Sure, other people get CTE. People in actual battle, for example.
But the NFL has a problem here. Knowledge is a real bitch.
Dave Duerson had CTE and he knew it. He didn't just ask for his brain to be donated for study, when he killed himself he made sure not to destroy the evidence.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=6465271
from the paper with an agenda:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/sports/football/05duerson.html?hp
Duerson would not likely have received any financial support from NFL disability plan--which he himself helped to administrate--had he filed.
Really can't let that one go, can you?
He has a so-called problem with it.
Me, personally, not so much.
Nope. You have forever opened my eyes to their schemes.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/05/15/minnesota.ny.ranger.death/index.html?hpt=T2
Jim McMahon and 6 other former players are suing the NFL (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6874906/jim-mcmahon-other-players-sue-nfl-concussions)
QuoteThe plaintiffs include two-time Super Bowl champion Jim McMahon, who has said he played through five concussions but now frequently walks around "in a daze" and forgets why he entered a room.
QuoteSeventy-five retired players sued the NFL last month in Los Angeles, alleging the league knew since the 1920s of the harmful effects of concussions, but concealed them from players, coaches, trainers and the public until June 2010. That suit also names helmet-maker Riddell, the NFL's official helmet supplier, as a defendant.
Not football related, but
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/06/rangers-boogaard-suffered-from-degenerative-brain-disease-before-his-death/
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7384035/twenty-one-former-nfl-players-sue-league-concussions
I was just talking with a buddy the other day and Oronde Gadsden came up in the conversation because dude always made a few incredible catches every year and I was wondering what ever happened to that guy. Now I know.
Transfer talk to this thread:
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 15, 2012, 09:09:07 AM
Quote from: SD on April 15, 2012, 05:47:46 AM
Bullshtein. You don't need the NFL to tell you getting hit in the head over and over again is bad for your head. That's called common sense.
not defending the suit but we know a whole hell of a lot more today about concussions and what the consequences may be than we did even five years ago...much less 15-20 years ago when it wasnt even a blip on the health radar
CTE is a new disease...i think because of this the nfl is probably off the hook as it was new to them as well...but no one could have ever imagined that playing a contact sport could have been as dangerous as we now no it is...it wasnt a case of just "common sense"....boxing excluded
EDIT: reeeeemix!...bring it back come rewind....just saw dios post above after i posted
Agree with all of this and I doubt the NFL was hiding concussions as some sort of conspiracy so players would go all out. I'm glad the condition is being brought to the forefront as I don't think anyone should have to live the rest of their lives with a brain injury from playing a sport [Pronger should retire]. At the same time the players know the risks of playing when they sign their contracts. I don't even understand the point of the lawsuit other than the long term effects are now medically proven and that a few players were affected by concussions and a bunch of other players decided to jump in on the class action lawsuit just because.
At this point there are countless players who get concussions and choose to keep playing, so that doesn't help the players case. One question is that of all the guys filing the suit, how many of them would have stopped playing if they knew then what is known today? Probably not many, other than a few who would have retired a year or two earlier, and that would be very hard to prove causality from just that extra couple of years.
What is the NFL currently doing for retired players who are a little older now and really starting to suffer the consequences of repeated hits to the head in their playing days? If the league is stepping up and giving them assistance with their medical bills, great. If not (and I don't think they are and that's why we see the lawsuits), then the league needs to get involved and start taking care of the players who helped make the league as popular as it is.
Just because the league claims they didn't know 20 or 30 years ago that concussions would/could lead to long term health concerns doesn't mean they aren't responsible for making sure that former players are taken care of. Just be accountable, do the right thing and make sure these guys are getting the right help.
i agree with sarge....the players concern should be focused on post playing careers and the nfl's disgusting callousness in that area...versus trying to go after them for something 20-30 years ago that a. they probably arent even guilty of and b. even if they were is going to be impossible to prove
Quote from: Sgt PSN on April 15, 2012, 12:34:25 PM
What is the NFL currently doing for retired players who are a little older now and really starting to suffer the consequences of repeated hits to the head in their playing days? If the league is stepping up and giving them assistance with their medical bills, great. If not (and I don't think they are and that's why we see the lawsuits), then the league needs to get involved and start taking care of the players who helped make the league as popular as it is.
The league is doing quite a lot now though you could argue it is to protect their interests, and are wisely working with the players union to develop their programs and benefits (so therefore if things are jointly decided and developed it becomes harder for players to sue the league and the union won't).
One of the big changes they recently made is that now for former players to be eligible for coverage for CTE and related disorders they only need a diagnosis, whereas before they had to show that it was football related which is a pretty hard thing to prove. One of the reasons why the cap stayed so low is that they are re-allocating more funds to players benefits rather than salary.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 02, 2012, 10:58:47 PMAt some point the chorus against will out-shout the hard core fans.
There may in fact be some kind of tipping point in time, but I would argue that the game is already a lock to change because of what's already been learned about CTE and brain injuries generally.
I don't have to remind you idiots how often we see players sitting out multiple games on account of getting their bell rung, which is by defintino having an affect on the game.
But I'm talking more about societal changes than rule changes, and not about outries and protests so much as people just changing their minds and behavior.
With every confirmed case of CTE in football, tens of thousands of mothers across America will tell their sons "You can play baseball or soccer, but sorry honey, you're not going to play football." That will change things.
Another thing that will happen is schools will be forced to drop the sport under pressure from parents, the medical professionals, and perhaps most importantly, accountants, who will impress upon them the difficulty of justifying ever increasing insurance costs associated with running a football team.
The game isn't going to go away, but it's gonna change.
Right. If the game can adapt (through better equipment or rule changes or whatever) it will survive. If it can't, or won't, there will eventually be a tipping point.
no there really wont
of course it will evolve...its evolved quite a bit already over the last 20 years....but there will never be a "tipping point" and there will never be a time where there isnt football
people are losing their minds because a popular player just died but in the end this is the bird flu or y2k....people flipping out predicting the end of the world for no reason
We don't like watching our heroes disintegrate into tragic helpless invalids and there are enough people with an axe to grind to basically guarantee that things will change drastically.
Like I said. it's easy for us to dismiss that side of the argument because we all love the sport and the violence that comes with it.
i dislike the violence and what it does to people probably more than anyone...id be one of the last people to ever turn a blind eye....but im also the not going to flip out and predict the death of the entire sport
nfl players have been turning into zombies in their post playing days for 50 years....its just now we are in a 24/7 twitter blog universe where everything seems like the biggest thing thats ever happened...so when you get a seau dying you are going to have hysteria
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 03, 2012, 09:15:46 AM
no there really wont
of course it will evolve...its evolved quite a bit already over the last 20 years....but there will never be a "tipping point" and there will never be a time where there isnt football
people are losing their minds because a popular player just died but in the end this is the bird flu or y2k....people flipping out predicting the end of the world for no reason
IGY, this type of thing is not without precedent. From the article I posted in the Dead thread:
Quote
Football faced a version of this question a hundred years ago, after a series of ugly incidents. In 1905, President Theodore Roosevelt called an emergency summit at the White House, alarmed, as the historian John Sayle Watterson writes, "that the brutality of the prize ring had invaded college football and might end up destroying it." Columbia University dropped the sport entirely. A professor at the University of Chicago called it a "boy-killing, man-mutilating, money-making, education-prostituting, gladiatorial sport." In December of 1905, the presidents of twelve prominent colleges met in New York and came within one vote of abolishing the game. But the main objection at the time was to a style of play—densely and dangerously packed offensive strategies—that, it turns out, could be largely corrected with rule changes, like the legalization of the forward pass and the doubling of the first-down distance from five yards to ten. Today, when we consider subtler and more insidious forms of injury, it's far from clear whether the problem is the style of play or the play itself.
If there becomes enough of a focus, there could be dramatic impacts to the game. I don't think that the NFL will cease to exist overnight, but you can bet that one of the repercussions is that high schools and colleges begin to shy away from it (over a long period of time) because of insurance costs and the like. Obviously, that would erode the bedrock of the professional league.
I agree with you about the hysteria. It's there, and largely irrational, but it can surely be a catalyst for, as RJS put it, people with axes to grind to find an issue to latch on to and courageously and righteously ensure the safety of everyone, whether they like it or not.
high school and even college is not an issue....
im sure theres an example or two somewhere in the country of this not being the case but the kinds of life threatening and life debilitating injuries we are talking about happen in people who play in the nfl for extended periods of time
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 03, 2012, 09:45:55 AM
high school and even college is not an issue....
im sure theres an example or two somewhere in the country of this not being the case but the kinds of life threatening and life debilitating injuries we are talking about happen in people who play in the nfl for extended periods of time
Not so. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that people that don't ever make to the NFL have these injuries. Kids who play only a couple of years of high school football can have serious damage. Again, it should be noted this creates a degenerative condition. The damaged may be cause when the person is 17, but you may not become symptomatic for decades.
they can but they dont
At this point, people are beginning to do more homework. These people were generally just thought to have dementia or early onset Alzheimer's, but now that people are becoming aware of C.T.E, and how to find it (unfortunately almost always postmortem), they are likely to continue to attribute this to football and other contact-related sports. Basically, the medical community will begin to accept the fact that they had been misdiagnosing the problem for decades.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/04/sport/nfl-seau-autopsy/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Seau's brain, or what's left of it, to be given to CTE researchers.
i will save them time.
playing football and smashing you head into shtein fargs up your brain.
enjoy your millions.
ha....pretty much
Rules aren't going to be enough.
If this problem can't be solved with engineering, it's going to spell trouble for the league.
Well, define "rules."
How about this rule: no more helmets.
OK, we don't have to shut down the NFL anymore
QuoteThe NFL is telling retirees about a medical study that says former players live longer than men in the general population according to the Associated Press.
While player safety issues related to brain trauma and other football-related injuries dominate the headlines, the study by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) found 334 deceased men in a sampling of 3,439 former NFL players. Estimates for the general population anticipated 625 deaths.
Players in the study participated in the NFL for at least five seasons from 1959 through 1988, and were observed by NIOSH through 2007.
The study is a follow-up to a 1994 report the institute did at the request of the players' union to, "investigate concerns that players were dying prematurely." The latest findings, which contradict that idea, were published earlier this year in the American Journal of Cardiology and on NIOSH's blog. The NFL sent a newsletter from NIOSH about the study's finding to about 3,200 pre-1993 retired players on Tuesday.
Your brain might be farged, but at least you'll live longer to enjoy pissing your pants while walking around your front yard looking for your house.
NFL and NFLPA announce largest youth helmet replacement program in history
Partnership between NFL, NFL Players Association, USA Football, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), National Athletic Equipment Reconditioners Association (NAERA), NCAA, National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment (NOCSAE), Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association (SGMA), Rawlings, Riddell, Schutt, and Xenith is supported by U.S Consumer Product Safety Commission
As part of a joint commitment to player safety, a group of sports entities and equipment manufacturers has entered into an unprecedented partnership to create a youth football safety and helmet replacement program for youth in underserved communities. The initiative will remove helmets that are 10 years old or older and replace them with new helmets at no cost to the beneficiary leagues and will provide coaches with the latest educational information to help keep their young athletes safer and healthier.
In its first year, the program is being piloted in four markets: the California Bay Area, Gulf Coast region, Northern Ohio, and the tri-state region around New York City. The NFL, NFLPA, NCAA and NOCSAE have committed a combined total of approximately $1 million to the program in its first year. The pilot program is designed to provide valuable information on the state of youth football helmets, including the number of helmets 10 years old or older in use. As of 2012, NAERA members will no longer recondition or recertify any helmet that is 10 years of age or older. NOCSAE will collect the helmets when removed and use them for ongoing research programs.
USA Football, the sport's national governing body and the Official Youth Football Development Partner of the NFL and NFLPA, will lead the execution of the program. Other partners in the initiative are the NFL, NFL Players Association, CDC, NAERA, NCAA, NOCSAE and the SGMA. Equipment manufacturers Rawlings, Riddell, Schutt, and Xenith are providing discounted helmets. To learn more or apply for helmets, visit www.usafootball.com/playersafety
The effort, initiated by CPSC Chairman INEZ TENENBAUM, is expected to educate thousands of youth football coaches on vital health and safety issues and provide nearly 13,000 new helmets to youth football players in low-income communities in 2012. Helmets will be distributed beginning in July.
"We are pleased to be part of this initiative, which will give children in underserved communities access to new helmets, and to reach coaches and parents with educational information to help protect young athletes from head injuries," said NFL Commissioner ROGER GOODELL. "This program is part of our focus on player safety at all levels of the game. We are proud to join with these well-respected organizations to make the Helmet Replacement Program a reality."
"The time has come to accelerate the culture change needed to improve the health and safety of youth football players," said CPSC Chairman Tenenbaum. "Even with our push for improved safety equipment, it is vital that parents, coaches and players understand that there is no such thing as a concussion-proof helmet. The best answer is safer and smarter play, which is why this game-changing program is aimed at reducing hits to the head and trauma to the brain. I want to thank everyone involved in this initiative for joining together in a common commitment to youth player safety."
Helmets do not prevent concussions. Therefore, the program includes a strong educational campaign that features important safety information from the CDC, the CPSC and USA Football, including materials on concussion awareness, proper helmet fitting, and fundamentally sound football instruction with USA Football's Tackle Progression Model and Levels of Contact module. In addition, leagues that receive helmets through this program will be required to have their coaches complete USA Football's Level 1 coaching course. Elements of the education component are as follows:
*"Start with Safety": Concussion awareness and response information, featuring links to CDC content and resources
*"Perfect Fitting": Helmet fitting information, including links to manufacturer-specific fitting resources
*"Tackle Safety": USA Football's Tackle Progression Model and Levels of Contact information and videos
*"Helmet Condition": Reconditioning and replacement information
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8218700/neuropathologist-dr-ann-mckee-accused-killing-football-be-sport-only-hope
That is well written. It's a little to punchy and catchy for me, but still a pleasure to read.
If this were a different subject and I were SD, I'd advance the following article as proof positive that CTE is a scam.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/21/autopsy-no-apparent-damage-to-seaus-brain/?hpt=hp_t2
Lol. Well played. I'm guessing the standard autopsy doesn't reveal things like the CTE, right? Which is why brains are shipped to that lady doctor in the article grantland article for more in depth examinations.
sad
QuoteSAN DIEGO -- Junior Seau, who committed suicide last May, two years after retiring as one of the premier linebackers in NFL history, suffered from the type of chronic brain damage that also has been found in dozens of deceased former players, five brain specialists consulted by the National Institutes of Health concluded.
Seau's ex-wife, Gina, and his oldest son Tyler, 23, told ABC News and ESPN in an exclusive interview they were informed last week that Seau's brain had tested positive for Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, a neurodegenerative disease that can lead to dementia, memory loss and depression.
"I think it's important for everyone to know that Junior did indeed suffer from CTE," Gina Seau said. "It's important that we take steps to help these players. We certainly don't want to see anything like this happen again to any of our athletes."
She said the family was told that Seau's disease resulted from "a lot of head-to-head collisions over the course of 20 years of playing in the NFL. And that it gradually, you know, developed the deterioration of his brain and his ability to think logically."
CTE is a progressive disease associated with repeated head trauma. Although long known to occur in boxers, it was not discovered in football players until 2005. Researchers at Boston University recently confirmed 50 cases of CTE in former football players, including 33 who played in the NFL.
Seau shot himself in the heart May 2. His death stunned not only the football world but also his hometown, San Diego, where he played the first 13 years of his 20-year career. Seau led the Chargers to their first and only Super Bowl appearance and became a beloved figure in the community.
Within hours of Seau's death, Tyler Seau said he received calls from researchers hoping to secure his father's brain for study. The family ultimately chose the National Institutes of Health in Washington, D.C., to oversee the research.
Gina Seau said the family chose the NIH because it was a "complete, comprehensive, unbiased scientific institution of the highest level."
Dr. Russell Lonser, the former chief of surgical neurology at the NIH, helped coordinate the study. In an interview, Dr. Lonser, who was recently named chairman of the department of neurological surgery at Ohio State University, said that because of the publicity surrounding the case, the study of Seau's brain was "blinded" to ensure its independence.
Three independent neuropathologists from outside the NIH were given unidentified tissue from three different brains; one belonged to Seau, another to a person who had suffered from Alzheimer's Disease, and a third from a person with no history of traumatic brain injury or neurodegenerative disease.
Dr. Lonser said the three experts independently arrived at the same conclusion as two other government researchers: that Seau's brain showed definitive signs of CTE. Those signs included the presence of an abnormal protein called "tau" that forms neurofibrillary tangles, effectively strangling brain cells.
A statement released by the NIH said the tangles were found "within multiple regions of Mr. Seau's brain." In addition, the statement said, a small region of the left frontal lobe showed "evidence of scarring that is consistent with a small, old traumatic brain injury."
In addition to his previous role at NIH and, now, at Ohio State, Dr. Lonser serves as chairman of the NFL's research subcommittee, part of the league's Head, Neck & Spine Committee, which helps set policy related to concussions. The NFL in September made a $30 million unrestricted donation to the NIH. Dr. Lonser said the league "was not involved in anything regarding how this brain was handled or managed at any step of the process, to be absolutely crystal clear about that."
"The NFL had no influence whatsoever," he said.
The study of CTE and football is still in its infancy. The prevalence of the disease has not been established. It cannot be diagnosed in living people, only by examining brains that are removed during autopsy.
More than 4,000 former players are suing the NFL in the federal court, alleging the league ignored and denied the link between football and brain damage, even after CTE was discovered in former players. The Seau family said it has not yet decided whether to join the lawsuits.
Over the past five years, under pressure from Congress, dissenting researchers and, more recently, the lawsuits, the NFL disbanded a controversial committee on concussions that was established in 1994 under former Commissioner Paul Tagliabue. The league made several rule changes and overhauled its policies to focus on head trauma and long-term cognitive problems.
Asked if she believed the NFL was slow to address the issue, Gina Seau said: "Too slow for us, yeah."
Tyler, whose mother was Junior Seau's high school sweetheart, and Gina both described dramatic changes they noticed in Seau during the final years of his life, including mood swings, depression, forgetfulness, insomnia and detachment.
"He would sometimes lose his temper," Tyler said. "He would get irritable over very small things. And he would take it out on not just myself but also other people that he was close to. And I didn't understand why."
Seau, who also played for Miami and New England, was never listed by his teams as having had a concussion.
Gina was married to Seau for 11 years and had three children with him. They divorced in 2002, but she said they remained close friends until his death. Seau sent a group text to his four children and Gina the night before he took his life.
"I love you," he wrote.
"The difference with Junior & from an emotional standpoint (was) how detached he became emotionally," Gina said. "It was so obvious to me because early, many, many years ago, he used to be such a phenomenal communicator. If there was a problem in any relationship, whether it was between us or a relationship with one of his coaches or teammates or somewhere in the business world, he would sit down and talk about it."
Gina recalled that Seau frequently said, "Let's sit down and break bread and figure this out." She added, "He didn't run from conflict."
Tyler, Gina and her two oldest children, 19-year-old Sydney and 17-year-old Jake, all said they found some solace in the CTE diagnosis because it helped explain some of Seau's uncharacteristic behavior.
Still, it also left them conflicted that a sport so much a part of their lives had altered him so terribly.
"It definitely hurts a little bit because football was part of our lives, our childhood, for such a long time," said Sydney, a freshman at USC. "And to hear that his passion for the sport inflicted and impacted our lives, it does hurt. And I wish it didn't, because we loved it just as much as he did. And to see that this was the final outcome is really bittersweet and really sad."
Jake, a high school junior who quit football to focus on lacrosse, added: "He lived for those games, Sunday and Monday nights, you know? And to find out that that's possibly what could've killed him or caused his death is really hard."
Tyler said he was holding tightly to his memories of getting up at 5 in the morning to lift weights with his father before heading to the beach for a workout and surfing. And while the diagnosis helps, he said, it can't compensate for his loss.
"I guess it makes it more real," he said. "It makes me realize that he wasn't invincible, because I always thought of him as being that guy. Like a lot of sons do when they look up to their dad. You know? You try to be like that man in your life. You try to mimic the things that he does. Play the game the way he did. Work the way he did. And, you know, now you look at it in a little bit different view."
Tyler added: "Is it worth it? I'm not sure. But it's not worth it for me to not have a dad. So to me it's not worth it."
Ban Football
If guns were banned, he might not have shot himself to death.
he would have just found a higher cliff to drive off of
Ban cliffs?
Cliffs don't kill people. It's the damn fall.
Falls are fine. Ban impacts, which I guess also means ban football. So ban football.
We should probably just wrap everyone in bubble wrap all the time and be done with it.
You gonna let your son play football?
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8848510/thomas-jones-elects-donate-brain-science-dies
Pretty good job by Jones to not only make the decision to donate his brain, but also for doing some work to keep the CTE exposure towards the front page.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/22/health/cte-study/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Possible breakthrough in detection of CTE.
it's pretty amazing the amount of people who say "They get paid millions of dollars to play a sport where they crash heads with other players, what do they expect to happen?"
i didn't realize getting paid means you lose the right to have a healthy life after playing
Not to mention that not every player clears $1mil in salary. No idea how accurate this (http://www.eaglescap.com/current.html) is, but 17 out of 59 players on the Eagles make more than $1mil per year. That's less than 1/3 of the team. Can only assume that's the case league wide and that about 33% of the league are "millionaires."
And when you consider the higher insurance costs, union dues, club dues, etc, the guys making less than $1mil a year are left with a fairly modest (but comfy) chunk of money for house, car, etc.
Until players are all wearing helmets that are soft on the inside and outside, I won't believe that the NFL gives a shtein about any of this.
Quote from: SunMo on January 23, 2013, 08:44:10 AM
it's pretty amazing the amount of people who say "They get paid millions of dollars to play a sport where they crash heads with other players, what do they expect to happen?"
i didn't realize getting paid means you lose the right to have a healthy life after playing
They're not being forced to play football, it's their choice to walk away at any time.
Yeah I'm in that camp as well. No on forces them and the injury histories of ex players are well documented. No gun to their heads.
The NFL and NFLPA do need to increase the retirement benefits and health care though
There are a lot of people who played football for a long time and never got paid a dime for it.
Knowing this much already, are you going to let your kid play football?
Yeah I will if he wants to
That makes one of us.
I hope your kid doesn't want to, but if he does, I hope he's not one of the ones that gets hurt.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 23, 2013, 09:44:56 PM
Yeah I'm in that camp as well. No on forces them and the injury histories of ex players are well documented. No gun to their heads.
The NFL and NFLPA do need to increase the retirement benefits and health care though
no because they aren't forced to play that means they deserve to have alzhiemers when they are 40?
Quote from: SunMo on January 24, 2013, 08:55:19 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 23, 2013, 09:44:56 PM
Yeah I'm in that camp as well. No on forces them and the injury histories of ex players are well documented. No gun to their heads.
The NFL and NFLPA do need to increase the retirement benefits and health care though
no because they aren't forced to play that means they deserve to have alzhiemers when they are 40?
Um - ok so how should this be prevented? If they don't want to take that chance then don't play. Unless you know of a way to stop it.
first of all don't give an exclusive helmet contract to a company when there is an industry accepted better alternative available.
second of all, GIVE the players the information. the whole lawsuit is based on the fact that the NFL allegedly hid information about the effects of concussion.
this is where you say "c'mon, they are playing a game where they smash heads with each other, what did they expect to happen?"
I think we're going to learn that the problem is the helmets and gear. In time I think what we're going to see is that the hard shell helmet and facemask, not to mention other padding, allows our ever stronger and faster athletes to do much greater damage to their brains than would happen without it. In time, I think we'll see that yes, you can get CTE from rugby and boxing and the like, but that the percentage of players who suffer brain damage is much greater in football and hockey.
The solution will be simple: to stop using hard shell helmets, facemasks and body armor. The game will change, but not much. You can still have a wicked violent football game without all the gear. And the result over years will be a decrease in CTE.
they could increase the minimum size of shoulder pads to make it harder to go head to head
Yeah, I don't get the mindset that just because these guys choose to play, that they should be ok with their brain being slowly turned to mush. It's a really obtuse point of view.
The long term affects of the game on the body are very well documented and have been for decades. Everyone knows that guys who play in the NFL are going to have painful joints and muscles much earlier in life than regular folks. Broken bones and torn ligaments and muscles are an not preventable, even in non-contact sports. However, I think that the NFL was aware of the studies on the long term affects on the brain through repeated hits to the head and didn't implement requirements for better equipment or make rule changes to reduce head on head collisions until after players started offing themselves.
Being a cop comes with the risk of getting shot and studies show that bullets are bad for the body. So police departments give their officers bullet proof vests. But if they didn't, cops and the families of dead cops would be furious. So why is it ok for the NFL to sit on it's hands over the last 20 years in terms of player safety? Does anyone really believe that these discoveries have just been made in the last 5 years or so? The league could have been a lot more proactive in demanding the development of better equipment or making some rule changes to protect players a lot sooner than they did. But they didn't because better equipment is expensive and they were scared of losing their fan base and hurting profits.
You can't prevent major injuries in a sport like football, but you can at least be proactive in trying to minimize risk to your players, especially when it comes to your farging brain. And I don't think the NFL was proactive in player safety at all.
If my idea is right, I think bigger shoulder pads would be a marginal improvement at best, because it's not just head to head contact that causes these brain injuries. They occur in all kinds of collisions because the armor confers a sense of invincibility which allows players to go much harder than they would without them.
But hey, maybe that's the way to go. That is, maybe we decide "okay, so the pads and helmets are part of the problem, but you know what, farg it...we like the game the way it is, so we're just going to call CTE is an occupational hazard, make changes around the margins like bigger shoulder pads, implement a host of other measures to care for active and retired players as best as possible, and increase pay to the players as compensation for the hazard they assume by playing."
That or, strip the armor, let the game change, and enjoy a drastic drop in CTE.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 24, 2013, 09:17:21 AM...I think that the NFL was aware of the studies on the long term affects on the brain through repeated hits to the head and didn't implement requirements for better equipment or make rule changes to reduce head on head collisions until after players started offing themselves.
For the record, I have seen no credible reporting to suggest this is true, and though I'm quick to condemn the greedy capitalists who run this plantation country, I just don't see them doing this.
I don't think there's a realistic way to get rid of this problem while keeping what makes football football. It's a documented dangerous sport played by massive, fast men who treat their bodies like torpedoes on a regular basis. The very best that padding tweaks can do is slightly mitigate the risk (which they should do)..but it won't make this problem go away. Players should have the best equipment, and they should have the latest information...and even with that many will play and will have consequences like this down the line. It's baked into the unrelentingly violent nature of the game.
Quote from: Diomedes on January 24, 2013, 09:21:47 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 24, 2013, 09:17:21 AM...I think that the NFL was aware of the studies on the long term affects on the brain through repeated hits to the head and didn't implement requirements for better equipment or make rule changes to reduce head on head collisions until after players started offing themselves.
For the record, I have seen no credible reporting to suggest this is true, and though I'm quick to condemn the greedy capitalists who run this plantation country, I just don't see them doing this.
I haven't either. But I do think that the league was aware of it before the general public and definitely before the players were. Maybe it wasn't 20 years, but I think they knew. At an absolute minimum, I think the league is negligent in at least putting the extra warning label on the game. If players know the risk and don't demand better equipment or rule changes, then it's totally on them. But you have to give them all of the information upfront, or once it becomes available and I don't think the league was very forthright with that info.
The league (and union) is also guilty, imo, of failing to take care of past players. Obviously someone who played 20 years ago had no idea about CTE and maybe the league didn't either at the time. But once CTE was "discovered" the league and union should have immediately been reaching out to former players urging them to get their heads examined and assisting with the costs and it seems like there was a lot of hesitation from both parties to do so.
There is no way to get your head examined for CTE without cutting the brain in half, so fat lot of good it will do anyone until a real exam is available. If the breakthrough I posted about works, or leads to something that works, then things are going to get interesting.
If you can get a picture that proves brain damage, well, that's going to change some shtein.
i think we should make coal mining more dangerous since coal miners dont have to mine coal
no more canary for YOU!
Worst analogy ever.
Might want to read more books and fewer entertainment magazines, Einstein.
Quote from: Diomedes on January 24, 2013, 09:08:24 AM
I think we're going to learn that the problem is the helmets and gear. In time I think what we're going to see is that the hard shell helmet and facemask, not to mention other padding, allows our ever stronger and faster athletes to do much greater damage to their brains than would happen without it. In time, I think we'll see that yes, you can get CTE from rugby and boxing and the like, but that the percentage of players who suffer brain damage is much greater in football and hockey.
The solution will be simple: to stop using hard shell helmets, facemasks and body armor. The game will change, but not much. You can still have a wicked violent football game without all the gear. And the result over years will be a decrease in CTE.
I agree that helmets are a big contributor to this. It's counterintuitive to people, but it's a well-understood economic phenomenon. People take more risks when they think they are protected. Studies have been done on the speed of football hits vs rugby or Aussie football hits, and we know the increased speed is due to the added protection. The number of car crashes went up when seat belts became mandatory. Now, the number of
fatal accidents went down, but the overall number went up (as well as the number of pedestrian and bicyclist deaths) because people drive less safely the more protected they feel. When you shield a guy from hurting his head in most circumstances, he's going to take more chances with his head. It's not something we always do consciously, it's just the way we are wired.
Not sure I agree that boxing won't have the problem as much as football, though. The whole point in boxing is to bash someone's head in. When you KO a guy, you are giving him a concussion. If football is played perfectly, heads aren't hit at all. The big benefit of removing helmets is that guys would do more to avoid hitting their head at all, not that they would try to lessen the force of the head blows (although they would do that also).
QuoteNEW ORLEANS -- Baltimore Ravens safety Ed Reed said former NFL linebacker Junior Seau, who police say committed suicide and reportedly had brain damage from repeated concussions, "signed up for it'' when he came into the NFL.
Reed, who has been in the league since 2002, also said Tuesday he already has experienced issues that he believes stem from past concussions.
"I feel effects from it,'' Reed said, speaking during Super Bowl media day. "Some days, I wake up and I'm like, 'Where did my memory go?' But I signed up for it.''
While being asked about the hot topic of concussions, Reed repeatedly said he and other players know football is a violent game and realized the dangers going in.
That prompted a reporter to ask if Seau had signed up for it.
"Did he sign up for it?'' Reed said. "Yeah, he signed up for it.''
Reed then said several more times that all players accept the potential risks before turning back to Seau.
"Junior gave everything he had to football,'' Reed said. "I'm sure he's looking down and has no regrets.''
Ask him if he'd let his kid play.
Haha... what?
You realize you're posting on an NFL football message board, right?
The farg has happened to you, Dio?
It should be the kids choice to play.
What if the kid only likes football? Want him playing and getting physical exercise or playing video games all day?
Quote from: Rome on January 29, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
Haha... what?
You realize you're posting on an NFL football message board, right?
The farg has happened to you, Dio?
Oh look, someone did ask him:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/01/29/ed-reed-i-am-with-obama-on-not-letting-my-kids-play-football/
So the 150 pound Harvard law b-ball playing nerd doesn't think he'd let his equally tiny offspring play a violent contact sport?
Quote from: Rome on January 30, 2013, 08:25:48 AM
So the 150 pound Harvard law b-ball playing nerd doesn't think he'd let his equally tiny offspring play a violent contact sport?
ed reed agrees with him as do many other nfl players
I'm pretty sure Ed Reed's kid won't have to lift a finger for the rest of his life. That's the point. If you're entitled and rich you don't have to play a sport to get ahead. These guys willingly trade whatever old age they would have had for the riches and glory they achieve on the gridiron. Any of us would gladly trade places with them, and if not, you really don't belong here posting on an NFL board.
Agree completely with Rome. Over privileged children of pro athletes never play sports, much less go pro themselves. Just ask Peyton/Eli Manning, Mark Ingram, Clay/Casey Matthews, Kellen Winslow Jr, Chris Simms, etc, etc.
hahahahaha
They don't have to play. They choose to play.
Should a cop not expect to be compensated for a crippling gun shot wound he received chasing a criminal? After all, he knew the risks when he signed up for the job. Farg you Barney Fife. You knew the risk. Now lay there and die.
No, if cops are able to get a never ending supply of tail between ages 18-35. And not just what they can blackmail out of prostitutes, that doesn't count.
RIF
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 30, 2013, 01:20:33 PM
Should a cop not expect to be compensated for a crippling gun shot wound he received chasing a criminal? After all, he knew the risks when he signed up for the job. Farg you Barney Fife. You knew the risk. Now lay there and die.
Maybe when we start paying cops $1 million a year I'll agree with you. If you play football and get a concussion and decide to keep on playing THAT IS ON YOU.
And yes I'd let my son play football if I had one. I'd encourage him to do so. I used to coach little guys in Philly [I'm sure some of you remember I used to coach my cousin who was a high school football star].
putting a price on peoples lives.....the american way
Thomas Jones pledges his brain to science for study after he dies, etc.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/02/health/nfl-concussion-concerns/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
Welcome to 2 weeks and 3 pages ago.
Kevin Tuner: The New Face of CTE (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20130410_Ex-Eagle_might_be_the_face_of_the_concussion_case.html)
Good to see someone in the comments questioning the motives of these so called brain damaged players. They're all just a bunch of broke jerks, and definitely not mad that the NFL didn't worry about their health and drastically shortened their lives to make billions off the vicious hits they gave each other.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1732157-former-ravens-qb-cullen-finnertys-autopsy-reveals-cte?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_c4
thats an especially bad case because its a qb who never got hit in practice and didnt even play in the nfl
Settlement in the concussion case $765M to the 4500 or so plantiffs
That's about $170k not including attorney fees.
I'm sure that's equitable.
nfl is paying lawyer fees.
That's some farging hush money.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9612138/judge-nfl-players-settle-concussion-suit
QuoteThe settlement likely means the NFL won't have to disclose internal files about what it knew, when, about concussion-linked brain problems. Lawyers had been eager to learn, for instance, about the workings of the league's Mild Traumatic Brain Injury Committee, which was led for more than a decade by a rheumatologist.
Some shady shtein, right there.
Give a poor, black, broke ex-athlete one more six figure payday and he'll go away quietly.
Jim McMahon has dementia and thought about killing himself (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jim-mcmahon-opens-up-about-dementia-dan-patrick-contemplated-suicide-nfl-settlement-083113)
Pam Oliver had a "severe concussion" when she was hit in the head by the ball thrown by the Colts QB a couple weeks ago.
Maybe she should sue too?
Players were initially going for $2B from the NFL, so their "settlement" of $765M is like 38% of their original demand. WTF? Does the NFL have pics of these guys all banging each other in the showers or something? The players didn't settle, looks more like they just laid down.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 01, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Players were initially going for $2B from the NFL, so their "settlement" of $765M is like 38% of their original demand. WTF? Does the NFL have pics of these guys all banging each other in the showers or something? The players didn't settle, looks more like they just laid down.
The players were ostensibly looking for money for medical treatment, and therefore need the money now. If they continued with legal action, a number of things could happen:
- They could have been awarded $2B at some point (perhaps years in the future)
- They could have been awarded much less than $2B at some point (perhaps years in the future)
- They could have lost and received nothing (less than nothing considering the legal fees). Proving that their injuries were a result of playing in the NFL and that the NFL should be held financially liable for their injuries is not a slam dunk legal case, especially against an organization with the kinds of resources of the NFL.
Of course reps for the players will say they should have gotten much more and reps for the NFL will say "show's over, nothing to see here." The public relations battle continues. The fact remains, however, that both sides agreed on the settlement.
I think the media is more upset about the settlement than anyone else. They were looking forward to milking this scandal for years, and now the NFL can keep its internal documents under wraps, and the players won't have much of a reason to continue agitating since it won't give them any more money.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 01, 2013, 03:09:18 PM
Pam Oliver had a "severe concussion" when she was hit in the head by the ball thrown by the Colts QB a couple weeks ago.
Maybe she should sue too?
Your butthurt over this is starting to rival IGY with McNabb and SD with women and solar panels.
Quote from: QB Eagles on September 01, 2013, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 01, 2013, 03:11:17 PM
Players were initially going for $2B from the NFL, so their "settlement" of $765M is like 38% of their original demand. WTF? Does the NFL have pics of these guys all banging each other in the showers or something? The players didn't settle, looks more like they just laid down.
The players were ostensibly looking for money for medical treatment, and therefore need the money now. If they continued with legal action, a number of things could happen:
- They could have been awarded $2B at some point (perhaps years in the future)
- They could have been awarded much less than $2B at some point (perhaps years in the future)
- They could have lost and received nothing (less than nothing considering the legal fees). Proving that their injuries were a result of playing in the NFL and that the NFL should be held financially liable for their injuries is not a slam dunk legal case, especially against an organization with the kinds of resources of the NFL.
Of course reps for the players will say they should have gotten much more and reps for the NFL will say "show's over, nothing to see here." The public relations battle continues. The fact remains, however, that both sides agreed on the settlement.
I think the media is more upset about the settlement than anyone else. They were looking forward to milking this scandal for years, and now the NFL can keep its internal documents under wraps, and the players won't have much of a reason to continue agitating since it won't give them any more money.
I don't disagree with any of this, but at the same time, $170k isn't going to do much at all for a lot of those guys. And I'm certain that of the 4500 players named as plaintiffs, at least 25% of them don't really rate being on there which reduces the amount given to the guys who really need it.
NFL made out like a farging bandit on this one. And they won't even feel it in their pockets. They'll just raise merchandise prices, broadcasting rights, etc, etc.
It actually isn't $170K per plaintiff. The guys diagnosed with serious neurological needs get up to $5M, suicide families get up to $4M. I think every other veteran gets cut a relatively small check based on how many years they were in the league.
where is erin brokovich when you need her
Is she going to trick the NFL into drinking glasses full of scrambled brains?
Quote from: General_Failure on September 01, 2013, 03:47:38 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 01, 2013, 03:09:18 PM
Pam Oliver had a "severe concussion" when she was hit in the head by the ball thrown by the Colts QB a couple weeks ago.
Maybe she should sue too?
Your butthurt over this is starting to rival IGY with McNabb and SD with women and solar panels.
I am far from butthurt over this.
I agreed the NFL needed to take care of its older players better. I have been saying that for years since I saw the story on John Mackey and how he received basically nothing while the league continued to amass billions.
I also believe that the players should know the risks and they acknowledge those by playing. You have guys like Pat White who threw their names into this class action deal...and then withdrew his name so he could sign a contract to play!
Monolithic corporate monsters taking advantage of the rank & file?
Inconceivable!
i bet the nfl is super psyched for the movie united states of football by the sean pamphilon to make its way around.
he's the same dude that exposed the bounty gate scandal
i am disappointed by this settlement because it really doesn't accomplish anything in the long term. i get why the players settled, many of them needed the money immediately for medical costs and what not, but this doesn't expose the nfl whatsoever regarding decades of biased research and hiding the link between concussions and CTE.
i really want to fight anyone who says, "they knew the risks when they signed up" bull farging shtein they did. it wasn't until the last 10 years or so that people really started putting together the connection between concussions and CTE. but yeah, some dumb jock in high school is supposed to know that he can have dementia from too many concussions.
Ok so what is your take on the people included in this suit who have played within the last ten years? They knew. I cite Pat White as an example again - he was in on it and then withdrew himself so he could go back to playing.
There are many many many legit claims out there. The ones looking to make a money grab sully the names and efforts of the ones who really need the help.
And this could have been avoided, at least on this scale, had the NFL taken better care of its players from the jump. Rather than casting aside the people who have helped them print money they should have provided much better pensions and post-playing healthcare.
Look at that Bengals LB from the 80s (his name escapes me at the moment) who is fighting to save his leg? He gets shtein from the NFL has has to jump through a thousand hoops just to try to get benefits.
Guys like him are the ones the NFL has failed. The many guys like Kevin Turner etc....they deserve this a thousand percent
The NFL has knowingly hid facts for years and should be held responsible. I just hate the recent players who are trying to take advantage. THEY knew/know the risks.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 02, 2013, 11:57:57 AMAnd this could have been avoided, at least on this scale, had the NFL taken better care of its players from the jump. Rather than casting aside the people who have helped them print money they should have provided much better pensions and post-playing healthcare.
Look at that Bengals LB from the 80s (his name escapes me at the moment) who is fighting to save his leg? He gets shtein from the NFL has has to jump through a thousand hoops just to try to get benefits.
It's on the NFLPA too. They negotiate with the NFL on behalf of the players. All the NFL cares about is the final dollar figure going to the players. They don't care if it goes out in the form of health insurance or a 401k or whatever. If former players aren't getting the kind of benefits they need, their union is letting them down and asking for the wrong mix of salary and benefits.
Agreed. I saw one person, cannot recall who, mention how quiet the NFLPA has been since the settlement has been announced.
Since Gene Washington died I think their labor deals have been less than stellar with DeMaurice Smith at the helm. shtein as soon as they signed the last one word began leaking out that it was a bad deal.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 02, 2013, 11:57:57 AM
There are many many many legit claims out there. The ones looking to make a money grab sully the names and efforts of the ones who really need the help.
to me, for every 1 BS claim there are 10 legit ones. in every class action lawsuit that has BS plaintiffs, but that doesn't really bother me.
I'm with Sunny here.
citing pat white is like saying all public assistance programs should be abolished because of that one "welfare queen" or looking for that guy who committed voter fraud so we can enact all kinds of ridiculous voter restrictions
Not really - he just happens to be the face of the guys looking to milk it. There's 4500+ names in there and unless you have a list Pat White is the name that's out there that was looking to game the system.
Motherfarger has an iPhone but still uses a Link card at the god damn grocery store!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6OklMbxkw8
We've Seen Frontline's Highly Anticipated Concussion Documentary, And It Is Very Bad For The NFL (http://www.buzzfeed.com/erikmalinowski/weve-seen-frontlines-highly-anticipated-concussion-documenta)
QuoteThe other nagging unanswerable is what this film would've looked like had the NFL actually cooperated with its production in some way. As it stands, League of Denial depicts Paul Tagliabue's (and then Roger Goodell's) NFL as a business entity that will do anything within its means to save the brand from public relations harm, bullying scientists and flat-out denying factual data in a way that would make D.C. politicians envious. The physician who first examined Mike Webster's brain has been systemically impugned and questioned over the years in despicable fashion.
i watched about an hour of the documentary last night, it makes the nfl look bad bad bad
the lengths that the league and their medical "experts" go to just to destroy the reputation of objective medical people doing this research is sickening.
you can watch it online http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/
I DVR'd it and will watch it this weekend...
everyone should have frontline already programmed into their dvr....such a great show
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 09, 2013, 11:27:20 AM
I DVR'd it and will watch it this weekend...
Spoilers: The NFL is run by huge iceholes.
Spoiler part deux: 98% of NFL fans don't give a shtein about the players, don't watch documentaries, don't think. This is America afterall and the dumbest sport in the dumbest country.
Dumber than curling?
Americans don't curl.
http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Curling
Dio you dummy.
Buncha white folk from other countries who just got their green cards. I don't see any Americans on that team.
During the last Winter Olympics I got really drunk and screamed for the curling team. They sucked though. I still haven't achieved the dream I decided I had that day to become a curler.
Tony Dorsett (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2013/11/07/tony-dorsett-diagnosed-with-signs-of-cte/)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVyJBhlcKZo&list=SP0hKMB1-xkc-T3mmvkes9q1Y25otfMfTX&index=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQhUpmGTfQc&list=SP0hKMB1-xkc-T3mmvkes9q1Y25otfMfTX&index=3
Jesus. Thanks for the videos. I still keep thinking of my cousin playing varsity football who's already had 8 concussions at age 17.
That's just nuts!
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10295307/attorney-blasts-concussion-deal-recommend-clients-continue-sue-nfl
I think CTE is the end of the NFL.
It wouldn't be if the NFL would just admit their wrong doing and take care of their former players.
I think it will still be the end. As the days pile on, more and more evidence is going to mean fewer and fewer kids playing. High schools and colleges are going to drop it entirely because they can't afford the risk on top of the actual cost of the game, which is already hight.
And then there are the mothers. If there are, for the sake of argument, 20 million kids at the bottom of the player pyramind which comes to a pinnacle in the NFL...how much of a reduction in that number can the game withstand before the product on the field starts to look weaker? 10%? 20%?
The game is already something of a last ditch chance for a lot of kids, but there is also still a huge portion of the playing population which hail from affluent homes where the kids have a future other than the streets. Those kids are going to vanish because their mothers read news papers and go to the doctor's office, etc. The playing population will become darker and poorer and less educated and the whole enterprise will lose it's ability to come off as a sport rather than a plantation.
25 years from now the NFL will be very different, and I think less powerful, popular, and palatable.
Quote from: Diomedes on January 16, 2014, 06:33:52 AMThe playing population will become darker and poorer and less educated and the whole enterprise will lose it's ability to come off as a sport rather than a plantation.
Not at all convinced America would care about that. People love to watch the SEC slave league, where the talent is way worse than the NFL, typically isn't affluent or educated, and looks like the result of genetic and chemical experiments some scientists ran on sharecroppers back in the eugenics era. Oh yeah and they get paid zero (officially) rather than the big bucks the NFL tosses around.
The NFL will continue to make more money than ever and the machine will survive just fine. The spice must flow.
Dangle a golden carrot in front of (poor) people and they'll run through walls head first to get it. Consequences be damned.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 16, 2014, 10:28:34 AM
Dangle a golden carrot in front of (poor) people and they'll run through walls head first to get it. Consequences be damned.
In all fairness, if you're both poor and dumb, you might be willing to accept some CTE to get filthy stinking rich. In fact, a lot of people who aren't dumb and aren't poor may make that evaluation. Just like a lot of the players already in the league would rather take a hit on a part of their body where it will give them the shakes in their 50s rather than where it will end their career in their 20s.
Fewer and fewer players as the years pile on will cause the game to atrophy if nothing else, and there is no doubt whatsoever that fewer will be playing.
The number playing will probably hurt colleges, but the NFL will only be hurt by the number watching.
As long as Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, and Florida are above water, there will be no shortage of parents pushing their kids into football.
And right on cue I hear about this.
http://youtu.be/aFXpqZzFgy4
Texas.
http://www.npr.org/2014/01/31/269422083/sidelined-by-brain-injury-ex-nfl-player-copes-with-desperation
Sean Morey and his brain damage profiled by NPR.
it's not news, it's cnn
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/01/health/jenkins-nfl/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
After watching League of Denial on PBS the other night, I agree with Dio. Except I don't think it's mom's keeping their kids from playing that ends/changes the NFL; it'll be legislation.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/403x308q90/835/mqt7.jpg)
More and more I keep coming to the conclusion for modern day players Boo freaking hoo. You made a crap ton of money in a short period of time, and you gave up a part of yourself to do so. You don't hear this shtein from Boxers or MMA guys, they understand the deal that they've made.
That's really what it's about, I think. Nobody can claim surprise about this anymore. It's about making that choice knowing the inherent risks, at least going forward.
Agreed. Henceforth, any person who allows their child to play football, or who, being of age, chooses to play football, ought to be either ineligible to sue for brain injuries and the like, or ought to have good lawyers who can make sure that whatever contract is signed makes crystal clear exactly what benefits will be owed the player, for how long, etc.
But we all know that's not gonna happen. Ignorant people are going to say they had no idea it was dangerous and crafty lawyers in service to billionairs will draw up contracts that provide for precious little support after the fact.
Nuke the world.
its still on the nfl to properly protect the players.....and thats always been the problem until very recently....
and what modern day players are complaining?....if anything they all complain that goodell is taking hitting out of the game
sadly this does not look like it will end well
http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/football/report-john-abraham-has-severe-memory-loss/nhKTF/
http://deadspin.com/concussed-cardinals-safety-couldnt-remember-game-he-jus-1653120445?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
I swear to you, this CTE is the end of the NFL as we know it. Year after year fewer and fewer kids will be allowed to play the game at all, and the talent will slowly shift to other sports, and eventually so will the fans.
no it wont, drama queen
I guarantee it.
As long as Texas high schools keep playing, we'll have an NFL.
Quote from: Diomedes on October 30, 2014, 10:59:46 PM
I guarantee it.
you dont even like sports or follow it
trust me, football isnt going anywhere or in any danger of falling apart. rich white people might not let their kids play it. and of course rich white people make up such a large percentage of the league.
When you got people like Ed Reed saying he won't let his kids play it, you have a much bigger problem than middle class white moms.
Boxing was once the national pasttime and it didn't die out because the managers are all shady. It died because the talent went away, and the talent went away because the antions taste for punching people in the face was lost, and fwer kids became boxers, etc.
Also that whole MMA thing.
Quote from: Diomedes on October 30, 2014, 11:12:50 PM
When you got people like Ed Reed saying he won't let his kids play it, you have a much bigger problem than middle class white moms.
Boxing was once the national pasttime and it didn't die out because the managers are all shady. It died because the talent went away, and the talent went away because the antions taste for punching people in the face was lost, and fwer kids became boxers, etc.
no
it went away because all the big fights are on ppv and watched by a fraction of the audience than before
again you dont like sports please stop talking about it
Which will never be bigger than it is now, either. There will always be a market for brutality, but when it becomes widely known that great numbers of people who engage in a certain activity become farging retards, even the retards tell their kids "you can play basketball instead, JaQuan."
Quote from: MDS on October 30, 2014, 11:18:15 PMit went away because all the big fights are on ppv and watched by a fraction of the audience than before
again you dont like sports please stop talking about it
If the audience were there, PPV couldn't compete with the money advetizers pay on regular teevee. Come on, Todd. This is basic shtein.
You're right though, I hate jocks and their fans, deeply. Worst examples of American society, basically.
boxing isnt a league....its the wild wild west
each fighter sets his own deals. mayweather makes more money off of ppv than he would if he sold his fight to espn. please stop talking about sports!
ive seen estimations where a mayweather-pacman fight would get 20-30 million if it was espn or nbc or something. id actually go higher than that. please stop talking about sports!
Quote from: Diomedes on October 30, 2014, 10:48:32 PM
I swear to you, this CTE is the end of the NFL as we know it. Year after year fewer and fewer kids will be allowed to play the game at all, and the talent will slowly shift to other sports, and eventually so will the fans.
Most fans don't even realize it yet but the football we all grew up to know and love is already dead. It is a thing of the past. Who thinks we'll see another defense like the late 80/early 90s with those personalities and those hits?
The obsessive intoxication with profiteering, opening every possible new revenue stream and shoving commercials down our throat is also soul killing to the sport.
The best the NFL could hope for is to replace good hard nose football with exciting big play offense, but they are shooting themselves in the foot even with that because of the absurd penalty calling and poor officiating.
The mistake they made was not incorporating a risk acceptance statement in the standard player contract... I understand football is dangerous and can result in injury and even death... I accept the risks and will not hold the NFL liable etc... etc... Boxing, MMA, and NASCAR accept injury as part (and sometimes the point) of the sport. Agree to the risk or don't play should have been the NFL's stance.
RIP good ole days, next they'll be playing with a pink striped football.
gross over exaggeration
but at least you like and watch sports
If Chuck Cecil played in today's NFL Goodell would have him arrested and Troy Vincent would empty his bank account.
Quote from: MDS on October 30, 2014, 10:49:50 PM
no it wont, drama queen
with dio its definitely more of a hope it happens than think its gonna happen...or at least 50/50
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 31, 2014, 12:20:18 AM
If Chuck Cecil played in today's NFL Goodell would have him arrested and Troy Vincent would empty his bank account.
you love brain damage
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 31, 2014, 09:09:46 AM
Quote from: MDS on October 30, 2014, 10:49:50 PM
no it wont, drama queen
with dio its definitely more of a hope it happens than think its gonna happen...or at least 50/50
he doesnt like sports....especially popular ones like football. fun kid to talk to though
he especially hates football tho...hes a true liberal so i cant hate...but he def wants it gone
I love brain damage? How do you figure?
Goodall not allowing junior seau's family speak at his HOF induction...in fact no one will induct him....he gets a video
this is beyond sickening
Why induct him at all? Dude is obviously a traitor.
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 24, 2015, 05:57:43 PM
Goodall not allowing junior seau's family speak at his HOF induction...in fact no one will induct him....he gets a video
this is beyond sickening
Slimeball maneuver to be certain.
i think its a pfhof decision, not goodell. if you believe them.
I won't watch it nor do I give a shtein about the ceremony. If an Eagle ever makes it, let me know. I'll ignore that too.
LOL @ anyone being surprised that a gag is being imposed, though. It's like some of you literally just fell off the turnip truck in here.
Not to defend the scumbbag NFL, but I'm pretty sure this was not a Junior Seau decision....I've read and heard a few things saying that the HOF decided to stop having people speak for deceased inductees a few years ago.
Quote from: MDS on July 24, 2015, 06:24:49 PM
i think its a pfhof decision, not goodell. if you believe them.
Supposedly the ban on deceased having anyone speak for them goes back to a couple years before Seau died. It would be an exemption from the policy to allow the family to speak. This isn't a case of singling out Seau's family.
Point is though, you make the exemption in a case like this. Particularly as it seems the family was already told they would be speaking, and their part in the video was filmed with that understanding.
The media pressure on this might be enough to make the Hall back down. If the Hall/Goodell (and the difference is academic) don't move on this it will say a lot to the extent they are willing to go to keep a lid on the CTE shtein.
Goodell doesn't want anyone reminding the paying customers that these dopes are literally killing themselves for our entertainment.
I can't blame him one bit. Suspension of disbelief FTMFW.
we will show a video of him making great plays that caused his death but we will fold the league before we let his daughter on stage to possibly mention or remind people why he died
As a science guy, I feel I need to point out that it's not as simple as saying:
football ---> CTE ----> depression ----> suicide
CTE is nowhere close to well understood yet. Saying that playing football lead to Junior Seau's suicide has the exact same amount of scientific weight behind it as someone at the NFL claiming it didn't.
His brain rotted out from all the books he read.
His brain rotted out from contact sports. The link that hasn't been scientifically established is the brain rotting leading to suicide. It's more linked to ALS, Parkinson's, things like that.
Here's (http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/48/2/162.long) the current state of the science on the issue as summed up by the president of the National Academy of Neuropsychology, who is part of the research group in Harvard's football players health study program.
Violently smashing your head into things hundreds if not thousands of times over the span of 10 or 20 years causes, (surprise!) brain damage.
The only surprising thing to me is that more of these guys don't off themselves sooner.
Quote from: Diomedes on July 24, 2015, 09:28:13 PM
His brain rotted out from all the books he read.
haha
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/battle-for-benefits-part-1-why-do-i-have-to-fight-you-now
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/battle-for-benefits-part-2-george-visgers-many-lives
but durrrrr da nfl game is so soft durrrrr so many flags durrrrrrrrrrrr theres no more defense durrrrrrrrrr
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sports/concussion-watch/new-87-deceased-nfl-players-test-positive-for-brain-disease/
these injuries begin long before anyone gets to the nfl....and most evidence shows that it isnt the violent nature of the hit its the repetition over years and years....its why offensive lineman so often get it and get it so bad....cause they literally butt heads on every play bot practice and game their whole lives
theres no correlation between rules in the nfl that favor the offense and cte
cornerbacks not being allowed to put a finger on receivers hurts the game but has nothing to do with cte
on the flip side there are rules that prevent concussions but dont hurt the quality of the game....ie spearing or helmet to helmet hits
http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/09/27/brains-under-pressure-concussion-crisis-continues-to-haunt-the-nfl/
http://www.phillyvoice.com/autopsy-nfl-ex-player-who-killed-himself-had-brain/
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-autopsy-concussion-athlete-20160104-story.html
QuoteAutopsy finds concussion-related brain changes in 25-year-old former football player
.....
The young man died of cardiac arrest resulting from a staph infection of the tissues surrounding the heart. His case is unusual in that before his death, he enrolled in a research study called Understanding Neurological Injury and Traumatic Encephalopathy, part of an effort to recognize the signs of CTE in living people.
As a result, researchers have detailed results of neuropsychological testing performed on the man before his death. Those tests showed that his overall levels of intellectual function were normal and that he was readily able to remember and describe key events from his past. But his short-term memory and some elements of executive function were noticeably impaired.
......
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZG66X3UgAARHdA.jpg)
romey's care factor:
You're right. I couldn't care less about you or your opinion.
team brain damage RISE UP
I'm just glad you're finally coming to terms with it.
27
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/sports/football/former-giants-safety-tyler-sash-found-to-have-cte.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=https://t.co/LyGEcD8TNI
good job by IANOC
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14744263
NFL is like the Army, Marine Corps, and Navy. Aside from those joining ranks to fight for our country, those looking for a better chance at life will always enlist, knowing they put themselves in harm's way. Same thing with the NFL, there will always be a poor black or white kid out there looking for a way out of poverty. Even if it means he risks his future health, for millions of dollars now.
agreed except almost any kid can join the military...where as you can chose not to play football and never have to think back and say damn I would have made it cause virtually no one goes on to make millions of dollars....or could choose to play a sport that doesn't rot your brain and have the same minuscule chance of making the pros
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/23/sports/dementia-care-tailored-to-nfl-retirees.html?ref=sports&smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur&_r=0
http://www.thenation.com/article/kevin-turner-dies-from-als-nfl-does-not-give-a-damn/
QuoteHe did help, not that the NFL wants you to know about his work. When Kevin Turner passed, there was no statement from the league. There was not even an original article on its website, NFL.com. Instead, it just posted a reprinted report from the Associated Press. Instead, we had to hear Jerry Jones, Bruce Arians, and, through his silence, Roger Goodell effectively scoff at Kevin Turner's work and the last years of his life. Perhaps Goodell is being quiet because he is working on his acceptance speech for an honor he is being given by the Jacksonville Sports Medicine Program called the Leadership in Sports Health, Safety & Research Award. This is not a joke. To see Roger Goodell so honored concurrent with Kevin Turner's death is to bear witness to the sports version of seeing Henry Kissinger win the Nobel Peace Prize.
That's a pretty solid rip job...and true
https://www.instagram.com/p/BD4PRAkKfHy/
A.J. Tarpley (Bills LB) retires after one year, citing concussions.
Unfortunate use of the word 'gracious' in there, made me wince for the guy. A Stanford grad ought to know better, even a football player.
That was just the concussions talking.
awesome league
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/15667689/congressional-report-finds-nfl-improperly-intervened-brain-research-cost-taxpayers-16-million
oh look, it's not just football
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/health/dave-mirra-cte-bmx-biker/index.html
So, repeatedly banging your head with concussive force ISN'T good for you in the long run? Mind. Blown.
another sad story....
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/sports/hockey/stephen-peat-nhl-enforcer-concussions-cte-health.html?smid=tw-share
OMG wah. They're gladiators. They know what they're getting into so spare me the tears.[/DIO]
maybe not in any of our lifetimes but you have to believe one day there will be no football
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20160805_Sielski__Bryan_Scott_s_story_should_terrify_everyone_who_loves_football.html
Talent is already on the move to other sports. We've seen the peak of the NFL.
I hope it's to either soccer to piss IGY off or golf to piss you off.
Golf isn't a sport.
If you drink beer and sweat while playing it, it's a sport.
Your dick is not a sport.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/03/health/kevin-turner-cte-diagnosis/index.html
Turner did not have ALS
He had the most advanced stage of CTE - that's horrible
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/charlie-garner-cte-concussions-brain-disease-nfl-career-raiders-49ers-eagles-buccaneers/1rffdra72ph0k1e3fmmftqte0j?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
http://accmag.com/86-deceased-nfl-players-test-positive-for-brain-disease/
86 of 91 tested
Numbers skewed of course, as those tested are not necessarily representative of all football players, all pro player, etc.
All the same...it's looking more and more like permanent brain injury is part of playing the sport. Until they design a helmet that keeps the brain from rattling around inside the skull....
The real study that needs to be done is to determine a baseline of CTE prevalence in the general population. That's a bigger issue than the skew in the Boston University sample. Until then, this is all kind of science with an asterisk. I think there's plenty of evidence this is a real effect, but we can't say much about magnitudes.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716796-warren-sapp-to-donate-brain-to-cte-concussion-research
To be of any use, Sapp's brain needs to go to this lab (http://www.azonano.com/nanotechnology-video-details.aspx?VidID=354)
i clicked, and laughed
am ashamed
Well done.
We shouldn't be giving dumb taunts or digs, the guy now has CTE. But they could use that electron microscope to see his nano nano boo boo.
https://twitter.com/GeorgeFoster72/status/887392085875314688
99.1%
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/sports/football/nfl-cte.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur&_r=0
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/30/sports/espn-ed-cunningham-football-concussions.html
Quote"In its current state, there are some real dangers: broken limbs, wear and tear," Cunningham said. "But the real crux of this is that I just don't think the game is safe for the brain. To me, it's unacceptable."
Seems hypocritical to give zero fargs about a physical damage but then give all the fargs about brain damage.
I don't see it that way at all. Bones break, ligaments tear. They also heal. Usually well enough so that the person can live a relatively normal life, even if the injury(s) brought an immediate end to their career. Yup, a pro athlete, especially a football player is likely to have severe physical discomfort later in life. Same goes for a ditch digger, a cop, a soldier, a or anyone else who performs physically demanding, back breaking work...only they get paid far less to deal with it.
Brain damage is permanent. Ain't no coming back from that. Not even a little bit.
yeah its like comparing getting a headache to getting alzheimers
shtein even wendall davis lives a normal life and the vet ate both his legs
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 25, 2017, 11:58:01 AM
99.1%
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/sports/football/nfl-cte.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur&_r=0
Don't get too taken in by the media sensationalizing, though. The real question isn't the prevalence of CTE in football players, it's about how many of those players are symptomatic, and if it affects their quality of life.
CTE, in the researchers sense, refers to structural changes in the brain, but it may or may not have any effect on the person. If you did autopsies on a group of 110 plumbers you might find 99.1% of them have artery plaque build up. It could be most weren't aware of it and didn't experience anything especially detrimental, but a few did go on to die from a heart attack. But not 99.1%. The media tries to make CTE and the effects that can come from it synonymous. If that were the case you wouldn't see groups like old HOFer get togethers or the '72 Dolphins popping champagne late in a season when the last undefeated team goes down. They'd all be a drooling incoherent mess. Sad and unfortunate for those who do succumb, but it isn't anything near what the media likes to suggest. Key data that McKee et al. have released that puts things into perspective have been conveniently ignored in print and screen media.
Add Aaron Hernandez to the list of players who suffered from CTE.
this is huge....it's one thing to have memory loss and depression after you retire
it's a whole nother thing to be turned into a murderer at 27
uhhh he was a sociopath long before his brain was mush
almost certainly not true altho no one knows for sure....but either way the optics will be that he murdered three people because of cte and thats the important part
he was into gang shtein when he was at florida and later in high school in connecticut
im not saying cte didnt cause him to do crazy shtein but he was a worthless human being with a death wish. remember when bunk was talking to omar at the train tracks and he described how we went to party with some hard boys and they told him to get lost school boy, this aint for you? well aaron hernandez was bunk except he didnt get lost and also he had cte.
yea i shoehorned a wire reference sue me
si wrote an amazing article a year or two ago about hernandez thru the eyes of his brother...everyone should read it...but anyway he didnt start going HAM until florida
but more than that his cte was so advanced that it was the kind youd see in a 70 year old man....so it must have started early
He was a disgusting bullying piece of shtein. The world is better off with him dead.
High school photo of him throwing Bloods gang signs. FTB.
(https://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/aaron.jpg)
cte is a serious problem. more & more parents are not allowing their kids to play football because of concussion risks. but where do you think this goes, longer term? no more football? or a version of football closer to flag than what we see now?
or just minor rule/equipment changes since the nfl pretty much prints money? :deion
it will never stop until kids stop playing it which may happen one day but not in any of our lifetimes
wouldnt be suprised tho if sometime relatively soon congress starts to regulate its safety
some youth leagues have already switched over to flag...plenty of tackle leagues still around though...the vast majority.
Quote from: ice grillin you on September 22, 2017, 01:01:51 PM
it will never stop until kids stop playing it which may happen one day but not in any of our lifetimes
wouldnt be suprised tho if sometime relatively soon congress starts to regulate its safety
its a multibillion dollar business it is not being regulated like that
amateur boxing they wear padding on their heads. football simply needs the equivalent of that. whether thats foam helmets or just playing flag until high school i dont know.
Quote from: MDS on September 22, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on September 22, 2017, 01:01:51 PM
it will never stop until kids stop playing it which may happen one day but not in any of our lifetimes
wouldnt be suprised tho if sometime relatively soon congress starts to regulate its safety
its a multibillion dollar business it is not being regulated like that
this little podunk entity called wall street gets regulated
wall streert doesnt own a day of the week
correct
it owns 365 days
im not saying its 100% going to happen but the nfl isnt near big enough to escape regulation...its already regulated in a sense that sports betting is regulated and the nfl wouldnt close to what it is without betting....if the nfl was all powerful sports betting would have been legal decades ago
How is the government going to regulate concussions? Make it illegal for players to get concussions and if they do, then they get fined?
What's going to happen is the game will slowly but inevitably become less and less entertaining as talent goes to other games. We'll still have the NFL for our lifetimes, but we've seen it's peak already. The decline is under way and in 25 years the NFL ain't going to be the dominant sports league in the United States.
CTE has been found in players of football, hockey, boxing, MMA, soccer, baseball, wrestling, and BMX. It's very likely present in elevated numbers among skiers, snowboarders, cyclists, skateboarders -- basically anything that either can concuss you or repeatedly rattle you. This football thing is just the first wave, and the most studied. It's coming to all contact sports.
After that, people will start asking obvious questions about various non-sports occupations.
We need a ton of more research across a variety of activities. Even with the highly studied NFL brains, the sample sucks because it's not random. We also need good research on the "normal" prevalence of CTE in the general public. Then people can compare rates of injury and decide for themselves what level of risk they are willing to accept.
If your kid is tall, basketball hasn't been implicated yet. Otherwise there's always tennis and golf.
Good post and I agree.
I've had 6 concussions and god knows how many times my "bell was rung" and I saw stars or was woozy for a bit.
Twice with my concussions I had really bad symptoms. One from football caused me to stutter and have altered speech to several weeks.
Sometimes I wonder if those 6 and the other dings were enough to develop it.
I don't want to alarm you, but CTE has been definitively linked to dementia, suicide, and making message board posts demonstrating irrational affection toward practice squad-level running backs.
That also explains the note he sent Wentz
Oh farg!
Nice knowing you guys.
The head knocks would definitely explain the irrational "5" love.
Five will always love you, Rome
DON'T kill yourself, Phreak. There's plenty of others out there who deserve to be offed instead.
lol thanks man
I'd just haunt igy and mds anyways
if youre gonna go make a run at 1600 pennsylvania ave and see who you can take with you
youll be remembered a hero
Obumma isn't President anymore
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 23, 2017, 06:28:54 AM
lol thanks man
I'd just haunt igy and mds anyways
You already do, apparently.
Phreak, remember, mandatory gunshot to the chest if you're going to off yourself.
So don't be an icehole, and do it any other way. Because, that's just being a fleshpop.
Yep gotta keep the cleanup easy and my brain whole
Plus I don't wanna look bad as a ghost with half a head
Helium, gorilla tape and a trash bag.
Bye.
Speedballs until your heart literally explodes. Hookers to pass the time while you snort enough of the cocaine and heroin mixture to make your heart explode.
Bye.
Yes!
So what's it like in IGY's head? Is it nice and luxurious or is it all Section 8ey and shtein?
lolol
It smells like rum and The Wire is on a constant loop
https://twitter.com/LiamWBZ/status/926594539212673025
https://twitter.com/therendernfl/status/939936269924225024
Baaaaad
thats why i dont watch the nfl anymore
its as bad as ufc now
A new study shows that hits to the head, not concussions, cause CTE (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/01/18/a-new-study-shows-that-hits-to-the-head-not-concussions-cause-cte/?utm_term=.d913821d5e47)
QuoteThe researchers in the new study looked at the brains of four teenage athletes who had sustained closed-head impact injuries anywhere from one to 128 days before death and found the results particularly alarming. Two were 18 and two 17; two died by suicide. One died suddenly 10 days after the second of two sports-related head injuries, the fourth succumbed after sustaining three sports-related concussions (26 days, 6 days and the day before death.) The last concussion came during a football game in which the player absorbed a hard tackle and landed on his helmet. Analysis of their brains showed a range of post-traumatic pathology that included one case of early-stage CTE and two cases with abnormal accumulation of tau protein, a CTE marker typically found in small blood vessels in the brain.
"You get hit the first time and a minute later you get hit again. We learned that from blasts because those happen in milliseconds. In football, it happens in minutes, tens of minutes or over a day or week. But the cumulative effect, when the brain is not fully healed, particularly in younger people, is really, really damaging," Goldstein said, "and that's the problem. You won't see it by focusing on concussion. In fact it's guaranteed that you won't see it.
Thought this had already been established, but OK. Either way, there is a shelf life on the game of football as we know it. Get your fill now because it won't be long before its current form is done away with.
It's already dying. Millions of mothers across the country are shrinking the talent base every year.
"No baby, sorry. Play basketball or soccer."
Quote from: rjs246 on January 19, 2018, 12:28:20 PM
Thought this had already been established, but OK. Either way, there is a shelf life on the game of football as we know it. Get your fill now because it won't be long before its current form is done away with.
I don't understand why more people don't grasp this inevitability. If I owned a team, I wouldn't be able to sell it fast enough while the getting is good.
Quote from: Diomedes on January 19, 2018, 12:45:59 PM
It's already dying. Millions of well-to-do white mothers across the country are shrinking the talent base every year.
"No baby, sorry. Play basketball or soccer."
Quote from: rjs246 on January 19, 2018, 12:28:20 PM
Thought this had already been established, but OK. Either way, there is a shelf life on the game of football as we know it. Get your fill now because it won't be long before its current form is done away with.
nope
participation will continue to go down, in some ways it will be dramatic, but there will be always be enough people to fill out high school teams, college teams and nfl teams. will the product suck more? maybe. but it will exist.
and the qb will still continue to get the most Hoyda out of anyone so no shortage of pretty white rich kids will be lining up for that.
Poor black kids don't like Hoyda?
If repeated sub-concussive head hits are the issue, soccer is going down along with football.
Sure, football will continue in our lives, but it's dying. Literally every year, less talent is going into football, and more is going into other sports. And despite what Todd thinks, plenty of poor black mothers are making the same call. I've spoken to a few about it and heard from they own mouths.
F'n Ed Reed said he won't let his kids play. Trust me, people hear that kind of thing.
Boxing was once king of all sports. These things change.
Football isn't going anywhere you freaks
Quote from: Diomedes on January 19, 2018, 03:13:25 PM
Boxing was once king of all sports. These things change.
so was horse racing
boxing isnt as popular anymore because theres so many more options not because of the physical damage it does and theres more talented boxers now than there has ever been
even today in its diminished popularity there are few sporting events more popular than a huge fight
boxing also killed itself by putting big fights on ppv and having its most popular star (tyson) be a legit lunatic and not in a fun way
mexicans love boxing almost as much as soccer
Boxing's biggest detriment has probably been the lack of great heavyweights since the Tyson/Holyfield era. A legit boxing fan will watch lightweights or middleweights or any other weight class, but casual fans are mostly in or out based on the heavies.
The Klitschko brothers are as great as anyone, but no one cares because they're Ukrainian.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 21, 2018, 01:43:23 PM
Boxing's biggest detriment has probably been the lack of great heavyweights since the Tyson/Holyfield era. A legit boxing fan will watch lightweights or middleweights or any other weight class, but casual fans are mostly in or out based on the heavies.
there is some truth to this but ultimately people love superstars more than anything....so in that sense weight class doesnt matter. even if boxing had tyson jr right now it would still be mitigated by the fact that people cant easily watch these fights.
thats what happens when the sport has no governing body. its the wild west and its run by evil men who would sell their child for a profit.
QuoteIllinois took a significant step toward becoming the first state to ban organized tackle football at the youth level.
HB 4341, also called the Dave Duerson Act, would prohibit any child under 12 from participating in organized tackle football. The measure passed out of the Illinois House mental health committee on an 11-9 vote Thursday and now heads to the House for a full debate and vote.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 01, 2018, 09:45:18 PM
Illinois took a significant step toward becoming the first state to ban organized tackle football at the youth level.
HB 4341, also called the Dave Duerson Act, would prohibit any child under 12 from participating in organized tackle football. The measure passed out of the Illinois House mental health committee on an 11-9 vote Thursday and now heads to the House for a full debate and vote.
I think I'm on record as saying football will be in it's death throes in my lifetime because of a wide variety things, including this. That said...that law is pretty stupid. From 6-9 was the only age I was cool with my kid playing tackle football, because none of the kids had any real power to block or tackle. 12 is really where it STARTS to get dangerous.
Holy shtein this country is turning into Hoyda central.
Rypien tried to commit suicide, blames CTE
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22968747/mark-rypien-former-super-bowl-mvp-washington-taterskins-says-attempted-suicide
Thought this was rather interesting:
QuoteResearchers from the CDC's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) analyzed suicide death rate data on 3,439 retired NFL players. All the men played football for the NFL for at least five seasons between 1959 and 1988. The scientists compared the findings with the suicide death rate for men matched for race and age in the general population.
They found that the rate of suicide among the former NFL players was actually lower than the suicide rate in the general population. Between 1979 to 2013, there were 12 suicide deaths in the NFL group compared with 25 suicide deaths in the group of other men, according to the study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-findings-on-former-nfl-players-and-suicide-risk/
That study begs the question: if NFL vets commit suicide at a lower rate than a control group of similar age and race men, how do NFL vets compare against a control group of other extremely accomplished athletes whose sport doesn't routinely cause brain damage, like basketball players?
Quote from: Diomedes on April 11, 2018, 02:46:53 PM
whose sport doesn't routinely cause brain damage, like basketball players?
Basketball is a contact sport in which players are routinely jostled around, whacked with stray limbs, and falling to the floor. Plenty of people in basketball suffer concussions. Just ask Joel Embiid. An unstudied sport is not a safe sport. When the data is complete, there probably will be few sports unaffected by CTE -- especially team sports. Once this problem is fully understood, parents and their kids will have to decide how much additional risk they are willing to accept. It will probably have to be more than zero, unless they are really into tennis, golf, and swimming.
I do agree with your overall point that the control group should be as much like NFL players as possible, without bouncing their heads around. They should be much more wealthy, famous, and physically fit than the general population, as all of those things influence suicide rate. Good luck finding that group, though.
Quote from: QB Eagles on April 11, 2018, 03:27:43 PM
I do agree with your overall point that the control group should be as much like NFL players as possible, without bouncing their heads around. They should be much more wealthy, famous, and physically fit than the general population, as all of those things influence suicide rate. Good luck finding that group, though.
The control group should feature athletes of some kind, to capture the physical comparison, and it should be a group of people who are highly highly accomplished. NFL players are more than one in a million each, so I'd like the control group to be composed of people who have achieved the highest level of their particular pursuit, not just rich and famous. If basketball doesn't fit the bill because they bump heads sometimes, then perhaps tennis, or track and field, etc...
Joe Schmo who never achieved anything is not a good comparison to someone who became the best at what he does when trying to get a look at something as complicated as suicide.
numerous hockey players mostly players who fought a lot have committed suicide
They're White so they matter more, right racist?
https://twitter.com/DorothyERoberts/status/1298621539768770560
Long read, so short attention span folks with low critical thinking skills be warned (looking squarely at you, Todd), and it's behind a paywall....
but this is a thoroughly reported and well written summary of the state of Football in America:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/interactive/2023/football-participation-decline-politics-demographics/?itid=hp-top-table-main_p001_f006
Quote from: Diomedes on December 18, 2023, 09:03:37 AMLong read, so short attention span folks with low critical thinking skills be warned (looking squarely at you, Todd)
Lolol