Game of Thrones

[Munson]

Yeah I think the Theon stuff from season 3 was as much about Ramsey as it was about Theon. Alfie Allen has done a great job last season and this season, though.

I actually don't mind the Theon story much at all, though I think they wasted too many scenes on it last season. They probably could have cut 2 or 3 of those scenes and dedicated that extra 10 or so minutes towards more Tyrion or Robb or etc time. The point would have still got across in terms of how farged up a dude Ramsey is.

I was really excited for Yara to go kick some Bolton ass after they betrayed the Starks, but the 'invasion' was very anti-climatic. We got about 20 seconds of an awesome fight scene and then Yara decided to bail. I think we're getting set up for a better battle of sorts at Moat Cailin, at least I'm hoping.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I do think the Theon stuff will become more interesting since it's not "lets just watch him tortured to a post" every episode.

My fear is last seasons handling of his arc has soured people for whenever he or Ramsay comes on screen.  Likewise, I think people got so sick of Ramsay last season that they hate his character (not in a fun way to hate like Joffrey). 

Like I said, I think as his story evolved beyond watching him get tortured, it'll be more interesting.  I worry the damage has already been done to a lot of viewers though.

[smeags]

is it sunday yet ?

[Eagles_Legendz]

is it sunday yet ?

going to be longer after next week because there's no new episode for memorial day weekend.  The final 3 happen after that.

[smeags]

great and i'll be stuck near cholly manuelville.

[QB Eagles]

Like I said, I think as his story evolved beyond watching him get tortured, it'll be more interesting.  I worry the damage has already been done to a lot of viewers though.

As someone who hasn't read the books, I am indeed finding the Theon storyline tiresome. Two seasons of farging torturing a guy. At first I thought it was more about making the audience regain sympathy for Theon after all the bad shtein he did at Winterfell, but I guess now it was more about establishing Ramsay Snow as the replacement sadist and one-note bad guy now that Joffrey's dead.

That's another reason the duo of Greyjoy (or Reek) and Snow have been so boring. Neither of them has any real agency. Reek is a broken slave and Ramsay Snow is a sadistic psychopath. I prefer characters with personalities that can't be fully described in two words, which is why I enjoy all the political intrigue in the South so much. Not too easy to relate to either Reek or Snow as human beings.

I also find it strange that generations of Starks were cool with all the stuff going down a few miles away from Winterfell at the Dreadfort. I know Roose Bolton is a sneaky bastich but come on.  The Starks have supposedly run the North for thousands of years, and they couldn't get rid of that nutjob flaying family the whole time? That's some pretty weak leadership, Starks. I bet Tywin doesn't put up with that kind of bullshtein in the west.

[Munson]

I think the Starks had put down more than a few Bolton uprisings in the past, but never wiped out the family. The Karstark house got it's start when Karlon Stark helped put down a Bolton uprising.

[Eagles_Legendz]

Like I said, I think as his story evolved beyond watching him get tortured, it'll be more interesting.  I worry the damage has already been done to a lot of viewers though.

As someone who hasn't read the books, I am indeed finding the Theon storyline tiresome. Two seasons of farging torturing a guy. At first I thought it was more about making the audience regain sympathy for Theon after all the bad shtein he did at Winterfell, but I guess now it was more about establishing Ramsay Snow as the replacement sadist and one-note bad guy now that Joffrey's dead.

That's another reason the duo of Greyjoy (or Reek) and Snow have been so boring. Neither of them has any real agency.

I've made a similar argument in the past.  I do think it's supposed to get you to feel somewhat sympathetic to Theon, but I think the main purpose is Ramsay as a character.  People who have become very sympathetic to Theon don't understand how some people last year gained sympathy/liked Jaime, while still hating Theon because Theon's treatment and ordeal were more extreme.  I said it comes down to agency.  Characters who don't have agency (Sansa/Theon/etc) just aren't as interesting.  I think Jaime is interesting for other reasons, but when you have no agency as a character, your potential appeal is limited.

[Diomedes]

What do you man "agency."  As in, they have no power of their own, no means by which to exert their own will?

[Eagles_Legendz]

I'm talking about it as characters who have no means to drive the plot forward by their own actions.  Watching Theon get tortured for a year with no independent action on his own / watching Sansa at the whims of power brokers in King's Landing, etc.  I still think you can feel sympathy for those characters (and I actually find Sansa to be somewhat interesting), but I do think the appeal is limited when the person is completely beholden to others and has no ability to act on his/her own. 

I actually disagree with QB regarding Ramsay though.  I think the bigger problem with his character has been that he isn't surrounded by interesting characters.  Sadistic psychopaths can be interesting when you give them some foil or interesting challenge (see Joffrey in King's Landing).  Ramsay just had Theon for an entire season.  If he begins to interact more with others I think his character can become more interesting than has been depicted so far.

[Munson]

We need mroe Ramsay/Roose interaction.

[QB Eagles]

What do you man "agency."  As in, they have no power of their own, no means by which to exert their own will?

As in moral agency. As in having free will and the ability to make independent decisions within some kind of moral framework. It's easy to see how that is denied to Theon. With Snow, I feel he's just a cartoonish psycho even well beyond Joffrey. Joffrey was an immature sadist getting drunk on power. Maybe it was due to Jack Gleeson's great acting, but the character never rang false to me the way that Snow does. There has never been an actual human being like Ramsay Snow, who can't even express one moment of humanity that isn't some kind of put-on to further his sadism....not in the worst nuthouse, not in the concentration camps, not in Genghis Khan's tribes has there been a human being like that. Daddy doesn't love him, so he turns into Jigsaw? C'mon. He might as well be a White Walker, as he's pretty much just a dangerous fantasy beast. And that's just a lot less compelling to me than watching the human characters try to navigate their world.

As I said, I haven't read the books, so maybe he gets more interesting. So far I'm bored.

To me, the Kings Landing stuff is still the highlight of the show. I could watch Tyrion, Jaime, Tywin, Cersei, Varys, and even the Tyrells all day. The actress who plays Arya is amazing and I love her storyline too. The Stannis stuff hasn't really gripped me yet, and the Daenerys storyline was getting as repetitive as Theon, marching from one slave city to the next. It seems like they are introducing some character flaws in her though, which will spice things up.

[Munson]

Holy farging shtein @ Littlefinger. Dude went from minor player to snapping on everyone. Did not see that coming tonight, goddamn. I figured he might get Lysa out of the picture eventually, didn't think he'd flat out kill her like that. Figured it'd be an undercover thing.

Arya/Hound scenes were really good again.

Once Cersei named the Mountain, I knew it would be Oberyn he'd be fighting, but the scene of him telling Tyrion he would be his champion was still really good. Love how fueled by revenge and hate he is. I still haven't been introduced to Oberyn in the books, as I skipped tyrion's chapter about meeting them out in front of Kings Landing since it came before the Red Wedding, but I get the feeling Pedro Pascal is nailing the part. If Tyrion makes it out alive, I hope he and Bronn are still friends.

Happy that Brienne now knows Arya is still alive. Wouldn't mind a Brienne/Hound/Arya badass tripod, but I know that probably wouldn't happen.

Looks like the Red Woman is going to try and sacrifice Shireen...hope that doesn't happen.

[Eagles_Legendz]

That Tyrion / Oberyn scene was one of the best the show has ever had IMO. 

[smeags]

wow, this show just gets better and better. the "only" thing that stinks is the wait until we see the mountain vs the viper.