the financial situation is worse than expected.
rube could just be retarded. he seems to have a real fear of arbitration its kind of mind boggling.
posted it in the other baseball thread but the angels offered chone figgens arbitration.
Read somewhere that Rube prefers the financial flexibility over the draft picks that offering arbitration could bring in, but he's still open to signing both pitchers.
Basically he's a moron. Christ.
if only you were a gm....
I just don't understand how Rube can be so stupid at something that Gillick excelled at and Wade was competent at.
The logic he used here is mind boggling. Not offering Eyre makes sense, but Chan Ho would get 3.5 in arb tops and he won't accept it because he is crazy and still thinks he can start, there is no downside.
Billy Wagner just signed for $7M with the Braves. How is Park only going to get half of that in arbitration?
Polanco wasn't offered arbitration from the Tigers. This should open the door for the Phils to try and bring him back. He may not have the range of Feliz but I like his bat much better. He's the contact hitter this team needs for a price most likely much lower than Figgins.
Quote from: Rome on December 02, 2009, 03:48:42 PM
Billy Wagner just signed for $7M with the Braves. How is Park only going to get half of that in arbitration?
Because relief pitchers who signed for 2 million a year before as a free agent and only had a good year generally don't get their salary doubled, believe it or not.
Quote from: Eaglez on December 02, 2009, 03:53:39 PM
Polanco wasn't offered arbitration from the Tigers. This should open the door for the Phils to try and bring him back. He may not have the range of Feliz but I like his bat much better. He's the contact hitter this team needs for a price most likely much lower than Figgins.
Polanco vs Feliz is like having someone rusty hook you as oppose to poop down your throat. Ideally you don't have either of them.
Also I'm starting to get annoyed how Amaro prefaces every sentence with "I don't have an unlimited budget." No shtein but you also don't get a group of guys who can compete for a title for probably 2-3 more years. I just hope the stinginess doesn't come back to bite them.
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 02, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
Quote from: Eaglez on December 02, 2009, 03:53:39 PM
Polanco wasn't offered arbitration from the Tigers. This should open the door for the Phils to try and bring him back. He may not have the range of Feliz but I like his bat much better. He's the contact hitter this team needs for a price most likely much lower than Figgins.
Polanco vs Feliz is like having someone rusty hook you as oppose to poop down your throat. Ideally you don't have either of them.
Maybe. But I'd much rather have a bat in there that can make consistent contact, move runners, and get on base. This team has enough guys that swing for the fences. He would at least bring some balance to the lineup when it is obvious Ruben isn't going to spring for someone who is going to be a large financial commitment when they have so much invested in the other three infield spots.
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 02, 2009, 03:57:31 PM
Quote from: Rome on December 02, 2009, 03:48:42 PM
Billy Wagner just signed for $7M with the Braves. How is Park only going to get half of that in arbitration?
Because relief pitchers who signed for 2 million a year before as a free agent and only had a good year generally don't get their salary doubled, believe it or not.
Park signed for less with the Phillies because they guaranteed him a chance to start. Therefore the money he signed for last year is irrelevant to what he'd command in this market, especially considering how great he was as a set-up man.
Again, Wagner pitched in 13 games yet commanded 7 million dollars.
Expecting Park to sign for peanuts is stupid even for you.
They should have offered him arbitration.
And now they shouldn't let him leave....keep him. The key is to strengthen the bullpen, not weaken it. ANd Ho Chi leaving weakens it.
Whats your thoughts about bringing Peanut Head back? I loved him when he was here.
I want Ho Chi Minh back. I'd be fine with Polanco although I doubt he wants to play third again.
QuoteThe most shocking call on the day teams had to decide whether to offer their free agents arbitration had to be the Dodgers not offering it to steady starter Randy Wolf (11-7, 1.10 WHIP). That could be an indication where L.A. finances stand. Anyone who thought they'd get into the Halladay talks must have been dreaming. This could enhance Wolf's value, though. The Mets, Brewers and Phillies are among teams believed to have some interest.
QuoteBrian Schneider (.218) was more popular as a free agent than one might imagine. The Royals were trying hard for him before the Phillies swooped in with a two-year deal.
Tough choice for schneider
lol @ the dodgers not being able to afford randy wolf. this is going to be the worst off season for them in quite some time. manny's got his 20mil option that i don't know if he formally excersized it yet, but after last season there's no way he doesn't as no team out there will pay him more than that.
and with ownership going through a divorce, all of frank mccourt's money is hidden somewhere because he reported last week that he "only" had 100+ grand in his personal checking account. presumably, he is trying to show that he doesn't have an ass load of money to avoid paying excessive spousal support so he's definitely not going to be writing large paychecks while his divorce is ongoing.
so basically, the phils biggest competition in the nl is treading water. of course, i'd feel better if they were doing something about it like offering arbitration to chan ho "citizen's bank" park or scott "the apple of my" eyre. but whatever.
Phils seemed to have settled on Polanco and are trying to work out a deal with him.
i won't really hate on that at all. loved him when he was here before and i'll take his .285 career avg over pete happy's .254 any day.
polanco also had a .997 fielding % last year compared to pedro's .966. obviously 3rd base is a much harder position to field but i can't say for certain that polanco will drop 3 full percentage points with the switch. and even if he does, that puts him even with feliz but still puts a better bat in the lineup.
would have preferred figgens because he would have fit in the lineup better being a true lead off guy, but this is still better than most other alternatives not named matt holiday.
whatever. better bat.. probably better glove? most likely for the same 5 mil.
resign the jap u stupid spick. you don't improve your bullpen by letting your best bullpen arm walk for nothing.
moyers contract isn't still guaranteed if he dies, right?
petes glove >>>>>>> polancos
i imagine at 3rd base polanco would be a mess
overall i guess id rather have polanco but barely
I wouldn't call him a mess; he's a pretty solid glove. He played third awhile after the Rolen trade.
But is he gonna flash the leather like Pete? No way.
Is he better than Mark DeRosa there? Yes. I'm happy they've decided to not go after him.
Polanco was fine at 3rd before and will be fine again. Good right hand bat. Also, get Randy Wolf because you know Moyer is going to drop his colostomy bag again at some point.
he was ok at best at third FOUR YEARS AGO
igy,
His glove isn't the issue, it's whether his arm can make the transition. He's always had a strong glove, that isn't going to change now that he's at 3rd. The question is whether his arm will hold up. For what it's worth, and it was 4 years ago, his fielding metrics back then when he played 3rd were strong.
His OPS has been significantly better than Feliz' the last 4 years. His career avg is .303 which is higher than Feliz' career OBP. I don't love Polanco but he should be better than Feliz as long as he's not a defensive disaster. Would have preferred Beltre though.
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 03, 2009, 10:04:21 AM
igy,
His glove isn't the issue, it's whether his arm can make the transition. He's always had a strong glove, that isn't going to change now that he's at 3rd. The question is whether his arm will hold up. For what it's worth, and it was 4 years ago, his fielding metrics back then when he played 3rd were strong.
His OPS has been significantly better than Feliz' the last 4 years. His career avg is .303 which is higher than Feliz' career OBP. I don't love Polanco but he should be better than Feliz as long as he's not a defensive disaster. Would have preferred Beltre though.
where did i say his glove was an issue and his arm wasnt
and where did i say he wasnt a better option than feliz much less a better offensive option
3 years, $18M
hate
he'll return to the #2 spot in the lineup and Shane will drop
Ewww
what an awful contract
the phillies better win the world series next year because 2011 and 2012 could be really ugly
2/12 would have been so much better than 3/18. He's not going to be anymore than a utility player by then making 6 mill.
Shut up and wait to see what happens. If it's a bad deal, who cares? It ain't your money anyway.
It matters if it prevents them from spending $ on someone 3 years from now because it's tied up in Polanco.
Regardless, he should be a marked improvement over Feliz at least offensively.
$6M on a payroll expected to be over $150M is nothing.
Look, I wanted Beltre but I have to believe he was asking for truly ridiculous money and years, so I'm fine with peanuthead.
And before anyone regails me with the benefits of Feliz's glove, let me remind you he was less than stellar last year. Whatever Polanco lacks with the leather he more than makes up with the bat, so shut it.
i doubt that a 6mil annual salary is going to break the bank with this team. as cheap as ownership was for years when it came to payroll, they seem to have enjoyed the taste of winning over the last 3 years and realized that if they spend a little more money up front and put a quality team on the field, that the fans will show up at the stadium in full force. i bet ticket sales and merchandise sales have been better over the last 3 years than they were for the previous 10 combined.
gotta spend money to make money. the phils get it. the eagles, not so much.
the seamheads are killing the move. shocker. pete happy is evidently a better offensive player than peanuthead because the stats say so! well, some of them do, anyway.
:-D
I don't think any stats show he's a better offensive player. It doesn't really depend on any specific metric, Polanco is better offensively across the board.
Their OPS+ the last 5 yrs:
Polanco's OPS+ since 2005:
120
80
121
101
88
Feliz OPS+ since 2005:
85
79
80
81
81
Feliz K's more, is worse on the basepaths, walks slightly less, and his career OBP is LOWER than Polanco's career AVG.
Polanco definitely has a better approach at the plate than Feliz as he relies on coming through the ball quickly and poking base hits. Prototypical player who tries to hit for average and if he drives one out then so be it. He still knocked 10 out of the park in a pretty cavernous Comerica Park so he should hit a bit better with the short porch in right with the Phils.
I'm only concerned that his arm is somewhat weak at 3rd. I think his glove with be the same, but it's just a matter of having a strong enough arm to get the close plays at 1st. I consider this an upgrade over Feliz. I didn't want Beltre because he's another guy that just tries to mash balls out of the park and has a high K to BB ratio. They already have 4 guys in the lineup that take that approach on most at-bats, they don't need more.
Also if they are thinking of hitting Polanco 2nd maybe they should move Jimmy down in the lineup and have Shane try and lead off. That way Jimmy doesn't have to resist the temptation to go hacking and gives him the opportunity to drive in more runs, which he still obviously has a desire to do. Plus Shane has shown himself to be a pretty good contact hitter and consistently hit for average last season, always staying around the .280-.300 mark. Couldn't hurt to at least try it out.
Quote from: Eaglez on December 03, 2009, 12:01:41 PM
Also if they are thinking of hitting Polanco 2nd maybe they should move Jimmy down in the lineup and have Shane try and lead off.
i would definitely do that....but even if you dont move jimmy down i want shane in the two hole over polanco...i love that one two speed punch at the top of the order and polanco doesnt get get on base more than shane and while he does strikeout less its not like shane is choke jr
Yeah the only problem is that you lose that speed at the very top. But at least this is a good problem to have.
Quote from: Eaglez on December 03, 2009, 12:01:41 PM
Also if they are thinking of hitting Polanco 2nd maybe they should move Jimmy down in the lineup and have Shane try and lead off. That way Jimmy doesn't have to resist the temptation to go hacking and gives him the opportunity to drive in more runs, which he still obviously has a desire to do. Plus Shane has shown himself to be a pretty good contact hitter and consistently hit for average last season, always staying around the .280-.300 mark. Couldn't hurt to at least try it out.
that's why figgens was my preference. rollins can hit, he just isn't a leadoff guy. drop him in the order and his numbers go up across the board.
I'd take Figgins over Polanco too but it was obvious the Phils feel they don't have the resources to go out and get him so I think this is probably the 2nd best option. 3 years 18 million with a mutual option for a 4th doesn't seem too bad. He's 34 but he doesn't hit for power so you should be able to project that he will hit in that .300 range for the duration of his contract as long as he can stay healthy, which he has been for most of his career. His approach doesn't concern me that he will just fall off a cliff like other 34 year old power hitters may.
Nothing ground-breaking but first impression to me has me think it's a pretty solid signing.
it will be interesting to see if figgins really gets what he wants...with the way the market is im actually suprised the phils didnt wait it out on polanco so that they dont get bitten as they did with the numbers they gave ibanez
Quote from: Rome on December 03, 2009, 10:56:12 AM
$6M on a payroll expected to be over $150M is nothing.
Look, I wanted Beltre but I have to believe he was asking for truly ridiculous money and years, so I'm fine with peanuthead.
And before anyone regails me with the benefits of Feliz's glove, let me remind you he was less than stellar last year. Whatever Polanco lacks with the leather he more than makes up with the bat, so shut it.
Agreed 100%. Feliz had some errors last year at key spots. 3 years 18 million in baseball=nothing
With revenues down for a majority of teams I don't think Figgins gets what he wants this off-season either. I heard he was looking for $34-36 million for 4 years (not sure if it was 3 with an option or 4 years). He'd probably have to knock off $10 million to get teams bidding for him but even so that gives the Phils a few million in savings to go after bullpen help, a potential 5th starter and a new bench.
Plus I heard the Red Sox were thinking about targeting Polanco and moving Pedroia to SS so they were probably trying to avoid a bidding war like they did last year when the Angels were seriously targeting Ibanez.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on December 03, 2009, 12:42:40 PM
Agreed 100%. Feliz had some errors last year at key spots. 3 years 18 million in baseball=nothing
When I first saw the $10-12M headline I thought it was a per year thing. $6M for an all-star is nothing even if he's going to be playing out of position.
And let's not forget that he can actually play second at the same level as True Grit, so that means more rest and hopefully more productivity at the end of the year for Chasey.
fine move
the reality of the situation is the win/lose the world series on the arms of lee and nicole and the bats of ace, choke and werth. everyone else is there to chip in.
Solid move. Like I mentioned before, I loved Polanco when he was here. He can play 3rd well, he's very good at 2nd if he has to give Grits a break (like Rome mentioned) and the money isn't terrible. His offense and ability to play small ball and pop one here and there is nice.
As far as the seamheads? Who gives a shtein. Those cultists are a joke. I get sick of hearing them cry about made up stats, algorithms and spreadsheets. farging clowns.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on December 02, 2009, 10:20:48 PM
lol @ the dodgers not being able to afford randy wolf. this is going to be the worst off season for them in quite some time. manny's got his 20mil option that i don't know if he formally excersized it yet, but after last season there's no way he doesn't as no team out there will pay him more than that.
and with ownership going through a divorce, all of frank mccourt's money is hidden somewhere because he reported last week that he "only" had 100+ grand in his personal checking account. presumably, he is trying to show that he doesn't have an ass load of money to avoid paying excessive spousal support so he's definitely not going to be writing large paychecks while his divorce is ongoing.
so basically, the phils biggest competition in the nl is treading water. of course, i'd feel better if they were doing something about it like offering arbitration to chan ho "citizen's bank" park or scott "the apple of my" eyre. but whatever.
Good call Sarge. Doyers are so farged. McCourt's, Manny, etc.
No problem with the Polanco signing. Loved him when he was here.
QuoteWhich player are you most happy to see return to Philadelphia?
Jeremiah Trotter
338 (12.6%)
Allen Iverson
737 (27.6%)
Brian Boucher
164 (6.1%)
Placido Polanco
1435 (53.7%)
Total votes = 2674
Inquirer poll on Philly.com.
Um, 53.7% for Polanco? I like the guy a lot....but more than AI?
I voted for Trotter. farg you all!
That's a strange poll. I think it demonstrates more that the Phils are starting to dominate the region in terms of popularity. It's getting close to be an evenly divided Eagles/Phillies area in terms of what team you care about more (even though the seasons barely overlap). It's amazing what winning a championship and getting back there can do.
baseball americas top farm systems
Top 5
1. Texas
2. Tampa Bay
3. San Francisco
4. Philadelphia
Philadelphia had the depth to trade for Cliff Lee and still have a top-flight farm system. Outfielder Michael Taylor has hit .333 over the last two seasons, rocketing to Triple-A, and fellow outfielder Dominic Brown has better tools, though he's still a bit raw. Righty Kyle Drabek, son of the former Cy Young Award winner Doug Drabek, has three above-average pitches to go with excellent athletic ability. Beyond their Big Three -- all of whom have performed at Double-A or above -- the Phillies are bursting with young power arms, toolsy Latin American infielders and athletic outfielders, such as Anthony Gose.
Not happy about Polanco. Its not enough an upgrade over Feliz to warrant 3/18.
Something about the sentence "toolsy latin american infielders" makes me giggle ever so slightly.
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 03, 2009, 04:54:16 PM
Not happy about Polanco. Its not enough an upgrade over Feliz to warrant 3/18.
Like I said... retarded farging seamhead douches hate it.
Good enough for me.
the money is such a non issue. but little mikey like to take his calculator and pretend hes amaro, so...i dont know, go add up some vorp you farging geek.
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 03, 2009, 04:54:16 PM
Not happy about Polanco. Its not enough an upgrade over Feliz to warrant 3/18.
I'm shocked you hate it. Shocked!
Good move.
I don't get how so many people are saying he isn't much better than Feliz offensively. I swear, they probably never saw Polanco play one inning and just looked up the stats and saw .266 vs .285 and decided he isn't much better. Polanco is a .300 hitter who had a bad first half of 2009 and hit something like .315 in the 2nd half. He is a much better bat than Feliz, and doesn't strike out.
I love Feliz for his glove and what he did for this team(namely the grand slams), but man he was the most frustrating player to watch. The grounders to 3rd and SS, the double plays, the strike outs low and away that he chased for pretty much the entire 2nd half of the season. He came up so frickin lame with 2 or more men out in the playoffs for a guy that was good all season with RISP, and Feliz is older than Polanco.
all of the first pitch swinging with men on base was enough for me. but yeah, all of that other crap you mentioned sucked too.
I'm starting to come around on the signing. While Rome is still an idiot for not understanding how arbitration works he's right in the grand scheme of things the money isn't that much, it just seems like it is right now because the Phillies are so up against their budget.
The last year of his contract is probably going to be brutal, but it seems a pretty safe bet Polanco should be an above average third baseman next year.
I have no faith in Rube going forward, but hopefully I'm wrong.
if money is not an issue then why will the last year be brutal?
QuoteOver the past couple of weeks, we've gotten some strong indications that the Phillies are hoping to land Tigers righthander Brandon Lyon, a versatile reliever who saved 26 games for the Diamondbacks in 2008 but also has the ability to pitch multiple innings.
Lyon is an interesting guy in that he compliments a 92-93 MPH fastball with three other pitches, most notably (and regularly) a curve ball. He also throws a slider/cutter and, occasionally, a change-up.
Lyon would seem to be a guy who can step into the role filled by Park last year. He pitched more than one inning in 24 of his 65 appearances last season, posting a 3.35 ERA and 1.095 WHIP while striking out 5.51 K/9 in those outings. But he has also pitched in the back end up of the bullpen, saving 14 games for Arizona in 2004 and 26 in 2008. In his outings that lasted one or fewer innings last season, he posted a 2.18 ERA and 1.12 WHIP while striking out 7.9 per nine innings.
Lyon isn't a ground-ball pitcher like teammate and fellow free agent Fernando Rodney, but his GB/FB rate ranked in the middle of the pack among MLB relievers.
A caveat? Lyon has spent the majority of his career pitching in two of the more pitcher-friendly parks in the majors in Chase Field and Comerica Park. But attempting to take home ballparks into consideration is always tricky.
Lyon will be 30 on Opening Day, so he is considerably younger than a lot of the other pitching options on the market. And with the Phillies likely not in a position to overpay for players like Mike Gonzalez and Fernando Rodney, Lyon could be a palatable option should the Phillies find themselves unable to reach an agreement with Park.
For what it's worth, a former teammate of Lyon's told me a couple weeks ago that the righthander would be a "perfect fit" in Philadelphia.
III. Other Options
Apart from Lyon, Rockies reliever Rafael Betancourt is another player whose skill set would jive with the Phillies, although a report out of Denver earlier this offseason that said Betancourt rejected a two-year, $8 million contract suggests he might be out of the Phillies price range.
After that, I'd look for them to try to add the type of low-risk (AKA cheap), high-reward type of player that RAJ talked about yesterday. One option could be John Smoltz, although I'd say the chances of him actually signing in Philly are slim and none. There are other relievers who are either coming off unhealthy or unimpressive (or both) seasons who might be willing to sign a low-base, incentive-laden contract. ESPN reported the other day that the Phillies have had some interest in former Mets righthander J.J. Putz, with whom Pat Gillick and Benny Looper are familiar from their ties to the Mariners organization. But again, I'd put the chances of that happening at slim and none for a variety of reasons: One, it doesn't make much sense for the Phillies to invest any substantial money in a base salary for a player whose velocity dropped last season and whose workload has decreased in each of the last three seasons. Two, it doesn't make much sense for Putz to take a chance on a team that plays in what pitchers believe to be a bandbox and that features two back-of-the-bullpen arms who will get first dibs on high-leverage situations. Remember, he'll be trying to play his way into a big contract next year, and there would seem to be better opportunities to do so than in Philadelphia.
A more likely option would seem to be finding the 2010 version of Kiko Kalero or Brendan Donnelly, two players who performed well for the Marlins last season while trying to prove themselves after injuries. One such player who could fit that mold this year is righthander Joaquin Benoit. Benoit, who will be 32 in 2010, missed all of 2009 after undergoing rotator cuff surgery in Junuary. He posted a 5.00 ERA and 1.667 WHIP while battling shoulder pain in 2008. But from 2005-07, Benoit posted a 3.80 ERA and 1.243 WHIP while striking out 9.0 batters per nine innings for the Rangers.
Another name to keep your eye on is Brad Penny, who the Phillies have had some interest in over the last couple of seasons and who could be a guy who could compete for the fifth spot in the rotation.
Then, of course, there are the relievers who are perceived to be over-the-hill but who might try to make one last attempt at hanging on. Included in this category are former Blue Jays closer B.J. Ryan and former Angel Justin Speier.
No way on Brandon Lyon.
pat the bat goes the mets
traitor
denied
Ross Gload signed....2-yr deal
lefty off the bench....was the top PH last year for the Marlins
from the looks of it he can play all 3 outfield positions.. and 1b. he hit .260 last year and doesn't seem to strike out too much. super. bowl.
career avg vs mets marlins and braves = .184 - not good
clutch hitting = .300 - good
career era = 0.00 - good
age 34 - bad
avg vs lefties = .298 - good
ross doesn't like to gload about his past accomplishments.
and he dresses for less
now you're getting it.
UPDATE
2010:
C- Ruiz
1B- Choke
2B- Uts
SS- Young James
3B- Placido Domingo
LF- Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul
CF- Hacktorino
RF- Werth
Bench- Dobbs
Bench- Francisco
Bench- Gload
Bench- Old Man Castro
Bench- Jew Schnieder
SP- Lee
SP- Nicole
SP- Jay Aye
SP- Joey Big Nuts
SP- ?
RP- Lidge
RP- Madson
RP- Romero
RP- Condrey?
RP- Durbin?
RP- Eyre?
RP- Ho Chi?
the bench is a thousand times better but the bullpen is gonna be a shtein storm
Get Halladay?
fap (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091208&content_id=7777666&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
The Eagles will win the Super Bowl before the Phillies get Halladay.
:-D
:paranoid
i said it after the phils traded for cliff lee........they still have the players/prospects that toronto wants to get halladay. hell, after making the deal for lee last year, amaro should have called toronto back up and swung a deal for halladay at the deadline.
halladay and lee starting games 1 and 2 in the bronx last year? yes please.
and now that he only comes with as a 1yr rental, the asking price for him should drop significantly. phils still have what it takes to make it happen. it's just a matter of whether or not they pull the trigger.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on December 09, 2009, 08:29:13 PM
and now that he only comes with as a 1yr rental, the asking price for him should drop significantly.
not necessarily because toronto can keep him and get multiple #1 picks when he walks at the end of next year
yes necessarily. his trade value right now is lower than it was at the deadline last season because last year, teams were getting him for 2 playoff runs. now they only get him for 1. and lol @ first round picks. they have the least value compared to first round picks in any other sport.
see johan santana to the mets. they got him for a song.
the picks that toronto would get when he walks at the end of the year are compensation picks. teams are not allowed to trade their draft picks in baseball.
its lower but not significantly...toronto will have no problem getting him for another year and taking the picks...which are big to them because they dont cost anything and are years away from arbitration and free agency...its not like toronto is looking for major league ready players in this deal...
so if you want him now you better blow them away with a deal...and the johan deal if anything raises halladays value as toronto doesnt wanna be crucified like minnesota was in giving away santana...hell they dont wanna be cleveland last year with lee...by keeping him and taking the numbers ones they can just say no one offered them anything close to fair value and they had no choice
they won't give him away for peanuts, but his value is definitely lower than it was at the trade deadline. and while they might not be looking for ml ready players, they definitely want prospects who can/should be ready either late this up coming season or for the start of 2011. i bet they could get him right now for happ, drabek and some throw in minor leaguer.
no chance they would do that....but its a moot point anyway as the phils arent giving up drabek for him
Gazillion dollar question. When will Drabek be in the lineup?
barring a disaster in the rotation next year earliest would be a roster expansion sept call up...but most likely he trys to crack the rotation in 2011
outside shot at this year midseason. most likely rube goes with some sort of inexpensive old guy as the 5, and that has a good shot of blowing up. a cole-like performance at AAA could get him up here sooner.
if the phils rotation is in shape it doesnt matter what he does in AAA he isnt coming up
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 09, 2009, 03:44:34 PM
fap (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091208&content_id=7777666&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi)
As nice as it would be, there's no way. Not with the way Amaro has been cramming "budget, budget, budget" down our throats this winter. How would they fit him under their $140M limit? Trading Blanton would be a way to help...but Halladay likely would want an extension. And Amaro said they wouldn't have the payroll to accommodate both Lee and Halladay.
The Gload signing is nice.
nm
Well apparently the Phils came in second for Lyons and he got 3/15 so obviously Rube still has some elbow room.
Pedro Feliz signed with the EdWades....$4.5M
Zolecki says the rumors are real and that the Phillies are definitely in on Halladay with the biggest obstacle being salary.
The rumor thats being floated right now is Happ and Brown for Halladay. DO IT.
If that is truly the case you have to do it.
definitely do it. i just hope they'll have the money too extend lee too.
they aren't going to trade good prospects for halladay not to extend him. if they do it, they are almost certainly going to extend him and let lee walk at the end of the year
have do it if thats the deal. happ will bottom out as a 4/5 starter and you can get a 20 game winner and playoff stud for a solid outfield prospect when you have 2/3 of your outfield set for the next half decade?
doooooooooooooooo ittttttttttttttttttttt
no one in the outfield is set for the next half of a decade. but i agree... its really the only way to compete against the yank's if they make the series again. you pretty much have to assume 2 pitch hamels was a flash in the pan.
yea they have those victorino and werth guys who can be resigned for a reasonable price.
if you had taylor AND brown you had the luxury to bounce one but having to keep both isnt a bad deal.
the idea of a mid-20s World Series MVP only being good enough to be a #3 starter on a PHILLIES team....5 years ago that would've been crazy...
his world series mvp might as well have been 20 years ago....hes pretty much starting from scratch this year in spring training
which is why they are entertaining thoughts of getting halladay in the first place
That's a pretty reasonable asking price even if he is only a rental for one year. I like Happ but it seemed like Charlie didn't have confidence in him in the playoffs and one very good outfield prospect is not that bad when you have another that you are high on. Given the current composition of the team and the National League not having another really solid contender this is a good risk to take.
If they pick up Halladay then anything less than a World Series championship is a huge disappointment.
anything less than a title is always a disappointment. this aint los angeles or kansas city.
No way it happens.
None
Zero
Zip
Nada
Season's over. Move on...
Levon Kirkland....etc...
got this from another board...
QuoteTake it for what it is worth, a good buddy of mine who is a higher-up with the Flyers and his wife are best of buds with a guy who works for the Phillies named John Brazier (sp) and his wife, they go out all the time.
According to this Brazier guy, the Phillies have already acquired Halladay and are in a "72-hour negotiating" window with Halladay and his agent.
JA Happ, Domenic Brown, Anthony basticho, and another prospect named Tony Hewitt (sp) for Halladay and Jesse Carlson (sp).
I have no clue how true this is, but I thought I'd pass it along. He claims that this deal could be done and announced by early next week.
I am passing along a rumor, so don't shoot the messanger if this never comes to fruition.
son of a bitch don't u dare get my hopes up.
how the farg am i supposed to hide my boner for the next few days?
Quote from: SunMo on December 11, 2009, 10:31:42 PM
got this from another board...
QuoteTake it for what it is worth, a good buddy of mine who is a higher-up with the Flyers and his wife are best of buds with a guy who works for the Phillies named John Brazier (sp) and his wife, they go out all the time.
According to this Brazier guy, the Phillies have already acquired Halladay and are in a "72-hour negotiating" window with Halladay and his agent.
JA Happ, Domenic Brown, Anthony basticho, and another prospect named Tony Hewitt (sp) for Halladay and Jesse Carlson (sp).
I have no clue how true this is, but I thought I'd pass it along. He claims that this deal could be done and announced by early next week.
I am passing along a rumor, so don't shoot the messanger if this never comes to fruition.
No way. I'd skeet all over my keyboard.
no chance
i wanted halladay last year when it would have mattered
but theres no chance they trade for him now and the team wins the world series...to much can go wrong over a 162 game season it to long a time...and teams that makes deals like this where it looks like its a no lose thing always end up losing and usually losing pretty bad...like i can see the phils getting halladay and missing the playoffs
oh and i farging love dominic brown
lol you negative nancy
if they get halladay the nl is LOCKED UP
the nl is irrelevant..they can win that without him
and you said the world series was locked up last year
anyway all im saying is when they get him...everyone and their sister...including every prognosticator in the country wil be picking them to win the world series and that never happens
oh of course
the only thing that will derail them is injuries. even lidge blowing up again wont hurt. they won 90 some games last year with no closer and didnt have lee for most of the year and of course no halladay.
you cang guarantee a world series win, thats impossible. obviously it would be the only acceptable result. but getting halladay means they literally dont have to break a sweat until the late october.
yeah and injuries probably will derail them...something will go wrong...it always does when someone is that big of a favorite...especially when you have seven months of things to happen as opposed to making a deal at the trade deadlinbe where you have two
its not worth dominic brown...maybe the best black baseball player since dave winfield
haha
they need to be 100% by late october. missing a guy here or there is inevitable, but they can drop a guy from the lineup or rotation and still win the nl. the league is just awful. no one got better and the phils have already made the mets and dodgers their permanent bitches. who is gonna beat the king? farging MA st lou? colorado? atlanta? yea ok.
yes, pass up on the best pitcher in baseball for some kid who might be the best black player in 20 years. your obsession with black sometimes exceeds black people's obsession with black people.
if you've got a boner for dominic brown because he has stud potential, fine. his color doesn't and shouldn't mean shtein.
Domonic, iceholes. It's DOMONIC!
I dig the guy too...but you have to deal him to get Halladay.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tom_verducci/12/10/winter.meetings.phillies/
Quote"They've been very aggressive," one baseball source said about the Phillies' pursuit of Halladay. "They're putting together a package, even if they need another team. They're trying to find the players [on other teams] the Blue Jays want to get it done."
QuoteThe Phillies represent the biggest growth brand in the baseball industry, similar to how the Red Sox began to rise in 2003 under new ownership. Their farm system is so flush that they could trade for both Lee (who cost them four prospects) and Halladay inside of six months and still have hay in the barn. Their attendance has risen 38 percent since 2006, climbing from 2.6 million -- ninth in the league -- to 3.6 million. Their payroll in those three years jumped 49 percent, from $88 million to $131 million and is likely to approach $140 million in 2010. Local television ratings for the Phillies on CSN Philadelphia, their regional sports network, soared 24 percent last year alone -- the team's seventh consecutive season with increased viewership. The Phillies' 7.13 rating and 210,000 average homes are team records. Only the Yankees and Red Sox reach more households with their local networks -- making the Phillies the most watched team in the NL.
"And you would be shocked at how little they pay in revenue sharing," griped one GM.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on December 12, 2009, 01:41:52 AM
yes, pass up on the best pitcher in baseball for some kid who might be the best black player in 20 years. your obsession with black sometimes exceeds black people's obsession with black people.
if you've got a boner for dominic brown because he has stud potential, fine. his color doesn't and shouldn't mean shtein.
it means a lot...while the black baseball is on the verge of extinction the phillies are singlehadedly trying to bring it back...dominic brown is the leader of that...
but its also about karma...teams that load up on players so much so that it seems like they cant lose usually do...like i said its a whole nother story when its at the trading deadline..but if they get halladay now you can almost book it that lee and or halladay either have a big time off year or get hurt and the phillies win nothing
race is nearly as boring a topic as the middle america bullshtein.
I love Brown, but saying he is going to be better than Barry Bonds is pretty ridiculous.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 12, 2009, 07:35:02 AM
it means a lot...while the black baseball is on the verge of extinction the phillies are singlehadedly trying to bring it back...dominic brown is the leader of that...
lol. yeah, i'm sure the phils goal is to revitalize the black presence in baseball. like putting together a ws roster isn't challenging enough, the phils want to make sure that they do it with black players.
Quotebut its also about karma...teams that load up on players so much so that it seems like they cant lose usually do...like i said its a whole nother story when its at the trading deadline..but if they get halladay now you can almost book it that lee and or halladay either have a big time off year or get hurt and the phillies win nothing
your logic....or lack there of, is amazing. the yanks and red sox have both bought multiple ws championships this decade alone. the marlins bought a couple and the d-backs bought 1. and i seriously doubt the phils would make a move for halladay unless they are able to sign him to a long(er) term deal before hand. so it's not like the phils would be gearing up for 2010 and 2010 only. it'll be something that will help keep them as legit contenders for at least 3-5 yrs.
oh, and re: best black player since dave winfield....
ken griffey jr would like to have a word with you.
If it guaranteed another WFC in 2010 I wouldn't care one bit if the Phillies gave up the farm to get Halladay.
Quote from: Rome on December 12, 2009, 01:16:16 PM
If it guaranteed another WFC in 2010 I wouldn't care one bit if the Phillies gave up the farm to get Halladay.
i wouldn't either, but there are no absolute guarantees.
basically, if the phils get him as a 1 yr rental, then they better win it all in 2010. if they sign him to a contract then they need to win at least 1 or 2 during that time.
seeing them win 1 is seriously good enough for me for probably the next 20 years. especially since they were able to get back again last year. this team is legit and relevant and even without halladay, will remain so for the next several years so as a long suffering fan, that makes me happy.
but at the same time, if they have a chance to get the best pitcher in baseball in exchange for a prospect who hasn't done anything at the ml level yet, then i'm all for it. brown may or may not be the real deal when he makes it to the bigs. he might suffer a career ending injury in his rookie year. he might get adenharted. he might be the best black phillie since ricky jordan. who knows?
Quote from: Rome on December 12, 2009, 01:16:16 PM
If it guaranteed another WFC in 2010 I wouldn't care one bit if the Phillies gave up the farm to get Halladay.
me either...the problem is they wont win it if they get him right now
you are a ridiculous excuse for a human being
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 12, 2009, 06:15:34 PM
Quote from: Rome on December 12, 2009, 01:16:16 PM
If it guaranteed another WFC in 2010 I wouldn't care one bit if the Phillies gave up the farm to get Halladay.
me either...the problem is they wont win it if they get him right now
lol, what? Based on what?
They won it in 2008
They were a legitimate starter (without a vadge) away from winning it in 2009
Not much has changed other than they'd get a starter for 2010.
Tell us again your "logic" behind your rantings?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 13, 2009, 08:42:07 AM
Based on what?
karma and the sports gods
and im saying they have no chance if they GET halladay...if they dont get them they actually have a better chance to win the world series...that seems to go against everything you were taught to believe in sports but trust me its the way it works
is that how it worked for the d-backs when they aquired randy johnson and curt schilling. or when the yankees picked up roger clemems? what about when the marlins went out and bought 2 championships?
your reasons for not wanting this are stupid and supersticious. just put a rabbits foot in your pocket, hang a horseshoe over your door and say 20 hail mary's and that should pretty much even things out.
or off yourself so we dont have to listen to you bitch and moan about getting the best pitcher in baseball
with a silver bullet?
Its funny because the Yankees won the World Series this year because they bought three players for what, 275 million combined?
The Phils wouldn't even be buying him theyd be giving up talent to get talent.
dont try to bring logic into this conversation
I just saw this and thought it would fit well here
QuoteBaseball is funny. Use stats that require 3rd grade math and you're "smart." Use better stats that require 6th grade math and you're "dumb."- Keith Law
Quote from: MDS on December 13, 2009, 12:24:36 PM
or off yourself so we dont have to listen to you bitch and moan about getting the best pitcher in baseball
i wont bitch until d brown becomes the best player in baseball...i promise
well maybe a little bit next october when the phils dont win the world series...if they even make the playoffs
trust karma on this
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 13, 2009, 07:33:01 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 13, 2009, 12:24:36 PM
or off yourself so we dont have to listen to you bitch and moan about getting the best pitcher in baseball
i wont bitch until d brown becomes the best player in baseball...i promise
well maybe a little bit next october when the phils dont win the world series...if they even make the playoffs
trust karma on this
Fargin Drama Queen
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 13, 2009, 07:33:01 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 13, 2009, 12:24:36 PM
or off yourself so we dont have to listen to you bitch and moan about getting the best pitcher in baseball
i wont bitch until d brown becomes the best player in baseball...i promise
well maybe a little bit next october when the phils dont win the world series...if they even make the playoffs
trust karma on this
ok, ill trust karma. you idiot.
have another lightweight
i dont think i should drink more than 2 beers. when you have 3, bad things always seem to happen. its karma.
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Sources-Trade-Talks-for-Halladay-Heating=1&blockID=103216&feedID=704
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Halladay_and_agent_in_Philadelphia.html
i have a massive boner
If they can keep Lee too.... :paranoid
Though if they trade Lee I don't mind it as a move for the future. They could be resigned to the fact that they aren't signing him long term. This would allow them to keep their core prospects, get Halladay, and sign him long term. Hard to argue with that. :yay :yay
Halladay and his agent? This is beyond boners.
i've heard that Lee didn't want to pitch this year on the last year of his deal and that Amaro wanted to have both guys for 2010. so putting Lee in the 3-way deal is because of Lee, not Amaro.
lee wouldnt have a choice but to pitch this year. it comes down to being able to sign halladay long term.
he wouldn't have a choice, but he could make life miserable if he wanted to.
Heyman reported it was a done deal with Lee going to Seattle, Taylor + 3 Seattle prospects to Toronto and Halladay + cash coming here
sun mo - baseball is a different animal than football. you dont see that type of situation nearly as much.
again, being able to sign halladay makes sense and when you take away lee's, feliz', thome's and eaton's contracts they have money to pay halladay.
I hate to see Lee go but if the Phils think they can get Halladay cheaper than Lee long term than it is absolutely worth it.
jesus, heyman is saying Brown and Lee now. that would not be good if nothing else came back
dont be surprised to see lee go to the angels
this all depends on what the contract extension is for roy
i really dont want to give up brown
If it's Lee AND a prospect, It's a little meh.....but just Lee and I can live with it.
Gonna really hate not having a Hallady/Lee 1-2 punch though.
I don't really care if they give up one of the outfield prospects just so long as it isn't Drabek. They still need bullpen help so you have to wonder when that is going to be addressed.
now Yahoo is claiming it's Blanton/Happ/Brown, and Lee's agent hasn't heard anything all day....
it's also possible that 1 of the 3 prospects coming from Seattle is staying here if Brown is involved...
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 14, 2009, 05:25:21 PM
now Yahoo is claiming it's Blanton/Happ/Brown, and Lee's agent hasn't heard anything all day....
Can live with this.
QuoteHalladay is in Philadelphia talking to the Phillies about an extension, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports. Halladay has told friends he'd take less than market money to sign with the Phillies -- something in the neighborhood of five years and $100 million.
QuoteLee has told the Phillies he would like to stay but wants market.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4742072
Lee wants market, Halladay is willing to give a "winners" discount. Makes sense to me. It would be ridiculously awesome to keep both, but I'd take Halladay for a discount long-term and have a dominant righty in a left-hand heavy rotation.
SD_Eagle is actively looking for rjs's dog to kick its ass if this deal goes through as-is (meaning anything involving Lee).
Stark is saying 3-yr extension with 2 vested options and the Phils top catching prospect D'Arnaud might be involved...
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 14, 2009, 05:52:27 PM
Stark is saying 3-yr extension with 2 vested options and the Phils top catching prospect D'Arnaud might be involved...
But WHO? Lee, Blanton, Happ?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 14, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 14, 2009, 05:52:27 PM
Stark is saying 3-yr extension with 2 vested options and the Phils top catching prospect D'Arnaud might be involved...
But WHO? Lee, Blanton, Happ?
Stark is saying Lee, d'Arnaud, and Taylor/Brown
Quote from: QB Eagles on December 14, 2009, 05:59:55 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 14, 2009, 05:54:07 PM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 14, 2009, 05:52:27 PM
Stark is saying 3-yr extension with 2 vested options and the Phils top catching prospect D'Arnaud might be involved...
But WHO? Lee, Blanton, Happ?
Stark is saying Lee, d'Arnaud, and Taylor/Brown
Don't like it.
Salisbury thinks it's Drabek
Nobody seems to have a clue...
They already gave up four prospects to get Lee and now they're giving up Lee, the prospects they gave up to get him and Drabek, Taylor, etc.
Stupid beaner.
SI says the deal is done but it isn't known who the Phillies are giving up. What a helpful report.
Stark:
QuoteAs part of the deal, Halladay would agree to a three-year extension through 2013, with a vesting option that could lengthen the deal by another year or two, one source said. The extension is expected to guarantee Halladay in the neighborhood of $60 million, plus the $15.75 million he would make in 2010, the final year of his current contract.
I'll be really farging pissed off if they gave up Lee and a shteinload of prospects. Giving up Lee would be bad enough, but giving him up plus blue chippers after they gave away decent prospects last year just to get Lee would be Harold Katz-like stupid.
Actually Stark said the Phillies would trade D'Arnaud and Taylor but get two of Seattle's upper echelon prospects (or one of their top prospects. Saunders?) back in the deal to keep.
Lose: D'Arnaud/Taylor/Lee
Get: 2 Prospects/Halladay + extension.
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 14, 2009, 06:24:31 PM
Actually Stark said the Phillies would trade D'Arnaud and Taylor but get two of Seattle's upper echelon prospects (or one of their top prospects. Saunders?) back in the deal to keep.
Lose: D'Arnaud/Taylor/Lee
Get: 2 Prospects/Halladay + extension.
The names thrown around are high-A relief pitcher Phillippe Aumont, left fielder Saunders who played on the Mariners from July on, and diabetic starter Brandon Morrow who was in the Mariners September rotation. Meh.
We'll see how it shakes out when it's over. D'Arnaud is not an elite prospect.
Lets look at it when the deal is done. I think the move makes it fairly obvious that Lee wasn't planning on coming back after the year.
That's a shame...considering this city loved him so much.
I think Lee was going to wait and go wherever the money took him. Which didn't rule out the Phillies. But Halladay comes cheaper than market and the Phils don't need to risk losing their ace in a bidding war.
I was just listening to Kruk and he said supposedly the Phils offered Lee an extension and that he refused it. He said he likes the organization but he wants to test the waters next year.
The rumors are flying fast and furious now. Christ - just about every Phillie prospect and half the active roster has been mentioned at this point.
Crazy.
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Fever-Pitch-Pursuit-of-Halladay-Almost-O=1&blockID=103216&feedID=704
LOL...Salisbury's gone lost his mind. Quick...name EVERY possible prospect and maybe you'll get it right.
If what he says is true that trade is awful. Taylor, Drabek, Lee, and D'Arnaud.
Phils give up Lee, Drabek, Brown, Utley, Howard, the Phanatic, the Bank's concession money, City Hall, and PhillyPhreak54 as a fan. In return they get Halladay for 4 years, but the Jays are gonna hack off his non-pitching arm and give him AIDS.
Quote from: QB Eagles on December 14, 2009, 08:48:12 PM
Phils give up Lee, Drabek, Brown, Utley, Howard, the Phanatic, the Bank's concession money, City Hall, and PhillyPhreak54 as a fan. In return they get Halladay for 4 years, but the Jays are gonna hack off his non-pitching arm and give him AIDS.
ha!
Joe, Salisbury is ridiculous. I only posted it to show how out of control he is.
I realize that people are just throwing shtein and seeing what sticks. But if that would happen to be true that would be farging retarded. They would be giving up more than what they would have in the summer.
If they weren't willing to give up Drabek for Halladay last year, then there is no way in hell they give him up this year after they shed all that talent on the farm. Ruben isn't that stupid.
Here's another diverging report. From Bob Elliott (big baseball reporter in Canada):
Halladay and Aumont to Phils
Lee and Drabek gone
Aumont's a top relieving prospect, but only single A.
I think he might be pulling his "I heard" comments from Salisbury.
No one knows...and the only person I WILL listen to/trust on this will be Stark.
I'm officially against a trade that includes Lee AND Drabek unless they're getting Seattle's entire system back.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 14, 2009, 09:39:51 PM
I think he might be pulling his "I heard" comments from Salisbury.
No one knows...and the only person I WILL listen to/trust on this will be Stark.
Stark:
QuoteThe specifics of the trade took some twists and turns on Monday. The trade's latest structure would send Phillies outfielder Michael Taylor, Phillies catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud and a Phils pitcher -- either Kyle Drabek or J.A. Happ -- to Toronto, sources said. And indications Monday night were that that pitcher was likely to be Drabek. Under that scenario, the Phillies would not have to include their top position-player prospect, Domonic Brown, and they would receive Seattle's top pitching prospect, Phillippe Aumont, who originally appeared ticketed for Toronto.
The Phillies also would receive one other prospect -- believed to be 21-year-old outfielder Tyson Gillies -- from Seattle in exchange for Lee, who is a year away from free agency.
So the Phils lose Lee, Drabek/Happ, Taylor, d'Arnaud, and gain Halladay, Aumont, and Gillies.
Gillies on the Phillies?
If they get Aumont in return that is pretty damn good, I don't anything about Gillies. But I remember watching Aumont during the WBC and he looks like he could be a legit pitcher.
Aumont would become the Phils top pitching prospect; Gillies is ranked as the Mariners' #15 prospect.
so they said no farging way on drabek in july and now will trade him? what.
Until it actually becomes official I won't get too crazy but a lot of these reports just don't make a lot of sense.
Salisbury says Toronto is sending $6M to cover part of Halladay's salary
Jesus Christ.
I'm confused. I haven't been on line all day. Is this serious?
If they have little or no option to sign Lee, they have to make this move. As sad as it is to see him go, hopefully Halladay can be the pimp that he is/was in the post season.
I'd prefer to give up Mister Nibbles, JA Happ, rather than Drabek.
I don't know anything about the prospects they would get in return.
Zolecki is saying none of the prospects from Seattle are going to Toronto, which means it's two separate trades, which is just farging dumb. KEEP Lee and find someone to take Blanton, it really wouldn't be that hard.
giving up happ means they have to go with kendrick and moyer or something like that in the rotation. so no.
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 14, 2009, 10:27:12 PM
Zolecki is saying none of the prospects from Seattle are going to Toronto, which means it's two separate trades, which is just farging dumb. KEEP Lee and find someone to take Blanton, it really wouldn't be that hard.
They'd end up letting Lee leave at the end of the year for nothing.
They're trading Lee simply for a salary dump. Damn Moyer....
Jay -- it's basically this:
Lee to Seattle for Aumont (Frenchie from Quebec) and Gillies (Vancouver deaf boy)
Halladay + $6M to Philly for Drabek, Taylor and d'Arnaud
Lee wasn't going to resign here next year. And if he did, he certainly wasn't going to give the Phils a "winner"/"hometown" discount as Halladay is claiming to be doing. He already turned down one extension offer saying he wanted to test the market.
Why did they even give Moyer two years guaranteed?
Halladay long term may be worth it. This is a really tough trade with all the implications to the Phils rotation and future OF. Man, not sure how to feel especially since 4 good prospects were just dumped less than 6 months ago.
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 14, 2009, 10:32:34 PM
They're trading Lee simply for a salary dump. Damn Moyer....
Jay -- it's basically this:
Lee to Seattle for Aumont (Frenchie from Quebec) and Gillies (Vancouver deaf boy)
Halladay + $6M to Philly for Drabek, Taylor and d'Arnaud
lol - are the Frenchman and Hellen Keller any good?
Why two separate deals? Why wouldn't this be a three team deal?
Dump Lee AND get $6M? Are these fargs crying poor again?
shtein, I have a lot of reading to do to catch up on this.
And why not dump Blanton and keep Lee?
Quote from: QB Eagles on December 14, 2009, 10:30:15 PM
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 14, 2009, 10:27:12 PM
Zolecki is saying none of the prospects from Seattle are going to Toronto, which means it's two separate trades, which is just farging dumb. KEEP Lee and find someone to take Blanton, it really wouldn't be that hard.
They'd end up letting Lee leave at the end of the year for nothing.
It wouldn't be nothing if they won a WS.
cant they make the 9m back by raising ticket prices? theyd still get 45k a night.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 14, 2009, 10:37:36 PM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 14, 2009, 10:32:34 PM
They're trading Lee simply for a salary dump. Damn Moyer....
Jay -- it's basically this:
Lee to Seattle for Aumont (Frenchie from Quebec) and Gillies (Vancouver deaf boy)
Halladay + $6M to Philly for Drabek, Taylor and d'Arnaud
lol - are the Frenchman and Hellen Keller any good?
Why two separate deals? Why wouldn't this be a three team deal?
Dump Lee AND get $6M? Are these fargs crying poor again?
shtein, I have a lot of reading to do to catch up on this.
And why not dump Blanton and keep Lee?
I'm pretty sure dumping Blanton means they still have to pay his salary this year.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 14, 2009, 10:37:36 PMlol - are the Frenchman and Hellen Keller any good?
Aumont was picked 8 spots ahead of Savery two years ago...decent righty pitching prospect that was converted to reliever to get him to AA faster
Gillies was in the Futures game this summer and is a speedy CF and leadoff hitter
Not if they traded him, right?
Non-tender Blanton...that would be an option, right? Can they do that?
When Lee bolts as a FA, they get two picks/.
QuoteAnd why not dump Blanton and keep Lee?
Do you think Blanton has as much value as Lee?
Either way I don't think I'm going to be completely satisfied with this trade. If anything I'm going to probably feel like it will be somewhat of a wash if the Phils have to give away top prospects. If they are concerned about payroll now why would they ship off their top pitching prospect and one of their top OF prospects who may see playing time soon with an aging Ibanez and Victorino and Werth looking for huge paydays once they hit the FA market in a couple of seasons?
They know their own finances better than I do but on its face it seems like there could be bigger financial troubles/deficiency of prospects down the road.
People this is not complicated. If it's a separate deal, keep Lee for a year. If he walks after the season you get 2 first rd picks. Blanton is a FA too. Blanton only has a 1 yr deal for ~ 7 mil. There are literally tons of teams that would take Blanton for that price. Keep Lee, trade Blanton. You don't get as many prospects back but you get your salary relief and you get to be the best team in baseball for at least a year AND you get picks next year.
doc
lee
hamels
kendrick
moyer
doc
hamels
happ
blanton
kendrick/moyer
i choose #1
Its the Moyer part that scares me...in either scenario.
Bring back Pedro
The other thing that makes no sense about this being two separate trades is there is absolutely no rush to trade Lee. If you're going to trade Halladay and want to trade Lee to help replenish the farm (which I don't agree with), you have all winter to shop him, or Blanton, or Victorino, or anyone else you want to get prospects back. No need to ship anyone now if you aren't using the Mariners prospects to get Roy.
if their seriously trading any of their top teir prospects then there's no reason not to tell the m's to farg off and have doc and lee in the rotation together next year. non tender blanton.. give doc his extension.. and let lee walk and get the 2 picks for him.
i think its stupid to give away any prospects especially outfield ones when that means their going to be throwing money at all 3 outfield positions over the next 2 off seasons and they will still have howard coming up, but i guess if it meant landing doc.. go for it. they'll need both to actually win the series in '10.. if they trade lee they still only win 2 games like last year. basically it would still be up to the humongous vagina what this team is able to accomplish.
I went into work assuming this would be cleared up by the time I got off and there still aren't any details? WTF
I really don't like if Lee, Drabek, and Taylor/Brown are leaving....maybe two out of those 4, but not 3. That's fargin retarded.
when i first heard about this today i was thinking that it was a 3 team trade. didn't realize that it's actually 2 separate trades. that really doesn't make any damn sense to me at all.
the phils have the ability to trade for halladay without giving up lee and i guess the only reason that they are looking to move lee is so they don't have to pay his salary this year? i don't get it.
lee is only scheduled to make 8mil this year so it's not like he's breaking the bank already. are you telling me that the phils can't free up 7 or 8 million worth of payroll? someone said that blanton is due 7 mil this year and this is the last year of his contract. so if the phils are willing to pay joey b 7mil for a year, why the hell wouldn't they be willing to pay cliff farging lee 8mil? why not put some feelers out there for a blanton trade and see what you get out of it?
it really doesn't make any sense. only the phils could do something so awesome like getting roy halladay and still find a way to farg the day up somehow. i mean damn, it's like i want to be farging stoked about halladay but i really can't since they're giving up cliff lee on the same day.
The only way it makes any kind of sense is Lee gets them a couple top prospects back to replace the ones they gave up. But it's still kinda zesty to give up Lee and two out of your top 3 prospects. and by kinda zesty I mean really zesty
It's far from established that the deal is actually two separate trades.
this is a tough one on how to feel about it
why didnt they just trade lee for aumont and gillies then sign lackey
to give up drabek in this mess is baffling......at least they didnt give up brown but i just cant believe after all they said about him in the end they are giving up drabek
drabek
taylor
arnaud
marson
martinez
knapp
carrasco
donald
for
halladay
aumont
gillies
or if you wanna weed out the trash its
drabek
taylor
arnaud
knapp
for
halladay
aumont
To be fair, they did get half a year of Lee and a WS run too.
The thing I still don't understand is if you're willing to finally move Drabek etc than why not stick with Lee for a year and take the two picks when he leaves? The rumors of the Phillies getting back Aumont, Gillies, and Ramirez are all well and good, but Aumont might end up being the only significant one in that group.
Quote from: QB Eagles on December 15, 2009, 06:33:51 AM
To be fair, they did get half a year of Lee and a WS run too.
well then you have to include lee in the package of players they gave up for halladay and then the deal looks horribly bad
not liking giving up the farm, and giving away Lee. I know the money part, but to now give up Drabek and Lee isnt what i want to see
done deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4744730
so instead of that 1-2 punch that is so crucial for a world series run or win, the phillies are back to a 1 punch they originally had with Lee.
this was probably talked about amongst you more involved Phillie heads, but is this not a wash more than anything--regardless of the prospects?
i wouldnt say its exactly a wash because halladay is definitely better than lee
Maybe they'll say screw it and keep Lee and go boom or bust this season. Even if Lee leaves people here say they would get 2 first round picks for him. I think a top of the rotation with Halladay and Lee for an entire season and presumably for the playoffs is too good to pass up, even if their farm system is left depleted.
I mean for one season to have Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Blanton as the rotation has got to be the best rotation the Phils have ever put together in the "modern era." High risk, high reward there.
theyve already traded lee
Quote from: Eaglez on December 15, 2009, 10:55:53 AM
Maybe they'll say screw it and keep Lee and go boom or bust this season. Even if Lee leaves people here say they would get 2 first round picks for him. I think a top of the rotation with Halladay and Lee for an entire season and presumably for the playoffs is too good to pass up, even if their farm system is left depleted.
I mean for one season to have Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Blanton as the rotation has got to be the best rotation the Phils have ever put together in the "modern era." High risk, high reward there.
I already posted that its a done deal. Lee's gone.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 15, 2009, 10:55:27 AM
i wouldnt say its exactly a wash because halladay is definitely better than lee
no question he is, but i was going off the idea of having (2) pitchers that can come in and be lights out come playoff time. you just traded CY Young for Cy Young--wheres the huge benefit?
Quote from: reese125 on December 15, 2009, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 15, 2009, 10:55:27 AM
i wouldnt say its exactly a wash because halladay is definitely better than lee
no question he is, but i was going off the idea of having (2) pitchers that can come in and be lights out come playoff time. you just traded CY Young for Cy Young--wheres the huge benefit?
The benefit lies in the fact that Halladay was willing to work on the extension and take less than market to play for a winner. Lee was not. He wanted much more money and wasn't really interested in an extension this year. He wanted to test the market. If he did, after next season, he'd walk for nothing.
Quote from: reese125 on December 15, 2009, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 15, 2009, 10:55:27 AM
i wouldnt say its exactly a wash because halladay is definitely better than lee
no question he is, but i was going off the idea of having (2) pitchers that can come in and be lights out come playoff time. you just traded CY Young for Cy Young--wheres the huge benefit?
you have halladay for four years vs. lee for one
but they definitely could have had both for next year if they wanted to go over their budget...which they apparently did not
the key to this whole deal and really the key to the phillies for the next four years is how good is cole hamels going to be
It depends on how Drabek turns out. I would have preferred to trade Hamels and keep Lee and the prospects.
they couldnt keep lee and get halladay...he wants a lot more money than halladay...no way they could afford both
no one ever wants to trade prospects...including me...but if they win even one world series with halladay it was worth it...and thats only gonna happen if nicole bucks up and pitches like a true two or in a perfect world an ace even
the lee trade has to be for the prospects. why not just cut joey big nuts loose if its about the $?
No question the biggest part of this trade is NiCole, if he is close to what he was during the WS series run of '08 this team has a very good shot at winning another. I can't wait to see how good Doc is in the NL.
QuoteGiven that this seems to be two seperate trades, the reality of the situation is that no matter how good of a pitcher your just not going to get much for them when they only have one year left on a deal and everyone knows they won't even consider signing a contract extension with the team they are with before free agency. I get that, and I think the prospects we got for Lee are actually pretty decent value all things considered.
What kills me is that the only reason Lee is being traded now is because A) money, if it wasn't for money we could have kept Lee in the first place and its also the only reason we are giving up thos prospects B) they felt like if they were going to trade Lee it would have to be right away. Why? I don't know. It makes no sense.
Just goes to show you that the powers that be in the Phillies upper management still have no idea what they are doing. Many of the moves Amaro has made over his tenure have been mind numbingly stupid. Some of them worked out, but more in of throw a bunch of **** at the wall see what sticks kind of way. There is no doubt in my mind the Amaro era is going to be incredibly frustrating
.
It just seems like there is two strictly separate deals but somehow it is called a "three way trade." It is essentially a deal between the Phils and Blue Jays and between the Phils and Mariners. I don't see a reason why a trade with the Blue Jays would bind the Phils to a deal with Seattle, but what it seems is like that because the Phillies got Halladay, they have to trade Lee out of necessity because of payroll ramifications and the idea that they wouldn't be able to keep him long-term so they might as well get something for him now. So I don't think anything binds the Phils to trade Lee, but they probably feel this is the best way to go since they lost top prospects in the Blue Jays trade.
We'll see what happens. I'm happy Halladay is here while the core group of positon players are still in their prime, just hope the Phils keep this franchise competitive after this core is on the decline and they need to plug in farm talent so they don't have a repeat of the 90s and early 2000s.
From everything that I have read and heard the $140 million payroll is pretty strict they definitely won't go over it.
its gonna fun and interesting to watch over the next three years
drabek
taylor
arnaud
vs
aumont
gillies
ramirez
because if the phils dont win a world series with halladay the above matchup will go a long ways in judging how bad this trade was
something else not being talked about that is worth mentioning is that halladay turns 33 in the beginning of the season with a monster amount of innings under his belt...phillies are taking a risk there as well...lets hope he isnt on his way downhill starting this season
Yep-he's got like 2000 innings to Lee's 1100, not to mention he's a sinker ball pitcher which could effectivey reduce his endurance and power even more as age creeps up
sweet, so the still still only win 2 games in the series at this point. i don't what all the rumblings about the payroll are. they shipped doc over with $6 million too. in essence they chose having blanton for a year over having lee.
Supposedly he is a tireless worker and that may help as far as his longevity. I agree with IGY it will be interesting to see how these prospects turnout. I really hate the idea of giving up Drabek, but I guess that is the price you pay for a guy like Doc.
The Gilles kid supposedly is the french canadian deaf version of VIC, who knows. I'm happy they kept Brown though.
the phillie prospects are rated much much higher than the mariner prospects...seattle fans and more and more the organization seem to think of aumont like the phillie people did carrasco last year
now that doesnt mean that the guys the phillies got wont be better or maybe all six of them flop but the guys the phillies gave up are way ahead of the mariner guys in terms of major league potential
doesn't aumont have a degenerative hip or some shtein?
and a deaf outfielder? i'm sure he gets great jumps off the ball.
sounds like we took some garbage of the M's hands for them so in return they would save the phillies from their salary "hell". i seriously can't believe they wouldn't keep lee at $9 mil. when it obviously gives you an infinitely better chance of winning the series again. they are still the team to beat in the nl and they still can't beat the yankees.
yeah i would have kept lee for another year and took my chances in signing halladay next offseason or another big time pitching free agent like a beckett
i dont get the urgency in trading all those prospects right now just to swap lee for halladay
My guess would be that the Phillies think that Halladay is clearly better than Lee.
Did anybody see that piece that ESPN did this past season at the trading deadline? It was pretty interesting it was showing that in baseball there are very few trades that help both teams, it was more geared toward deadline deals. I think it is applicable here though, because if none of the prospects pan out, it basically is a Lee for Halladay deal.
blue jays already moved taylor to oakland for a 3b prospect
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 15, 2009, 12:03:35 PM
QuoteGiven that this seems to be two seperate trades, the reality of the situation is that no matter how good of a pitcher your just not going to get much for them when they only have one year left on a deal and everyone knows they won't even consider signing a contract extension with the team they are with before free agency. I get that, and I think the prospects we got for Lee are actually pretty decent value all things considered.
What kills me is that the only reason Lee is being traded now is because A) money, if it wasn't for money we could have kept Lee in the first place and its also the only reason we are giving up thos prospects B) they felt like if they were going to trade Lee it would have to be right away. Why? I don't know. It makes no sense.
Just goes to show you that the powers that be in the Phillies upper management still have no idea what they are doing. Many of the moves Amaro has made over his tenure have been mind numbingly stupid. Some of them worked out, but more in of throw a bunch of **** at the wall see what sticks kind of way. There is no doubt in my mind the Amaro era is going to be incredibly frustrating
.
I wrote basically this yesterday on the EMB and got drilled for it.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 15, 2009, 02:05:31 PM
yeah i would have kept lee for another year and took my chances in signing halladay next offseason or another big time pitching free agent like a beckett
i dont get the urgency in trading all those prospects right now just to swap lee for halladay
its more than that dook
halladay >>> lee
halladay is gonna wind up being cheaper than lee
as highly as they had drabek rated whoever this guy they got back from seattle must be in the same ballpark to them as drabek. taylor was expendable seeing as one of vic and werth will be long termed, brown will play one place and the other of spot can be a random vet replacement.
in amaros eyes he basically downgraded from future ace to future three, got the best pitcher in baseball and a couple of other wild cards for a possibly future solid major leaguer that probably wont be a player until utley and rollins are retired.
you do realize how lucky you need to get to have the rollins, utley, howard, werth, hamels thing pay out. like if those guys arent studs this is a 85 win team. brown, taylor, drabek could all wind up being average. we have no idea.
The Toronto/Phils deal I'm OK with because they worked out a deal for Halladay long-term. The Phils/Mariners deal is the one that I'm having a hard time coming to grips with. Doesn't seem like they are getting enough value for Lee when the Blue Jays got pretty good value for Halladay when both pitchers are in the same position (final year of contract).
They must think Aumont will step in for Lidge when Lidge's contract expires. Only if they think Aumont is going to be the closer of the future would trading Lee for him make much sense (the other guys seem like warm bodies that may or may not pan out).
they didnt give lee away for $
if it was for $ then blanton would have gone or they would have bought out moyer
it was for the youngins. i have no idea who they are or if theyre good. i dont scout the minor leagues for a living like monk does. gonna have to trust amaro and co. that they know these pups are gonna be players in a few years like we seem to think drabek and taylor are.
My question, and forgive me if this was already discussed, is why didn't they trade for Halladay in the summer and given Drabek/Brown, etc to Toronto then? Does anyone think the WS might have had a different outcome with Lee AND Halladay?
If it's young guys they're looking for then they should have kept Lee for the entire year then taken the two #1 draft picks he would have brought in free agency.
Epically stupid move on the Amaro's part especially considering Toronto is paying the Phillies 6 million for taking Halladay.
yeah and halladay could get hurt or suck because of age
aumont is not even close to being in the same league as drabek as a prospect
and pretty much every player on the team outside of utely will be a free agent by 2011
price dropped for halladay now that its a season as opposed to a season + half of one.
also their douche gm jp riccardi is gone and the new guy is rebuilding his mess. riccardi had a ego the size of texas and wasnt going to give halladay away unless he raped the phils farm system.
In three years the Phillies will be laden with an aging, injury-prone roster of overpaid stars on downward career trajectories.
Halladay will fit in perfectly.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 15, 2009, 02:51:32 PM
yeah and halladay could get hurt or suck because of age
drabek could throw out his arm again tomorrow. and taylor could tear an acl. cant worry about that stuff unless a guy has a history of it.
Quoteaumont is not even close to being in the same league as drabek as a prospect
according to baseball america? im saying the phillies people must think highly enough of this guy that he can the no1 pitcher in the farm system now. i have no idea if hes good or not. all we can do is hope rube is right.
Quoteand pretty much every player on the team outside of utely will be a free agent by 2011
yup. thats why they wanted to get halladay for these 2 years. lee wasnt gonna extend. they wanted to go for it these 2 years then start over. lee would have had to have gotten a 6 or 7 year deal after next year which would cripple them as having big $ tied up to an ace for a team that wasnt gonna win anything. now they have a guy tied up for 4 years and they can win 2 ws and maybe sneak in for 1 more in 2011 ala a 1983 phils run.
its for these next 2 years.
so they traded drabek and taylor so that they could have halladay for one year (2011)
2010 they could have had lee anyway so you take out that year
and ill admit halladay is slightly better than lee but not drabek and taylor better...and age wise its certainly not a given that he will be better....i just think its to big of a price to pay for essentially a lateral move
Quote from: Rome on December 15, 2009, 02:53:08 PM
In three years the Phillies will be laden with an aging, injury-prone roster of overpaid stars on downward career trajectories.
Halladay will fit in perfectly.
dont you realize its over after 11. they arent the sox or the yanks, they can just spend spend spend. they are gonna resign some of the guys they have now. the other spots are gonna be taken by the youngins and fa fill ins. those might or might not work out. we dont know if happ will hold up or if brown will pan out.
we know that halladay is the best pitcher in baseball.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 15, 2009, 03:08:03 PM
so they traded drabek and taylor so that they could have halladay for one year (2011)
2010 they could have had lee anyway so you take out that year
and ill admit halladay is slightly better than lee but not drabek and taylor better...and age wise its certainly not a given that he will be better....i just think its to big of a price to pay for essentially a lateral move
they clearly wanted the prospects for lee. they have to feeling 1 or 2 of the guys will be players in the 11 and 12 seasons. that has to be it. cant say its smart but it is what it is.
i would have kept lee for this year to have the 1 2 3 ace thing and let my 2010 ws ring relax me when the phils are middling in 12 13 and 14
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 15, 2009, 02:50:19 PM
My question, and forgive me if this was already discussed, is why didn't they trade for Halladay in the summer and given Drabek/Brown, etc to Toronto then? Does anyone think the WS might have had a different outcome with Lee AND Halladay?
Just the thought of having those two on the roster during the playoffs/WS caused me to pass out. This exact thought has crossed my mind about 7000 times since this went down yesterday.
2012:
c- ruiz
1b- ?
2b- utley
ss - ?
3b - polanco
of- brown
of- werth/vic
of - vic/fa
sp- doc
sp- hamels
sp- happ
sp- ?
sp - ?
cl- lidge
set- ?
set- ?
rest of bullpen- ????
i think you lock up werth now and if you win, could get someone stupid like victorino for a hometown discount. hes made it clear he wants to stay here and again, is just a stupid human being who would take less to stay here.
thats what ridiculous about it.. is that they gave up lee 1. like they were in any rush to do so. and 2. by simply holding onto lee they get two of their very own draft picks when he walks. giving up drabek and taylor for doc, lee, hamels.. sure. giving them up then giving lee up so the season still relies on the smelly vadge straightening it out and still not being able to beat the yankees = fail. the outfield prospect is DEAF, and the pitching prospect is a reliever. we need a reliever now.. not in 3 years. either way you slice it, they botched the lee thing. no reason to trade him and every reason to hold onto him.
hamels contract is up in '12 too.
World is ending in 2012 folks, dont have to worry about the future, should have kept lee
here's the problem with basically swapping lee for halladay.....halladay isn't an every day player. so realistically, maybe he accounts for 3-5 more wins during the regular season. in the post season, it's pretty hard to out perform lee. he can equal the performance, but it's not like halladay is going to lose less or win more games in october.
halladay might have better stats, but overall i don't really see this as a dramatic improvement. it's more of a step sideways than forward.
what the phils should have done was make tha halladay trade and then shop blanton for pennies on the dollar in terms of prospects in return. or package blanton and a mid-level prospect in exchange for another teams top tier prospect.
the entire reason i still wanted the phils to go after halladay this year is so that you have have doc and lee with about 65-70 starts between them for this year. you can still sign halladay long term and if lee wants to walk at the end of the year, then you take the 2 #1 picks you get as comp and send him on his way.
now you've got halladay locked up, a top prospect from the blanton trade, 2 top draft picks and the bulk of your highly touted prospects still waiting in the wings. not to mention that you're running out the best 1-2 starting combo since johnson and schilling. not that they won a ws or anything. wtf was rube thinking?
Rube needed a righty, and to have cash for a reliever
I didn't realize teams were lining up to take Blanton off our hands and pay his whole salary. Everyone is making it sound like it'd be simple as hell to just completely clear $7M and keep Lee....
couldnt they have non tendered blanton?
and halladay can go every 3 days so he gets you max 8 wins in the postseason.
there was no rush to deal lee. even if it was a numbers game.
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 15, 2009, 04:12:06 PM
I didn't realize teams were lining up to take Blanton off our hands and pay his whole salary. Everyone is making it sound like it'd be simple as hell to just completely clear $7M and keep Lee....
probably not lining up, banging on the front door to get him, but if the phils put it out there that they were looking to move him, i'm sure that there would be some teams out there with some interest.
and no, it probably wouldn't be simple to clear the salary but it's something that could be done with a little work.....something rube didn't bother trying. spend a month trying to shop blanton or any other means of freeing up some cash. if it works, you've got a dominating top of the rotation combo. if it doesn't, then you trade lee before the start of spring training and get what you can for him. it's not going to be any less than what the phils got today.
blanton at one year for seven million easily could have been moved
and just for the sake of argument lets say they couldnt move him...the notion that seven million dollars is a lot to a team that is making money hand over fist is ridiculous
and they wouldnt even have to worry about blantons money if amaro hadnt gave that ridiculous two year deal to moyer...i love how the phils dont want lee because he wanted a five year deal but had no problem signing moyer to two years at retarded money
phils won ws = moyer contract
phils lose ws = lee traded to seattle
thing that pisses me off is that the phils had been sending a message over the last 2 years that they will spend money and improve the team and it seemed like they were going to be the anti-eagles. like they got a taste of winning and want more and are willing to spend some money to make it happen. and now this bullshtein.
Am I wrong for not being fired up about this?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4745103&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines
Lee's agent called bullshtein on him overpricing himself.
amaro is so shady
He told the Cleveland GM he wouldn't offer a hometown discount and he told the Phillies he wouldn't offer a hometown discount.
But even if he didn't directly say so, there was ample opportunity for Lee to re-up longterm after he got to Philly last summer. He didn't, the opportunity to get Roy Boy for four years guaranteed came up, and that was the end of that.
I still think it's beyond retarded that the Phillies are giving up Lee over a measly nine million dollars, though. At the bare minimum they get a very reasonably priced 1A starter and then at the end of the deal they get two #1 draft picks from the team he signs with next winter. Or in essence, what they're getting now by trading him to Seattle. Only difference is they lose 15-20 wins plus whatever he would do in the playoffs.
No one can tell me that if a team is going to spend 140 million, 150 million is breaking the bank, especially when spending the extra ten million practically guarantees you another World Series run.
I'm with you, Rome. That's why I can't get excited even though they landed Halladay. It should be Halladay, Lee, Hamels in 2010...but the misers who count the beans at CBP are full of shtein.
Let Lee pitch for them in 2010 and get the two picks after he walks.
You know the Phillies royally screwed this up when they have all the hacks at Philly.com defending them. Hell, even Bill Conlin hasn't blasted them to kingdom come yet. And he lives for that shtein.
PS: Andy Martino must be Amaro's bitch. Just sayin'...
whats pathetic is they'll "save" lee's portion of salary and still not address the bullpen properly.
it's obvious gillick isn't doing much advising if any at all.
Quote from: LBIggle on December 15, 2009, 09:39:22 PM
whats pathetic is they'll "save" lee's portion of salary and still not address the bullpen properly.
it's obvious gillick isn't doing much advising if any at all.
That is one thing kind of lost in all of this craziness is that they still haven't addressed the bullpen.
It wasn't about money, it was about replacing Drabek and Taylor with the prospects from Seattle. Word is the Phillies scouts love these prospects almost as much as their own. They are taking a major gamble that Hamels will bounce back and be that 2nd ace that Lee would have been.
If it was about money they just would have traded Blanton for mediocre prospects and non-tendered Durbin.
thanks for mimicking exactly what i said you farging dolt
Well it wasn't on page 36 so I didn't see it.
phillies will act like it was the prospects but theres no one on earth other than amaro who would rate the prospects the phillies got even close to the ones they gave up...in fact drabek is a better prospect than all the mariner guys combined
the fact is toronto wouldnt have touched seattles guys with a ten foot pole where as they coveted drabek and had to have taylor even if it was to get another top prospect in wallace
otherwise just do this:
seattle gets lee
phillies get halladay
toronto gets aumont - gillies - ramirez - d arnaud
It still was about getting prospects back though. There were millions of ways they could have cleared up $ and kept Lee if it wasn't. I think while the prospects they sent to Toronto are supposed to be better than the ones coming back from Seattle, the FO didn't want to completely slaughter the farm. The fact that they could clear 9 mill was just a way to kill two birds with one stone.
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 16, 2009, 08:55:40 AM
It still was about getting prospects back though. There were millions of ways they could have cleared up $ and kept Lee if it wasn't. I think while the prospects they sent to Toronto are supposed to be better than the ones coming back from Seattle, the FO didn't want to completely slaughter the farm. The fact that they could clear 9 mill was just a way to kill two birds with one stone.
as far as the reason for not keeping lee it was 99% salary dump...its not like they said damn we traded prospects for halladay we have to get some back...because they could have let lee walk next winter and gotten two number ones for him that could have easily turned out more promising than aumont and gillies
now of course once you decide you have to trade lee you want something back for him...but they didnt trade lee to replenish the farm...they traded him because he was to expensive
my main point tho is that its ridiculous to say the phillies did this because they really like seattles prospects and think they are close to as good as the prospects they gave up
I don't agree with that.
I would have sucked it up and kept Lee for a year, but I think it was almost 100% about getting prospects back from Seattle. They were going to shed salary anyway. Moving Lee had salary implications but they figured they could move Lee for 9 million dollars and get 1 solid and 2 decent prospects back or move Blanton and get nothing back. As you said though, I would've just kept Lee and let him walk and take the 1 and 1a draft picks even if they were at the bottom of the round.
if they did this for prospects and there isnt anyone anywhere that thinks or has said they did then it makes it a travesty of a trade
just from an on paper standpoint it becomes inexcusable that they got that garabge from seattle instead of going for a infinitely better chance at a world series...
if it was for money reasons its bad if it was to get two ok minor leaguers then amaro should be fired immediately and it becomes worse than the pronger trade
Actually Stark and Kurkijan said it was about prospects yesterday. I haven't seen any legitimate source that said it was just about $, have you?
It's really simple. Once they decided they were getting Halladay they wanted to get prospects back while shedding salary. Lee was the easiest option to accomplish those two things. Does it mean it was the right move? No, but that's how they were thinking and I don't think anyone would have taken the two picks over 3 prospects who have done well so far in the minors. That being said, as I stated before, I would have sucked it up to be the best team in baseball this year and rolled the dice with the picks.
I don't think anyone here last year wouldn't have done a Drabek+Taylor+D'Arnaud for Halladay trade, especially knowing Halladay would sign an extension for 4 more years.
You set that aside and the other pieces that moved were:
Carrasco, Knapp, Marson, and Donald for Francisco, Aumont, Gillies, and Ramirez.
Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage. You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/12661068/phillies-win-busy-day-with-deal-to-land-halladay
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 16, 2009, 10:26:15 AM
Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage. You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...
they are less than what the phils gave for lee
and stark was on the scott van pelt show yesetrday saying money was definitely the main factor in getting rid of lee...both because of their strict 140 number and because they still want to have money to upgrade the pen
and murph wrote this in his daily news piece today....
Since the Phillies are trading Lee and his $9 million salary to the Mariners to help accommodate Halladay's salary, it is worth noting that the one thing standing in the way of 1 year of Halladay-Lee-Hamels might have been the 2-year contract that Jamie Moyer signed last offseason that guarantees him $8 million this season.
QuoteScouts we surveyed were split on whether the prospects exiting (Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis d'Arnaud) have a higher ceiling than the prospects arriving (Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and J.C. Ramirez). But the whole group is "a bunch of legit prospects," said one NL scout. "They're not just throwing in a bunch of names to make this look good."
So while the Phillies still have bullpen issues to address, "I like this deal a lot for the Phillies, long-term and short-term," said an AL scout. "They got the best pitcher in the game right now. And they got a couple of guys from Seattle [Aumont and Gillies] I'm surprised they could get."
from stark
so....with all the people you talked to igy and all the scouting youve done, do you have a counter?
i hate it when loud mouth idiot fans act like they know anything about minor leagues. no ones anything. its a farging guesswork game.
Please igy, like you know that Carrasco, Knapp, Donald, and Marson have a brighter future than Gillies, Aumont, and Ramirez.
No one will be able to assess that for a few years, and to say you have any greater idea than anyone else here is a blatant lie.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 16, 2009, 10:26:15 AM
Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage. You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...
they are less than what the phils gave for lee
and stark was on the scott van pelt show yesetrday saying money was definitely the main factor in getting rid of lee...both because of their strict 140 number and because they still want to have money to upgrade the pen
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4746360
Stark said this in his article:
"But if this were just about 2010, the Phillies probably wouldn't make this trade. Or they'd make the Halladay deal, keep Lee, clear payroll space by unloading Joe Blanton and unleash both Cy Youngs on the world.
Except that wasn't their MO. This was about extending their window of NL dominance as long as possible, not for one brief run at glory.
If they'd stood pat, Lee almost certainly would have headed off next winter to hit the free-agent lottery. And they'd most likely have gotten outbid by the Yankees or Red Sox on Halladay. So without either Lee or Halladay, the Phillies very conceivably might have had to blow up their team and retool."
As I said before. If it was about $, they would have dumped Blanton. It really isn't hard to figure out. If you disagree with that, you're just being argumentative.
And this is from Ken Rosenthal:
"While the Phillies will keep their No. 1 prospect, outfielder Domonic
Brown, their farm system would need years to recover if they lost that
many young players without receiving any in return.
That's the other reason why the Phillies need to trade Lee to get
Halladay -– they need the three prospects coming back from the Mariners.
One, sources say, is right-hander Phillippe Aumont, the Mariners' No.
3 prospect a year ago according to Baseball America. Another is
outfielder Tyson Gillies, the No. 20 prospect. The third reportedly is
right-hander Juan Ramirez, who was No. 5. "
I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that the Phillies would have needed to shed salary (or at least would have shed salary regardless of their need) after trading Halladay. Rosenthal details this in his article. The difference is Lee was the only movable player who could recoup some value in prospects, hence the reason for the deal. Saves the money and gets the prospects back in one move.
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 12:29:31 PM
QuoteScouts we surveyed were split on whether the prospects exiting (Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis d'Arnaud) have a higher ceiling than the prospects arriving (Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and J.C. Ramirez). But the whole group is "a bunch of legit prospects," said one NL scout. "They're not just throwing in a bunch of names to make this look good."
So while the Phillies still have bullpen issues to address, "I like this deal a lot for the Phillies, long-term and short-term," said an AL scout. "They got the best pitcher in the game right now. And they got a couple of guys from Seattle [Aumont and Gillies] I'm surprised they could get."
from stark
so....with all the people you talked to igy and all the scouting youve done, do you have a counter?
i hate it when loud mouth idiot fans act like they know anything about minor leagues. no ones anything. its a farging guesswork game.
knapp donald carrasco marson were "legit" prospects...and we all know how bad the phils raped cleveland...now the phils had the same thing done to them but its a great deal...homer haven is a wonderful place
supposedly one of the players in the deal failed his physical. press conference is now tomorrow
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 16, 2009, 12:36:54 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 16, 2009, 10:26:15 AM
Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage. You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...
they are less than what the phils gave for lee
and stark was on the scott van pelt show yesetrday saying money was definitely the main factor in getting rid of lee...both because of their strict 140 number and because they still want to have money to upgrade the pen
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4746360
Stark said this in his article:
"But if this were just about 2010, the Phillies probably wouldn't make this trade. Or they'd make the Halladay deal, keep Lee, clear payroll space by unloading Joe Blanton and unleash both Cy Youngs on the world.
Except that wasn't their MO. This was about extending their window of NL dominance as long as possible, not for one brief run at glory.
If they'd stood pat, Lee almost certainly would have headed off next winter to hit the free-agent lottery. And they'd most likely have gotten outbid by the Yankees or Red Sox on Halladay. So without either Lee or Halladay, the Phillies very conceivably might have had to blow up their team and retool."
As I said before. If it was about $, they would have dumped Blanton. It really isn't hard to figure out. If you disagree with that, you're just being argumentative.
this makes no sense...no one anywhere is suggesting they should have done nothing...a lot of people are saying they should have kept lee AND traded for halladay
think about what youre saying...youre trying to say that the phillies would not have traded for halladay if they couldnt have gotten gillies and aumont
that is so ridiculous it cant even be taken seriously
It's not really hard to comprehend igy: look at the overall scope of the players changing hands from the deadline last year and see if you'd do the deal.
They decided they'd get prospects back to restock the system instead of keeping Lee on a one year rental. I think those prospects, by all accounts, are on a similar level to what they paid to get Lee. Therefore, the overall deal is Drabek/Taylor/D'Arnaud for Francisco and Halladay + extension.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 01:10:47 PM
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 16, 2009, 12:36:54 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 11:59:52 AM
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 16, 2009, 10:26:15 AM
Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage. You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...
they are less than what the phils gave for lee
and stark was on the scott van pelt show yesetrday saying money was definitely the main factor in getting rid of lee...both because of their strict 140 number and because they still want to have money to upgrade the pen
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4746360
Stark said this in his article:
"But if this were just about 2010, the Phillies probably wouldn't make this trade. Or they'd make the Halladay deal, keep Lee, clear payroll space by unloading Joe Blanton and unleash both Cy Youngs on the world.
Except that wasn't their MO. This was about extending their window of NL dominance as long as possible, not for one brief run at glory.
If they'd stood pat, Lee almost certainly would have headed off next winter to hit the free-agent lottery. And they'd most likely have gotten outbid by the Yankees or Red Sox on Halladay. So without either Lee or Halladay, the Phillies very conceivably might have had to blow up their team and retool."
As I said before. If it was about $, they would have dumped Blanton. It really isn't hard to figure out. If you disagree with that, you're just being argumentative.
this makes no sense...no one anywhere is suggesting they should have done nothing...a lot of people are saying they should have kept lee AND traded for halladay
think about what youre saying...youre trying to say that the phillies would not have traded for halladay if they couldnt have gotten gillies and aumont
that is so ridiculous it cant even be taken seriously
That is a quote from Stark not me, so someone is suggesting it actually. And yes I do believe the Phillies wouldn't have made the deal if they weren't getting some sort of prospects back. That's the only reason to move Lee and not Blanton.
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 16, 2009, 12:58:23 PM
supposedly one of the players in the deal failed his physical. press conference is now tomorrow
It never ends. Jesus.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 12:55:11 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 12:29:31 PM
QuoteScouts we surveyed were split on whether the prospects exiting (Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis d'Arnaud) have a higher ceiling than the prospects arriving (Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and J.C. Ramirez). But the whole group is "a bunch of legit prospects," said one NL scout. "They're not just throwing in a bunch of names to make this look good."
So while the Phillies still have bullpen issues to address, "I like this deal a lot for the Phillies, long-term and short-term," said an AL scout. "They got the best pitcher in the game right now. And they got a couple of guys from Seattle [Aumont and Gillies] I'm surprised they could get."
from stark
so....with all the people you talked to igy and all the scouting youve done, do you have a counter?
i hate it when loud mouth idiot fans act like they know anything about minor leagues. no ones anything. its a farging guesswork game.
knapp donald carrasco marson were "legit" prospects...and we all know how bad the phils raped cleveland...now the phils had the same thing done to them but its a great deal...homer haven is a wonderful place
i never said its a great deal. we wont know how great or bad the deal is a few years. but to suggest that you know these prospects arent as good as the guys the phils gave up is insane.
you dont know any better than my shaft knows. you might read in baseball america that some wrriter that saw taylor play 1 game is alsobbering on him. amazing. all of these guys are wildcards. s
i dont care whos suggesting it....its beyond ridiculous
they wouldnt have traded for halladay if they couldnt have moved lee or blanton sure...but it had nothing to do with getting prospects that was a by product of trading lee but not the reason they did it...they couldnt move blanton...
i mean i know amaro is dumb but i cant even believe hed be that stupid to only have done all this because of those prospects
and i dont even care because if they had gotten lee and halladay karma would have sunk them...im speaking from an on paper perspective and for all the people that are wondering why you wouldnt keep lee and halladay for one year to go all out for a series...and if the reason youre not going hard for a world series in 2010 is those mariner prospects then thats a fireable offense
if its because of money which everyone knows it is then thats pretty sad too..but a hell of a lot more tolerable than some guys named aumont and gillies
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 01:23:06 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 12:55:11 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 12:29:31 PM
QuoteScouts we surveyed were split on whether the prospects exiting (Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis d'Arnaud) have a higher ceiling than the prospects arriving (Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and J.C. Ramirez). But the whole group is "a bunch of legit prospects," said one NL scout. "They're not just throwing in a bunch of names to make this look good."
So while the Phillies still have bullpen issues to address, "I like this deal a lot for the Phillies, long-term and short-term," said an AL scout. "They got the best pitcher in the game right now. And they got a couple of guys from Seattle [Aumont and Gillies] I'm surprised they could get."
from stark
so....with all the people you talked to igy and all the scouting youve done, do you have a counter?
i hate it when loud mouth idiot fans act like they know anything about minor leagues. no ones anything. its a farging guesswork game.
knapp donald carrasco marson were "legit" prospects...and we all know how bad the phils raped cleveland...now the phils had the same thing done to them but its a great deal...homer haven is a wonderful place
i never said its a great deal. we wont know how great or bad the deal is a few years. but to suggest that you know these prospects arent as good as the guys the phils gave up is insane.
you dont know any better than my shaft knows. you might read in baseball america that some wrriter that saw taylor play 1 game is alsobbering on him. amazing. all of these guys are wildcards. s
there isnt anyone on the planet that doesnt have the phillie prospects rated way higher than the mariner ones...no one...none...zero...zilch...like i said everyone is putting aumont and gillies as slightly less of a package than what the phils gave for lee last summer...now we all laughed our asses off at cleveland last year you have to not be homerish and call it as you see it now and say the phils were stupid
well you dont have to...but you sound like jay talking about the eagles if you dont
i know what the "experts" have said it but it means nothing. youre going to have to trust rube that he got these guys because he knows theyre gonna be studs. its all you can do. and so no matter how you spin it, the verdict on this trade wont come down for a few years.
and they did the trade not for the mariner prospects, but to have a top of the rotation starter for the next 4 years. they thought halladay would be cheaper than lee. they were willing to give up drabek, taylor and d'mickface to get him. then, knowing they needed to replenish the farm system and thinking they can win the ws without lee, traded him to seattle to get 3 guys they really valued highly.
would i have traded lee? no. i roll the dice and go with all 3 for this year and collect my 2 first round picks next year via lee leaving. but this move isnt a lateral move. for the next 2 years they are now slightly better than they were before. if they win the world series this year or next year, the struggles that could arise in 13, 14, 15 will be fine. if they dont, then amaro will get run out of town and this decision will be his undoing.
but you cant think about 12, 13, etc. this move makes them better for 10 and 11. their window is 10 and 11. i get the feeling people dont like the phils putting an essential end date on this run but its a realistic approach.
If anyone wants to read the state of the farm system per Jayson Stark and the co-editor of baseball america:
http://www.philaphans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99319
Stark pretty much reiterates what most have been saying in that it's far less about the financial aspect of it than the prospect angle because they could have shed $9 million easily. You can not like who they got back all you want but that's the reality of the situation.
At this point I'd much rather see a Halladay/Lee combo for an entire year than trying to upgrade the bullpen, etc. Pull up some minor leaguers like basticho and Escalona and see what they can do for substantially less. Halladay and Lee would give you 60-70 starts between them with 50 or so being quality starts and about 35-40 wins between them. Would you really need an "upgraded" bullpen then?
Oh well. That's why I think this trade will always be bittersweet, because I can't get out of my head what might have been (even if the farm may have then been depleted).
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 01:40:37 PM
to have a top of the rotation starter for the next 4 years.
they have this even if they keep lee for a year
So the Phillies win the WS or go back to it and lose a close one in 2010.
Does Cliff Lee look here to sign as a FA? LOL
physical failure was a false rumor.
5pm presser
lee is going to go the highest bidder.
him pitching well and doing so in the postseason should he have stayed here would have sent his price to santana/cc area. the phills saved, what, 5 mil per year by getting halladay? and they have roy for just 4 years, not lee for 6 or 7. thats the logic behind the move.
again, this move makes them better for 10 and 11. the lee moves saves some kind of face on the farm system and how effective that trade is will be determined in the playoffs should happ or blanton not be able to pitch quality games and when these prospects eventually pan out.
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 01:40:37 PM
i know what the "experts" have said it but it means nothing. youre going to have to trust rube that he got these guys because he knows theyre gonna be studs. its all you can do. and so no matter how you spin it, the verdict on this trade wont come down for a few years.
I don't think you have to wait a few years, if they win a WS in the next year or two with Halladay being a horse its a win.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on December 16, 2009, 03:06:30 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 01:40:37 PM
i know what the "experts" have said it but it means nothing. youre going to have to trust rube that he got these guys because he knows theyre gonna be studs. its all you can do. and so no matter how you spin it, the verdict on this trade wont come down for a few years.
I don't think you have to wait a few years, if they win a WS in the next year or two with Halladay being a horse its a win.
exactly...however if they just miss out in 2010 like they did in 2009 the organization is going to have a lot of explaining to do as to why they didnt go with lee for a year.....and telling the fans that "well at least we have aumont and gillies" isnt going to cut it
and god forbid they dont go anywhere cause hamels continues to be a bitch and they are left with no number 2 then all hell is gonna break lose
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 02:55:01 PM
lee is going to go the highest bidder.
him pitching well and doing so in the postseason should he have stayed here would have sent his price to santana/cc area. the phills saved, what, 5 mil per year by getting halladay? and they have roy for just 4 years, not lee for 6 or 7. thats the logic behind the move.
you just dont get it and never will...nowhere did anyone say they should have signed lee long term
If Cole comes back and is the pitcher he can be, losing Lee isn't nearly as big of a deal.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 03:12:37 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on December 16, 2009, 03:06:30 PM
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 01:40:37 PM
i know what the "experts" have said it but it means nothing. youre going to have to trust rube that he got these guys because he knows theyre gonna be studs. its all you can do. and so no matter how you spin it, the verdict on this trade wont come down for a few years.
I don't think you have to wait a few years, if they win a WS in the next year or two with Halladay being a horse its a win.
exactly...however if they just miss out in 2010 like they did in 2009 the organization is going to have a lot of explaining to do as to why they didnt go with lee for a year.....and telling the fans that "well at least we have aumont and gillies" isnt going to cut it
and god forbid they dont go anywhere cause hamels continues to be a bitch and they are left with no number 2 then all hell is gonna break lose
Quote from: MDS on December 16, 2009, 02:55:01 PM
lee is going to go the highest bidder.
him pitching well and doing so in the postseason should he have stayed here would have sent his price to santana/cc area. the phills saved, what, 5 mil per year by getting halladay? and they have roy for just 4 years, not lee for 6 or 7. thats the logic behind the move.
you just dont get it and never will...nowhere did anyone say they should have signed lee long term
yo girl pg made a crack, i responded.
jesus dook we essentially agree youre just lookin for an agrument. its worth it if they win the ws, awful if they dont. no middle ground.
Halladay takes Lee's #34 too. Already selling jerseys on Phillies.com...
(http://enrico.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451af4b69e20128765c6203970c-pi)
It's been said before but Ruben Amaro might be the smuggest motherfarger on Earth. Someone needs to tell that dick straight to his face that the Phillies would have been better off with Lee & Halladay together than they will be without Lee. Too bad the limpdick bitches masquerading as reporters won't.
Quote from: Rome on December 16, 2009, 05:37:51 PM
Someone needs to tell that dick straight to his face that the Phillies would have been better off with Lee & Halladay together than they will be without Lee.
didnt you hear aumont and gillies were to good to pass up
Yeah, in between fits of uncontrolled laughter, I heard the Seattle GM mention it.
they just interviewed halladay at the sixer game....hes all alone up in a box and ryan howard is down at courtside in mcnabbs seats
im pretty sure roys gonna fit in with blanton, madson, lidge and the other rednecks. he aint gonna sit courtside at no game when there be a box seat
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 16, 2009, 07:12:25 PM
Quote from: Rome on December 16, 2009, 05:37:51 PM
Someone needs to tell that dick straight to his face that the Phillies would have been better off with Lee & Halladay together than they will be without Lee.
didnt you hear aumont and gillies were to good to pass up
lol
what did you want
all 3? you and everyone else, dipshtein. if they win the ws anyway its a moot point. if these guys turn out to be good then amaro is right. if they dont win and these guys blow and drabek is god then amaro is toast. stop being such a douche all the time, its cute, but its not as cute asyour other schitcks
Quote from: Rome on December 16, 2009, 05:37:51 PMIt's been said before but Ruben Amaro might be the smuggest motherfarger on Earth.
How about the way he started that press conference off. "Congratulations to us." ha
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091216/capt.27b1f143c4ce4aa8bd97955eb73e2e5e.phillies_halladay_lee_trades_baseball_px109.jpg) (http://media.philly.com/images/121609-roy-halladay-4002.jpg)
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/e2/fullj.91da1e7d2f37d6018cfdee594fc94a0e/91da1e7d2f37d6018cfdee594fc94a0e-getty-92484307dh0488_roy_halladay.jpg)
Quote from: BigEd76 on December 16, 2009, 09:27:50 PM
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/e2/fullj.91da1e7d2f37d6018cfdee594fc94a0e/91da1e7d2f37d6018cfdee594fc94a0e-getty-92484307dh0488_roy_halladay.jpg)
hit, hit
No Hitter, Hit.
:D
Amaro is a prick face.
Montgomery on 97.5: "we'd lose money; we are losing money" with a 140M payroll
Prick Face: "could have afforded both"
How is it possible that they're still the same penny-pinching corksuckers despite spending 140 million on payroll?
I'm not even kidding either.
"We're losing money..." :boom
God, the very words strung together make me want to punch a hole in something.
lol, only in Philly....they get the best pitcher in baseball and everyone whines and complains.
boo farging hoo. All of you.
PG shh. let us be miserable in peace.
in all seriousness were right back where we started. we still only win 2 world series games. actually, maybe less cuz we still don't have a bullpen.
oh, and we no longer have our top pitching prospect or one of the guys who might address one of 3 outfield positions that need to be in 2011.
i think alot of us feel like a new toy has been taken away.
and some of the ones we opened but didn't get to play with yet.
but don't realize whats inside the big one thats still wrapped.
or i need to stop drinking jager.
rubins a flag
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on December 16, 2009, 10:24:53 PM
Montgomery on 97.5: "we'd lose money; we are losing money" with a 140M payroll
but...but...its not about money...its about some middling prospects
i dont care about the deal either way...all im saying is be honest and call it what it was...a salary dump
that said LBI is spot on...the team is not any better than last year and arguably worse...now that doesnt mean they cant win the world series because they were close last year...and maybe this year they get a few extra brakes or they get to play a tampa again in the WS...but still the halladay deal is nothing to get excited about...the team probably improved their number 1 pitcher spot in a very small way but overall the team isnt significantly better
Quote from: LBIggle on December 17, 2009, 03:06:40 AM
in all seriousness were right back where we started. we still only win 2 world series games. actually, maybe less cuz we still don't have a bullpen.
i didn't realize that Cole Hamels and Brad Lidge will be as bad as they were last year...good to know
They're worse..duh
yeah and maybe the bullpen completely blows this year...and ja happ is in bethlehem at the all start break
people have career years and people bomb out...some people get better and some get worse...in the end it all equals out...and i see nothing in either direction that blatantly says the phillies are a different team than last year
still the team to beat in the nl and the only team i think that will make a serious run against them would be the cards, especially if they lock up holliday
braves are +/- 3 games of the phils
All I can say at this point is that Ruben better know he is on a short leash with the fans at this point. If it becomes abundantly clear that another top flight starter would put this team over the top as in the World Series this past year, then hopefully he's ready for people calling for his head. Not many teams, especially in the NL, can win two World Series in a relatively short time span. Hopefully this doesn't compromise that.
If Hamels develops a professional demeanor then this trade might not be that big of a deal. But what made Lee such a fan favorite in so short of a time was that he had that professional demeanor and was all business on the mound. You knew what you were going to get with him. Hamels, at this point in the career, not so much.
I am not making excuses for Cole because he does seem like a Cali bitch boy, but if I remember correctly he said coming into the season he didn't prepare properly. He said that he spent too much of the off season doing appearances and such.
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 17, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
braves are +/- 3 games of the phils
alrighty $50 spot on the phils winning the nl east this year. lets go you flag.
give me the braves +3 games
hello fantasy baseball $
Their pitching is going to be pretty damn good if they stay healthy, but their offense is going to be just awful.
problem is ill double or nothing him for the playoffs or some eagles bet or something and never see a dime.
That's because he bets like a fag.
Bet like a man you rich money-loving punk ass funhole.
Quote from: SunMo on December 17, 2009, 08:49:21 AM
Quote from: LBIggle on December 17, 2009, 03:06:40 AM
in all seriousness were right back where we started. we still only win 2 world series games. actually, maybe less cuz we still don't have a bullpen.
i didn't realize that Cole Hamels and Brad Lidge will be as bad as they were last year...good to know
they've been bad for as long as they've been good. its always been what have you done for me lately and they more then shtein the bed last year. i love putting the hopes of the entire season on a head case, and a mental midget. especially when they could've kept lee to offset that in the event they don't "return to form". farg those draft picks.. there's going to be a lull no matter what prospects they got, its inevitable.. have a lull with a couple of rings on your finger.
Quote"As long as it says 'Phillies' on the front," he said, "I don't care what's on the back.
Either this guy is a complete fraud or I just found my newest mancrush.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4753045
Lee sounds pissed
the more time shady amaro spends in the league as a GM the more stories like this are gonna come out
Pissed or sad? He seemed like a nice guy that wanted to be here, but Amaro wanted Halladay more (plus his insistence on hitting FA didn't help his cause)...
hes pissed because shady two faced him numerous times and then has continously lied about what went down since the trade
lee has said he cant blame them for wanting the best pitcher in the game
Lee is a professional. He'll be missed. If you thought Banner was a tightwad in trying to balance a 53 man roster then the Phils brass is surmounting that this year with their artificially imposed cap. 5th largest market in the country plus a World Series Championship and a repeat appearance last year yet they are still concerned about having one year where they may have to eat a huge payroll. Again, I don't know their finances well but as a fan I have a hard time not coming to the conclusion that they should have taken that risk.
I heard Beaner on XM yesterday and he repeatedly said he wished he could have both Lee & Halladay on the team.
What I don't understand is why no one, not even national guys, are drilling him about letting Lee go supposedly to replenish the farm system when it would have been restocked using the draft picks they would have gotten if Lee left for free agency. And no one has blasted him for not going for it or at least asking if ownership gave him the gas face over going beyond their budget for a shot at the title.
Quote from: Eaglez on December 18, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
Lee is a professional. He'll be missed. If you thought Banner was a tightwad in trying to balance a 53 man roster then the Phils brass is surmounting that this year with their artificially imposed cap. 5th largest market in the country plus a World Series Championship and a repeat appearance last year yet they are still concerned about having one year where they may have to eat a huge payroll. Again, I don't know their finances well but as a fan I have a hard time not coming to the conclusion that they should have taken that risk.
While I agree its hard to understand why they wouldnt go over their budget, they must have a pretty damn good explanation thats beyond our thought. The thing is the phillies were in over their head and overpaid when they didnt really have to for Ibanzez, Moyer and Polanco. It appears they jammed themselves or they probably would have bit the bullet and paid for Lee and Halladay to pitch together
It sucks that they could have had both, and hearing Lee today say what he said hurts even more--true or not...but its still hard to be so upset when the Phillies just got the best pitcher in baseball
for the 1,000th time they traded lee to get prospects. they chose lee over halladay because he was going to go for a cheaper, shorter deal.
getting halladay was great. trading lee for 3 guys who might or might not pan out was stupid. youre better off with lee and taking the 2 picks that come with him leaving. its a conservative, somewhat overtly argonant move by amaro but that is his bread and butter.
I'm sure they have dead money (I'm not sure if Eaton comes off the books this year, I think they still owe Jenkins money, is Thome finally off the books?) and of course Moyer being paid 8 million this year. I was getting over it until the Cliff Lee interview on ESPN, and then it made me think of what could have been. Getting Halladay, with his tremendous work ethic, for 4 years at below market value while he's still in his prime for a team that has all the pieces to contend in the NL for the next few years is a great move and shouldn't be downplayed. I'm just not satisfied with the front office's explanation because it seems to be somewhat of a moving target and pretty dismissive of all other alternatives to keep both Halladay and Lee for at least a year.
The Phils picked up Rollins' $8.5M option for 2011 today
Completely unnecessary at this point and in turn, retarded.
lol @ you
if they extneded jrol past 11 it would be a mistake but 11 is the last year for this group and jimmy IS this group. at worst hes a halfway decent 7 hitter and gives you great defense at ss.
stop instigating you loser.
The stupid part is picking it up when they apparently could have waited till next offseason.
Shocking you missed the blatantly obvious point though. Your gonna be a great sports writer!
its was a forgone conclusion that they were gonna pick it up and its a sign of good faith. if jimmy tears his acl and can never play again they can buy him out or im sure amaro will get some kind of exception for the 8 mil
stop worrying about black people getting paid cash money you dork
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 18, 2009, 10:40:14 AM
the more time shady amaro spends in the league as a GM the more stories like this are gonna come out
Yep.
That dude is a jerkoff.
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 18, 2009, 01:39:52 PM
Completely unnecessary at this point and in turn, retarded.
Tell the truth, you'd be happy with Rafael Belliard right now over Jimmy Rollins.
Quote from: MDS on December 18, 2009, 02:18:03 PM
its was a forgone conclusion that they were gonna pick it up and its a sign of good faith. if jimmy tears his acl and can never play again they can buy him out or im sure amaro will get some kind of exception for the 8 mil
stop worrying about black people getting paid cash money you dork
listen if Rollins gets hurt there is less than a 0 % chance that he will let them buy him out as opposed to collecting the 8.5 million he is owed.
what are the odds that hes going to have a career ending injury
It doesn't have to be a career ender just an injury that will effect his 2011 play and the odds are good enough not to risk it by pointlessly excercising the option almost a year ahead of time.
Quote from: reese125 on December 18, 2009, 01:00:49 PM
Quote from: Eaglez on December 18, 2009, 12:17:23 PM
Lee is a professional. He'll be missed. If you thought Banner was a tightwad in trying to balance a 53 man roster then the Phils brass is surmounting that this year with their artificially imposed cap. 5th largest market in the country plus a World Series Championship and a repeat appearance last year yet they are still concerned about having one year where they may have to eat a huge payroll. Again, I don't know their finances well but as a fan I have a hard time not coming to the conclusion that they should have taken that risk.
While I agree its hard to understand why they wouldnt go over their budget, they must have a pretty damn good explanation thats beyond our thought.
not really...they have a 140 number they werent going over...giles has said in interviews that even at the 140 number they are losing money..now whether you believe they are losing money or not the fact is it was a salary dump...why do you think toronto had to include six mil in cash in the halladay deal
Rollins re-upping is the best news I've heard about this team all offseason. Not because Beane is upset over it but because it's the first sound baseball decision they've made that didn't come with some sort of pain attached to it.
what pain is there in getting the best pitcher in baseball other than being a miserable old coot
Quote from: MDS on December 17, 2009, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 17, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
braves are +/- 3 games of the phils
alrighty $50 spot on the phils winning the nl east this year. lets go you flag.
Igy you might as well give him the money now.
Any chance the Braves got lucky and got within three just went out the window.
They traded Javier Vasquez for Melky farging Cabrera hahahahah.
I guess that is the only way they could keep Derek Lowe, eh?
lol at Vazquez going back to NYC.
lol at that fag Melky being in the division now.
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 22, 2009, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: MDS on December 17, 2009, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 17, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
braves are +/- 3 games of the phils
alrighty $50 spot on the phils winning the nl east this year. lets go you flag.
Igy you might as well give him the money now.
Any chance the Braves got lucky and got within three just went out the window.
They traded Javier Vasquez for Melky farging Cabrera hahahahah.
not that i still wont do it but we havent agreed on anything
tommy hanson = nl cy young
i thought we did you little Hoyda
dont back down now
i dont see anywhere where we laid out and agreed to exact terms
but as long as i have the braves +3 im in
ITS ON
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/news/story?id=4765074
cant not love that as long as it doesnt hinder them from long terming werth or choke or whatever
question is why does rodney want to come somewhere where he could very likely be a 7th inning guy. unless they are pushing hard cause lidge isnt going to be healthy anytime soon.
do it
Two first names! Sign him!
Halladay took out a full-page ad in the Toronto Sun to thank the Jays fans (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/baseball/2009/12/22/12235981-sun.html)
That was a remarkably horrible trade for the Braves. No justification for it.
rumblings of a 2/$12 offer for rodney. amaro of course saying nothing will be addressed until after christmas.
They need to do something about the pen and Rodney is better than most of the scrap floating around out there, but I don't like those #s.
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 23, 2009, 12:41:11 AM
That was a remarkably horrible trade for the Braves. No justification for it.
The Yankees just got much stronger in the rotation and lost nothing in the process.
Gee... if only "our" GM had the sense to do something similar.
Quote from: Rome on December 23, 2009, 08:10:23 AM
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 23, 2009, 12:41:11 AM
That was a remarkably horrible trade for the Braves. No justification for it.
The Yankees just got much stronger in the rotation and lost nothing in the process.
Gee... if only "our" GM had the sense to do something similar.
shtein WILL hit the fan if they get back to the series and have to throw out happ and blanton vs burnett/vaquez/pettite or lackey/lester/matuzaka/bucholz in games three and four
rodney btw would be an amazing pick up...he would be a big time upgrade in the 7/8 inning and excellent insurance for another lidge implosion...you have to make that move
If they actually went out and signed Rodney I'd be very happy. In fact, if that was their intention all along (meaning Rodney & Halladay versus Lee & Rodney) then I could almost buy the Lee for prospects nonsense.
They won't, though. They'll go the plug and pray route. Just wait...
Quote from: ice grillin you on December 23, 2009, 09:07:54 AM
Quote from: Rome on December 23, 2009, 08:10:23 AM
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on December 23, 2009, 12:41:11 AM
That was a remarkably horrible trade for the Braves. No justification for it.
The Yankees just got much stronger in the rotation and lost nothing in the process.
Gee... if only "our" GM had the sense to do something similar.
shtein WILL hit the fan if they get back to the series and have to throw out happ and blanton vs burnett/vaquez/pettite or lackey/lester/matuzaka/bucholz in games three and four
lol fool
halladay goes 1, 4, 7
nicole goes 2, 6
is vazquez really that much better than happ? should happ not go kendrick on us...
i love how its just automatic that someone is going to go 1, 4, 7 in a ws and be fine even tho hes never pitched a postseason inning in his entire career
vazquez is a thousand times better than happ
shtein they wouldnt even pitch happ over pedro this year...now hes as good as vasquez...got it
and cole sucks until proven otherwise
lol at your ws rotation
halladay
cole
thats it...thats the list
double lol
if they are gonna get to the series cole is going to be cole from 08
they arent there unless he is so you might as well accept it as fact. if it dont happen then who cares its over.
and lol @ vazquez. career 4.19 era. he was $ last year in the nl on a bad team with no pressure. im sure hell be great getting back to the AL. hes an average starter just like happ is.
keep hating on your on squad thats made 2 ws in a row.
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?What-A-Relief-Could-Phillies-Be-Ready-to=1&blockID=107196&feedID=704
pleasenobaez
pleasenobaez
pleasenobaez
pleasenobaez
pleasenobaez
pleasenobaez
they were talking about him getting a tryout contract like Benson got.
The True MVP of the 00's
Editor's note: Over the past two weeks on ESPN.com, writers and editors have been looking back at the past decade in baseball -- and looking ahead to the future. On Wednesday, Dave Cameron of FanGraphs identifies baseball's most valuable player at the close of the aughts.
Albert Pujols' greatness is unquestioned. He won his second consecutive National League MVP award this year (his third overall), and this time around, he took home every first-place vote. He's finished in the top four in MVP voting in eight of the nine years he's been in the majors, and he hasn't even turned 30. Yet there is another National League player who is just as valuable, if not more so, and receives none of the accolades. Seriously.
Chase Utley, the Phillies' star second baseman, has never finished higher than seventh in the MVP voting since he arrived in Philadelphia, but has contributed more bang for the buck than any other player in baseball. At FanGraphs, we have a metric that encompasses a player's total contribution on the field, called Wins Above Replacement. WAR, as it is often abbreviated, combines a player's value at the plate and in the field to give a better overall picture of a player's worth. (In layman's terms, "replacement," as defined by stat guru Tom Tango, represents "the talent level for which you would pay the minimum salary on the open market, or for which you can obtain at minimal cost in a trade." Mike Sweeney, who signed a minor league deal in early 2009 and produced 0.2 WAR for the Mariners, is a good example of a replacement-level player.)
By putting all players against a similar baseline, we can compare their value side by side, pitting defensive wizards against burly sluggers and finding out who actually contributes more to helping their team win. Since entering the league in 2005, Utley has added 37.9 wins above what a league minimum player would have provided, which is a tremendous total that represents his offensive prowess and Gold Glove skills at second base. Middle infielders who can hit as well as Utley are rare breeds indeed, and when you factor in his incredible baserunning -- 23-for-23 in stolen bases last year! -- he grades out as the most complete player in baseball. From that Wins Above Replacement total, we can use a wins-to-dollars conversion based on how teams have historically valued wins in the free-agent market on a yearly basis. Considering how good Utley has been since the Phillies gave him the second-base job, his performance on the field has been worth $154 million. That's about $31 million a year in production.
Top Value Since 2005
Player WAR Value Salary Net
Chase Utley 37.9 $154M $25M $129M
David Wright 29.6 $119M $14M $105M
Hanley Ramirez 24.9 $106M $7M $99M
Grady Sizemore 27.3 $108M $10M $98M
Albert Pujols 40.4 $164M $66M $98M
In exchange for that performance, the Phillies have paid Utley a meager $25 million in salary, leaving $129 million in surplus value. Pujols has been ever so slightly better on the field, producing 40.4 wins and $164 million in raw value, but St. Louis has paid him $66 million over the past five years. The $41 million difference in salary more than outweighs the 2.5 difference in wins produced on the field, allowing the Phillies to extract more value from Utley than St. Louis got from its superstar. And remember, Utley didn't land a permanent job in the majors until 2005. He has had 2,269 fewer plate appearances to work with, and still managed to get himself within shouting distance of Pujols' value for the decade. Once you adjust for games played, in fact, Utley grades out slightly higher. Utley has produced a net value of just over $35,000 per plate appearance, compared to $28,000 per trip to the plate for Pujols. While Utley hasn't been at the top of the game for quite as long, once you account for salary, he's been the most valuable player in baseball since his arrival in the big leagues.
The difference may only grow over the next few seasons. Pujols has two years remaining on the seven-year, $100 million contract he signed in 2004, but you have to believe that the Cardinals will give him a massive extension before his contract expires. He is due $16 million in each of the next two years, and the average annual salary of his next deal will surely exceed that. Utley, meanwhile, is under contract through 2013 at $15 million per year -- less than half of what he's worth on an annual basis. He may not have the trophies or the gaudy home run totals of players like Pujols or Alex Rodriguez, but Chase Utley is right there with the very best players in the game. When you factor in that the Phillies have him under contract at rates that don't even come close to his true value, he rises above the rest as the real Most Valuable Player in baseball.
VORP
GRIT
Danys Baez sucks.
Rodney wants $6M? Damn...
[author=jihadist monk]
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/didntread4gd.gif)
AIDS
Rodney is a Angels. Thank god. 2/11 mil.
Dude blows.
Hefty price tag.
And it should be "Rodney is an Angel"
lol
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/homepage/20091223_Phillies_talking_to_MacDougal__agent_says.html
Wild as hell
Jerome
lol @ that article
i scrolled down it and saw the value salary net part and thats all i needed to see
loser fake wanna be gms with their calculators. go away.
Look at Rodney's stats and look beyond the save percentage. He was not good last year. His stuff is fine and I wouldn't have had an issue getting him for 2 yr / 7.5 mil or something like that, but he's not the answer at 2 yr / 12 mil. Relievers are all pretty much a crapshoot anyway.
if they were really going to put money into the bullpen they would've signed hoe cheese.
Not sure he realizes that no one wants him to be a starter.
37 out of 38 saves sucks. I mean, just look at that BABIP against! That's what REALLY counts!!
Like the save is any more of a real statistic than BABIP. That's only meant what it currently means since what, the '70s?
Can't tell if that's sarcasm.
Hope so.
The save is a phony stat. The rules of it are convoluted and arbitrary. Why three runs, and not two or four? Why can you get one for pitching the last three innings of a blowout, even if you suck? Why don't middle relievers get a stat like that? A bad pitcher can easily end up with more saves (and a higher save %) than a better pitcher under the current rules, because a team chooses when and if to put a certain pitcher into a save situation.
The purpose of the save stat to to try to quantify how well a closer is contributing to his team. It's really in the same exact spirit as any of those sabermetrics stats with acronym names. It's just been around longer and people are more used to it.
Ho Chi Mihn finding another way to get his money (http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/23/chan-ho-park-chad-kreuter-pitcher-catcher-los-angeles-dodgers-phillies-philadelphia-baseball-lawsuit/)
Quote from: Rome on December 23, 2009, 07:40:03 PM
37 out of 38 saves sucks. I mean, just look at that BABIP against! That's what REALLY counts!!
Rome his numbers were not good last year. Do you think wins are significant for pitchers?
His ERA the last two years is 4.91 and 4.40. His K to walk ratio is absolutely pathetic and he gives up a million base runners.
Don't pretend he's a good closer, because he's not. He's had two below average years in a row.
Saves are like sabermetrics in no way, but thats funny. I do agree with you though, Rodney is teh suck.
For 2 years the $ means nothing. Stop worrying so much about what people make. Who cares. The Phillies have a massive payroll.
Shut the farg up retard you have no idea what you are talking about. The Phillies have a finite amount of money to spend and a retarded signing like that could harm their ability to trade for someone who actually will be relevent during the season or bring someone in like they did Pedro last year. They just traded Cliff Lee and gave up better prospects to get 6 million back from Toronto.
OBVIOUSLY money matters.
Jesus Christ dude this is just common sense.
im sorry that was mean
its years idiot, not $
and for the 100000th time if it was about the money they could have traded blanton. it was a little bit about the money but more about the misguided attempt to replenish the farm system.
pedro cost 1 mil, as will any 5th starter or random vet replacement they might think about getting. no idiotic signing will stop them from doing that.
having rodney hyptothetically on the books for next year is not a big deal. the phillies have no logical big FA signing to make any time soon. the big money will be spent on possibly long terming cole, werth and choke. 6 mil to rodney for 2 years isnt gonna hamper that being done, if it was ever going to be done.
the $ last year to moyer meant nothing, but its the year. giving 2 and and option to someone like him was stupid and now they are a bit crippled by it. it was the years. its always the years.
Right, because having to pay big bucks to a player who sucks and you signed 2 years ago hurts worse financially than paying big bucks to someone who sucks and you signed yesterday. Your logic is awesome!
Quote from: PhillyGirl on December 23, 2009, 09:23:37 PM
Ho Chi Mihn finding another way to get his money (http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/23/chan-ho-park-chad-kreuter-pitcher-catcher-los-angeles-dodgers-phillies-philadelphia-baseball-lawsuit/)
is this really the best opening they could come up with for that article?
QuoteFormer Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Chan Ho Park is suing the man who caught his balls
this thread is really painful....geniuses everywhere
i'm still trying to figure out how a guy who did his job successfully 37 out of 38 times supposedly sucks.
It's kinda like Cole Hamels getting 10 wins......
Quote from: Rome on December 24, 2009, 09:15:09 AM
i'm still trying to figure out how a guy who did his job successfully 37 out of 38 times supposedly sucks.
because two of the 37 saves the team was up by three runs?
who knows
no one is saying the guy is lee smith but hes 1000 times better than antonio basticho or kyle kendrick
its just shameful that money is still an issue with this team during the franchises all time most succesful period and at a time they should be going all out to win not nickel and diming
i think in roughly 27.8 percent of his save chances, he was lucky. in 34.3 percent one of his teammates saved his ass with a great play, and in the other 37.9 percent of them, god was on his side.
i think.
Rodney sucks because given how many people he strikes out, how many people he walks, and how many hits he gives up he is very unlikely to ever be a successful closer again.
yes, that's why the angels signed him to an 11 million dollar deal.
they gave him 11 million dollars to be brian fuentes' bullpen caddy.
Yes, if a team does somthing they mist be right and anything other than a polite clap in response is ignorant.
if only the phillies hired 18 year old community college students who have access to a calculator and baseball prospectus websites, the world would be such a better place
They apparently didn't need me to make the right call on Rodney.
if you ask me college kids should not be allowed on sports MB's - they ruin things and should be relagated to their WOW social networks.
Quote from: jihadist monk on December 24, 2009, 12:03:47 PM
They apparently didn't need me to make the right call on Rodney.
and you know it's the right call even before a single pitch is thrown is spring training ? can ya tell me tonight's winning lottery number too ?
please dont listen to mikey
hes purposely antagonistic, specifically when it comes to the monetary value of professional baseball players.
Quote from: MDS on December 24, 2009, 12:38:16 PM
please dont listen to mikey
hes purposely antagonistic, specifically when it comes to the monetary value of professional baseball players.
in other words he's an eskinare.
yes, but dumber and with a more inflated ego. if thats even possible.
Not at all. I use logic and reason in evaluating players so in reality you guys are much closer to Eskin than me.
jihadist - i have read enough of your posts to know your nose just grew 4inches with that last post.
lol @ 'evaluating' players
like youre a friggin scout. loser.
lololol @ logic and reason.
jesus...
People can disagree with his methods all you want but he's 100% right about Rodney. It's not even like he's throwing out win shares, vorp etc to analyze Rodney. K/BB ratio, hits per 9, and WHIP are incredibly straightforward statistics that DO offer ways to measure a pitcher's value.
It's like saying Juan Pierre is a good player because he hits for an acceptable average. Wins/save % etc are essentially meaningless when evaluating a pitcher or else you think Jamie Moyer had a good year last year and shouldn't have been pulled from the rotation because he was the teams win leader when the Phils yanked him.
He averages close to 9 K's per 9 IP. His hits allowed are less than his innings pitched. For his career.
But he sucks.
The Anatomy of the Halladay Deal (http://ow.ly/PlkU)
QuoteNOV. 17, 2008: Philadelphia
Ruben Amaro has been on the job roughly two weeks as GM of the reigning World Series champions, taking over from Pat Gillick. He wanders into president Dave Montgomery's office and, somewhere in the conversation, says: "You know, Roy Halladay is one player, if he ever came on the market, I really think we should take a run at."
As Pinellas County rivals with parks three miles apart in Florida, the Jays and Phillies play each other four or five times each spring.
"I've watched him for 10 years and he's pretty special," Amaro says. "What I like is that he can get ornery on the mound."
That article was excellent, Jay.
Thanks.
Quote from: Rome on December 24, 2009, 07:38:59 PM
He averages close to 9 K's per 9 IP. His hits allowed are less than his innings pitched. For his career.
but...but...but...he sucks...bring on kyle kendrick
Ok, ignore the fact that he allows 1.5 runners an inning.
BTW, I'm in igy if you want to give me the Phillies -3 over the Braves for $50.
Merry Christmas everyone.
Yeah I'll get it on that too if your up for it igy.
lol @ you actually paying out if you lose
bet me 50 the eagles win the superbowl you little douche. if i get my $ then we know you pay.
Quote from: MDS on December 24, 2009, 11:22:30 PM
lol @ you actually paying out if you lose
pretty much...i have more chance of getting a pack of smokes from munsons mother in a bet than that cranial lump paying even one dollar to me
Aww, still on my nuts.....It brings warmth to my heart on this christmas eve<3
Well I paid you for 10 Saints tickets 3 years ago so you know I'm good for it. Like I said, it's up to you but I'll take the Phillies -3.
Bruntlett signed with the Nats
not that it matters but i was looking at some shtein on mlb.com and saw that they have winter league stats on there...
Dom Brown is doing the opposite of tearing it up... 30 for 118, .229 avg, 2 2b, 2 3b, 2hr, 18rbi, 10bb, 27k, 0 sb, 2cs
The Second Coming!
dont most hitters struggle in the zona fall league? isnt it historically a massive pitchers league?
Quote from: MDS on December 30, 2009, 06:17:55 PM
slurp slurp slurp igys taint mmm slurp slurp
Fixed.
the AFL ended like two months ago
its early oct to mid nov.
yeah so why are you talking about it
i didnt bring it up, michael.
i just saw the stats and posted them, so farg yourself
no, you
http://today.sportingnews.com/sportingnewstoday/20091231?sub_id=BxAGbnFQpWrhW&folio=47#pg47
the phillies had the nl east locked up 2 years ago. our competition is the yankees and red sox. end.
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Finally-a-Phil-Phillies-Agree-to-Contrac=1&blockID=110293&feedID=704
not bad. said at the end of the article that the phils are offering eyre a minor league contract. i assume that's because of all those sexy bodies he had in his elbow and that if healthy, they would look to bring him back up to the bigs?
game 4 of the NLDS is on MLBN now as one of those all-time classic ones
Eyre and Ho Chi Mihn are gone.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/So_whats_next.html
^ kind of scary
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on January 06, 2010, 04:15:45 PM
^ kind of scary
Very.
QuoteWho does that leave? A few options: John Smoltz is one that the Phillies have been tied to earlier in the offseason. But interest from other teams could drive up the price. Ditto with Pedro Martinez. So how about Livan Hernandez, Braden Looper, Tim Redding or Eric Milton? No, we're not talking about Cy Young, but if the goal is to add depth and competition for the fifth starter's spot, this is the way Amaro could do it for relatively cheap.
uh, no on milton. i'd be ok with martinez next year but he'd have to be limited to 6 innings max per start because he seemed to wear down quickly in his 2 ws starts.
Scott Eyre retired
he was one of the most consistent arms in the pen last year, and especially in the post season. too bad. thanks for a good couple of years though. we'll always have 08 and those lose elbow bodies to remember you by.
Not surprising. He said he would only pitch for the Phils, so when they offered him the minor league deal, the writing was on the wall.
Lets hope basticho and/or Escalona can pick it up.
Mathieson = the future.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on January 07, 2010, 10:19:56 PM
Scott Eyre retired
Maybe they'll buy him a belt as a retirement gift. I'll miss him pulling up his pants after every pitch.
QuoteThe Further Adventures Of Pat "The Bat" Burrell
Through a friend of a friend of a friend who worked for the Phillies at one point, here it goes.
The Fightins' are on the road, and Pat brings a young lady back to his room, and they begin sexytime. At some point, Pat decides to turn her over and put it in her ass.
As he's plowing her, he begins to scream, and I quote, "You're Hoyda is jealous! You're Hoyda is jealous!", waking up half the floor.
LMAO
beautiful
:-D :-D :-D
I know a girl who farged Pat Burrell and she had a similar story to that.
burrell pulls some top quality tail so the only way you know her is the same way munson knows miss teen delaware.......by going through their garbage
I didn't farg her. She's a sister of someone I know. Wouldn't call him a friend necessarily, but we talk now and then.
After Burrell farged her, he said "You just got farged by Pat Burrell" and walked out of the room.
pat burrell is like the chuck norris of sex.
Quote from: King Cole on January 08, 2010, 04:35:19 PM
I didn't farg her. She's a sister of someone I know. Wouldn't call him a friend necessarily, but we talk now and then.
After Burrell farged her, he said "You just got farged by Pat Burrell" and walked out of the room.
omg. LMFAO
thats farging horrible, but omg. LOL
lolololol...thats hilarious
I want video.
Myers signed a 1-yr deal with the Wades to be a starter
how is it that you knew that before the guy who actually lives in houston?
yea Jay what's up with that
For some reason I actually had work to do today. A Friday when I was trying to be a slacker and I got bombarded.
But I knew this was gonna happen. They mentioned it awhile back and I was talking to my boy at work, huge Stros fan, and told him that any Phillie who hits the market will end up here.
Hello Pete Happy and Brett Myers.
Man, Ed Wade is really making things happen in Houston.
The circle of life - Seattle->Cleveland->Philadelphia->Houston
Quote from: King Cole on January 09, 2010, 02:03:32 AM
Man, Ed Wade is really making things happen in Houston.
Because he got Myers?
sarcasm alert!!
I guess I'm just too used to Cole being a complete and utter moron....can't tell if/when he's sarcastic because some of the shtein that comes from his mouth is as real as it gets.
yea, you cant really tell with cole. he might actually believe wade is building something. the mystery of him is the appeal, same goes for reese.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Harry_Kalas_widow_Phillies_in_dispute_over_Harry_the_Ks_restaurant_at_Citizens_Bank_Park.html
Wow. That would suck.
no, what sucks is that there are 2 sides so consumed with money that they are pissing all over the one common bond between the 2 of them.....harry k.
who cares its a friggin five year old awful restaurant
who eats at a restaurant at a baseball park
Drunks, they have potato water there
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Phillies-Charlie-Manuel-Weight-Loss-Part-1-81075282.html
Hide the women and children (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20100113_As_an_Astro__Myers_vows_to__stick_it__to_Phils.html)
:-D :-D farging Meyers. Ok, you bring it boy.
hope he didn't think the smack talk was bad when he was with the team. actually i hope he did. "beat that wiiiiife."
Phils will regret letting him go. The Astros got a helluva deal.
ha - this is great... http://dailyphiladelphian.com/2010/01/13/brett-myers-needs-to-stfu-on-his-way-to-the-astros/
QuoteCongratulations Brett Myers. You swindeled Eddie Wade and the Astros to guarantee you $5.1 million to pitch this year.
Myers agreed to a one year $3.1 million dollar deal for this season with a mutual option for $8 million next year with a $2 million buyout.
Your DailyPhiladelphian has always respected Myers' competitive nature and his athletic ability. However, his off field persona is not one to be emulated. yesterday, he down right pissed us off with the way he discussed the Phillies organization.
Myers said he will "stick it" to us every time he faces the Phillies lineup.
He also had some interesting comments about the way the team handled his domestic violence issues in 2006. (You know, the time when he allegedly used his wife as a punching bag on a Boston street corner.) He blames the Phillies for him never addressing the issue.
"It's tough, because we've wanted to come out and have a press conference, tell everybody, and set the record straight," Myers told the media yesterday. "We just haven't been able to do that. You just can't read everything. You've got to kind of live your life and play the game of baseball well."
OK, let's address both things separately here.
First, if Brett Myers really wanted to talk to the media, he would have. He could have held his own news conference at any point. The fact is, the Phillies advised him not to talk because Myers has been known to stick his foot in his mouth.
Oh, and here's another thought regarding that incident: Don't punch your wife in the first place, Brett!
As for the other statement he made, we'd love for him to "stick it" to the Phillies. Quite frankly, for someone who has a tendancy to give up the long ball, we don't think it's good to talk smack on a team that features Ryan Howard and Chase Utley and Jayson Werth and Raul Ibanez and the list goes on.
Brett, we can't wait for you to come back to Philly. The only thing that may save you from getting the Scott Rolen treatment is that at bat against CC Sabathia in the 2008 playoffs.
Enjoy Houston. You and Eddie Wade were meant for each other.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 13, 2010, 05:33:02 PM
Phils will regret letting him go. The Astros got a helluva deal.
agree. it would have made sense to let him walk if they had any type of pitching depth.......which they had for about 8 minutes and then traded it to seattle. they could have even ran him out there as their #2 behind halladay if cole's vadge doesn't stop secreting all over the place.
in what universe is brett myers a #2 starter much less on a team with aspirations for another wfc?
put on your tri-focals and read between the lines you miserable old farg tard.....it was more of a deep, penetrating stab into cole's muff than thinking myers is a #2.
He may not be a #2, but he's sure as shtein better than Pops Moyer and/or Kyle Kendrick.
he certainly could have either been a back of the rotation starter or helped solidify the pen. either way, there was definitely a use for him on the team. not really sure why the phils chose to let him walk. it's not like houston overpaid for him.
hes not worth the trouble
also who gives a shtein about 5th starter. do you people bitch and moan about 3rd string running backs. come on.
reno mahe says hi.
From the Phils MB:
QuoteEyre was on WIP this afternoon and said Lidge's elbow surgery was worse than Lidge thought it was going to be.
Great news!
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 13, 2010, 10:36:46 PM
reno mahe says hi.
like reno mahe ever made them win or lose a game.
the phillies will win the nl east. you do not need 5 starters in the playoffs. the phillies will win the world series if ryan howard, chase utley, jimmy rollins, jayson werth, roy halladay, cole hamels, ja happ/joe blanton and brad lidge do what they should do. everybody else is background space. sounds fascinating.
MLB network was listing available FA pitchers last night and Chin Meing Wang was listed as a possible one for the phils, they might have been talking out of their asses, but if he would take a cheap one year deal to re-establish himself i would definitely give him a shot.
Brad Lidge had arthroscopic surgery on his knee yesterday
perfect season, coming up
Quote from: SunMo on January 14, 2010, 12:19:36 PM
Brad Lidge had arthroscopic surgery on his knee yesterday
perfect season, coming up
good. i think it was his knee LAST year that hurt him too. He should have had it cleaned up before last season but he didn't do it. He did before the 08 season.
Worse than expected elbow damage/surgery & knee surgery.
Perfect season coming up!
Quote from: KDS on January 13, 2010, 11:27:00 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 13, 2010, 10:36:46 PM
reno mahe says hi.
like reno mahe ever made them win or lose a game.
you asked if people bitched about 3rd string running backs. we did. including you.
i win.
thats only because it was reno. no one complained about eldra buckley this year.
Quote from: SunMo on January 14, 2010, 08:35:27 AM
MLB network was listing available FA pitchers last night and Chin Meing Wang was listed as a possible one for the phils, they might have been talking out of their asses, but if he would take a cheap one year deal to re-establish himself i would definitely give him a shot.
brett myers would be a much better option!
He would. Shut yo face!
Brandon Duckworth is back with the Phils........minor league deal w/ no spring training invite
there's literally only 1 person on the planet that would find that remotely interesting. and that's brandon duckworth.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/Charlie-Manuel-Weight-Loss-Part-5-Precitions-81721042.html
Wow. Who on Earth gives a shtein about Charlie Manuel's diet? farg.
charlie manuel's heart and the guy who makes his overalls
Nope. Pretty sure don't give a farg either.
sentence fragment
Ass cheese.
this is an impressive picture though
(http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/410*307/Charlie-slim.jpg)
that's why I posted it....he looks completely different
You guys need some alone time with that picture? I mean, I don't want to interrupt. Weirdos.
Quote from: SunMo on January 15, 2010, 02:33:29 PM
this is an impressive picture though
(http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/images/410*307/Charlie-slim.jpg)
alomar sure gets around.
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 15, 2010, 10:34:49 AM
Brandon Duckworth is back with the Phils........minor league deal w/ no spring training invite
lol, he sucks.
He's no Brett Myers, that's for sure!
that's what his wife loves about him.
Don't you have to make celebrity like money to even afford the Nutri System diet?
Quote from: Don Ho on January 16, 2010, 05:22:18 PM
Don't you have to make celebrity like money to even afford the Nutri System diet?
no
yeah, it's like $300 a month. not cheap, but not overly expensive either. the gubment gives me $300 a month for food money and i've actually considered giving it a shot lately. not that i'm getting fat or anything but i'm finding that with age, i have to work harder to keep the weight off. i don't eat a lot of unhealthy food but i know that i'm not putting all of the right ingredients into my diet either and this might be an easy/lazy way for me to make sure i'm getting a properly balanced diet.
I did it a while back. Wanted to take off 10 lbs. It was easy as can be. I Lost the weight but wanted to lose more after so I stayed wiht it for a bit longer but then I got sick of the foods. They have a MUCH better menu of foods now though. I think this was like 7 or 8 years ago that I did it.
Harold Katz created Nutrisystem and destroyed the Sixers.
(http://enrico.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451af4b69e2012876ed1ab1970c-500wi)
there is really not much to like about shane victorino is there
other than he's the coolest motherfarger on earth?
no.
omg, that's great.
Durbin avoids arbitration with 1 year deal (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20100119_Phils__Durbin_reach_deal.html)
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Rollins-Cayman-Earthquake-OK-82075037.html
Quote from: Rome on January 19, 2010, 08:11:08 AM
other than he's the coolest motherfarger on earth?
no.
Only thing missing from that shot is Werth.
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Phillies-Thinking-Multiyear-Deal-for-Vic=1&blockID=160818&feedID=704
if vic comes on the cheap theres a chance they can long term him and werth, and perhaps have a little left over for choke dog.
PHillies worked out Eric Gagne? LOL
that would be really awesome if it was 2003.
So let me get this straight... a potential 10.25 million dollars for fat boy Joe Blanton or 9 mill for a guy who was unbeatable in the post season?
was pedro not available
i know rome is old but for 1000th time they traded cliff to get prospects back. it wasnt about the money. it was stupid, yes. but not a $ issue.
Quote from: KDS on January 20, 2010, 10:28:16 PM
i know rome is old but for 1000th time they traded cliff to get prospects back. it wasnt about the money. it was stupid, yes. but not a $ issue.
i disagree because eventually those prospects are going to want to be paid. then what?
Then they trade em for more prospects!
2 Gagne's, One City, 2 Teams. DO IT
Phils going to wear the powder blues during a road series with the Brewers...1970s Retro Weekend
May 14- 16 vs. Phillies
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Blantons_agent_Talks_are_progressing_on_multi-year_deal.html
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 20, 2010, 11:09:04 PM
Quote from: KDS on January 20, 2010, 10:28:16 PM
i know rome is old but for 1000th time they traded cliff to get prospects back. it wasnt about the money. it was stupid, yes. but not a $ issue.
i disagree because eventually those prospects are going to want to be paid. then what?
what
they wont have to pay them anything for like 10 years
Fat Joe signed for 3 Yrs./$24M.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Phillies_sign_Blanton_to_3-year_extension.html
Not bad.
Quote from: KDS on January 21, 2010, 11:49:49 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 20, 2010, 11:09:04 PM
Quote from: KDS on January 20, 2010, 10:28:16 PM
i know rome is old but for 1000th time they traded cliff to get prospects back. it wasnt about the money. it was stupid, yes. but not a $ issue.
i disagree because eventually those prospects are going to want to be paid. then what?
what
they wont have to pay them anything for like 10 years
lolz
Quote from: Rome on January 21, 2010, 03:01:42 PM
Fat Joe signed for 3 Yrs./$24M.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Phillies_sign_Blanton_to_3-year_extension.html
Not bad.
no, it's not. but i'd still rather have 1 yr of lee/halladay than 3 yrs of joey bagadonuts
Who wouldn't?
Blanton is a good pitcher, though, so getting him for $8M/year is pretty good especially considering what other bags of balls are getting paid around the Majors these days.
7 million this year, 8.5 the next 2 years.
helps the budget out this year
it's a solid move without a doubt. good baseball move, good fiscal move. it just seems like the phils are now taking the a similar approach as the eagles where they had a legit chance to improve the roster, if only for this year and make themselves ws front runners and they opted to go on the cheap and "invest" in future stability. granted, i guess i should give them the benefit of the doubt seeing as they made back-to-back ws appearances and won 1 of them, but they practically had a historic team assembled for about 10 minutes with lee and halladay on the roster at the same time and they didn't go all in. where the farg is jim fassell when you need him? oh yeah, he's coaching in that upstart football league.
the leftover money (about $2M-$3M) is going to be used on a reliever when the prices come down
3 year extension for vic, too. not sure of the $ but its probably around 4.5 or 5.
basically they have a 3 year window before its over. this much is obvious. get it done then you dorks.
is the ext on vic actually done or still in the works?
zolecki says its done or as good as done
i was off. 22 mil for the 3 years. solid deal.
i can't believe werth is still on this team after this year, but we'll see, which kind of sucks. i would have rather kept werth over victorino.
that's only because you think werth is dead sexy.
are you saying he isn't?
its one of werth or choke. thing is they have domonic brown and you can find a random leftfielder any day of the week. so werth might be gone.
unless werth is ibanez's replacement and brown moves into werth's spot
All of you shut yer yaps.
Werth = all star.
:)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4849646
why not
either a 5th starter or a pen arm.
Or a grandfather.
WORLD.
SERIES.
Contreras blows.
::)
Its a low risk scenario. Why would anyone be bothered about it?
I just wanted to see you post a rolly-eyed smiley face. Now my day is complete.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 22, 2010, 04:06:15 PM
I just wanted to see you post a rolly-eyed smiley face. Now my day is complete.
Oh your comment made me LOL. I was talking to Phreak.
Because he's zesty, low risk or not.
ok then so he wont make the team
no harm no foul
donovan rulez!
Kevin Kolb drulz!!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 22, 2010, 04:50:25 PM
Because he's zesty, low risk or not.
There's my Phreak! Mid season form.
Nice pickup. He's quite good when in the bullpen.
Quote from: Don Ho on January 22, 2010, 06:13:37 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 22, 2010, 04:50:25 PM
Because he's zesty, low risk or not.
There's my Phreak! Mid season form.
Just taking some batting practice with these zesty acquisitions, ala Jose Contreras.
We'll be in top shape by Memorial Day.
QuoteVictorino is one of only seven outfielders who have posted a batting average of at least .280 and an on-base percentage of at least .345 in each of the last four seasons. He is the second-youngest player on that list, behind only Baltimore's Nick Markakis. The others: Ichiro Suzuki, Magglio Ordonez, Matt Holliday, Brad Hawpe and Bobby Abreu.
Eight more players have achieved the feat in three of the last four seasons: Manny Ramirez, Carlos Lee, Raul Ibanez, Vladimir Guerrero, David DeJesus, Johnny Damon and Carl Crawford.
Over the last four seasons combined, Victorino has hit .289 with a .351 on-base percentage and .435 slugging percentage with 102 stolen bases. He is one of only 14 players who have stolen at least 90 bases while slugging over .420 during that time span. The only other outfielders who accomplished that feat are Grady Sizemore, Damon, Abreu, Crawford and Suzuki.
(http://www.worldhum.com/images/images2009/obama_shaka_gest_360.jpg)
Shaka Obama approves of the Shaney signing.
Quote from: Don Ho on January 23, 2010, 04:39:26 AM
QuoteVictorino is one of only seven outfielders who have posted a batting average of at least .280 and an on-base percentage of at least .345 in each of the last four seasons. He is the second-youngest player on that list, behind only Baltimore's Nick Markakis. The others: Ichiro Suzuki, Magglio Ordonez, Matt Holliday, Brad Hawpe and Bobby Abreu.
Eight more players have achieved the feat in three of the last four seasons: Manny Ramirez, Carlos Lee, Raul Ibanez, Vladimir Guerrero, David DeJesus, Johnny Damon and Carl Crawford.
Over the last four seasons combined, Victorino has hit .289 with a .351 on-base percentage and .435 slugging percentage with 102 stolen bases. He is one of only 14 players who have stolen at least 90 bases while slugging over .420 during that time span. The only other outfielders who accomplished that feat are Grady Sizemore, Damon, Abreu, Crawford and Suzuki.
all aboard the pineapple express. woot woot!
Get Abreu
Stairs is gone....just signed a minor league deal with the Padres. He supposedly lost over 30 pounds this offseason...
Ruiz signed a new 3-year deal w/ team option for 2013, so Werth and Moyer are the only players in the starting 8, starting rotation, setup role and closer role that aren't signed through 2011 yet...
werth needs to get inked. moyer, not so much.
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 23, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
Stairs is gone....just signed a minor league deal with the Padres. He supposedly lost over 30 pounds this offseason...
Slim Stairs? That's no fun.
i wish the phillies would worry more about 2010 and less about 2013
what would you like them to do. they have the best team in the nl for the 3rd straight season. if they dont fill in the spare parts by july 31 then bitch and moan.
Quote from: KDS on January 25, 2010, 12:04:17 PM
what would you like them to do. they have the best team in the nl for the 3rd straight season. if they dont fill in the spare parts by july 31 then bitch and moan.
Now don't go gettin' Phreak all worked up now. July 31 will be here soon enough.
lol
I have a headache already thinking about Moyer, Kendrick, Contreras, me, you, MDS, Havas, Joe Savery and whoever else auditions for the 5th spot.
Moyer will lose, and cry about it.
Kendrick will probably make it, and get shelled.
Contreras will probably be this year's Chan Ho in the BP, which should be OK. Gotta find a catchy nickname for him.
Tyler Walker is sweating his way south to the Nats
just an fyi the yankees 5th starter is either joba or chad guadin
the yanks won the series last year with both of those idiots in their starting rotation in the reg season, so if they're able to eliminate one of them then i'd say that's addition by subtraction.
1. Sabathia
2. Burnett
3. Pettitte
4. Vasquez
With a top four rotation like that who cares who pitches every fifth day?
They might win 110 games this year.
:boom
halladay, hamels, happ and blanton is pretty good, too.
i think youre forgetting they play in a weaker league and WON THE LAST 2 NL PENNANTS.
ill take jurrjenns - lowe - hanson - hudson and kawakami
of course you would....so I guess we know who'll round out Havas' team in the FFL, Braves this year; Mets last year.
you did last year too.
ps - phils claim INF Brian Bocock off waivers. yeah.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 26, 2010, 02:47:58 PM
of course you would....so I guess we know who'll round out Havas' team in the FFL, Braves this year; Mets last year.
mets every year...i dont care if the braves win...if the mets win i wanna die
and i didnt pick the braves last year i said theyd make a run...at the end of the year they were better than the phillies and now that HOF hanson has a year under his belt look out...in fact i bet he has a better year than halladay
you are just a terrible, terrible person.
easiest 50 bones i ever made.
espn sunday night baseball
May 2 - NY Mets at Philadelphia Phillies
May 16 - Philadelphia Phillies at Milwaukee Brewers
July 18 - Philadelphia Phillies at Chicago Cubs (6pm)
Quote from: KDS on January 26, 2010, 02:35:55 PM
halladay, hamels, happ and blanton is pretty good, too.
i think youre forgetting they play in a weaker league and WON THE LAST 2 NL PENNANTS.
hamels and happ are question marks heading into this season. i think hamels will turn it around performance wise but i'm more concerned about his think tank than anything else. i have absolutely no idea what to realistically expect from happ this year other than the fact that i seriously doubt he'll have the same type of success he did last year. he might have a pretty good year, but it won't be on the same level as last year.
i keep forgetting how great aj burnett is and how not old and washed up pettitte is.
every farging rotation except for the red sox has a bunch of question marks. the phillies' ones arent that big. can a guy who has been good for his entire career rebound from an awful season? and can a guy who has been great and improved at every step of the ladder solidify himself as a quality major league starter?
ill take those.
andy pettitte is washed up?
someone should tell him that. not the phillies, though. not after he beat their asses twice last fall.
Quote from: KDS on January 26, 2010, 05:51:10 PM
can a guy who has been good for his entire career rebound from an awful season? and can a guy who has been great and improved at every step of the ladder solidify himself as a quality major league starter?
happ was a .500 pitcher in the minors
and for the record i dont really have a problem with the phillies rotation...its fine...what i have a problem with is that it could have been the best the in the majors and they gave that away for no good reason
their bullpen is a much bigger problem tho
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 26, 2010, 07:32:32 PM
and for the record i dont really have a problem with the phillies rotation...its fine...what i have a problem with is that it could have been the best the in the majors and they gave that away for no good reason
this x infinity. as i said before, the phils had one of, if not the best 1-2 combo in ml history and decided that 2012, 2013 was somehow more important. this team is absolutely built to win right now. utley, werth, howard and victorino are in their prime. rolliins, while still very good, is probably on the decline. they have one of the finest defensive catchers in the league. yeah, the bullpen is still pretty messy but it also becomes much less important in a 7 game series when you have 2 pitchers who can take you at least 8 innings in 4 of those games.
it would be one thing if the phils didn't have a solid team on the field and wanted prospects who would eventually make them contenders. but they already are. they literally pissed away the opportunity to have an absolutely epic season in exchange for simply remaining (hopefully) competitive over the next 5-10 years. i swear, joe banner is running this farging team because this is gold standard 101. the only reason i'm not absolutely pissed about it is because the phils delivered when they got to the series by winning it all and then followed up with another appearance last year, which is far more than i can say about the eagles.
but farg me to hell and back if the phils aren't acting just like the eagles right now.
halladay might be great, hamels might return to form, happ might not have a sophomore slump, and blanton might continue pitching his 200 innings and winning 12-15 games.
then again, halladay might get crushed in the nl, hamels might continue his backsliding, happ might be a disaster, and blanton might continue pitching his 200 innings and winning 12-15 games.
whatever happens i don't see any way they can compete with the yankees rotation even if they get that far. and yeah, it's frustrating to think what might have been with lee.
It's January.
meat wallet season?
Always.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 26, 2010, 08:27:21 PM
It's January.
the eagles are done, the sixers are a mess, hockey sucks and your face belongs on the business end of a shotgun blast. what else is there to talk about?
How much cock baseball eats?
Quote from: Rome on January 26, 2010, 06:12:24 PM
andy pettitte is washed up?
someone should tell him that. not the phillies, though. not after he beat their asses twice last fall.
he didnt beat their asses. he pitched okay and went against hamels and pedro.
but igy's point is dead on, though, i think happ is much better than you want to give him credit for.
and the bullpen really isnt an issue. it might be a problem, and they will need to fix it at the deadline if need be. there really wasnt a move they could have made to improve the pen on paper.
meat wallet talk >>>>>>>>>>>>> baseball talk.
baseball talk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any meat wallet you've ever had
stop being hurtful.
Thome signed with the Twins to be a backup DH
he signed with a team with three good outfielders, an outstanding left-handed hitting designated hitter and a great left-handed hitting first baseman.
in other words, he signed with a team where he might get three at-bats a week if he's lucky.
sad.
that's basically the same role that the white sox were looking at for him. guillen and the sox front office really love the guy and wanted to bring him back but they couldn't find a way to put him in the lineup on anything more than a part-time/match up based basis. but they also said that the minute he retires, they want him back with the sox in some sort of coaching capacity.
easy being easy
thome can still hit the snot out of the ball. the problem is that's all he can do. he's utterly unusable in the field, so that left every nl team out of the running for his services. i thought a good fit for him would have been the tigers, actually.
ah well.
i don't get it though......at this point, in his career the only thing worth hanging around for is to chase a ws ring. so why go to the twins? i don't think they're going to be as good as they were last year and even if they are, they'll still never get through the bosox/yankees in the playoffs.
seattle actually might have been a good place for him. i think they've got a legit shot at doing some damage since they actually have a great 1=2 combo at the top of the rotation. he'd still be a back up dh, but who better to back up than griff?
if the backup dh role on the twins was the best offer on the table, he should have just retired and gone back to the white sox as a coach.
Quote from: Rome on January 26, 2010, 06:12:24 PM
andy pettitte is washed up?
someone should tell him that. not the phillies, though. not after he beat their asses twice last fall.
I still can't get over how farging big Pettitte is. He looked like a monster at the plate holding the bat in his hands during the WS. Don't know if was the shtein Clemens shared with him but the dude is a beast.
keith law just came out with his new organizational rankings
24. Phillies
They kept their best prospect, Domonic Brown but traded everyone else, and their next wave of impact guys largely spent 2009 in short-season ball. The Lee trade with Seattle restored some depth between Brown and the Anthony Goses and Sebastian Valles of the system.
so the phils went to consecutive ws winning 1, won 3 straight division titles, have the best all around pitcher in baseball, have all star caliber players at nearly every starting position and they are the 24th best run organization in baseball? i'm not saying they should be number 1 or anything, but that kind of success should def put you in the top 10, probably even top 5.
cmon noob....keith law is a baseball scout who analyzes farm systems and prospects
he's also terrible at it, so pump your brakes
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 28, 2010, 10:19:09 AM
cmon noob....keith law is a baseball scout who analyzes farm systems and prospects
i get that and know that it's not just the major league aspect that he's evaluating, but look at the talent that the phils have on the field that came from their own farm system. look at the talent in their farm system. and look at the finished product on the field.
like i said, i don't expect the phils to be #1 but given their success at the pro level and the fact that the core of the team is constructed primarily from home-grown talent, there's no way they can be ranked that freaking low.
Quote from: SunMo on January 28, 2010, 11:06:39 AM
he's also terrible at it, so pump your brakes
yeah. this.
he isnt rating anything but each teams CURRENT minor league system
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 28, 2010, 12:16:57 PM
yeah. this.
lol you didnt even know who keith law was a half hour ago
and hes not terrible at it...hes somewhere btwn pat gillick and steve phillips
how does he do with the ladies?
somewhere btwn the lil guy and tiger woods
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 28, 2010, 12:53:48 PM
he isnt rating anything but each teams CURRENT minor league system
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 28, 2010, 12:16:57 PM
yeah. this.
lol you didnt even know who keith law was a half hour ago
lol, i have no idea how you jumped to that conclusion. i knew who the hell he was although i'll admit i'm not overly familiar with his work. however, if that's his assessment of the phillies as a whole, then i have to say that he does, in fact, suck. because he does. hard.
Remember Steve Smith, the 3B coach that got everyone thrown out at home by 10 feet? He's on the next Amazing Race with his daughter (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/amazing_race/bio/steve_and_allison_16/bio.php?season=16)
i was actually trying to forget him. was going pretty well for me until you came along. ass.
Keith Law is a flaming icehole. He probably knows what he's talking about but anyone who follows anything related to the minor league system knows who he is and his sparkling personality. He and Neyer are made for each other.
pretty much all seamheads are unbelievable douchebags
he also hates phillies fans with a passion.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Phillies_sign_Oscar_Villarreal_to_minor-league_deal.html
Ryan got him an Eagles cheerleader
(http://www.thefightins.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/550_KrystleandRyan.jpg)
and Cliff Lee needed minor foot surgery and is out 2-3 weeks. No mocking.
what do you mean no mocking
do you want to make fun of cliff lee
Quote from: BigEd76 on February 09, 2010, 06:05:30 PM
Ryan got him an Eagles cheerleader
(http://www.thefightins.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/550_KrystleandRyan.jpg)
i'd imagine that the "scoring hot chicks" department is the one area of howard's life where he rarely strikes out.
im pretty sure his dong reaches her throat
I'm pretty sure that half of the northeast's dongs have reached her throat at one time or another.
According to her, the best moment in Eagles history was 44-6. Short-term memory = keeper
Quote from: KDS on February 09, 2010, 06:10:02 PM
what do you mean no mocking
do you want to make fun of cliff lee
Hell no, but I gotta put that now since I'm a blatant Philly homer and every bad thing that happens to an ex-Philly player is deserved...
dont say it like its a bad thing
you are who you are it aint no thing. still love you big guy.
QuoteThe development of Cole Hamels
The Phils' erstwhile ace plans to add another pitch to his arsenal, which currently consists of a fastball, change-up and curveball. The lefty has never fully trusted his curve, essentially rendering him a two-pitch pitcher, and coach Rich Dubee sees that repertoire as insufficient. In an attempt to offset the effect of a subpar curveball, Hamels will work this spring to add a cut fastball or slider (the two pitches are similar and sometimes nearly synonymous).
Hamels is, of course, trying to rebound from a season that he considered disappointing. The team believes that the 26-year-old is still capable of being a top pitcher, and this tweak is intended to restore him to that status. Hamels will use spring training games to pursue this project.
Interesting news. Hopefully he will have better luck with the cutter or slider than with that hump-back sloppy curve he lofted up there.
As much of a pimp Halladay is, this season pretty much rides on Hamels' ability to bounce back. They need a knock out 1-2 punch.
If Heidi develops even a passable slider she'll be pretty much unhittable.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on February 14, 2010, 02:23:25 AM
As much of a pimp Halladay is, this season pretty much rides on Hamels' ability to bounce back. They need a knock out 1-2 punch.
perhaps cliff lee is available
Too expensive & they needed to restock the farm system!!
Steve Smith on Amazing Race tonight with his daughter. He farged up big time but bounced back to move on.
Quote from: Don Ho on February 15, 2010, 12:52:13 AM
Steve Smith on Amazing Race tonight with his daughter. He farged up big time but bounced back to move on.
did he try sending burrell from 2nd on a hard single to left?
i've been saying since the beginning of last year that Hammels needs a cutter. it will keep the righties from leaning out over the plate in anticipation of his change
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Ryan_Howards_Eagles_cheerleader_is_an_ex_of_Flyers_Jeff_Carter.html
Randy Miller wrote a novel on the inside life of Harry the K....its got a 10,000 word chapter on wheeler and all of the fights and stuff.
Supposed to be really good. Its coming out March 8
Already in Clearwater 2 days early:
Utley, Halladay, Hamels, Happ, Kendrick, Baez, Durbin, Mathieson, Bastardo, Escalona, Romero, Madson, Lidge
howard must still be busy tapping that cheerleader ass. and that's fine with me because at least i know he's getting some sort of excersize rather than getting fat again.
Grit the only position player gettin it in.
Future GOAT.
(http://media.philly.com/images/20100217_inq_pside17-a.JPG)
QuotePitchers who are drafted by the Phillies and come up through the farm system speak with dread about the "Philly run," a grueling conditioning drill that leaves even the fittest athletes gasping for breath.
Last month, Roy Halladay did the "Philly run" voluntarily.
heres the full piece
http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20100217/SPORTS01/2170344/1002/SPORTS
QuoteAumont, a 6-foot-7 right-hander, is the most highly touted of the three prospects acquired from Seattle in the controversial trade for Cliff Lee. He's well aware of the impression made by Lee during only three months with the Phillies, but in time, he' hoping to forge a legacy all his own.
Oh, let us pray!
QuoteHamels in best ST shape of his life; Contreras draws raves; More
Good afternoon from Clearwater. It feels good to actually have some stone-cold information to pass along as pitchers and catchers held their first workout today.
In no particular order. . .
1) Cole Hamels drew a glowing review from pitching coach Rich Dubee today for the work he put in over the offseason. Hamels says he never stopped throwing during the break, going as far as to take his glove and ball along on vacation, where he found a tennis court where he could throw against a wall. They were just games of long-toss and catch, but according to both Hamels and Dubee, it has made all the difference in the world. Last year, Hamels said he didn't do any of it, and when he reported to spring training, his velocity was barely cracking 80 miles per hour.
"You watch him long toss right now, he's far beyond where he's ever been in spring training," Dubee said. "And he deserves a lot of credit for that. Because he was faced with a challenge. You need to start throwing. You need to get yourself ready. You need to be able to come to spring training where some work can be done. Being the perfectionist that he is, he took it to heart, and he did the work that he had to do. So he's in a much better position right now. He could have gone home and sulked again and said, oh, what do they know. He didn't do that. He went home and did what he had to do."
Because his arm is strong, Dubee says Hamels will be able to work a lot more on his curveball during spring training, something he did not get to do last year. Hamels has experimented with a cutter over the offseason, even talking to Steve Carlton and John Wetteland about developing the pitch, but neither he nor Dubee are expecting it to be a significant part of his repetoire at this point. The curve ball is still his third pitch, while the cutter remains in the experimental/developmental phase.
2) Jamie Moyer threw off a mound and did some light cutting drills today, surprising the Phillies, who did not expect him to be able to do either so soon after January arthroscopic knee surgery. Dubee said there was a "real good shot" that Moyer was ready for Opening Day, although he did not label him his No. 5 starter. Asked whether Moyer had the job, or whether there would be an open competition (the chief rival would be young righty Kyle Kendrick), Dubee said the team has not even discussed the situation.
3) Asked about any first impressions from the first workout, Charlie Manuel singled out new righty reliever Jose Contreras, who threw off the mound today. Manuel said he was impressed with the splitter Contreras was throwing, and added that he thought the big, veteran Cuban could step into the role that righthander Chan Ho Park filled last year, as a high-leverage/multiple innings type pitcher. Fellow veteran -- and fellow Cuban free agent signee -- Danys Baez who can pitch in multiple inning situations and on back-to-back days, much like righthander Chad Durbin.
4) Dubee said the timelines given by Brad Lidge and J.C. Romero to the media -- Lidge said he was two weeks behind and could start throwing off a mound in a week; Romero said he would be able to pitch full-strength in games by mid-March -- jibed with his understanding of their respective situations.
5) Hamels will throw off the mound tomorrow.
6) A quote from Dubee on righthander Scott Mathieson, who could compete for a spot in the bullpen after having overcome two elbow surgeries in the last two years:
"Last year he pitched with big-time velocity. but again, he's on a learning curve where, I don't want to say he has to make up for lost time, but he sitll needs innings and needs experience. He needs to get out there pitch on a regular basis. You can't make up for experience. You need to get on a mound and pitch, and that's what Scottie needs to do. Knock on wood, he's been healthy. Tremendous work ehtic. He's had to ligament replacements. He's in a much better position now because he understands his body a little better, understands his delivery a little better and hopefully continues to stay healhty and pitch for us."
7) Placido Polanco arrived in Clearwater today. He and second baseman Chase Utley took turns fielding ground balls from Sam Perlozzo on the half field behind the stadium.
Manuel admitted that Pedro Feliz had one of the best arms in the major leagues at third base, but said he thought Polanco was an all-around upgrade:
"Polanco plays a little bit shallow," Manuel said. "Polanco has quick feet at third base. To me, third base is kind of a step and a dive -- it's a reaction kind of place. I think that Polly can definitely do that. I think that Polly does throw good and he's accurate, and all around with the bat and everything I think he is a better player than Feliz. Feliz did a tremendous job for us defensively, but I don't see how we are going to get hurt there because I think Polly is going to be more than adequate. He was before."
got to love those cubans and their complete disregard for their arm health
i can't find any benefit to joining this even thought i want to.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/fan_forum/fightin_phils.jsp?partnerId=ed-3200714-124270688 (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/fan_forum/fightin_phils.jsp?partnerId=ed-3200714-124270688)
basically youre paying them money for a discount that you will get when you pay them more money for their products
just to put it out there, last i checked phillytailgate.com was up to 22buses for the season opener in dc.
halladay is going to get a nice dose of this fanbase before he ever throws a pitch in CBP.
Poor bastich.
Quote from: sean_sec227 on February 19, 2010, 12:20:40 PM
just to put it out there, last i checked phillytailgate.com was up to 22buses for the season opener in dc.
halladay is going to get a nice dose of this fanbase before he ever throws a pitch in CBP.
22...holy shtein thats crazy
my boy has three buses coming down and is looking into a fourth
well keep in mind it's DC.
true but its still the season and home opener
to have that many visiting fans at any teams opener is amazing
you're right, wish i still had the email from them because that is sick.
wonder what the 10 national fans that go are gonna think about it.
they are generally horrified during phillie games
its to the point now that when the phillies play there they actually have lower attendance than if the nationals are playing someone like the marlins because no national fans want to put up with philly heads
i notice this phenomenon during met national games as well
I don't know that they are horrified of the Philly fans, or the Mets fans. It's been my experience that they know their team is going to most likely loose ugly, and decide not to show. I am convinced there are less that 20,000 real, honest to goodness Nationals fans in the D.C area. For most it's a semi-interesting thing to do on a summer night. Great for me and the fam, because tickets can always be had for peanuts.
BAseball Tonight is pretty much all Phillies today.
And Halladay saying he wished they kept Lee lol
along with howard and a couple million fans. but amaro had to retool the minors. whatever with that bullshtein. it was all money.
QuoteI asked Carlos Ruiz today what it was like to catch Halladay's bullpen session yesterday.
"Oh my God, it was amazing," he said, describing a cutter that broke right and left with perfect precision, a heavy sinker, and an impressive change-up.
Quote from: phattymatty on February 19, 2010, 09:45:02 AM
i can't find any benefit to joining this even thought i want to.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/fan_forum/fightin_phils.jsp?partnerId=ed-3200714-124270688 (http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/fan_forum/fightin_phils.jsp?partnerId=ed-3200714-124270688)
QuoteOpportunity to attend Fightin' Phils Fan Club Night at Citizens Bank Park on Friday, July 23 when the Phils host the Rockies
Members-only discount at McFadden's Restaurant at Citizens Bank Park
That'll really help me here in the islands.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on February 19, 2010, 08:04:05 PM
QuoteI asked Carlos Ruiz today what it was like to catch Halladay's bullpen session yesterday.
"Oh my God, it was amazing," he said, describing a cutter that broke right and left with perfect precision, a heavy sinker, and an impressive change-up.
HARD
ON
!!!!
I'm as stoked as anyone to have halladay but ruiz's comments don't really do anything for me. What's he going yo say, that Roy threw like a little girl?
Stop raining on the positivity parade, soldier!
Man, the winter went fast. I can't wait for opening day. Stay healthy in ST, jerks.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on February 20, 2010, 12:23:41 AM
I'm as stoked as anyone to have halladay but ruiz's comments don't really do anything for me. What's he going yo say, that Roy threw like a little girl?
don't take the little girl title away from cole.. it's all he has left.
cole still hasnt reached womanhood?
i bought an autographed Cole Hamels picture from Brandywine Sporting Collectibles 3 years ago, it was 50 bucks and the wife didnt like spending that much on it. Went in there today, same thing is 220 bucks. Winnar. Blow me ho
only if you can sell it for 200. which i doubt you could.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on February 20, 2010, 04:29:15 PM
only if you can sell it for 50. which i doubt you could.
I'm going to mouthrape the both of you
i bet i could fly to clearwater and get cole to sign an 8x10 for me for less than 220 bucks
Autograph hounds and people who willingly purchase that crap are the worst kind of people
Well, there's always the people who run the tsa and think common toiletries are dangerous while knitting needles are game
Quote from: KDS on February 20, 2010, 06:22:42 PM
Autograph hounds and people who willingly purchase that crap are the worst kind of people
this! put murderers, drug dealers and rapists back on the streets to make room for the autograph seekers.
it's one thing for a kid to get an autograph. it's quite another for grown men to push those same little kids out of the way with stacks of cards begging other grown men for their signatures. those motherfargers deserve a zyklon-b shower.
don't you have a shtein ton of autos from spring training?
Quote from: ice grillin you on February 20, 2010, 06:13:33 PM
i bet i could fly to clearwater and get cole to sign an 8x10 for me for less than 220 bucks
you could, but it wont be as cool as having an authentic sticker
ha
And Havas ain't flying anywhere, so its a pointless discussion.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on February 20, 2010, 06:47:28 PM
don't you have a shtein ton of autos from spring training?
my nine year-old daughter has a few. i stopped collecting autographs when i discovered girls weren't yucky.
the Food Network show Dinner Impossible will be filming an episode at the Phillies minor league complex next month. i love that show, should be interesting
Quote from: Rome on February 22, 2010, 09:28:03 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on February 20, 2010, 06:47:28 PM
don't you have a shtein ton of autos from spring training?
my nine year-old daughter has a few. i stopped collecting autographs when i discovered girls weren't yucky.
then it's one of the other guys here that lives in florida and attends spring training games on the regular.
(http://web3.twitpic.com/img/68420176-9135e10bd9dbe594217a970802ad537a.4b829f14-scaled.jpg)
Chan Ho took $1.2M from the Yankees instead of the $3M the Phils offered
finally an athlete that puts winning ahead of money
Quote from: ice grillin you on February 22, 2010, 11:42:54 AM
finally an athlete that puts winning ahead of money
or in his case the only chance to be employed.
for what it's worth buster olney was going on & on about how good hamels looks three days into spring training.
Quote from: sean_sec227 on February 22, 2010, 12:44:29 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on February 22, 2010, 11:42:54 AM
finally an athlete that puts winning ahead of money
or in his case the only chance to be employed.
I blame Apollo Ohno. Koreans hate him.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/33jjmg5.jpg)
i thought johnny damon signed with the tigers
PG is probably beside herself over Grizzly Werth.
probably because they can compare mustaches now. snap son!
(http://www.thefightins.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/NeverEndingWerth1.jpg)
oh damn
Another guy that used to kill the Phils as an Expo/Nat has signed.....Brad Wilkerson
This Werth Photochop is pretty good too
(http://www.thefightins.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/buddy-jaysus.jpg)
Buddy Werth!
http://jaysonwerthbeards.tumblr.com/ (http://jaysonwerthbeards.tumblr.com/)
god i love this man...
Quote
One of Jimmy Rollins chief goals this season? Steal 50 bases, the Phillies short stop said yesterday. He has come close twice, stealing 47 in 2008 and 46 in his rookie season of 2001.
He also weighed in on his opinion of the best pitcher in the National League East, less than a week after Mets lefthander Johan Santana picked himself.
"Overall? Roy is (the best), as far as pitching is concerned," Rollins said. "You bring in the hitting side of things, and Santana gets the nod. There is no doubt about that. I mean, Roy can't hit. There's no secret there. I texted Roy prior to him getting down here and told him that he has my vote for National League Rookie of the Year already."
Santana is one of the better hitting pitchers in the game, with a .172 career batting average that includes 10 extra base hits.
Jimmy Rollins is 0-for-1 in his only career at-bat against Halladay and 6-for-26 with two home runs in his career against Santana.
More Rollins:
On his goals: I told Davey (Lopes) I want to try to steal 50 bases. That's the first thing I want to do. Will it happen? We'll see, but that's my goal. That's a place I've never been before, so it gives me something to shoot at. I want to try to keep the errors under three this year, that would be nice. I was on pace for that, and towards the end slipped up a little bit. Still trying to score 150 runs, I've never hit .300, working on 200 hits, so there are a lot of things for me to do, and hopefully if I do those things, hopefully I'll be doing a good enough job to bring us another championship."
On the chance to repeat: "Actually, Frank (Copenbarger) came and told me that National League teams who have gone to the World Series three years in a row won two out of three. Sounds like pretty good odds."
On Polanco hitting behind him: "Well, he's done it before. There will be a lot of first-to-thirds, for one -- well, probably not in our ballpark, but most other places. Polanco's a good hitter. He sprays the ball around, he puts the ball in play, he will move guys, he will drive in runs. Our line-up can be changed, and we've seen Charlie change a few spots. He keeps the three, four, five guys pretty much the same. . .but nothing is ever set in stone. . .if he feels good about something, he'll make a switch. But as it sits now, I guess that is the way it is slated to be."
Maybe a little more hitting and running, on our own "but we'll see how it goes."
Obviously, '08, that was just an injury. Last year, it was just a bad first half. I never really got going the first half. but other than that, I did a couple things right, scored 100 runs -- that's a bottom-line thing, just make sure I at least score 100. And I stole 30 bases, so I was still active in places at times where I could, but you can't do much more if you're not on base. Just find a way to get a few more hits in there, if they aren't going to pitch to me, draw a few more walks, but they are going to pitch to me.
As I told Milt and Charlie, don't worry about it, I'll get there. That's nothing to worry about. Charlie just kept asking when, so you guys would stop asking questions.
On the potential of a healthy Phillies' line-up: "If everybody has career years, then that will be a pretty fun time. If everybody just has a solid year, a decent year with points where everybody takes turns carrying the team but nobody really gets cold, that's a lot of wins. We could do a lot of damage. You want to be at that point come in October. If it doesn't happen in September and you find a way into the playoffs still, as long as you get into October, we'll be all right. Scoring runs, fortunately has not been a problem, it's just closing out games. . .That's something you dream about, everybody just absolutely going off, probably like Seattle in '01 or '02, where they just demolished everybody -- that's the type of year we could have."
On Brad Lidge: "It's important for him to be healthy. If he's healthy, he's going to be successful. There's no doubt about that."
On Jayson Werth's full beard: "It's pretty amazing what that man's face can do. He's pretty good right now. He's pretty good. What do I think he looks like? I don't know. He looks like the dude when you are driving down the street hanging on the corner with a sign trying to get some change."
On the Phillies picking up his option: "Ruben just called me, I don't know when it was, and said hey, I just wanted to let you know, tomorrow we are going to announce that we are picking up your option. At first I was like, Oh, OK, that's cool. But 15 minutes later I really started thinking about it, like, Wow, OK, that's real cool. I just go out there and chill. He said to go out there and relax and play, we want you to be here, so we'll go ahead and take care of that and take that pressure off. Actually, I hadn't even thought about it to that point. I guess I've only been in this organization. It never really dawned upon me to leave. I've been around here long enough and it seems like if you've been a part of winning and you're a good person, they've always picked your option up. I guess I was just going to wait until after this year or sometime during this year and expect to hear it. But he let me know in the offseason before spring training, so it was definitely spring training."
On whether he only sees himself in this organization: "When I get older, they might boot me out or some young dude might come run me off the block or something. That happens. At that point, I'll make a decision. I've just always said to myself, and this is in the future, of course, that when I'm no longer able to play everyday, there's really no reason for me to be playing. I'm not going to be a guy to come off the bench and contribute. I'm not all of a sudden going to get three or four more steps back because I'm not playing everyday. So whenever I get ran off, if I can go somewhere else and play, then I'll play, and if not, I'll go fishing or golfing or something."
QuoteOn Jayson Werth's full beard: "It's pretty amazing what that man's face can do. He's pretty good right now. He's pretty good. What do I think he looks like? I don't know. He looks like the dude when you are driving down the street hanging on the corner with a sign trying to get some change."
lol
no
give me dry, humorless chase utley
give me him
JRoll is funny as shtein and is the vocal leader of the team.
He's not the best player, or the guy everyone looks to on the field to lead em.
Not the best player, true. But he's most certainly the captain of this ship.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on February 25, 2010, 03:27:14 PM
Not the best player, true. But he's most certainly the captain of this ship.
yup...always has been
culminating with his team to beat proclamation and following it up with an MVP
He should have a better year with a true #2 behind him now. And having Victorino's average and speed towards the bottom of the lineup is a big plus after the black hole it turned into last year.
^ huh ?
i'm telling you, sean... dupont fumes.
yeah i didnt really know the leadoff hitter needed to be protected in the lineup.
i still think that victorino would probably make a better leadoff hitter and that jimmy would be much better served hitting lower in the lineup. i think the only reason jimmy is still at the top of the order is because he's the leader of this team and you don't bat your captain 7th.
Quote from: sean_sec227 on February 25, 2010, 05:25:38 PM
yeah i didnt really know the leadoff hitter needed to be protected in the lineup.
I'm talking about when he's on base. Not having someone as baseball stupid as Victorino hitting behind him. He should score more runs/get more steals this year.
"better" doesn't always have to mean average, you funhole.
Quote from: Munson on February 25, 2010, 05:37:41 PM
Quote from: sean_sec227 on February 25, 2010, 05:25:38 PM
yeah i didnt really know the leadoff hitter needed to be protected in the lineup.
I'm talking about when he's on base. Not having someone as baseball stupid as Victorino hitting behind him. He should score more runs/get more steals this year.
"better" doesn't always have to mean average, you funhole.
hey picklesniffer, are you just baseball stupid or stupid overall ? rollins' own deficencies as a leadoff hitter hold him back more than anything else.
Quote from: sean_sec227 on February 26, 2010, 09:28:04 AM
are you just baseball stupid or stupid overall ?
rhetorical
st00pid is as st00pid does
You're speaking in strictly average and OBP. Having a smart hitter behind him is going to move him over more often into scoring position for the 3 and 4 slots, and give him better protection when he's stealing.
Go farg yourself, anal wart.
victorino had more hits...double the amount of walks and 30 pt higher on base number than polanco last year...so where is polanco going to drastically help jimmy
with grit and choke in the 3 and 4 holes it basically renders the phillies #2 hitter irrelevant...no matter who hits there they are going to get ridiculous pitches to hit...and with that being the case i think id rather have victorino who not only crushes polanco in on base avg but also way out slugs him
I have always been a Polanco fan. I like him in the 2 hole because of his ability to move guys along and makes productive outs. Sometimes Victorino would not be able to get that done. But Polanco's usefulness of moving guys won't mean much unless Jimmy can get on base at a higher clip.
I do like Vic moving down to the 7 spot because it gives them some speed there and the ability to have someone to drive in 4-5-6
the only thing polanco does better in terms of moving runners over is he strikes out less (but that is cancelled out by shane walking double the amount of time)...in just about every other number victorino kills him...i dont have a huge problem with either hitting second but the notion that polanco is a better 2 hole hitter than victorino is way over blown...and i would take it a step further and say that victorino is a better 2 hole hitter
i would also submit that victorino is not only one of the dumbest baseball players ever, but one of the dumbest human beings ever
polanco will do less "wrong" things but less "super" things. it might even out by the end.
with that said, if victorino outplays polanco he'll be hitting 2nd by october. these lineups arent set in stone and they phillies basically have a six month spring training before the real season starts.
victorino really is a gargantuan moron...but he can hit a baseball
if the phillies played in a big park and didnt have huge power thruout their lineup shane wouldnt fit as well in a two hole...but in this lineup hes a better option than polanco imo...in fact on this team polanco is a perfect 8 hole guy
i doubt polanco will ever hit 8th but you could very well see a change at some point. manuel has flopped things around aside of jimmy 1 chase 3 and choke 4.
in fact victorino 1 polacno 2 jimmy 6 rual 7 would work if jrol would accept the fact that its not 2007 anymore
Agreed on him being great at 8, that would be good. But then you'd be left with Ruiz in the 7th spot and I don't think he's proven himself capable of doing that...yet.
i know what youre saying about ruiz but i cant say he hasnt proved himself because in the biggest spot there is...the postseason...he has come up large
i think ruiz has a break out regular season this year tho
anyway not much different btwn 7 and 8 but advantage polanco in that he could get to the pitchers slot more than ruiz
if he proves it then yea
but right now hes a .240 hitter who has essentially had a fluky good month the last 2 years.
Hey stupid... have you ever caught a game in your life? It's hard as farg and I can't even imagine how hard it is at the ML level.
He handles the staff great, occasionally pitches in on offense during the regular season, and he's money during the playoffs.
In short, shut it about Chooch.
wow
hes a good catcher but an 8 hitter. nothings changed.
(http://zozone.mlblogs.com/Halladay%20slides.jpg)
QuoteNew Yankee Chan Ho Park: "Philadelphia was the no. 1 choice."
TAMPA--As a reporter, it is my job to be skeptical of messages like "the Phillies have one of the best clubhouses in baseball, and many players want to play for the team." It's not that I'm supposed to be overly negative about something like that; I just have to make sure that it isn't mere spin, repeated so many times that it begins to feel like truth.
In the past week, I've had the chance to touch base with Cliff Lee and Chan Ho Park, two short-term visitors to the Philly area--and two guys who seem to wish they were in Clearwater this month. Both pitched well in 2009, and both hoped to return this season. Lee, of course, was part of the Halladay mega-deal. Park was, in Brad Lidge's estimation, "the MVP of our bullpen" last season, but the team did not re-sign him.
After failing to reach an agreement with agent Jeff Borris in December, the Phils moved on to sign Danys Baez and Jose Contreras instead. It was a gamble for the team, swapping a known quantity for two players yet to succeed in Philadelphia. And for Park, like Lee, it was extremely disappointing. The more you see former Phillies shake their heads, shrug, and say how much they loved it in that clubhouse, the more real the Phils current reputation seems.
Park was no exception. Standing in the locker room of the defending champs, dressed in the iconic pinstripes, Park made clear that he regretted leaving Philadelphia.
He began by saying the right things about becoming a Yankee. "They have the most history, and they are popular in the world, even in Korea," Park said. "When I grew up, they were a symbol--New York. Yankees."
But he spent most of his time yesterday talking about an off-season he called "frustrating."
"I had a wish after the season," he said. "Philadelphia was the no. 1 choice. I had a tough time leaving there. I had much support from fans and community, and I had the best teammates there, so..."
Well, he was asked, why didn't it work out with the Phils?
"Too late. Too late. Too late. It didn't work well in the beginning, and later on, too late," he said.
Basically, Park orginally expected a raise from the Phils, feeling that a strong performance had earned him more than the $2.5 million he made in 2009. His agents negotiated with Amaro through mid-December, and then the Phils decided to move on. Park was shocked.
"They were talking, and it didn't work," he said. "Trying to get a deal, and it didn't work out, and then later on they just gave up, and I lost."
He eventually signed for one year, $1.2 million to become a Yankees reliever. Park said that while he still preferred starting--and claimed to have drawn interest as a starter from several teams, though he declined to name those teams--he was more comfortable in the relief role than ever before.
"I knew a lot of teams were going to expect more" from him as a reliever, Park said. I" had success in the bullpen last year and the year before."
Park also addressed the criticism leveled by Charlie Manuel this winter. In complimenting Baez and Contreras as pitchers who would never refuse to take the ball, even if injured, Manuel was clearly taking a shot at Park. It is likely that Manuel's view of Park as a victim of frequent minor injuries contributed to the Phils lack of aggressiveness in pursuing the pitcher.
"I was disappointed in what he said," said Park. "That's what he thinks, but I don't think it has any meaning. He still is my favorite manager. I didn't talk to him, and I didn't believe it (when he first heard about the comments). But who cares? He's still my favorite manager. The whole team; they're the best. That's why it's so difficult to leave. The fans, especially the fans. They're the best.
"(It is) mostly sad...to leave Philadelphia. I had fun last year. Good memories and things. That makes me sad, but in the future (I'm on) a good team, and we have a chance to win. That's what's most important."
Posted by Andy Martino @ 12:03 PM Permalink | 25 comments
when i saw the phils play in san fran last year, park was warming up in the outfield and having a good time with the phils fans that were there.
one dude, standing on top of the high wall in center field kept lowering a metal can on a string that he was taunting park with. park kept throwing at the can, usually hitting it before the guy could pull it out of the way. after a few minutes, he motioned to the guy to throw down a pen. then he signed the ball and threw it back to the guy. pretty sure he kept the pen though.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on February 28, 2010, 04:34:35 PM
QuoteNew Yankee Chan Ho Park: "Philadelphia was the no. 1 choice."
TAMPA--As a reporter, it is my job to be skeptical of messages like "the Phillies have one of the best clubhouses in baseball, and many players want to play for the team." It's not that I'm supposed to be overly negative about something like that; I just have to make sure that it isn't mere spin, repeated so many times that it begins to feel like truth.
In the past week, I've had the chance to touch base with Cliff Lee and Chan Ho Park, two short-term visitors to the Philly area--and two guys who seem to wish they were in Clearwater this month. Both pitched well in 2009, and both hoped to return this season. Lee, of course, was part of the Halladay mega-deal. Park was, in Brad Lidge's estimation, "the MVP of our bullpen" last season, but the team did not re-sign him.
After failing to reach an agreement with agent Jeff Borris in December, the Phils moved on to sign Danys Baez and Jose Contreras instead. It was a gamble for the team, swapping a known quantity for two players yet to succeed in Philadelphia. And for Park, like Lee, it was extremely disappointing. The more you see former Phillies shake their heads, shrug, and say how much they loved it in that clubhouse, the more real the Phils current reputation seems.
Park was no exception. Standing in the locker room of the defending champs, dressed in the iconic pinstripes, Park made clear that he regretted leaving Philadelphia.
He began by saying the right things about becoming a Yankee. "They have the most history, and they are popular in the world, even in Korea," Park said. "When I grew up, they were a symbol--New York. Yankees."
But he spent most of his time yesterday talking about an off-season he called "frustrating."
"I had a wish after the season," he said. "Philadelphia was the no. 1 choice. I had a tough time leaving there. I had much support from fans and community, and I had the best teammates there, so..."
Well, he was asked, why didn't it work out with the Phils?
"Too late. Too late. Too late. It didn't work well in the beginning, and later on, too late," he said.
Basically, Park orginally expected a raise from the Phils, feeling that a strong performance had earned him more than the $2.5 million he made in 2009. His agents negotiated with Amaro through mid-December, and then the Phils decided to move on. Park was shocked.
"They were talking, and it didn't work," he said. "Trying to get a deal, and it didn't work out, and then later on they just gave up, and I lost."
He eventually signed for one year, $1.2 million to become a Yankees reliever. Park said that while he still preferred starting--and claimed to have drawn interest as a starter from several teams, though he declined to name those teams--he was more comfortable in the relief role than ever before.
"I knew a lot of teams were going to expect more" from him as a reliever, Park said. I" had success in the bullpen last year and the year before."
Park also addressed the criticism leveled by Charlie Manuel this winter. In complimenting Baez and Contreras as pitchers who would never refuse to take the ball, even if injured, Manuel was clearly taking a shot at Park. It is likely that Manuel's view of Park as a victim of frequent minor injuries contributed to the Phils lack of aggressiveness in pursuing the pitcher.
"I was disappointed in what he said," said Park. "That's what he thinks, but I don't think it has any meaning. He still is my favorite manager. I didn't talk to him, and I didn't believe it (when he first heard about the comments). But who cares? He's still my favorite manager. The whole team; they're the best. That's why it's so difficult to leave. The fans, especially the fans. They're the best.
"(It is) mostly sad...to leave Philadelphia. I had fun last year. Good memories and things. That makes me sad, but in the future (I'm on) a good team, and we have a chance to win. That's what's most important."
Posted by Andy Martino @ 12:03 PM Permalink | 25 comments
btwn things like this and cliff lee the eagles need to take heed and change their culture so that players want to go/stay there
the phillies pretty much do everything the way its suppopsed to be done
Quote from: ice grillin you on February 28, 2010, 08:24:48 PM
the phillies pretty much do everything the way its suppopsed to be done
except re-sign valuable relievers who want to stay and trade away a top 5 pitcher that would virtually make them a lock to get back to the ws and probably even favored to win it because they don't want to pony up $8mil.
but, even with all that, the phils are most certainly better run than the eagles are.
the lee move was a huge mistake and they deserve massive criticism for it....but its the only one since they moved into a new ballpark.....they have mad bad PP decisions from a talent standpoint on certain moves like every other team in every other sport does but overall they are a model franchise that caters diretcly to the fans and their own players making all feel more than welcome
and even with the lee move at least the budget that kept them from keeping him was in the top 95% of the league...where as the eagles penny pinch at every possible opportunity
overall, i agree. but the phils had a rare opportunity to have one of the most dominating rotations ever....doc, lee, hamels and they balked at the idea of spending $8mil on it. i'd get it if it was a middle rotation guy or someone overrated or someone over the hill. i know money wasn't the only issue and the phils wanted to get something in return for lee and restock the farm, but seriously.....if the phils rolled out doc, lee, cole and had a dominating year that ended in a championship, how many fans would give a farg if lee took off and they didn't get anything in return? even without lee, they're still a legit championship contender and still the nl favorites. but with lee they could have been a historic team where 30 years from now all baseball fans would still be talking about how dominating that 2010 phillies team was with all of their pitching and high powered offense. woulda, shoulda, coulda.
championship trumps all and it's not like lee's departure would have put this team back in the stone age. they're going to be competitive for quite a few years as long as they don't revert back to their cheap, frugal ways.
Quote from: ice grillin you on February 28, 2010, 08:51:59 PM
the lee move was a huge mistake and they deserve massive criticism for it
i got that. i just wasn't done talking yet. every time i think about it the anger sharks start swimming in my head.
Its amazing that we can even say that the Eagles should learn from the Phillies and that the Phillies know how to do things the right way. Such a total 180 from where they were when I was a kid.
it is bizzaro world isnt it
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on February 28, 2010, 10:13:28 PM
Its amazing that we can even say that the Eagles should learn from the Phillies and that the Phillies know how to do things the right way. Such a total 180 from where they were in 2004.
I love Lee, but he is not a top 5 pitcher.
on the phillies he is
you know its baseball season when teenagers who live in their parents basement start making antagonistic comments on internet message boards
nice
yeah he dares to be different but hes just north of middle school age so we give him a pass
on the bright side the wilmington news journal is looking for a new phils beat writen since scott lauber went to cover the sox for the globe. so, go browntown.
if theres a place more than 8 miles away from another country thats going to give you a job it would delaware
haha im actually like 2 miles away from mexico, dookie
and bulee it ill probably be out of here within 2 years, though most likely the next stop will be 1 hour north to mcallen (also on the border but a bigger town), corpus christi or if im lucky san an
texas fo life son
Yeah, out of the three of us I'm definitely the one that is excessively antagonistic.
someones gotta be down here to balance out phreak
this is awkward
Quote from: KDS on March 01, 2010, 02:01:39 AM
someones gotta be down here to balance out phreak
phreak is in what essentially equates to pittsburgh south...which puts you in erie....both places are suicide inducing but youre not in any way balancing out j
that all said you both need to move back to the northeast stat!
get me a job up there and ill move up there faster than you run through a packet of beef jerky during a sixer game
Delaware wants no part of temple 'educated' AIDS patient looking jews.
lol @ someone who doesnt even go to college and lives in their moms trailer making fun of a school only dork penn state people rip on
Even my friends that go to Temple hate Temple.
And I am in college, and would much rather be in college then Brownsville.
Of course, I'd much rather be in Brownsville then Temple.
Quote from: Munson on March 01, 2010, 02:49:36 AM
Even my friends that go to Temple hate Temple.
And I am in college, and would much rather be in college then Brownsville.
Of course, I'd much rather be in Brownsville then Temple.
too easy.
Quote from: Rome on March 01, 2010, 09:41:05 AM
Quote from: Munson on March 01, 2010, 02:49:36 AM
Even my friends that go to Temple hate Temple.
And I am in college, and would much rather be in college then Brownsville.
Of course, I'd much rather be in Brownsville then Temple.
too easy.
ha.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 01, 2010, 02:07:00 AM
Quote from: KDS on March 01, 2010, 02:01:39 AM
someones gotta be down here to balance out phreak
phreak is in what essentially equates to pittsburgh south...which puts you in erie....both places are suicide inducing but youre not in any way balancing out j
that all said you both need to move back to the northeast stat!
Yeah, Pittsburgh with a shtein load more traffic. And Brownsville would equate to like Beaver Falls or something. I hate Houston but the job is too good.
I just need Vegas to cake me off ina few days and I can quit my job and move home.
houston >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phoenixville
:-D
Yep, you're right on.
hey hey hey hey hey.....i spent much of my childhood in phoenixville. don't know if it's still there, but there was an awesome little pizza shop on bridge street called manny's. used to spend all day in there buying pizza by the slice and playing double dragon and spy hunter. good times.
Yes Rome, everyone here uses the correct form of then/than every time. I must be st00pid or sumthin!
Pheonixville is okay for just being a small little town.
munson hates temple and loves phoenixville
shocker
Quote from: Munson on March 01, 2010, 02:44:38 PM
Yes Rome, everyone here uses the correct form of then/than every time. I must be st00pid or sumthin!
Pheonixville is okay for just being a small little town.
Not everyone brags about being a college student, mocks someone who actually graduated, then mistakenly uses "then" instead of "than" twice in two straight sentences.
And you misspelled Phoenixville as well. Whether or not that was intentional is anyone's guess.
(http://zozone.mlblogs.com/assets_c/2010/03/howard%20wob-thumb-550x412-1821221.jpg)
hahahaha. i'd farging love to have that hanging in my study.
thats actually the press box wall...they just put a frame around the mark
oh, i didn't realize they left it in tact. in that case, i want to cut it out of the wall and hang it in my study.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 02, 2010, 07:59:10 AM
munson hates temple and loves phoenixville
shocker
Yes thats what i said, I love it. ITS THE BEST TOWN EVER.
Romey if you're that concerned with my grammar, you can search through my posts and find that I generally use it correctly. But I know you don't care as much as you're insisting you do, so go drown in the Gulf please.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 02, 2010, 11:18:57 AM
oh, i didn't realize they left it in tact. in that case, i want to cut it out of the wall and hang it in my study.
I wish I could brush my teeth with it.
Quote from: Munson on March 02, 2010, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 02, 2010, 11:18:57 AM
oh, i didn't realize they left it in tact. in that case, i want to cut it out of the wall and hang it in my study.
I wish I could brush my tooth with it.
You know what's great about the Polanco/Victorino arguement? The fact that it wouldn't be an argument if Rollins were just batting in the 6/7 slot where he belongs.
Quote from: Munson on February 26, 2010, 04:36:59 PM
You're speaking in strictly average and OBP. Having a smart hitter behind him is going to move him over more often into scoring position for the 3 and 4 slots, and give him better protection when he's stealing.
Go farg yourself, anal wart.
exibit "a" on your lack of baseball knowledge.
lol, aumont couldn't make it out of the first tonight
Quote from: SunMo on March 03, 2010, 09:54:29 PM
lol, aumont couldn't make it out of the first tonight
are you saying that this blurb
QuoteScouting reports detailing a blazing fastball preceded Phillippe Aumont to the Phillies. Tuesday, Aumont showed off that fastball -- and impressive tailing action -- in a bullpen session witnessed by pitching coach Rich Dubee, Amaro and several other team officials.
Aumont, a 6-foot-7 right-hander, is the most highly touted of the three prospects acquired from Seattle in the controversial trade for Cliff Lee. He's well aware of the impression made by Lee during only three months with the Phillies, but in time, he' hoping to forge a legacy all his own.
from this article
Quote from: ice grillin you on February 17, 2010, 12:04:56 PM
heres the full piece
http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20100217/SPORTS01/2170344/1002/SPORTS
isn't entirely accurate and the phils were trying to put a positive spin on one of the dumbest trades ever?
No, he's a pretty highly touted prospect. He has ridiculous upside, but he could also turn out to be a late inning reliever. Unless he gets hurt he's a lock to be a ML player though imo.
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 03, 2010, 11:02:25 PM
No, he's a pretty highly touted prospect. He has ridiculous upside, but he could also turn out to be a late inning reliever. Unless he gets hurt he's a lock to be a ML player though imo.
hes "pretty" highly touted but has a "ridiculous" upside
NO
jason heyward has a ridiculous upside...strasberg has a ridiculous upside...drabek doesnt even have a ridiculous upside and hes a clear cut better prospect than aumont...aumont is a very good prospect....nothing less nothing more
that being said i dont put much on what happened last night altho on the surface it was a pretty bad train wreck
Phillies/Yankees are on MLB Network tonight for all the outta towners and Mexicans like Todd.
its only on tape delay?
so i just listened to dallas green on WIP and of course two of the main discussions were about hamels and the lee situation.
on hamels he repeated what most have been saying which is that he looks as good better than he ever has and seems to be on a mission to bounce back. if that ends up panning out losing lee may be less of a set back.
on lee he pretty much pointed at the agent as the problem but made it clear that if they had signed lee they never would've traded for halladay so the idea of a rotation including both pitchers was never going to happen.
Quote from: sean_sec227 on March 04, 2010, 08:06:49 AM
the idea of a rotation including both pitchers was never going to happen.
under no circumstances could they have gone over 140 million
then adding insult to injury by claiming the lee move was not a money issue and that it had to be done to replenish the farm system which is a joke. look at the players that traded the last two years to get both lee and halladay. these guys were drafted very recently which shows with better scouting you can pick good enough players in a not so long period of time to either be your future or pieces to move.
everyone knows what their budget is....its not exactly a secret
i mean if money wasnt an issue why did the phillies want 8 million dollars cash in the halladay deal
whats really scary is if hamels has a season that mirrors how good he looks thus far can you imagine having him as a THIRD starter...that would just be redonkulous
offering blanton a tender didn't help things IMO.
again though, it's kind of pointless to keep ranting about it. lee is gone. if the phillies can go on to win it all again this year amaro will be touted as a genius, if not he will be forever ripped over it.
Quote from: sean_sec227 on March 04, 2010, 08:06:49 AM
on lee he pretty much pointed at the agent as the problem but made it clear that if they had signed lee they never would've traded for halladay so the idea of a rotation including both pitchers was never going to happen.
it's not even a matter of not signing lee to a long(er) term deal that has me butt hurt. the phils have come a long way in recent years but i don't think they're financially at the point where they could afford to sign both a cliff lee and doc. i'm just pissed that they could have run them both out there this year and it wouldn't have come close to breaking the bank. in fact, if they would have kept lee, they would have made that 8mil back by the end of april.
this team is built to win right now and they could have greatly improved their odds winning a championship this year by spending a measly 8mil. only one other time in the 100+ years of this franchise have phillies fans ever seen this much sustained success and that was in the late 70's/early 80's. so farg it.....why not just go for it all? and if lee signs elsewhere in 2011 and the phils get no minor league talent in return, who gives a shtein? another trophy is compensation enough.
i agree 100% but the point was the phillies would have never went for halladay had they been able to sign lee long term. the would never had been a scenerio where both pitchers would be on this team regardless for how long.
which is assinine to the 1000th power. :boom
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2010, 09:05:39 AM
whats really scary is if hamels has a season that mirrors how good he looks thus far can you imagine having him as a THIRD starter...that would just be redonkulous
this
in ruben we trust
And by the way... I'm of the mind that Lee should have stayed, but really, if it comes down to a choice between Lee & Blanton, is there really that much of a difference between the two?
Blanton gets you 200 innings and 12-15 wins. Lee gets you 200 innings and 14-17 wins.
I love what Lee did and all but Phillies fans who rip Blanton are just stupid (not that anyone here does that but it happens elsewhere).
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 11:49:48 AM
And by the way... I'm of the mind that Lee should have stayed, but really, if it comes down to a choice between Lee & Blanton, is there really that much of a difference between the two?
Blanton gets you 200 innings and 12-15 wins. Lee gets you 200 innings and 14-17 wins.
I love what Lee did and all but Phillies fans who rip Blanton are just stupid (not that anyone here does that but it happens elsewhere).
you can't be serious. blanton getting 12-15 wins on with this offense compared to lee putting up better numbers with the indians ?
if you want to see the
real difference between the two last year's world series was a microcosom.
Quote from: sean_sec227 on March 04, 2010, 11:54:06 AM
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 11:49:48 AM
And by the way... I'm of the mind that Lee should have stayed, but really, if it comes down to a choice between Lee & Blanton, is there really that much of a difference between the two?
Blanton gets you 200 innings and 12-15 wins. Lee gets you 200 innings and 14-17 wins.
I love what Lee did and all but Phillies fans who rip Blanton are just stupid (not that anyone here does that but it happens elsewhere).
you can't be serious. blanton getting 12-15 wins on with this offense compared to lee putting up better numbers with the indians ?
if you want to see the real difference between the two last year's world series was a microcosom.
exactly.
with the offense this team has, i could go out there and win 5 games for them because even though i'm going to give up 8+ runs in 5 innings, they're going to go out and score 13 to back me up.
i like blanton and i think he's a good 3rd/great 4th starter. most teams would love to have that kind of inning eating pitcher that far down in their rotation.
but come playoff time, there's no doubt about it that cliff lee is about as dominating a pitcher as there is and with blanton, you have to hope that he's on his game that day.
yeah i have no issue with heavy b. in fact i like him. you just can't try to put him in the same hemisphere as lee.
also lee as a number 1 or 2 for a lot of his career has had to face the other teams stud pitchers far more often than blanton whos basically been a 3-4 guy
put lee as the phillies 4 this year and blanton as their 1 and blanton is 6-18 while lee wins 20
the reason you dont see 20 game winners that often is because the best pitchers steal wins from each other
Quote from: sean_sec227 on March 04, 2010, 12:19:29 PM
yeah i have no issue with heavy b. in fact i like him. you just can't try to put him in the same hemisphere as lee.
Roy lookin' good so far.
maybe it's just me, but i've never bought into the concept that a team's #1 pitcher faces tougher opposition consistantly throughout the course of a season.
on opening day, yes. my #1 vs your #1. and i suppose it stays that way through the first few weeks or a month into the season, but then you get players going on the dl and missing starts or a minor injury that forces a pitcher to miss a start. and when you factor in off days on the schedule, you get alot of #1 vs #4 or #2 vs #3 and what not throughout the majority of the year.
You are 100% right sarge.
Its mostly luck of the draw. That's why Moyer had double digit wins last year.
fact remains that lee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blanton
i think moyer got his wins because the offense gave him quality run support in most of his starts. if i'm not mistaken, when moyer went to the pen he had the highest run support (or maybe 2nd highest) of any phillies starting pitcher up to that point. a potent offense will certainly extend a mediocre/below average pitchinig performance an extra inning or 2 because it's alot easier for a manager to decide to leave a guy in there in the 5th or 6th inning when he's sitting on a 5 run lead. try and get that extra inning or 2 out of your starter so you can save the pen.
Quote
In 2009, the 30 Opening Day starters combined for 824 starts, and around 20% were against fellow #1 starters, more than any other single rotation spot.
Some starters oppose more fellow aces than others. Justin Verlander faced the opposition's ace 11 times in 35 starts, the most in the majors. The runner-up was Brad Penny, who faced 9 aces during his 24 starts with the Red Sox but just one in 6 starts with the Giants. Penny went 7-8 for Boston but 4-1 while with San Francisco. (He also cut his ERA in half, which surely played a role in the improvement.)
and thats only #1 vs #1...it doesnt account for how many times a #1 faces a #2...are there multiple factors that go into who you face in any particular game of course....but simple math tells you top line guys will face other top line guys more often than not
So there are 5 possible opponents for a #1 pitcher to face and they faced the other #1 1/5th of the time?
What a bombshell
i am floored that this discussion is still even going on. who cares how many times lee faced the opposing team's #1, bottom line is it certainly was much more frequent than blanton.
also, wins as a stat is overrated to begin with. i guarantee you lee has has more "quality" starts than blanton which is a better measurement.
also -
lee career era = 3.97 - blanton 4.21
again i amazed rome was able to stir up this debate at all.
they face pitchers that werent even in a rotation to begin the year and those count as 6+ starters...they could be a tommy hanson or they could be a antonio basticho...in other words its divided by more than five
am i really having to explain that top fo the rotation guys face other top of the rotation guys more than end of rotation pitchers...tell me im not
Unless someone goes to a six man rotation there is still #1-#5 pitchers.
youll have to take that one up with your buddy bb
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2010, 02:37:13 PM
youll have to take that one up with your buddy bb
i am not your baby
#1s and 2s also have more starts throughout the year since managers won't skip them for an off day or push them back on a double header, etc... (although not in Charlie's case)
This really is a dumb conversation.
:boom
Quote from: smeags on March 04, 2010, 02:39:59 PM
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 04, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
Unless someone goes to a six man rotation there is still #1-#5 pitchers.
irelevant really - debate was on the opinion that lee is "not" much better than blanton. taking everything into consideration what do you think ?
I don't even know what the argument is about I was just arguing specific points.
Quote from: charlie on March 04, 2010, 02:39:41 PM
This really is a dumb conversation.
best first post ever. you'll fit in quite nicely, chuck.
who in the name of government employees from hanover, maryland are charlie and smeags?
oh like you havent seen the lord of the rings. ::)
charlie is new you idiot.
smeags is sean sec 2somethingsomething.
i hope you don't plan on ever being an investigative reporter because you'd really really suck at it.
2 pages of arguing whether lee is better than blanton?
i luv me sum me.
you'll pay for this sometime next football season.
yeah, you'll play damn yankees again at the tailgate.
why is lee being compared to blanton, one had nothing to do with the other.
i know it's popular to say that if they didn't tender blanton they could've afforded lee. but what happens after this year when lee leaves anyway and you have neither of them. i'd rather have halladay, hamels, blanton for the next couple of years than the alternative.
i'd rather have the 2010 ws championship. the eagles are content with always getting close. i'd prefer it if the phils took a slightly different approach.
that was the point i was laboring (and evidently failing miserably) to make, jonny jon.
take me higher rome ! all day !
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 03:56:26 PM
that was the point i was laboring (and evidently failing miserably) to make, jonny jon.
you're beer bitch next year and we call it even.
halladay - lee - hamels - blanton for one year >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halladay - hamels - blanton - happ for one thousand years
blanton is unbelievably expendable...pitchers like him come along every year
a halladay - lee - hamels trio comes along just about never
and there's a reason for that
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2010, 04:17:55 PM
a halladay - lee - hamels trio comes along just about never
Blanton is an above average starting pitcher. By definition those are not easy pitchers to come by.
I don't like the Lee deal because I'm not a big fan of the prospects, but I think Rube's line of thinking is at least understandable.
on the contrary...I think Blanton is as average as it gets.
they don't win the world series in 2008 without him.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 04, 2010, 04:23:15 PM
on the contrary...I think Blanton is as average as it gets.
career ERA of 4.21 and career ERA+ of 102. Last year he had a 4.05 ERA and ERA + of 105.
He's above average.
He's also as dependable and durable as it gets, or at least, he has been so far.
Again, no one is saying that having Lee wouldn't be preferable.
But having Blanton with Hamels & Halladay locked up for years to come is better than Halladay, Hamels and Lee being gone after this season, which he would have been without even a shred of a doubt.
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 04, 2010, 04:21:54 PM
Blanton is an above average starting pitcher. By definition those are not easy pitchers to come by.
I don't like the Lee deal because I'm not a big fan of the prospects, but I think Rube's line of thinking is at least understandable.
oh its completely understandable from amaros standpoint
because he had a budget he could not go over
its just sickening that a few million bucks prevented them from doing it
143 million dollar budgets should not be laughed at or ridiculed under any circumstance. the team is maxed out, dude. i wish they weren't but they are, so we move on.
blanton is def an above average pitcher.....at least by today's standard. there's not much room between his highs and his lows as he's a pretty consistant guy and eats a shtein ton of innings every year.
along with eating everything else in sight
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 04:28:48 PM
143 million dollar budgets should not be laughed at or ridiculed under any circumstance. the team is maxed out, dude. i wish they weren't but they are, so we move on.
NEVER!!
Excited to see what Kendrick brings this year. Definitely looks improved.
Hahahaha.
Apparently he's been riding Halladay's dong since he got here...maybe if he's lucky something will rub off.
kendrick is a borderline 5th starter. once again people are over-analyzing and freaking over what essentially amounts to debating between hank baskett and kevin curtis. it really doesnt farg matter if its moyer or kendrick or smith or havas. the role is as interchangeable as any in baseball. if all of those guys fail they can find someone in july or on the waiver wire. it means nothing. stop. talking. about. it.
what we should be talking about is things like will jimmy rollins be like 07 and 08 jimmy rollins and will cole hamels bring his penis with him this year?
Quote from: King Cole on March 04, 2010, 04:39:05 PM
Excited to see what Kendrick brings this year. Definitely looks improved.
i see the jinxing douche has returned.
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 04:28:48 PM
143 million dollar budgets should not be laughed at or ridiculed under any circumstance.
either are world series titles
im not saying they should have a budget like the yanks or sox...but a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with a stadium and fanbase that print money for them should never have a rock solid line drawn in the sand number...its inexcusable...they should have made an exception and paid a few extra mil in this case
they have a budget like the sox, my brotha.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2010, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 04:28:48 PM
143 million dollar budgets should not be laughed at or ridiculed under any circumstance.
either are world series titles
im not saying they should have a budget like the yanks or sox...but a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with a stadium and fanbase that print money for them should never have a rock solid line drawn in the sand number...its inexcusable...they should have made an exception and paid a few extra mil in this case
you just dont get it
amaro out-smarted and out-smugged himself. if the bottom line was $ he gets rid of blanton and then uses the lee money to get a random 4th starter on the market for 2011.
but amaro felt so farging high on himself for getting halladay to go with hamels and happ that, combined with the fact they could keep blanton for 3 years, made him think he was rotation was set and awesome and he was god. so, with that, he got rid of lee to get some prospects back.
was it dumb? yes. unnecessary. yes? but whats done is done and you can sit there and be bitter about it like you are still about the 1987 stanley cup finals or you can open up some sausage links and pop in season 1 of mad men and enjoy life.
im pretty sure the sox are 150-160 mil in 2010 arent they
but more than that is the fact that they would never ever let a few bucks prevent them from getting better as the phils did with lee
Quote from: KDS on March 04, 2010, 07:20:18 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2010, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 04:28:48 PM
143 million dollar budgets should not be laughed at or ridiculed under any circumstance.
either are world series titles
im not saying they should have a budget like the yanks or sox...but a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with a stadium and fanbase that print money for them should never have a rock solid line drawn in the sand number...its inexcusable...they should have made an exception and paid a few extra mil in this case
you just dont get it
amaro out-smarted and out-smugged himself. if the bottom line was $ he gets rid of blanton and then uses the lee money to get a random 4th starter on the market for 2011.
but amaro felt so farging high on himself for getting halladay to go with hamels and happ that, combined with the fact they could keep blanton for 3 years, made him think he was rotation was set and awesome and he was god. so, with that, he got rid of lee to get some prospects back.
was it dumb? yes. unnecessary. yes? but whats done is done and you can sit there and be bitter about it like you are still about the 1987 stanley cup finals or you can open up some sausage links and pop in season 1 of mad men and enjoy life.
you dont get it...it has nothing to do with amaro...hes getting his orders from monty who is getting them from the invisible seven
this is awesome...
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tSSu2Qy8G9pTSsguHAbeu-A&output=html
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2010, 07:22:11 PM
im pretty sure the sox are 150-160 mil in 2010 arent they
but more than that is the fact that they would never ever let a few bucks prevent them from getting better as the phils did with lee
Quote from: KDS on March 04, 2010, 07:20:18 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2010, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: Rome on March 04, 2010, 04:28:48 PM
143 million dollar budgets should not be laughed at or ridiculed under any circumstance.
either are world series titles
im not saying they should have a budget like the yanks or sox...but a team in the 4th biggest market in the country with a stadium and fanbase that print money for them should never have a rock solid line drawn in the sand number...its inexcusable...they should have made an exception and paid a few extra mil in this case
you just dont get it
amaro out-smarted and out-smugged himself. if the bottom line was $ he gets rid of blanton and then uses the lee money to get a random 4th starter on the market for 2011.
but amaro felt so farging high on himself for getting halladay to go with hamels and happ that, combined with the fact they could keep blanton for 3 years, made him think he was rotation was set and awesome and he was god. so, with that, he got rid of lee to get some prospects back.
was it dumb? yes. unnecessary. yes? but whats done is done and you can sit there and be bitter about it like you are still about the 1987 stanley cup finals or you can open up some sausage links and pop in season 1 of mad men and enjoy life.
you dont get it...it has nothing to do with amaro...hes getting his orders from monty who is getting them from the invisible seven
of course he is
but its not like they want lee gone for halladay and wanted to keep blanton
amaro had 140 to play with and he thought they were goldne without lee. he didnt think they needed him. so he long termed blanton and got prospects as opposed to having lee for one season and getting rid of blanton.
we all take the latter but amaro thinks hes a genius so he took the former. HOW IS THIS DIFFICULT? DO YOU GO TO UMBC OR SOME shtein?
Quote
Shortly after the Phillies acquired Roy Halladay in December, Rich Dubee drove up to the Phillies' complex from his off-season home in Sarasota to meet his new pitcher.
The pitching coach asked Halladay about his training program. Halladay handed Dubee a binder detailing his daily routine and charting his pitching history. Dubee said he hadn't seen anything like it, besides Jamie Moyer's individual plan.
"There's not much that goes by this guy that he doesn't know or hasn't prepared to be ready for," Dubee said.
Yesterday, Halladay looked the part. He pitched two scoreless innings against the New York Yankees in the Grapefruit League opener. He threw 24 pitches, and 21 of them were strikes. He allowed one baserunner, and only because of an error.
"I still have a long ways to go," Halladay said. "There are different things I'd like to work on moving forward."
As Kyle Kendrick walked out of the bullpen to relieve Halladay in the third inning, Halladay was on his way back out to the bullpen. He threw 12 more pitches to reach his pitch count. He went inside and ran on an elliptical machine for 30 minutes. Then he completed arm exercises that lasted about an hour.
By the time he emerged in the clubhouse to speak to reporters, the Phillies were putting the finishing touches on a come-from-behind 3-2 victory.
"He hasn't changed much, that's for sure," said Yankees manager Joe Girardi, who often faced Halladay when he was Toronto's ace.
Halladay's preparation and work ethic have been popular topics ever since pitchers and catchers reported in mid-February. For Halladay, they are something he has prioritized since his abrupt demotion to single A by the Blue Jays to start the 2001 season.
That's when the workout program changed. That's when he began keeping the binder.
Against the Yankees, Halladay pitched with a purpose. He wanted to test his conditioning and his location. He succeeded with both.
Of the 15 swings the Yankees took against Halladay, only one resulted in a ball struck solidly - a line drive caught by Jayson Werth in right field to end the first inning.
(http://www.philaflava.com/forum/images/smiles/jerkbowdown.gif)
btw myers was lights out yesterday for the astros in 2innings. i know it was only the 1st outting of spring training.
also, seriously, the debate on lee is assinine at this point. no matter what we think there is was zero, no less than zero chance that both lee & halladay would be on this roster this year. period. as dallas green said, as soon as amaro got the impression lee's agent that they couldnt resign him they jumped on halladay and that was it. lee was gone. blanton isn't even part of the equation. they would've kept him no matter which of the two they signed.
well, IMO we got the better of the two in halladay and he's locked up beyond this season and in addition to that they resigned blanton who will be a nice fit in the middle of the rotation.
its not a debate....the phillies allowed a few bucks to determine whether they would be a clear cut favorite to win the world series vs. be a contender for a world series...thats a fact
you can chose to move past that or you can chose to spend all year lamenting the possibilities....i choose the latter
contender vs. clear cut ??? does that even mean a thing unitl you see who has the parade ? kind of silly, even to the point of assinine to do the latter when the final outcome has yet to be determined but it's america and for now you still have the right to do so.
nine million dollars = couple of bucks? :-D
you fit like a square peg in the federal gubment, dookie.
Quote from: Rome on March 05, 2010, 08:37:28 AM
nine million dollars = couple of bucks? :-D
you fit like a square peg in the federal gubment, dookie.
well it's not his money so like the government 9mil is just a few bucks to him.
nine million bucks is less than a $3 across the board ticket increase next year...and its nine million for ONE year...that is pennies in the big time world of sports...its not like they were giving 120 million over the next six years
if each owner chucked in a mil five theyd be there
do they really need ross gload AND greg dobbs?
if you just dont care what they did and are more than happy with what they have or youre already over this i can understand...what i cant understand is even the biggest stepfrod explaining it away or defending it
bottom line is when have the phillies ever in their lifetime had an opportunity to hold those 2 kind of players on their roster
that kind of mindset is the difference
on paper this year's rotation is much better than the one in '08 and gives us that much more of a chance to win it all.
i just don't see how it's productive to rant endlessly about not keeping lee all year long. they have been to the world series the last two years winning one of them. if the team doesn't win it all this season then yeah, i understand it and shtein i'll probably be sreaming as loud as anyone.
if the phillies are 15games ahead of any team in mlb in mid august are we still going to be having this conversation ?
Quote from: smeags on March 05, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
on paper this year's rotation is much better than the one in '08 and gives us that much more of a chance to win it all.
Quote from: smeags on March 05, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
i just don't see how it's productive to rant endlessly about not keeping lee all year long.
you dont know me very well
Quote from: smeags on March 05, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
they have been to the world series the last two years winning one of them.
i gave them carte blanche for all of last year because of the 08 title...and in fact i would have given them a free pass for the foreseeable future had they not had this golden opportunity...now im back in their shtein
Quote from: smeags on March 05, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
if the phillies are 15games ahead of any team in mlb in mid august are we still going to be having this conversation ?
yes...because its all about winning the world series not the regular season
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 05, 2010, 09:39:52 AM
Quote from: smeags on March 05, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
i just don't see how it's productive to rant endlessly about not keeping lee all year long.
you dont know me very well
Quote from: smeags on March 05, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
if the phillies are 15games ahead of any team in mlb in mid august are we still going to be having this conversation ?
yes...because its all about winning the world series not the regular season
umm, it took reading all of two of your posts to know everything about you.
and if it's all about winning the world series then why whine about something that hasn't happened yet ? <- rhetorical question.
i know, i know, it's what you do.
what fun would sports be if you couldnt study analyze cry cheer jerk off rant slit your throat rave about your team until the end of the season
have you ever tried going through a season without the crying, ranting or throat slitting parts when it's not needed ?
it's pretty rad.
just sayin' ;D
i'm over it because there's nothing i can do to change it.
obsessing over "what might have been" now is sheer lunacy.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 05, 2010, 09:16:16 AM
nine million bucks is less than a $3 across the board ticket increase next year...and its nine million for ONE year...that is pennies in the big time world of sports...its not like they were giving 120 million over the next six years
if each owner chucked in a mil five theyd be there
do they really need ross gload AND greg dobbs?
if you just dont care what they did and are more than happy with what they have or youre already over this i can understand...what i cant understand is even the biggest stepfrod explaining it away or defending it
Thats not how it works. No owners throw there own assets in to the team.
The Phillies spend the same % of their revenue as the Yankees.
i wasnt being literal genius...its to point out how little 9 million bucks is to them
and the yankees also dont have a line in the sand number...thats the key here...not total spending or %'s of revenue...all that is meaningless
the phillies would not fold if they went over budget for one season...they would just go under budget in another year or two...and the once in a lifetime opportunity with the planets perfectly aligned the way they were being able to get halladay and lee is an opportunity that all other bigtime franchises would not have let go by...and that is the disgrace here
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 05, 2010, 12:24:23 PM
the once in a lifetime opportunity with the planets perfectly aligned the way they were being able to get halladay and lee is an opportunity that all other bigtime franchises would not have let go by...and that is the disgrace here
i think most can agree with that but you hyperbole like no other & make it sound like if they kept both selig could hand the phils the trophy right now but because lee is gone the team might as well throw our hands up because we have no shot.
this before one farging pitch has been thrown in the regular season.
wouldnt have guaranteed anything but if it had happened for the last six months and all summer we would have that that incredible feeling inside of us that we had from spring to winter 04 with the eagles
so all this whining just because you don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling inside ? ok, that's extremely silly, but ok.
so what would you be saying if they resigned lee and never got halladay ?
oh and who cares about all summer long - like you said earlier its not about the regular season.
one the best sports days of my life was going up to lehigh during TO's first camp....the buzz and excitement was indescribable that offseason...if you cant relate to that because its not during the season then i dont know what to say
i would feel absolutely no different right now with lee in and halladay out...i think halladay is a better pitcher of course but i dont think the phillies have any better chance to win the world series this year that they did going into the playoffs last year
where as if they had both...holy shtein it would be amazing right now
all that buzz in '04 and what was the end result ?
i dont really know what youre saying
that you dont care about anything or feel any emotions or enjoy anything until your team wins it all
thats fine...but thats not me
theres a difference between feeling emotion during a season, good or bad, then the extreme you're going on & on about with 2010 phils. you're bascially on a anti-phillies brass jihad.
actually im not...i applaud them greatly for expanding their spending...they are pretty much a model franchise and since moving into the ban k have hit a home run on everything they have done from building a ridiculous park to the post world series celebrations to honoring harry...they are almost perfect...i had them free of hate for years to come
but i cant ignore the lee halladay thing and the huge mistake they made there
we will see if it ends up being a mistake.
it was a mistake it just might or might not end up mattering
and one thing you have to know about igy is that while adorabale, he is also miserable and bitter and needs more hobbies.
oh i know, my hobby right now is picking on him. ;D
moyer with 3 scoreless.
how the farg is he still pitching
how many days till opening day ?
Quote from: Rome on March 08, 2010, 07:58:35 AM
Quote from: KDS on March 05, 2010, 06:31:03 PM
how the farg is he still pitching
GRIT
He is so old now that it's sort of intriguing. I find myself actively hoping that he makes the rotation and stays in the league until he's 50. Can you imagine if he pitched for 4 more seasons and averaged 11 wins. He'd have 300 and Hall of Fame voters everywhere would have exploding brain syndrome. Anyway, go Moyer you old shteinbag.
as long as the team gives him 6runs a game to work with he should have no issue getting double digit wins this season assuming he makes the starting rotation.
today's game with the Yanks is on MLBN
Watching now at work. Contreras looked like shtein. 6 hits/6 runs in 1 2/3 innings. Dawg 2-4 1K.
kendrick being pumped up as the 5 starter
"looks different"
"is the front runner"
"has a chin strap beard"
MLBN lifted the blackout on tomorrow night's game vs the Braves. Halladay is pitching
i thought that type of treatment was exclusively reserved for the yanks and sawx.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 08, 2010, 10:42:39 PM
i thought that type of treatment was exclusively reserved for the yanks and sawx.
Happy Halladay.
nnice, just got in a 17game plan with a guy in work.
I'll be thinking of you as I am watching games on my laptop in my home office freaking my neighbors out screaming at the screen.
Halladay gave up two hits in the first. TWO!
Get Lee!
struck out the side too and made McCann look awful
this game gave me a quick reminder of just how bad spring baseball is to watch if youre not there...couldnt get thru two batters before i turned it off
altho i will watch HOF heyward right now
disney stadium is the worst place on earth to watch a game. no chance i would ever go there again.
sounded like 97% phillie fans
Conlin thinks Howard/Utley/Rollins/Polanco is the best infield in baseball in the last 70 years (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/columnists/20100310_Bill_Conlin__Phillies_have_best_infield_of_baseball_s_modern_era.html)
Maybe last year's Yankees (mentioned in the article) but there's gotta be others. The Dodgers of the 70s?
The Phils faced Drabek today. Lee makes his debut for Seattle later....
cant stand colin - is that based on overall ? just defense or offense ?
wouldn't the 1980 infield be up there too ? rose, trillo, bowa & schmidt ?
Perez, Morgan, Concepcion & Rose.
The end.
Hayes, Thon, Herr & Jordan.
Quote from: BigEd76 on March 10, 2010, 02:26:10 PM
The Phils faced Drabek today. Lee makes his debut for Seattle later....
STOP BEATING A DEAD HORSE
I think your caps lock is stuck, dude.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 10, 2010, 02:49:48 PM
I think your caps lock is stuck, dude.
or upset that someone is stealing his thunder.
Why would his caps lock be upset about that?
his keyboard is gooey
Quote from: Seabiscuit36 on March 10, 2010, 02:56:42 PM
his keyboard is gooey
ugh, i was eating rice pudding when i read this. :-X
I want Aumont to be awesome just so we can have endless arguments about how igy doesn't care Aumont turned out awesome it was still a bad trade etc... Years of fun off of one trade!
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 10, 2010, 03:36:39 PM
I want Aumont to be awesome just so we can have endless arguments about how igy doesn't care Aumont turned out awesome it was still a bad trade etc... Years of fun off of one trade!
the part you dont understand is that even if aumont is great its still a horrible trade...unless hamels is a mutliple cy young award winner and in his prime the same time aumont is one of the best pitchers in majors and in his prime AND their number three pitcher is a former playoff/ws mvp and in his prime
this is actually comical at this point. :-D
i didnt even mention the part that all of that has to happen again while the phillies have the best offensive team in their history....oh and win a world series
OR
its a good trade if they win a ws this year
in fact rube is the gm of the last 100 years if they win the 2010 ws
not according to SI who ranked him 19th.
I think he's talking about phillies history.
i know but i just found it laughable that amaro got ranked 19th among the active gm's in the league.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Mathieson_among_first_cuts.html
Cuts.
Aumont.
i'll at least give the phils credit for having the gumption to admit that the highly touted prospect they got in the lee trade isn't ready to face big league hitters yet. if it were the eagles running the show, they'd still be spinning articles about how great he looks and how wonderful they are for getting him, blah blah blah. and then they'd keep in him the roster through the first several rounds of cuts before sending him down just to make it look like he's closer to being ready than he really is. hell, they'd probably just add him to the 25 man roster.
i still hate the lee trade but thinking about how the eagles would handle something like that makes me hate them even more.
This isn't even worth commenting on. He is still stretching his arm back out from being a reliever last year and even if he wasn't he still hasn't logged enough innings in the minors to even be close to considered ready. It really doesn't say anything about him one way or the other. Christ.
biggest non story ever
I'd say the bigger story is Mathieson being among the first round. He was catching a lot of pub because of how well he was throwing and the two TJ's, etc.
see that actually makes sense
aumont was never gonna make the squad
I wonder if PG misunderstood the word cut in this context. Seems plausible.
no, i don't think she misunderstood anything at all but was pointing out how the prized prospect from the lee trade isn't even grapefruit league material.
they have to trim the roster down and theres no point in keeping a guy who isnt going to make the roster and isnt going to get attention or work around. after the first couple of weeks of st the focus really becomes getting guys in game shape and setting the roster. aumont doesnt factor into that.
while i agree overall with your post, the phils were pimping this dude pretty hard since picking him up and even though no one thought he'd made the opening day roster, i think that some probably expected him to get a little more work in spring training rather than go back to the minors after the first round of cuts.
the only people who would expect that know little about how spring training works or baseball in general
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 13, 2010, 02:44:01 PM
the only people who would expect that know little about how spring training works or baseball in general
You're right, I'm too dumb to understand it.
Quotemore mothers voted republican in 04 than like ever because they bought the karl rove line and felt Bush made them safe. they were essentially the difference in the 04 election. why am I talking about this? I don't know. I'm generally incoherent.
women were the reason Bush won. every other group voted in the way they are expected too, but soccer moms voted Bush. THE END
jesus freaks also voted in extremely high numbers but instigate a 6 year old argument when you were still in elementary school.
I was in middle school i think tyvm
Happ pitched great yesterday. basticho is a clusterfarg. Choke is barely recognizable anymore. Eat a pizza, big boy. Sheesh.
Quote from: Rome on March 14, 2010, 08:11:09 AM
Happ pitched great yesterday. basticho is a clusterfarg. Choke is barely recognizable anymore. Eat a pizza, big boy. Sheesh.
I was watching from a distance and at first I thought he was Mayberry. :o
wtfarg? (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4994845)
wow
on the surface that makes sense for both teams but im pretty the cards gm would get burned alive if he traded pujols away. meanwhile it would be the greatest trade ever for the phillies, they arent going to resign choke (or pujols) anyway and get an insane upgrade for 2 years.
ha..no brainer article, but damn Buster Olney must be bored out of his mind
That would be stupid.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on March 14, 2010, 07:25:54 PM
That would be stupid.
It would be stupid to get the best player of the past 25 years?
don't believe this for a second but i am assuming pujols is due to make quite a bit more coin then howard this season so there would go that self imposed salary cap.
Pujols is going to make $16M this year and next while Howard will be making $19M & $20M.
thats right, for some reason i thought it less than $16mil this year and jumped to $20mil next season.
either way i dont see any validity to this.
Polanco hurt
http://www.csnphilly.com/03/15/10/Polanco-Suffers-Apparent-Leg-Injury-vs-P/landing.html?blockID=197846&feedID=704
Happy Monday!
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Po.html
good news
Thank god. Not ready to turn third base over to Mr. Dobbs.
PG, who pitched today for the Phils?
halladay
shtein! Was it on any TV? Daylight Savings is killing me. Not observed in Hawaii so now were 6 hours behind EST.
Halladay's line:
5IP, 1 run, 3 hits, 6 K's, 2 BBs.
His ERA for the spring is 0.90
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 15, 2010, 04:35:54 PM
Halladay's line:
5IP, 1 run, 3 hits, 6 K's, 2 BBs.
His ERA for the spring is 0.90
HOLY shtein!
Lee's is 0.89.
What is Aumonts?
same as reid's weight.
Quote from: Rome on March 15, 2010, 05:37:27 PMLee's is 0.89.
and he has 1 more ejection this March
haha - i saw that a while ago.
wtf?
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Roy_Halladay_is_a_homeowner_here.html
Roy Halladay now a Newtown Square resident.
That house is vulgar.
Is that Norman Bates peeking from that upstairs window? Looks like the Psycho house on steroids.
HOF dominic brown continues to be out of his mind this spring and has two homers in two at bats today...is anyone else counting the days till werth leaves?
also hamels with no earned thru four
domo added an RBI single and Howard hit a 2-run shot. Fan reached over the fence to catch it. Ump asked if he reached over. Fan says no. Homer counts. ha
game's on Comcast Network if you have it, and it'll be replayed tonight at 10 on MLBN
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 16, 2010, 02:17:27 PM
HOF dominic brown continues to be out of his mind this spring and has two homers in two at bats today...is anyone else counting the days till werth leaves?
also hamels with no earned thru four
I'd rather count the days til Raul leaves and have some combo of Werth/Vic/Brown out there.
But 140 mil won't fit that.
exactly. why would anyone want to count the days until werth leaves? dude's a damn good player. a brown/vic/werth outfield is like the thought of shagging jessica biel - it's boner inducing and ain't never gonna happen.
I don't know, man. Biel seems pretty get-able. She reached her peak by bagging JT, it's all downhill from here. Give her a year or so and she'll be dying to catch a fleshpop in the ear.
I'd rather keep Werth than Howard.
That's actually not a stupid comment. On the surface it looks retarded and laughable but it's really not.
werth is going to be sickeningly overpaid and they have a HOF player behind him.....no brainer
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 16, 2010, 07:14:50 PM
werth Raul is going to be sickeningly overpaid and old. they have a HOF player behind him.....no brainer
werth is a FA this year....ibanez not until 2011
Who cares. Werth needs to be here next year and 2011 too. Raul is old as shtein and his body started breaking down already last year.
i guess you missed the whole cliff lee fiasco....they didnt keep a cy young pitcher for ONE year at 9 million...now they are going to go over budget for jayson werth at lets say five years @ 15 per
See now you're talking about why it won't happen, which I agree with.
But it would still be the better move to keep Werth and have a Werth/Vic/Brown outfield.
its not an option idiot
just count the days until they plug a future HOF'er into their lineup
They only have about $65M tied up in 2012, so it's not entirely implausible that Werth gets a deal.
well if someone like the yankees doesnt overbid for him on the open market and if btwn now and then HOF dominic brown flys a prop plane into a high rise then i suppose there is a little plausibility to it
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 16, 2010, 07:41:09 PM
its not an option idiot
just count the days until they plug a future HOF'er into their lineup
Who cares if it's not an option.
It's what should happen, and counting down the days til the younger, better outfielder of the current 3 leaves is stupid.
hof brown got rewarded for his efforts today with a trip back to the minors
He'll get the call when Raul breaks down in June again.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 16, 2010, 08:19:51 PM
hof brown got rewarded for his efforts today with a trip back to the minors
perfect timing...you wanna send him down with a monster spring under his belt so he basically knows hes ready for the bigs...and he wasnt making the team this year anyway
I wonder how HOF Ingram is doing these days.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 16, 2010, 08:40:44 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 16, 2010, 08:19:51 PM
hof brown got rewarded for his efforts today with a trip back to the minors
perfect timing...you wanna send him down with a monster spring under his belt so he basically knows hes ready for the bigs...and he wasnt making the team this year anyway
overall I agree. better to send him down on a high note, feeling good about his performance than wait until he goes 0 for with 3 k's. I just brought it up since he's the topic of discussion right now anyway.
The article I read said he expected to go down last week and was happy just to get the extra time with the big leaguers.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 16, 2010, 08:53:08 PM
I wonder how HOF Ingram is doing these days.
hopefully seeing a HOF knee specialist
lets just say upfront hes hof brown because hes black. if hes white hes just brown.
Quote from: KDS on March 17, 2010, 01:29:17 AM
lets just say upfront hes hof brown because hes black. if hes white hes just brown.
wonder what torii hunter thinks about this move ?
Torii's just upset and confused because he has a girl's name.
agreed because all the brothas i know laugh at him saying it has nothing to do with whitie trying to hold them back, they just don't wanna play the game.
and they agree he has a vaggy name.
Mod4 thinks Dom Brown is the next Pujols
lol...Rome, was that you who changed that on the EMB?
Twas me, sir.
Phillies are on MLB Network at 1:00 for all the out of towners.
Not sure if they're on in Mexico, though. Sorry, Todd.
:-D
http://www.the700level.com/2010/03/buy-a-piece-of-phillies-history-citizens-bank-park-sod-for-sale.html#more (http://www.the700level.com/2010/03/buy-a-piece-of-phillies-history-citizens-bank-park-sod-for-sale.html#more)
an 09 performance from Cole today. Probably "testing secondary pitches". yea....
Myers strained his groin pitching against the Phils today. mock, etc...
:-D
Moyer making a strong case to be #5 tonight. Gave up 1 hit in 6 2/3 to the farg Stripes.
that would have been useful during the ws
Quote from: Don Ho on March 27, 2010, 04:25:33 AM
Moyer making a strong case to be #5 tonight. Gave up 1 hit in 6 2/3 to the farg Stripes.
this just means he will give up seven in one and two thirds next outing
thats his MO(yer)
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Lidge_will_stay_in_Fla_when_team_goes_north.html
Lidges will stay behind...
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 27, 2010, 10:52:51 AM
thats his MO(yer)
This board is clearly wearing off on you in a bad way.
Seriously. That was farging awful.
I actually kind of enjoyed it. Then I again I am a little depressed as my bracket has gone to shtein in a hand basket.
Hamels got farged up again today.
Getting into mid-season form, Kolbert!
Thome's 56yr old ass took Contreras opposite field too.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 27, 2010, 03:33:26 PM
Seriously. That was farging awful.
no offense but im waiting for romey or sarge before i slit my throat
we like puns. i'm not sure what the hell that was, but it most certainly wasn't punny.
damn
i wish i could live in Phreak's deluded world.
Cole Hamels (World Series MVP and champion) sucks and Donovan Mcnabb (serial choker) is the bestest.
Cole pitched like shtein last year and has not been good his last two spring starts.
I like the guy. Its not like I hate him like you clowns hate McNabb. :-*
Hamels is a fag. Donovan is a bitch. Hamels won a World Series and Donovan has never won anything.
Fag > Bitch.
Barry throwing out first pitch for Nats/Phils game (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20100329_Obama_to_throw_out_first_pitch_at_Phils_opener.html)
Quote from: Rome on March 28, 2010, 01:20:23 PM
Hamels is a fag. Donovan is a bitch. Hamels won a World Series and Donovan has never won anything.
Fag > Bitch.
game
set
match
/debate
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/preview10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=5036408
good article about a few players and managers in the league who have "it." jeter, damon and utley along with cholly and leyland. the entire article is a good read, but here's the parts about utley and manuel if you're not interesting in reading about the other guys.
QuoteThey all go about it in different ways. But they all have this particular "it:" the stuff that winners are made of. So listen to them talk about what that "it" factor is, and you'll understand what this phenomenon is all about.
"Over the course of 162 games, it's difficult to have that energy every single day," Utley says. "But if you have it, you can create something. If nothing's there, you can still create something with that energy."
QuoteUtley, meanwhile, brings much of that same stuff. But baseball is no yuk-fest to Chase Utley. The Phillies' second baseman is consumed by his work, immersed in every second of every game like just about no one you've ever run across.
"I've been in baseball 42 years, and I've seen a lot of intense players," says Phillies bench coach Pete Mackanin. "But without question, he's No. 1.
You know, Chase is a friendly guy, but I'll put it this way: During a game, I don't bother him. He's got something on his mind, and he's totally focused. I don't know if I could have played if I was that focused."
You wouldn't expect a man who has spent 42 years in professional baseball -- as a player, coach and manager -- to talk about a fellow baseball creature with that sort of how-does-he-do-this awe. But Utley is so driven, so intense, so obsessed with excellence, he's a constant topic of exactly this type of conversation within his own sport.
Eventually, even he became aware of how other people talk about him. But that has only reinforced his passion for how he goes about it.
"Some of the compliments I've gotten over the years have kind of stuck with me," he says. "Like, 'I enjoy watching you play,' or, 'Don't change the way you play.' Things like that, you don't forget. [His late, great coach] John Vukovich used to tell me that. Other coaches on other teams have given me those kinds of compliments. You're not looking for those compliments. You don't expect them. But when they happen, you appreciate it."
QuoteBut Jeter, Utley and Damon are only interested in talking about their own mindsets for so long, because they also understand their season's work isn't about them. It's not about the numbers they put up. It's about the number their team puts up --in the old "Wins" column.
Chase Utley takes baseball serious
very serious. He's so focused, sometimes teammates are afraid to talk to him because he's so locked into what he's doing.
"It's not just me," Utley says. "It's our team. Our team plays with a lot of energy.
We always bring that intensity level that can push us over the top at times when we're not at the top of our game."
When people talk about teams "learning how to win," learning this art seems like a big part of it: the art of maxing out the energy meter every single day. But Utley looks around at the personalities in his clubhouse and wonders if that's how it worked with his team.
"I'm not sure if you learn that," Utley went on. "I think the type of guys we have here play that way. And when other guys come into this organization, and they see guys playing hard every day, it sets that tone, that here we play the game the right way."
But the truth is, no team can have everybody playing that way every minute of every day of the longest season in sports. It isn't humanly possible. So what happens when teams slide off those tracks? That's when their leaders -- and managers -- have to grab the steering wheel.
Jeter and Utley may not be the loudest voices in their ballparks. But when they're asked if they'll say something if they see a teammate playing with his head somewhere else, they both snap back with a thunderous: "Yes."
QuoteAll managers hold that button in their hands every minute of every day. What often defines the best managers is their innate ability to sense precisely when to push it.
The manager of the past two National League champions has turned out to be a man who has mastered that sense. Charlie Manuel may seem like a player-friendly softie from the outside. But his bench coach, Mackanin, says: "You know that quote, 'Don't mistake kindness for weakness?' That's Charlie."
Charlie Manuel may come across as a big, old softie. Play the game the wrong way and watch his demeanor change in a hurry.
Manuel has yanked his MVP shortstop (Jimmy Rollins) out of a game for not hustling. He has taken on his Opening Day starter (Brett Myers) in the dugout, with the TV cameras rolling. He has summoned more players to his office for a "chat" than anyone will ever know. And his team meetings, while rare, are legendary for their this-is-NOT-the-way-we-play lectures.
Charlie Manuel loves his team and loves his players. But "every team has guys," he says, "who you've gotta watch, because they like the attention and all of a sudden, the game starts to become more about them than the team and winning the game. Well, the game is the No. 1 priority.
But guys will forget sometimes. They'll get caught up in who they are. And that's not good."
But it isn't so much runaway egos that Manuel is most on the lookout for. It's signs that his team has started to get a little too comfortable. And that's when it becomes time for him to push that button, and launch into his favorite topic -- getting his troops back to "playing the game the way we always have."
"I've said things to our team about energy," Manuel says. "Sometimes I'll say, 'Look in the other team's dugout. Right there is what we had. That's what we've got when we're playing good. That's what we want to keep. And look, they've got it and we don't have it right now.' You have to remind them. If you're a manager, you'd better be talking about those things."
He has always picked his spots to send those messages. But the men in his clubhouse say he's had an incredible knack for finding the right time, saying it the right way and getting his team's GPS back on course. Utley says it's all part of the "hidden genius" of Charlie Manuel.
regardless of what you think of jeter, that guy is one of the all time greats and is one of the best "big game" players i've ever seen. so for utley to get mentioned in that same category (especially after only being in the bigs for a few years) is a testiment to how hard he plays the game.
GRIT
J-Roll's better.
ha remember when igy thought rollins was a better player than utley. good times.
:-D
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 30, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
ha remember when igy thought rollins was a better player than utley. good times.
So you're both morons. Not news.
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 30, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
ha remember when igy thought rollins was a better player than utley. good times.
prior to 2009 season, there wasn't much doubt about that at all. utley is better at the plate (although i still contend that dropping rollins in the lineup would improve his production at the plate), but rollins was def a more well rounded player. utley's defense has improved tremendously though and he's clearly the superior player. but this team's success and failure is still more on jimmy than anyone else on the team.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 30, 2010, 09:52:57 AM
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 30, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
ha remember when igy thought rollins was a better player than utley. good times.
So you're both morons. Not news.
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/tessas_photos/dayum.jpg)
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 30, 2010, 12:16:40 PM
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 30, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
ha remember when igy thought rollins was a better player than utley. good times.
prior to 2009 season, there wasn't much doubt about that at all. utley is better at the plate, but rollins was def a more well rounded player. utley's defense has improved tremendously though and he's clearly the superior player. but this team's success and failure is still more on jimmy than anyone else on the team.
exactly...i dont know why he cares so much that rollins was better than utley...and may still be...this is a big year for jimmy as far as coming back
anyway he is incredibly obsessed with the whole situation
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 30, 2010, 12:23:01 PM
anyway he is incredibly obsessed with my hairy coin purse.
Werth shaved his beard
no more dirty hippie look ?
Moyer named 5th starter.
Kendrick to BP
:o
Moyer bitched about being in the pen, and Kendrick is nothing special. Not a big deal... In two months or so, Moyer's arm will fall off.
Yep, they better tell Pedro to keep throwing and be ready for after the AS break.
how good would happ look in the 5 spot right about now
Good.
How good would BRETT MYERS look in the rotation now?
lol you make no sense
myers is god
5 rules
hamels is a bitch
texas4life
Quote from: KDS on March 30, 2010, 09:44:53 PM
lol you make sense
myers is god
5 rules
hamels is a bitch
texas4life
Settle down.
Myers WOULD be a nice addition at the 5 spot right now...can you really deny that? ^-^
Quote from: KDS on March 30, 2010, 09:44:53 PM
lol you make no sense
myers is god
5 rules
hamels is a bitch
texas4life
Myers is good and versatile.
5 does rule..OMG and todd drools!
Cole is soft batch Hollywood. Man up, and get some GRIT in yo life!
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 30, 2010, 09:58:23 PM
Quote from: KDS on March 30, 2010, 09:44:53 PM
lol you make sense
myers is god
5 rules
hamels is a bitch
texas4life
Settle down.
Myers WOULD be a nice addition at the 5 spot right now...can you really deny that? ^-^
of course he would but logistically considering what they had to pay him, his injuries, and the fact that he is utter white trash i am not shedding tears over him being on the island of misfit phillies
So Moyer in the 5 spot doesn't make you twitch a little?
didn't he sign for next to nothing to play in houston? pretty sure the phils could have kept him without breaking the bank.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on March 30, 2010, 09:19:05 PM
Good.
How good would BRETT MYERS look in the rotation now?
About as good as Cliff Lee would look. They kept Moyer because they have to pay him either way. I would have kept Myers for the bullpen or as an emergency reliever/5th starter rather than signing a guy like Baes.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 30, 2010, 10:23:14 PM
didn't he sign for next to nothing to play in houston? pretty sure the phils could have kept him without breaking the bank.
He got paid $5 million
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 30, 2010, 12:16:40 PM
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 30, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
ha remember when igy thought rollins was a better player than utley. good times.
prior to 2009 season, there wasn't much doubt about that at all. utley is better at the plate (although i still contend that dropping rollins in the lineup would improve his production at the plate), but rollins was def a more well rounded player. utley's defense has improved tremendously though and he's clearly the superior player. but this team's success and failure is still more on jimmy than anyone else on the team.
No.
Utley is the most well rounded player in baseball. The only player who is better than him is Pujols and he is a top 5 right handed hitter of all time. Utley takes the most extra bases on singles and doubles year in and year out and is the most efficient baserunner in baseball. Better than Rollins. Shockingly there is much more to baserunning than stolen bases. Rollins has had one year where he was above average with the bat, and even then he didn't get anywhere close to Utley. Utley has been the best defensive second baseman for years. J-Roll adds more wins on defense than Utley, but compared to the rest of their respective position Utley is further ahead of the pack, mostly because second baseman in the MLB are generally awful at defense.
There is a reason that stat dorks and scouts have no disagreement about what I said above. Its because he is so blantantly better than everyone else at his position. I don't expect anyone to watch as much baseball or read as much as I do, I'm a dork. That's fine, but I'm right and the only way you can challenge anything I just said is if you throw out Grady Sizemore, who has a case as being a better baserunner than Utley. So he might be the SECOND best baserunner or baseball or you could make an argument that Utley is the best player in baseball behind Pujols and Mauer, but beyond that...
Who cares?
look, newbie, i appreciate the fresh blood. but its just best to ignore everything mpmcgraw says. his only purpose here is to antagonize people, mostly over some sort of homoerotic crush he has on chase utley's hair and his ability to have a high ops and draw a bunch of walks.
dont get sucked into his mind games of pointless arguments and white baseball player worshiping.
Utley is better than Rollins, and has been for a couple years now, only because Utley is white and Rollins is black.
The end.
so, could we start a phillies thread in the no hippos forum ?
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 30, 2010, 10:17:58 PM
So Moyer in the 5 spot doesn't make you twitch a little?
No. Kendrick is a AAA guy who has had 3 or 4 years now of shots to make the rotation.
The 5th starter is completely irrelevant. The offense is so good on this team than anyone is going to go 9-7 in that spot. It really doesn't matter at all who is there. Moyer pitches well enough to keep the games close for the offense to beat up on the weaker teams in the 6th-8th innings.
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 08:32:40 AM
Moyer pitches well enough to keep the games close for the offense to beat up on the weaker teams in the 6th-8th innings.
Not usually.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 31, 2010, 09:12:17 AM
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 08:32:40 AM
Moyer pitches well enough to keep the games close for the offense to beat up on the weaker teams in the 6th-8th innings.
Not usually.
He was 12-10 last season, with an ERA below 5 after it was all said an done. Completely acceptable for a 5th starter.
Go around the MLB, how many #5 starters get 12 wins?
The only difference is when he's off... he's really off, so it looks worse than it is. He's fine for the #5 spot.
Quote from: KDS on March 31, 2010, 02:21:44 AM
look, newbie, i appreciate the fresh blood. but its just best to ignore everything mpmcgraw says. his only purpose here is to antagonize people, mostly over some sort of homoerotic crush he has on chase utley's hair and his ability to have a high ops and draw a bunch of walks.
dont get sucked into his mind games of pointless arguments and white baseball player worshiping.
Thanks for the heads up
and happy passover
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 31, 2010, 09:12:17 AM
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 08:32:40 AM
Moyer pitches well enough to keep the games close for the offense to beat up on the weaker teams in the 6th-8th innings.
Not usually.
He was 12-10 last season, with an ERA below 5 after it was all said an done. Completely acceptable for a 5th starter.
Go around the MLB, how many #5 starters get 12 wins?
The only difference is when he's off... he's really off, so it looks worse than it is. He's fine for the #5 spot.
Moyer gets a ton of run support, maybe mpm knows this off the top of his head but I'm pretty sure he's gotten the best run support of any starting pitcher (average) over the last 2 seasons. He doesn't depend on velocity so as long as his location his halfway decent he'll probably approach 10 wins again.
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 31, 2010, 01:34:38 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 30, 2010, 12:16:40 PM
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 30, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
ha remember when igy thought rollins was a better player than utley. good times.
prior to 2009 season, there wasn't much doubt about that at all. utley is better at the plate (although i still contend that dropping rollins in the lineup would improve his production at the plate), but rollins was def a more well rounded player. utley's defense has improved tremendously though and he's clearly the superior player. but this team's success and failure is still more on jimmy than anyone else on the team.
No.
Utley is the most well rounded player in baseball. The only player who is better than him is Pujols and he is a top 5 right handed hitter of all time. Utley takes the most extra bases on singles and doubles year in and year out and is the most efficient baserunner in baseball. Better than Rollins. Shockingly there is much more to baserunning than stolen bases. Rollins has had one year where he was above average with the bat, and even then he didn't get anywhere close to Utley. Utley has been the best defensive second baseman for years. J-Roll adds more wins on defense than Utley, but compared to the rest of their respective position Utley is further ahead of the pack, mostly because second baseman in the MLB are generally awful at defense.
There is a reason that stat dorks and scouts have no disagreement about what I said above. Its because he is so blantantly better than everyone else at his position. I don't expect anyone to watch as much baseball or read as much as I do, I'm a dork. That's fine, but I'm right and the only way you can challenge anything I just said is if you throw out Grady Sizemore, who has a case as being a better baserunner than Utley. So he might be the SECOND best baserunner or baseball or you could make an argument that Utley is the best player in baseball behind Pujols and Mauer, but beyond that...
RIF
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 31, 2010, 09:12:17 AM
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 08:32:40 AM
Moyer pitches well enough to keep the games close for the offense to beat up on the weaker teams in the 6th-8th innings.
Not usually.
He was 12-10 last season, with an ERA below 5 after it was all said an done. Completely acceptable for a 5th starter.
Go around the MLB, how many #5 starters get 12 wins?
The only difference is when he's off... he's really off, so it looks worse than it is. He's fine for the #5 spot.
so these are your supporting facts for moyer getting the #5 spot ?
Quote from: smeags on March 31, 2010, 11:52:49 AM
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 10:02:09 AM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 31, 2010, 09:12:17 AM
Quote from: charlie on March 31, 2010, 08:32:40 AM
Moyer pitches well enough to keep the games close for the offense to beat up on the weaker teams in the 6th-8th innings.
Not usually.
He was 12-10 last season, with an ERA below 5 after it was all said an done. Completely acceptable for a 5th starter.
Go around the MLB, how many #5 starters get 12 wins?
The only difference is when he's off... he's really off, so it looks worse than it is. He's fine for the #5 spot.
so these are your supporting facts for moyer getting the #5 spot ?
No, those are my opinions as to why it's not the end of the world that he is the fifth guy.
In reality he's there because he's making $8M, and his only competition in the spring is a career AAA #3 guy/career mop-up long reliever.
Between the two, it doesn't matter who is there.
i think the fact that he is making $8mil as the #5 guy does make it matter. no not the end of the world but moyer shouldnt be there and only is because of that salary.
http://www.csnphilly.com/03/31/10/More-Bad-News-for-Phils-Blanton-Hurting/landing.html?blockID=207704&feedID=704
stick a fork in lidge
should we start discussing who our closer is going to have to be ?
Quote from: smeags on March 31, 2010, 05:15:27 PM
should we start discussing who our closer is going to have to be ?
jeff keith would be ideal. might as well kill 2 birds with 1 one stone.
Quote from: smeags on March 31, 2010, 05:15:27 PM
should we start discussing who our closer is going to have to be ?
i dont know but we better do something
They'll go with Madson until he either blows in that role like he did last season or until Lidge returns..I don't think Lidge comes back until May. Backup plan (I guess) is Baes since he has some experience as a closer.
should we be worried?
Like it or not Madson is the guy they're grooming for that role so they might as well let him have another shot at it.
What sucks is the players between the starter and closer now. No JC, no Madson, who the farg do they have that anyone should have any faith in?
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 31, 2010, 06:58:06 PM
should we be worried?
This team could go with you as closer and probably still win the NL East.
blah blah blabbity blah (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20100401_Schilling__Phillies_erred_in_trading_Lee.html)
Quote from: PhillyGirl on April 01, 2010, 08:01:55 AM
blah blah blabbity blah (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20100401_Schilling__Phillies_erred_in_trading_Lee.html)
He's right
Quote from: Dalton on March 31, 2010, 07:30:31 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 31, 2010, 06:58:06 PM
should we be worried?
This team could go with you as closer and probably still win the NL East.
it's not wise to sleep on the braves.
Quote from: Dalton on March 31, 2010, 06:41:39 PM
They'll go with Madson until he either blows in that role like he did last season
do we really need madsen to shows us again ? keep him where he is unless all other options fail. is baes the answer ? i don't know but i don't know if i want the phillies to chance screwing around with madsen anymore if they don't have to.
Quote from: smeags on April 01, 2010, 08:25:38 AM
Quote from: Dalton on March 31, 2010, 06:41:39 PM
They'll go with Madson until he either blows in that role like he did last season
do we really need madsen to shows us again ? keep him where he is unless until other options fail. is baes the answer ? i don't know but i don't know if i want the phillies to chance screwing around with madsen anymore if they don't have to.
Well Lidge won't be ready to go until May (my estimate). His fastball only topped out at 87 this week and he's already taking cortisone shots. What are their other options?
too bad Mathieson didnt have control this spring
Quote from: Seabiscuit36 on April 01, 2010, 11:02:41 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on April 01, 2010, 10:40:23 AM
Quote from: Seabiscuit36 on April 01, 2010, 08:35:46 AM
too bad they didn't resign myers.
Phreak, did you steal Sarge's login?
nah, i've posted about how unhappy i was with the decision not to bring him back.....just not as much as jam master j. basically, i felt like the phils couldn't afford to lose both park and myers. they could do without 1 but letting them both walk was absolutely retarded. although truth be told, they could have easily kept them both.
And Lee.
Bloody Sock was totally right
sure, Myers, Lee, and Park.
farg the payroll right? it's only $140 million, you can compete with that
140M only! no mas!
they really could use a mediocre pitcher like brett myers, i don't think they can make it to the world series without him
1183 IP, 1193 hits allowed, 1.357 WHIP
i can't believe they let this stud go
Post it in some more threads!
do you have a bigger 5 shrine than a myers shrine or are they both the same size?