Zarqawi Dead

[Diomedes]

Leave them be and get out of Iraq would be a fantastic start.  Get out of Saudi Arabia and Egypt as well would be even better.  Cherry on top: Stop supporting Israel--or at least show strictly equal support for both Palestine and Israel (for every F-16 Israel gets, give Palestine one.  etc.)  That would be my starting point.

From there, I'd go on to establish genuine dipmlomatic ties and make the first real attempt in the history of the U.S. middle east relations to deal fair and square in a civilized manner.  No more supporting this coup or that regime, etc.

You asked.

[Diomedes]

Could you please explain your idea on this one? because that says to me, forget the bombs and other technology, lets go in with guns only.

Yep, that's about right.  Bombs don't work.  Flood the "safe house" with Marines and take it.  Marines--recent current events nothwithstanding--are a hell of alot better at discerning a child from a "terrorist" than a bomb is.  You'll lose more guys, but you'll also lose fewer civilians, and thereby fewer "hearts and minds."

The point is that you can't have your cake and eat it too.  You want to win a war, but you don't want to spill you're own blood.  You think it can be done with "smart" bombs and propaganda..and that's not what wins wars.  People dying wins wars.  People on both sides.

If the troop level in Iraq were 750,000, the people would be hella safer.  There would be security in the streets.  Well, there'd be a hell of a lot more than now.   There would also be more U.S. deaths.  But that's what it takes.

Iraq has no chance against the U.S. if the U.S. commits fully to the war.  But we haven't and won't.  Because the people of the U.S. don't want war, plain and simple.  They don't want 20,000 of our soldiers dead.  So instead we call the guys dropping bombs heros, ignore teh civilian casualtes we cause thereby, and by failing to secure the state, and go about our uber-privelaged lives.

Soldiers are there to die.  That's their job.  It's only by their deaths that any war is won.  You can't win a war by not dying. 

Jesus Christ, how do i get drawn into it with you people?  farg it.  I quit this thread.

[phillymic2000]

Leave them be and get out of Iraq would be a fantastic start.  Get out of Saudi Arabia and Egypt as well would be even better.  Cherry on top: Stop supporting Israel--or at least show strictly equal support for both Palestine and Israel (for every F-16 Israel gets, give Palestine one.  etc.)  That would be my starting point.

From there, I'd go on to establish genuine dipmlomatic ties and make the first real attempt in the history of the U.S. middle east relations to deal fair and square in a civilized manner.  No more supporting this coup or that regime, etc.

You asked.

Ok, I just wanted to know your thoughts on how to get out. A couple of things, getting out of the entire middle east will only work for a while. They just don't want us out of the middle east, they want us to bow to their form of islam, to be like them. If we are not like them, it does not matter where we are they will come to convert or kill you, me and everyone else that is not like them. No diplomacy will work with these people. thank you for letting me know your thoughts on the matter.

[phillymic2000]

Soldiers are there to die.  That's their job.  It's only by their deaths that any war is won.  You can't win a war by not dying. 

No, I do not think soldiers are there to die, they are there to fight, and win. If we lose less of our soldiers by using technology then that is a good thing. Besides if we swarmed every safehouse and city you would just post how many of our soldiers died in vain, but then that's what you say you want now.

The point is that you can't have your cake and eat it too.  You want to win a war, but you don't want to spill you're own blood.  You think it can be done with "smart" bombs and propaganda..and that's not what wins wars.  People dying wins wars.  People on both sides.

We are dying Dio, our troops are being killed by IED's, and other ways everyday.

If the troop level in Iraq were 750,000, the people would be hella safer.  There would be security in the streets.  Well, there'd be a hell of a lot more than now.   There would also be more U.S. deaths.  But that's what it takes.

I agree we needed more troops on the ground since the begining.

Jesus Christ, how do i get drawn into it with you people?  farg it.  I quit this thread.

We can disagree, everyone has different views on things in this world.

[Magical_Retard]

Leave them be and get out of Iraq would be a fantastic start.  Get out of Saudi Arabia and Egypt as well would be even better.  Cherry on top: Stop supporting Israel--or at least show strictly equal support for both Palestine and Israel (for every F-16 Israel gets, give Palestine one.  etc.)  That would be my starting point.

From there, I'd go on to establish genuine dipmlomatic ties and make the first real attempt in the history of the U.S. middle east relations to deal fair and square in a civilized manner.  No more supporting this coup or that regime, etc.

You asked.

Ok, I just wanted to know your thoughts on how to get out. A couple of things, getting out of the entire middle east will only work for a while. They just don't want us out of the middle east, they want us to bow to their form of islam, to be like them. If we are not like them, it does not matter where we are they will come to convert or kill you, me and everyone else that is not like them. No diplomacy will work with these people. thank you for letting me know your thoughts on the matter.

cept ur wrong.

reading up on the history of how the middle east percieved the west around the turn of the 20th century, b4 the world wars....many leaders...religious and political commented on how the west is the living embodiment of the Islamic ideals of democracy, freedom, and intellectualism....the west's structure is Islamic without the Muslims and they in return commented how thier own lands are Muslim without the Islam. why? because if people actually read into the ideas behind the sharia law and the similarities behind the constitution or the french revolution u will see they are not much different whatsoever. so what went wrong? imperialism...colonialism....and the way it affected the middle east. go rape the whole region, steal thier resources, leave them in the dumps, divide thier people and alliances up and make up countries based on maps and not people, continue supporting dictatorships when needed, claim to hold the moral ground, continue influencing the politics of hte region, keeping the Sauds in power....and you might get to the conclusion the reason they wanna destroy you and make you leave the region is because they havent recovered and want the UNITED STATES and its foreign policy gone. (read "Whats Right with Islam" for more on this).

the ugly by product of that is the terrorism we see today...the al qaeda...whose points resonate easily with the people  who suffered thanks to our methods to better our already priveledged lives.

with all that said this man deserved the worst and got it. hope this helps somehow in bringing some stability in the region, but i doubt that. the bigger problem for the security of Iraq is the secretarian violence and the economic poverty which you cant just hope to eliminate by saying "ok now u have a democratic election so everything should be fixed".

[reese125]

Cherry on top: Stop supporting Israel--or at least show strictly equal support for both Palestine and Israel (for every F-16 Israel gets, give Palestine one.  etc.)  That would be my starting point.

not a chance we stop supporting Isreal: way too mauch history there going back to the Holocaust.  Not to mention Israel is one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world. Several  programs allow American companies and universities to benefit from Israel's expertise in agriculture and high technology. Israel was the first country to sign a free trade agreement with the US, which has resulted in a quintupling of trade between the two countries. we aint going nowhere

[bobbyinlondon]

The snake has grown a new head.

Abu Abdel-Rahman al-Iraqi takes over where Abu Musab al-Zarqawi left off.

al-Qaida in Iraq Vows to Continue Holy War

Thursday June 8, 2006 12:31 PM


CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Al-Qaida in Iraq confirmed the death of its leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and vowed it will continue its ``holy war'' in a statement posted on the Web on Thursday.

``We want to give you the joyous news of the martyrdom of the mujahed sheik Abu Musab al-Zarqawi,'' said the statement, signed by ``Abu Abdel-Rahman al-Iraqi,'' identified as the deputy ``emir'' or leader of al-Qaida in Iraq.

``The death of our leaders is life for us. It will only increase our persistence in continuing holy war so that the word of God will be supreme,'' it said.

Good luck beating these guys by killing them.

Unlikely, since according to this story by AP in the updated Philly.com, HE was also killed:


Al-Zarqawi and several aides, including spiritual adviser Sheik Abdul Rahman, were killed Wednesday evening in a remote area 30 miles from Baghdad in the volatile province of Diyala, just east of the provincial capital of Baqouba, officials said.

[PhillyPhanInDC]

Ok, I just wanted to know your thoughts on how to get out. A couple of things, getting out of the entire middle east will only work for a while. They just don't want us out of the middle east, they want us to bow to their form of islam, to be like them. If we are not like them, it does not matter where we are they will come to convert or kill you, me and everyone else that is not like them. No diplomacy will work with these people. thank you for letting me know your thoughts on the matter.

cept ur wrong.

reading up on the history of how the middle east percieved the west around the turn of the 20th century, b4 the world wars....many leaders...religious and political commented on how the west is the living embodiment of the Islamic ideals of democracy, freedom, and intellectualism....the west's structure is Islamic without the Muslims and they in return commented how thier own lands are Muslim without the Islam. why? because if people actually read into the ideas behind the sharia law and the similarities behind the constitution or the french revolution u will see they are not much different whatsoever. so what went wrong? imperialism...colonialism....and the way it affected the middle east. go rape the whole region, steal thier resources, leave them in the dumps, divide thier people and alliances up and make up countries based on maps and not people, continue supporting dictatorships when needed, claim to hold the moral ground, continue influencing the politics of hte region, keeping the Sauds in power....and you might get to the conclusion the reason they wanna destroy you and make you leave the region is because they havent recovered and want the UNITED STATES and its foreign policy gone. (read "Whats Right with Islam" for more on this).

the ugly by product of that is the terrorism we see today...the al qaeda...whose points resonate easily with the people  who suffered thanks to our methods to better our already priveledged lives.

with all that said this man deserved the worst and got it. hope this helps somehow in bringing some stability in the region, but i doubt that. the bigger problem for the security of Iraq is the secretarian violence and the economic poverty which you cant just hope to eliminate by saying "ok now u have a democratic election so everything should be fixed".

Excellent post 'Tard.

Phillymic, you are an ignorant ass if you think the entire Muslim world wants us converted and to "bow down" to them. You are even more of an ass if you can't differentiate between your average Muslim and an extremist.

[rjs246]

Wow. People care about this stuff a lot more than I do.

[PhillyPhanInDC]

Wow. People care about this stuff a lot more than I do.

Infidel.

[ice grillin you]

"terror"ist
"smart" bomb

see how tricky the us is...they so easily brainwash the sheep in this country

[phillymic2000]

Phillymic, you are an ignorant ass if you think the entire Muslim world wants us converted and to "bow down" to them. You are even more of an ass if you can't differentiate between your average Muslim and an extremist.

Give me a break, I relize the entire muslim world does not want us dead, if that was the case the millions of Muslims in this country would be rioting and killing us. I am talking about the radical muslims, Taliban etc... they are using terrorism to spread fear and kill innocent lives to push their way of life. Those are the ones Mag. Retard that will stop at nothing to kill us if we are over there or not. To use Afganistan as an example the Taliban ran that country through fear and murder, it was not a majority of radical muslims, but the few ran the show. this form of radical Islam calls for infidel's to convert or be killed, and to them it is right and just to do this, call me what you want, but the radicals will not stop if we leave the middle east.

[mussa]

wowwe wowwe whoooo...this thread is going through the roof!

[Butchers Bill]

"terror"ist
"smart" bomb

see how tricky the us is...they so easily brainwash the sheep in this country

I love you tards like you call everyone who disagrees with you "sheep".   

[ice grillin you]

i didnt call anyone sheep

i called the sheep....sheep