The 'Mass-Shooting In The US' thread

[Sgt PSN]

Absolutely not. I don't like it when the GOP acts like a bunch of babies when they don't get their way, so I can't rightly support Dems for doing the same thing.

[PhillyPhreak54]

That's where I am on it too. Two wrongs doesn't make a right

However some posturing and threatening of doing it could open some eyes

[Sgt PSN]

Even just the threat of a shutdown will send the right into a downright frenzie. Nevermind the fact that the GOP has forced a shutdown of their own, we all know that they have very short memories when it comes to this shtein. Not to mention that as we approach an election year, the last thing Dems need or want is for the voting public to even think that they so much as considered a shutdown.  Voters aren't very good at remembering specifics and the GOP platform during campaign season would basically be "Hey, remember when the Dems wanted to shutdown the Gov't last year?"  And idiots out there would eat it up.

[PhillyPhreak54]

It would be detrimental to the democrats for sure

But what will it takes for something serious to be done?

[Sgt PSN]

Short of rounding up every gun on the planet and melting them down, what do people really expect reform to accomplish?  Serious question. What's the actual end game?

I've said for years that I'm on board with some moderate reform to make it harder for the wrong people to legally purchase guns, but what's that really going to solve? 

As much as we have a problem with gun violence in this country, there's really no legislation that can even slightly improve things, let alone make a significant change.

The change has to be in our culture more than anything else.

[ice grillin you]

Short of rounding up every gun on the planet and melting them down, what do people really expect reform to accomplish?  Serious question. What's the actual end game?.

its not an end game its a nooks and cranny game

how about it not being as easy to  purchase a gun as it is a slurpee

how about having to register a gun like you do a car

how about gun shows 'showing' guns instead of selling them under no regulation

how about banning fully automatic weapons...machine guns were everywhere until a law was passed

the answer to your question is that there are literally dozens of ways we could curb gun violence if America (both right and left) would gow a set and vote on real legislation instead of catering to the three thousand people in their district that will keep them in office

[PhillyPhreak54]

Agreed.

I am not for a total ban but the fact that they're so easy to obtain is what needs to be addressed. The fact is that the US has a massive problem that other countries do not have when it comes to shootings.

Why is that?

So the change that needs to happen is the tightening up on the availability and ease in which it is possible for just about anyone to buy a gun.

Because the way it has been done is not working. No one needs an AR-15 or any weapon similar to that. They are not hunting guns (well they are for human hunting). Extended mags aren't needed for handguns.

The "don't tread on me and take my guns" crowd thinks pro-gun reform people want them all wiped off the face of the earth. But its not even that. Limit what John Q Public is allowed to own/buy. Make them heavily regulated via registration.

And lets be real about owning a gun...most people are NOT equipped to handle themselves as they believe they are with a weapon. The ones who think they can shoot a human being, and be a good enough shot, to shoot the offender while the adrenaline is flowing are in for a rude awakening should they ever get in that situation.

The NRA folks want everyone armed. But if something pops off in a crowded place, like say a theater or school campus, are these people to be trusted to calmly draw their weapon and hit the intended target? I'd say no. I am willing to bet that they'd squeeze off a couple that miss and probably hit an innocent bystander. What happens then? I mean we already see cases of people (Zimmerman, etc) who abuse the law and shoot and then try to make a narrative fit as to why they killed someone. Remember the dude who killed the kid for his stereo being too loud?

I believe in owning a handgun. And I would be willing to have it registered and pay a yearly registration fee. I would also be wiling to submit myself to whatever lengthy background check and waiting period that goes along with it. I do not believe in owning arsenals nor do I believe in owning long guns outside of a shotgun and hunting rifle.

Sarge I am sure you saw people in your military career who weren't good shots or people who you did not exhibit the mental capacity to be trusted with weapons outside of the controlled military environment.

I remember when I had to qualify on the range for the prison...we had people out there who made me scared to stand next to. Swinging a loaded shotgun back towards the group because they jacked the round in wrong. Shooting only 5 of the 6 shots in the .357 and then turning towards the instructor with the other round still live...

First time I ever did a transport into a public place? I was nervous. Obviously we were armed when we did them. I had to escort a guy into a doctors appt in Austin. This was a free-world clinic so there were kids and regular people in the lobby.

All I could think about was if this guy tries to do something I am going to have to draw and shoot him...my adrenaline was flowing and I couldn't wait to get away from that clinic. I was only 20 years old.

People say "well how do you even begin to regulate and fix this"...there's only one way to eat an elephant and that is bit by bit. Gotta start somewhere....

[ice grillin you]

don't get me wrong im for a total ban...but thats not even remotely realistic...but in lieu of that cant we meet in the middle and let less people die...every other industrialized country in the world has strict gun laws and minimal gun deaths....we know it works we just wont do it....cuz merica!!!

[PhillyPhreak54]

Another thing that annoys me is when the pro-gun folks look down their noses at the "gun free zones" as if they are advertisements for people to go commit mass killings there.

I heard this somewhere the other day....remember back in the day when it was commonplace to not wear a seat belt and to also grab a beer or two for the road? Then both of those stopped in the name of making the roads safer. Were people overly against those changes?

The other day here in the wild wild west aka Houston some dudes decided they wanted to go shoot up a house because of a beef with an older teenager in the family. They unloaded on the place and ended up killing a 6yr old who was asleep in his bed. Is that OK for the people who support guns? If that happened to an NRA/congressman family would they just shrug their shoulders and say shtein happens?

[Don Ho]

Short of rounding up every gun on the planet and melting them down, what do people really expect reform to accomplish?  Serious question. What's the actual end game?.

its not an end game its a nooks and cranny game

how about it not being as easy to  purchase a gun as it is a slurpee

how about having to register a gun like you do a car

how about gun shows 'showing' guns instead of selling them under no regulation

how about banning fully automatic weapons...machine guns were everywhere until a law was passed

the answer to your question is that there are literally dozens of ways we could curb gun violence if America (both right and left) would gow a set and vote on real legislation instead of catering to the three thousand people in their district that will keep them in office

IGY you beautiful SOB.  Well said my man, well said.

[Sgt PSN]

Short of rounding up every gun on the planet and melting them down, what do people really expect reform to accomplish?  Serious question. What's the actual end game?.

its not an end game its a nooks and cranny game

how about it not being as easy to  purchase a gun as it is a slurpee

how about having to register a gun like you do a car

how about gun shows 'showing' guns instead of selling them under no regulation

how about banning fully automatic weapons...machine guns were everywhere until a law was passed

the answer to your question is that there are literally dozens of ways we could curb gun violence if America (both right and left) would gow a set and vote on real legislation instead of catering to the three thousand people in their district that will keep them in office

I'm down with pretty much all of that, but in the end I really don't see any of these ideas being all that effective.  It would mostly be a fluff law....something that will supposedly make a lot of people feel safer while actually doing very little to ensure actual safety. 

So while I'm not going all "don't tread on me/2nd amendment nutso" who wants to arm school teachers and students, I just don't think that there's any legislation ideas out there that will make a tangible, noticeable difference. 

[Sgt PSN]

No one needs an AR-15 or any weapon similar to that. They are not hunting guns (well they are for human hunting). Extended mags aren't needed for handguns.

No one needs a car that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds or tops out at 200mph.  But they're cool as shtein and people want them.  If you want to regulate one thing based on what people need vs what they don't need, then you need to regulate everything that people don't actually need.  And who makes the determination as to what is necessary and what isn't? 

The "don't tread on me and take my guns" crowd thinks pro-gun reform people want them all wiped off the face of the earth. But its not even that. Limit what John Q Public is allowed to own/buy. Make them heavily regulated via registration.

Technically, this actually is in direct contrast to the 2nd amendment.  Part of the purpose of the amendment is so that people can defend themselves and their property from the fed gov't should the feds ever decide to wage war against the people.  So if we start putting limitations on what people can own, we do in a way, put more power in the feds' hands, and that's something I'm not really on board with.  Understand that my argument here isn't specifically about being pro-gun as much as it's about preventing the fed gov't from gaining more power.       

And lets be real about owning a gun...most people are NOT equipped to handle themselves as they believe they are with a weapon. The ones who think they can shoot a human being, and be a good enough shot, to shoot the offender while the adrenaline is flowing are in for a rude awakening should they ever get in that situation.

Agreed.  Which is why I would fully support some sort of required weapons safety and training program for any gun owner. 

The NRA folks want everyone armed.

The NRA is to gun rights as Al Sharpton is to Civil Rights.  Seriously....farg the NRA.  Bunch of paranoid whack jobs who are more concerned with whether or not Obama is going to raid their armory than they are with schools and movie theaters getting shot up, or toddlers picking up daddy's pistol of the nightstand and blowing his head off. But just because the NRA is group of deranged lunatics, that doesn't necessarily mean that taking a completely opposite stance from them is the right thing to do. 

I believe in owning a handgun. And I would be willing to have it registered and pay a yearly registration fee. I would also be wiling to submit myself to whatever lengthy background check and waiting period that goes along with it. I do not believe in owning arsenals nor do I believe in owning long guns outside of a shotgun and hunting rifle.

Luckily no one can or will force you to purchase a gun that you don't want.  But just because it doesn't fit in your comfort zone doesn't necessarily mean that others should have to live according to your beliefs.....ie: Kim Davis.

Sarge I am sure you saw people in your military career who weren't good shots or people who you did not exhibit the mental capacity to be trusted with weapons outside of the controlled military environment.

Oh yeah.....I saw plenty of people who were more likely to take out their own men rather than the enemy if they ever saw combat.  I also see plenty of really bad drivers every day who have no business being behind the wheel of a car.....unless they are actually behind the car and are getting run over. 

People say "well how do you even begin to regulate and fix this"...there's only one way to eat an elephant and that is bit by bit. Gotta start somewhere....

It's the end point that I'm more concerned with. 

[ice grillin you]

I'm down with pretty much all of that, but in the end I really don't see any of these ideas being all that effective.

why have any laws then

[Rome]

I'm all for background checks, registration, etc.  The problem is criminals will always get their hands on guns especially with 300 million of them in circulation in this country.   Sorry, but the cork is out of the bottle and the genie has escaped.  There's no going back.  There's no confiscating them either.  I mean, theoretically it's possible and I'd be all in if we had a legitimate chance to create a gun-free liberal utopia, but that's not going to happen.

We're savages and we're going to keep slaughtering each other.  It's in our DNA and there's no changing that now.

[Diomedes]

That's pretty much the deal.

We could improve things a bit by putting gun criminals in prison for draconian sentences.

Possess on illegally....20 years.

Point one at someone, 30  years.

Shoot at someone, 40 years.

Shoot someone, 50.

Kill someone, life.

No parole.  Gun crimes are worth building prisons for, and it's worth keeping people who break gun laws out of the playground.

See if that doesn't change some behavior over the course of a few decades.