Game of Thrones

Munson · November 23, 2015, 04:41:41 PM

Quote from: SD on November 23, 2015, 12:26:33 PM
He's not dead he crawled under the dumpster

Olly threw Nick's body in front of Jon before the Brothers stabbed him

Munson · January 17, 2016, 12:57:49 AM

Random thoughts:

Lets assume Jon comes back, because obviously he does come back. If the thinking is that he won't actually be "Jon Snow" anymore, since they all keep saying he's dead, the implication is he comes back as a different name. The two most obvious guesses would be he's raised as "Azor Ahai", the lightbringer/the person Mel thought Stannis was....or he comes back as "Jon Stark". If it's Jon Stark, I don't think he can just come back with the name Jon Stark, he needs to be legitimized by a king I believe. Stannis offered, but he's dead now.

Does Davos, in his post as Hand of the King and, with no living heirs for Stannis, the Protector of the Realm, use his title to legitimize Jon? I imagine not many people would buy a lowborn "king" who is serving as King over nothing with no followers as actually being able to do it, but...it makes the most sense to me. I don't see how else he could become "Jon Stark".

Eagles_Legendz · January 17, 2016, 06:35:34 PM

I have no idea but I'm guessing with the Boltons flaying people left and right / being responsible for the destruction of House Stark that not too many people (in the north at least) will care about semantics like that. You're right under normal circumstances though so it'll be interesting to see if the show addresses it.

QB Eagles · January 17, 2016, 06:56:36 PM

I don't know if the term "Azor Ahai" has ever been used on the show.

As for Jon Stark, they could have some northern house say that Robb officially declared him the legitimate heir to the Northern throne once he found out that Bran was "killed".

Munson · January 17, 2016, 09:03:28 PM

Yeah that's true. They never addressed Robb's heir in the show, he definitely could have at some point off screen written a decree legitimizing Jon and naming him his heir.

QB Eagles · January 17, 2016, 10:21:10 PM

Quote from: Munson on January 17, 2016, 09:03:28 PM
Yeah that's true. They never addressed Robb's heir in the show, he definitely could have at some point off screen written a decree legitimizing Jon and naming him his heir.

It's something that must have been done, because with Bran considered dead, the heir would have become Sansa, giving her husband Tyrion Lannister lordship over the North. That's a fairly unacceptable outcome if Robb would have died in battle in the middle of the War of the Five Kings.

smeags · January 18, 2016, 07:53:43 AM

The jon stark angle sounds more on point to me as well. Robb had to be wise enough to protect his house as far as he could considering the environment.

Eagaholic · January 18, 2016, 08:35:07 AM

Seems to me the 3 ways people have become kings in westeros is by rights of succession, trickery or rebellion (basically kicking ass and taking it). If John can galvanize an army and defeat the Boltons as perhaps Mel saw, it's understandable he could claim King in the North.

The problems with that are - with what army? With westeros is such shambles maybe even the army of the Vale would be enough; Dorne and Highgarden are still on the sidelines and could form allegiances. If Margaery gets off unscathed , that is a big player.

More importantly though, what would Jon come back as? It would seem someone not completely alive, anything from a Beric (more likely) to a wight or WW. That may get in the way of him taking the IT. He could also be a Targaryan and team up with Dany to take it, if he took the rebellion/rights route.

Eagaholic · January 18, 2016, 08:41:05 AM

Also, what does Jon do with the Nights Watch? Especially Ollie. Another army he could have at his disposal is the wildlings, and have them take over The Wall.

smeags · January 18, 2016, 08:56:56 AM

I assumed the wildlings would help jon take out Thorne and the others who killed him. Except for ollie, I think he is forgiven.

smeags · January 18, 2016, 09:12:46 AM

Don't want to spoil the books for anyone that isn't this far in the series so I'll ask this about the show to those who are up to date in the series ...

[spoiler]
Are they completely cutting out lady stoneheart (catelyn) or may she show up still some how ?[/spoiler]

Eagaholic · January 18, 2016, 09:49:49 AM

There's a lot of rumor she'll be back. I was just thinking when I wrote my last post that it would be weird/fun to see her team up with Jon. It should be interesting to see all these different arcs start to come together.

smeags · January 18, 2016, 10:10:42 AM

Yeah I think it would suck if she is completely cut out. Like you said, be a little weird/sweet to see her be part of the help for job.

Eagles_Legendz · January 18, 2016, 10:38:49 AM

They have stated she's cut multiple times. Whether that's official or just propaganda I dunno.

QB Eagles · January 18, 2016, 11:10:28 AM

The Boltons seemed unrealistically powerful in their fight against Stannis. It seems to me that the Vale would be able to kick their asses, and Littlefinger already has semi authorization from Cersei to do it. I would expect a combo of Vale and Stark loyalists.

I don't see Jon Snow fighting the Watch, those guys are doomed anyway.