2011 Philadelphia Phillies Season Thread (choking awful pos team, DIAF)

[PhillyGirl]

Phreak, holy shtein. lol. Its above and beyond already.

[MDS]

the only thing above and beyond is donovan mcnabbs ballsack and j's chin

[PhillyPhreak54]

lol

I know - I'm just having fun.

[ice grillin you]

actually despite your psychosis regarding rube (who i hate as well but good god) you are actually correct when it comes to lee....gm's in general are overrated when it comes to acquiring free agents

theres two major problems with rube....one is his fault and one is the fanbases

the guy being a smug pretentious im the greatest baseball executive thats ever lived dick is on him

the fans are at fault in annointing the guy before hes ever won a single thing simply because he signed a guy for 120 million dollars....halladay and oswalt deals were good cliff lee deal was horrible....hes not the worst gm ever but hes yet to prove anything either....certainly not near worthy of all the praise he gets...i guarantee you a significant segment of the fanbase thinks he was the gm for the 08 title

this year will go a long way towards his legacy...he decided to try and win with a dominant staff and questions basically everywhere else...if that strategy wins a world series then he gets all the credit in the world....if they dont then its on him

[Rome]

lol

[Rome]

and by the way... ruben hasn't proven anything?  was he not the gm in 2009 when they won the pennant?  i know it's not the be all end all of winning but winning a pennant in baseball is huge.  i think he deserves credit for that, absolutely.

[SunMo]

he absolutely does some horrible shtein.  the lee trade to seattle was horrible.  raul's contract was horrible.  giving moyer 2 years after 2008 was bad.  giving Kendrick 2.8M this year to be a long man was terrible.

but he also made the halladay and oswalt deals which were good and he got cliff lee back.

it's a mixed bag and until he wins a title he probably shouldn't be as smug as he is.

[SD]

he absolutely does some horrible shtein.  the lee trade to seattle was horrible.  raul's contract was horrible.  giving moyer 2 years after 2008 was bad.  giving Kendrick 2.8M this year to be a long man was terrible.

but he also made the halladay and oswalt deals which were good and he got cliff lee back.

it's a mixed bag and until he wins a title he probably shouldn't be as smug as he is.

Gillick did some horrible shtein as well. Signing Barajas, Eaton, trading for Freddie Myers. I think Amaro and Gillick are about even in the good move bad move category.

[SunMo]

lol Freddie Myers, but i know what you mean.

yeah, I actually like Ruben but I'm not one of those people who thinks he's the greatest ever.

[ice grillin you]

and by the way... ruben hasn't proven anything?  was he not the gm in 2009 when they won the pennant?  i know it's not the be all end all of winning but winning a pennant in baseball is huge.  i think he deserves credit for that, absolutely.

they won a pennant with the same team that won the world series the year before...he had slightly more to do with that pennant than i did...thats as far as ill go

he absolutely does some horrible shtein.  the lee trade to seattle was horrible.  raul's contract was horrible.  giving moyer 2 years after 2008 was bad.  giving Kendrick 2.8M this year to be a long man was terrible.

but he also made the halladay and oswalt deals which were good and he got cliff lee back.

it's a mixed bag and until he wins a title he probably shouldn't be as smug as he is.

Gillick did some horrible shtein as well. Signing Barajas, Eaton, trading for Freddie Myers. I think Amaro and Gillick are about even in the good move bad move category.

please dont ever mention pat gillick and ruben amaro together again

also lets judge rubes moves in the next five years...specifically the moves he makes over the next three years when the team is falling apart because of age...lee move looks great now....but if they dont win a world series with him in the next two years then contracts like his and chokes in four years may make those moves not look quite as nice...also be interesting to see in five years when the team is in the gutter and rebuilding how he does

pat gillick was maybe the best gm ever at putting teams together...rube has done nothing of the sort...hes made some good power moves but hasnt assembled anything...the greats can tweak teams and put them together in a way that brings titles...not taking anything away from rube but if you have the payroll and the prospects most any gm can trade for a good player on a team that is dumping guys

[Eagles_Legendz]

The one thing I'll give Amaro credit for is he has balls.  He makes big moves on a repeated basis.  I'd rather have someone who erred on that side than the other.

[Rome]

Gillick made some awful moves too but everything came together with that group and they just roared through the playoffs as a result.

I think their getting back to the Series in '09 in this era is just as impressive an accomplishment as actually winning it the year before.  They got Lee & let's not forget they also got Pedro Martinez too, which was a very impressive pickup for basically nothing.

And LOL at him [...not assembling anything].  He got the best pitcher in baseball for minor leaguers before last year.  I don't care what else he did... that makes Amaro an absolute legitimate GM in my eyes.  Yeah, he was boneheaded for letting Lee walk but if you had to choose between Lee & Halladay, I don't think there's anyone other than maybe Lee himself who wouldn't make that choice.  Not only that, I still have a suspicion that trading Lee was a directive from above because of payroll, not because of the nonsense they said about restocking the farm system. 

[ice grillin you]

he inherited a world series winner...he didnt exactly assemble that team...but yes getting lee was a GREAT move

hes a legitimate gm...who said he wasnt...hes just incredibly overrated

so ownership gets the blame for trading lee but rube gets the credit for bringing him back...that exactly the kind of madness that this fanbase throws out there regarding rube and is exactly why hes so overrated...its like people lose thir kionds going out of their way to defend him

the lee or halladay thing is also a terrible excuse....he could have easily kept both

[SD]

lol Freddie Myers, but i know what you mean.

yeah, I actually like Ruben but I'm not one of those people who thinks he's the greatest ever.

Just out of curiosity, who thinks Rube is the greatest ever? Most people I come across think he's smug and a good GM but don't put him up on a pedestal.

In all fairness neither Rube or Gillick should be given as much credit as Wade for forming the Phillies.

[Sgt PSN]

In all fairness neither Rube or Gillick should be given as much credit as Wade for forming the Phillies.

Wade built the core through drafting, but he made terrible free agent signings and mid-season trades. 

Too early to tell with any of Gillick's draft picks, but he made his money in free agency and trades. 

The one thing I have wondered though is if Wade was blocked from the owners when trying to sign guys in free agency or when trying to make big trades before the deadline.  When the Phils won the series, Gillick hadn't brought in any real big names/big money guys, just some quality vets who fit in nicely.  Phils didn't really start becoming big $$ players until after they won it all.  That's when we got Raul's contract, trading for Lee, signing Polanco, trading for Doc, then Oswalt and then bringing back Lee.

Can't help but wonder if Wade was handcuffed a little by cheap owners.