Let's all talk about our experiences smoking weed. That'll be farging great.

[QB Eagles]

Sure, tar is the big carcinogen in cigs, but nicotine is hardly safe.  

As for snus:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18412245?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

So explain again why when I say "less harmful", you interpret that as me saying "safe"?

[Sgt PSN]

See, I learn something new every year on this board!

That's all great information about the h train, and persuasive. My main remaining problem is with how heroin addicts/users are treated because of the way the laws are set up around it.

I have some issue as well with lumping coke, heroin and meth into a group and saying that legalizing them would somehow open the floodgates of farged up drivers and make our roads unsafe. Sadly, I don't have any fancy science talk to back up my protestations so I'll just say I don't believe that would happen because a)plenty of people do those drugs now and b)the penalties would (theoretically) be the same for driving with a straw in your nose as they would for driving drunk so it would be illegal to do that and would carry penalties, blah blah blah.

SCIENCE!

I agree with all of this.  However, I would still be completely opposed to legalizing drugs like coke, heroin, meth, etc simply because of the damage that they do to your body.  And eventhough the gov't could (theoretically) legalize and regulate the drugs, what they can't do is regulate the method in which the users use them.  IE:  sharing needles, etc.  So while legalizing them would reduce drug "crimes" it still wouldn't eliminate many of the residual side effects from drug use that plague society.   Heroin junkies will still share dirty needles and pass the HIV around.  Homeless crackheads will still do anything for a $10 rock.....except now that rock costs $20. 

I just think that the effects that the "hardcore" drugs have on people are too much to overlook in order to legalize them.  Pot, shrooms, etc, are fine with me.  If a couple stoners want to lock themselves in the basement and toke up, eat twinkies and watch The Wall for 12 hours, then that's fine with me......just as long as they aren't doing this.

[4and26]

That's not only wrong...it's depressing...

Police believe the grave is that of an 11-year-old boy who died in 1921

[Phanatic]

MMH said everything I couldn't. Really I don't think users should be treated as criminals given the science behind the addiction. That is all.

[Cerevant]

I think the laws need to be orient toward the harm that an action does to others, not the harm one does to one's self.

That being said, drug abuse does do a lot of harm to others, and users categorized as "victims" are not accountable for that harm.  Who is responsible for the damage done to families who's breadwinner is now in rehab?  Who is responsible for the damage done  by an impaired driver who is not insured?

This doesn't even touch on the costs of health care.  Even if you ignore the fact that subsidized health care in the US is on the horizon, every person insured is "taxed" for the care of those whose health costs are exceptional.

So, who is going to pay for all this freedom?

[shorebird]

If a couple stoners want to lock themselves in the basement and toke up, eat twinkies and watch The Wall for 12 hours, then that's fine with me......just as long as they aren't doing this.

That is a terrible goulish story. Those kids should be caned.

[Diomedes]

So, who is going to pay for all this freedom?

The same people who are paying for all of that already, plus prisons, cops, courts, etc.?

[Diomedes]

7.2 million Americans either in jail, on probabation, or on parole

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/11/AR2008061103458.html?hpid=topnews

The number of people under supervision in the nation's criminal justice system rose to 7.2 million in 2006, the highest ever, costing states tens of billions of dollars to house and monitor offenders as they go in and out of jails and prisons.

According to a recently released report released by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, more than 2 million offenders were either in jail or prison in 2006, the most recent year studied in an annual survey. Another 4.2 million were on probation, and nearly 800,000 were on parole.

The cost to taxpayers, about $45 billion, is causing states such as California to reconsider harsh criminal penalties. In an attempt to relieve overcrowding, California is now exporting some of its 170,000 inmates to privately run corrections facilities as far away as Tennessee.

...

In 1980, about the time that tough sentencing laws, particularly for drug offenses, began to be passed by federal and state legislators, 1.8 million people were in the system and $11 billion was spent on corrections.

so much wrong with this I don't know where to start

farming out prisons to corporations is about as smart as farming out wars to corporations...conservatives just love both ideas

fact:  "tough on crime"=big government.

do we REALLY have 7.2 million people who need to be in our criminal system?  that's farging hard to believe 

on and on

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

do we REALLY have 7.2 million people who need to be in our criminal system? 

Agreed.  Kill 'em all; let God sort 'em out.

[Seabiscuit36]

Legalize and tax marijuana so people can spray it into their mouth. 

I still have no idea why the gubament doesnt recognize that locking someone up for weed is a waste of taxpayer money.  It should have the same laws around it that Alcohol currently has. 

[MadMarchHare]

Exactly.  You want the death penalty to carry weight?  Stack rank the prisoners based on criminal history.  When we need your bed, you take a dirt nap.  That'll teach 'em.

[ice grillin you]

seems like discussing whether weed should be legalized or not would be a pretty interesting debate

[Seabiscuit36]

I dont even smoke anywhere near where i used to, and i just look at as there is no financial benefit of it being an illegal narcotic.  Hell, even if the government said it could only be used recreationally at home, you would see a huge reduction of futile arrests.  2.5 Billion a year is sent to the DEA alone.  Its sickening what William Hurst and Harry Anslinger portrayed the drug as, and sold that to Congress.  Basically saying that it caused you to kill your family, and made the blacks more dangerous.  farging hilarious. 

[Seabiscuit36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_that_have_decriminalized_non-medical_marijuana_in_the_United_States

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

seems like discussing whether weed should be legalized or not would be a pretty interesting debate

I don't think it would be too interesting on this board.

For instance, I'm a "right wing zealout" that doesn't smoke weed, and I'm all for the legalization and regulation of marijuana for both medical and recreational use.