2011 Philadelphia Phillies Season Thread (choking awful pos team, DIAF)

[ice grillin you]

you are arguing that a pitcher can pitch well and not get the win...while that may be true its an assinine billy beane type statement to say that wins for a starter dont matter


cliff lee cannot go a month without winning...if he does the team loses...thats a fact

phillies are 2-3 this year when he starts....that aint gettin you into the playoffs

[Munson]

And if the team would have gotten a few more runs in a couple of the games, they'd probably be 4-1, or 3-2.


So saying they can't lose when Lee is on the mound is correct....but Lee seems to be holding up his end of the bargain more often than not.


Which is why you're an idiot and need to let go of how many wins Lee has.



The team is 2-0 with Vance on the mound....Vance >>>> Lee!

[Eagles_Legendz]

you are arguing that a pitcher can pitch well and not get the win...while that may be true its an assinine billy beane type statement to say that wins for a starter dont matter


cliff lee cannot go a month without winning...if he does the team loses...thats a fact

phillies are 2-3 this year when he starts....that aint gettin you into the playoffs

No it's not.  I'm not using any crazy sabermetric statistics here.   Team wins are important.  Obviously.  If Lee doesn't win games, it hurts the Phillies, that's true.  The problem though is that wins and losses often go far beyond the pitcher.

The point is: ERA/WHIP/K per 9 and K:BB rates are the key stats in determining how a pitcher has pitched.  Normally those lead to wins.  There are cases (and years) where that's not the case.  See Felix Rodriguez last year who was basically .500 despite having his 2.27 ERA.  

[MDS]

you are arguing that a pitcher can pitch well and not get the win...while that may be true its an assinine billy beane type statement to say that wins for a starter dont matter


cliff lee cannot go a month without winning...if he does the team loses...thats a fact

phillies are 2-3 this year when he starts....that aint gettin you into the playoffs

lol they could make the playoffs with me as an everyday player

and they are losing this game because lowe is pitching out of his mind. lee just happens to be the opposing starter.

[ice grillin you]

you are arguing that a pitcher can pitch well and not get the win...while that may be true its an assinine billy beane type statement to say that wins for a starter dont matter


cliff lee cannot go a month without winning...if he does the team loses...thats a fact

phillies are 2-3 this year when he starts....that aint gettin you into the playoffs

lol they could make the playoffs with me as an everyday player

and they are losing this game because lowe is pitching out of his mind. lee just happens to be the opposing starter.

twist it anyway you want cliff lee is getting a loss and derek lowe is getting a win...because cliff lee fell apart for a half an inning...is it cliff lees "fault"... thats an argument but probably not...but again when cliff lee starts the phillies are an under .500 team...thats unacceptable for a one billion dollar pitcher...and yes a starting pitchers wins and losses does matter.....i dont even get how this is debatable

[Munson]

lol jesus christ this guy....^^^^

[ice grillin you]

loser carey has to call it a "rule book double" because hes smarter than all of us

[MDS]

you are arguing that a pitcher can pitch well and not get the win...while that may be true its an assinine billy beane type statement to say that wins for a starter dont matter


cliff lee cannot go a month without winning...if he does the team loses...thats a fact

phillies are 2-3 this year when he starts....that aint gettin you into the playoffs

lol they could make the playoffs with me as an everyday player

and they are losing this game because lowe is pitching out of his mind. lee just happens to be the opposing starter.

twist it anyway you want cliff lee is getting a loss and derek lowe is getting a win...because cliff lee fell apart for a half an inning...is it cliff lees "fault"... thats an argument but probably not...but again when cliff lee starts the phillies are an under .500 team...thats unacceptable for a one billion dollar pitcher...and yes a starting pitchers wins and losses does matter.....i dont even get how this is debatable

because right now lee could get the win and it would have nothing to do with him

if the phillies somehow get 4 runs here he gets the win, which would then mean him "falling apart" didnt matter. but if they dont score, he gets the loss.

but yet i guess it still means something about cliff lee's ability

[ice grillin you]

see this is where you dont get it...this isnt a judgement on cliff lee....its simply proof that a starters win total farging matters....and to say it doesnt is pretty much unfathomable

let go of your homerism for a minute and pretend we arent talking about a phillies pitcher

[ice grillin you]

that wasnt even good stuff...how does choke miss that

pos

[ice grillin you]

this is where the phillies really miss werth....he at minimum puts this ball in the gap if not a three run shot...francisco on the other hand is garbage

[MDS]

yea thats exactly what i was saying

gonzalez was loling and rofling at francisco up there. they have 0 respect for him and obviously should. hes a replacement level player trying to protect to left handers. not gonna happen.

see this is where you dont get it...this isnt a judgement on cliff lee....its simply proof that a starters win total farging matters....and to say it doesnt is pretty much unfathomable

let go of your homerism for a minute and pretend we arent talking about a phillies pitcher

fine.

pitcher 1 gives up 5 runs in the first inning and is pulled. in the 4th inning his team scores 7 runs. no decision. much deserved.

pitcher 2 gives up 0 runs in 9 innings. his team also scores 0 runs. game goes to extras and hes well out of it. no decision. much deserved.

pitcher 3 gives up 6 runs in 5 innings. his team down 6-0 but scores 10 runs in btm of the 5th, pinch hitting for him in the process. they hold on. he gets the win. much deserved.

pitcher 4 gives up 1 run in 8 innings but his team loses 1-0. he gets the loss. he sucks.

in any of those spots does the pitcher get the proper decision? no they do not. because the stat means nothing.

[ice grillin you]

yeah i dont do that money ball stuff....i go by wins and losses...and when a pitcher starts games and his team loses more than it wins that to me is not a good thing

we will just have to agree to disagree on this one as we have different philosophys

[ice grillin you]

btw how many games have the phils played this year against teams with .500 or above records?

[PhillyPhreak54]

So Polanco goes out hurt, eh? Pretty soon MDS will be the 3-hole hitter.

Pathetic 7th inning by the offense.