The Race(ism)/Hate Thread

Started by ice grillin you, May 17, 2006, 08:02:52 AM

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Rome

Quote from: Diomedes on July 14, 2013, 10:34:54 AM
The jury had to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not shoot in self defense, but rather out of hatred, etc.

Without excellent evidence--video for example--that's essentially impossible.

I'm pretty sure Martin's bullet-pierced corpse is evidence of something and Zimmerman's innocence isn't it.   Again, a young black boy got murdered in the south and the killer got away with it.  Not exactly man bites dog type news.

SD

I take the racism aspect out of the equation because it clouts common sense. By Florida law precedent it's better to leave someone dead so they can't tell their side of the story.

Diomedes

Quote from: SD on July 14, 2013, 10:39:52 AM
So it's ok to follow someone for a half an hour even after the authorities told you to back off...confront them when you've seen them break no laws...get your ass beat and put a bullet in the kids chest when it doesn't work out for you. By Dio and the jury's reasoning there's not enough evidence to convict because Trayvons dead.

You aren't thinking very clearly.  According to Florida law, all Zimmerman had to do was establish a reasonable scenario by which he felt his life was in danger. 

It's perfectly imaginable that because Zimmerman was following Martin, Martin struck him, and that once a fight was begun, Zimmerman was scared for his life and shot.  There is in fact real evidence disputed by no one that a fight took place.  Who started it, only Zimmerman knows and there is no way to prove that.  Yay Florida law.

The burden on the jury is very clear: in order to return a conviction they must be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not shoot in self defense.  Think about it...the prosecutor has to prove a negative to get a conviction.  Impossible without video of Zimmerman striking first, etc.

It's true that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman weren't a terrible human being who make awful decisions.  It's also true that Florida law allows people like Zimmerman do goad people into situations from which they can claim the right to kill.  But none of that has any bearing on the actual case.

There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists." - Yosemite Park Ranger

Diomedes

Quote from: SD on July 14, 2013, 10:47:04 AM
I take the racism aspect out of the equation because it clouts common sense. By Florida law precedent it's better to leave someone dead so they can't tell their side of the story.

Exactly.  If you want to run around Florida with a gun trolling people into fighting you and then shooting them claiming self defense, you can.  If you can prove they struck first, you walk automatically.  If it can't be proved who struck first, you walk.

Yay Florida.
There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists." - Yosemite Park Ranger

Munson

I think most people know that, by the letter of the law, he was going to be cleared...but obviously what people are saying is that it's bullshtein that he was able to claim self defense in the fist place, as he is the one that stalked and chased after martin.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 01, 2008, 05:10:48 PM
perhaps you could explain sd's reasons for "disliking" it as well since you seem to be so in tune with other peoples minds

Rome

Exactly right, Munson.   Did Zimmerman break the law?  I guess not.  He still killed a kid who he provoked and when he got the shtein kicked out of himself he pulled a gun and blew the kid away.  Again, for the millionth farging time, if Zimmerman had not provoked the incident Martin would be alive today.  It's not like Martin broke into his house and got capped.  He was walking home from the 7-11 armed to the teeth with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea.  The Horror!

And for the record, I actually support Stand Your Ground laws if your life is threatened.  If someone breaks into my house I'll drill them until there's nothing left to do but sweep up the mess.  But this is different.  Zimmerman went out as a vigilante and got away with his reckless actions.  For now that is.

Rome

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/law-and-justice-and-george-zimmerman/277772/

QuoteWhat the verdict says, to the astonishment of tens of millions of us, is that you can go looking for trouble in Florida, with a gun and a great deal of racial bias, and you can find that trouble, and you can act upon that trouble in a way that leaves a young man dead, and none of it guarantees that you will be convicted of a crime. But this curious result says as much about Florida's judicial and legislative sensibilities as it does about Zimmerman's conduct that night. This verdict would not have occurred in every state. It might not even have occurred in any other state. But it occurred here, a tragic confluence that leaves a young man's untimely death unrequited under state law. Don't like it? Lobby to change Florida's laws.





ice grillin you

Quote from: Diomedes on July 14, 2013, 09:46:10 AM
Reality check folks.

The jury decided properly.  There was no case against Zimmerman.  The prosecution offered some circumstantial evidence and that's about it.  The standard to convict is exceptionally high, as it should be, and I commend the jury for hewing to the law.

Obviously, Zimmerman is a terrible person, but that's neither here nor there.  According to the law and the available evidence, the man is not guilty.  Deal with it.

this is complete bullshtein....if trayvon had killed zimm the jury would have been deciding life or the needle...not innocent or guilty
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

Rome

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/14/us-usa-abortion-texas-idUSBRE96D08V20130714

Rick Perry stands as absolute proof that abortion should not only be legal; it should also be mandatory.


Geowhizzer

Quote from: Diomedes on July 14, 2013, 09:46:10 AM
Reality check folks.

The jury decided properly.  There was no case against Zimmerman.  The prosecution offered some circumstantial evidence and that's about it.  The standard to convict is exceptionally high, as it should be, and I commend the jury for hewing to the law.

Obviously, Zimmerman is a terrible person, but that's neither here nor there.  According to the law and the available evidence, the man is not guilty.  Deal with it.

I essentially agree with this.  The shooting was definitely an avoidable tragedy, and Zimmerman will have to live with his actions for the rest of his life.  Unfortunately, Martin won't have that chance.  But from everything I've read (didn't watch any of the "coverage" of the trial), it seems that the prosecution failed to prove within reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of what he was accused of doing.  They had contradictory witnesses, experts that basically said Zimmerman was telling the truth, and no substantive evidence to prove that Zimmerman was not acting in defense.

Either the case was too weak to win, or the prosecution botched it up.  Either way, it seems to be that the jury was correct.

ice grillin you

he stalked an unarmed teenager confronted him got in a fist fight with him and when he started to lose that fight he blew a tunnel thru his chest

he was completely reckless in his actions.....it was 100% manslaughter no question.....the problem is the dead guys skin color was brown so zimm gets a pass
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

Geowhizzer

Quote from: ice grillin you on July 14, 2013, 02:18:16 PM
he stalked an unarmed teenager confronted him got in a fist fight with him and when he started to lose that fight he blew a tunnel thru his chest

he was completely reckless in his actions.....it was 100% manslaughter no question.....the problem is the dead guys skin color was brown so zimm gets a pass

When I heard that the jury has asked for clarification on the manslaughter charge, I thought maybe they would go towards convicting on that charge.  Obviously, I was incorrect in that thought.

Rome

Dio is right in one aspect... the prosecution failed to make its case.   Not shocking because the burden of proof lies with them, but still, they were pimp-slapped by the defense.  The jury really had no choice but to find him not guilty even though he was 100% at fault.  All he had to do was get his fat ass back in the truck and let the pigs handle it.  He didn't and another black child is dead. 

Geowhizzer

Quote from: Rome on July 14, 2013, 02:29:32 PM
Dio is right in one aspect... the prosecution failed to make its case.   Not shocking because the burden of proof lies with them, but still, they were pimp-slapped by the defense.  The jury really had no choice but to find him not guilty even though he was 100% at fault.  All he had to do was get his fat ass back in the truck and let the pigs handle it.  He didn't and another black child is dead.

Basically.  Statutorily, Zimmerman is not guilty, but he's not innocent of wrongdoing.