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Author Topic: The Race(ism)/Hate Thread  (Read 116676 times)

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Butchers Bill

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2006, 12:41:57 PM »

The predictable pattern of the discussion is however very interesting to me.  So what I'm doing is pointing out that in these days of ours, most people are eager to say it's not racism. 

And there are many people just as quick to play the race card at any opportunity.  That door swings both ways.
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Diomedes

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2006, 12:46:06 PM »

The circle of life.  How precious.
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ice grillin you

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2006, 12:50:25 PM »

And there are many people just as quick to play the race card at any opportunity.  That door swings both ways.

of course and those people are a disgrace...that happens in everything....its called life...but pointing it out makes it seem as tho one is trying to deny the real racism that exists....youre reaching when you do this...its the same people that bash welfare because there are a small amount of people who take adavantage of the system...and ignore the millions of honest hard working people it helps

believe this.... there are far more people practicing racism than there are those claiming false racism and its not even close
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Rome

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2006, 12:53:43 PM »

Put your money where your mouth is then.  Give handouts to people who weren't responsible enough to insure against losses to their property and person.  Where does it stop, IGY? 

i actually have...i gave two full rooms worth of furniture from my house...plus a bunch of a/v equipment...whats sad is it took me three months to find a place that would accept it....everyone else wanted money which i dont trust to get to the right people...i found a church that was driving a fleet of trucks from where i live to new orleans to deliver hard goods to people who need it...people who have apartments or have gotten theri home back but have nothing in it ect

i give my money to this place....i highly recommend others do as well...morris dees is one of the great unsung americans

http://www.splcenter.org/

That's awesome, IGY.   :yay

Personally, my family donated money to the Red Cross and I volunteered my services to FEMA as an appraiser.  The Red Cross took my money gladly and hopefully put it to good use.

Believe it or not I never heard back from FEMA even though I have 20 years experience in the real estate valuation field.

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Butchers Bill

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2006, 12:58:19 PM »

...but pointing it out makes it seem as tho one is trying to deny the real racism that exists....youre reaching when you do this...

believe this.... there are far more people practicing racism than there are those claiming false racism and its not even close

Wow...speaking of reaching.   ::)

Other than that I agree with you.
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PoopyfaceMcGee

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2006, 12:58:44 PM »

its the same people that bash welfare because there are a small amount of people who take adavantage of the system...and ignore the millions of honest hard working people it helps

Half-true.  Aside from those who take advantage of the system, there is a much larger percentage of people that are deserving of the assistance, but also trapped into it more than they should or want to be.  The bureaucracy perpetuates itself, because all of the government workers that work for welfare only want their jobs and their realm to grow... meaning that the only good way to run welfare is to make every effort to shrink the bureaucracy from one year to the next.  Since that will never happen, we either have to accept that those working for the government in the system are lining their pockets much more than those the system is supposed to help, or that the whole system needs to be scrapped and redone.

believe this.... there are far more people practicing racism than there are those claiming false racism and its not even close

Yes, I believe that.  I also believe that you and others with similar viewpoints and courses of action are perpetuating the problem far more than alleviating it, because you continue to accentuate and inflate the racial divide.
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Phanatic

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2006, 01:44:51 PM »

Racism permeates our society in many ways. Any endeavor undertaken is a microcosm of the nation’s attitudes in general. Rebuilding New Orleans will have all the same problems experienced on the whole.
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DutchBird

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2006, 03:52:08 PM »

Racsim permeats any society, unfortunately. It is an almost natural phenomen  as part of the "us vs them" idea. A community feeling threatened by change. What makes the difference is how we act upon that...

 And as far as racism towards New Orleans goes, it certainly was and is there. The fact that there was some semi serious talk about relocating large parts of the city is proof enough. I have never ever heared similar talk or even th notion of it when the umpteenth hurricane devatstaed Florida, or another earthquake flattened parts of southern California.

 In many ways the whole "economic" argument is IMHO as much valid as it is a cover for the real motive, ignorance because of (hidden) racism. We do not care, because they (in this case the poor) are not easily identified with, plus the fact that they confront us with the darker aspects of our society and the American capitalist model in particular.

 The difference in response for the Pakistan earthquake vs the boxing day tsunami last year is a remarcable parallel. Part of the reason why so much money was raised was because it was easily identified with (white toursist and d-list celebs got hit). I would not be surprised (am almost convinced) that a disproportionate share of the relief went to Thailand, because that is where the toursists were, rather then the equally if not much harder hit shores of Indonesia and Sri Lanka (what got most media attention?). Whole carrier groups were sent to aid the relief effort.

The Pakistan earthquake might in the end have killed even more people (due to the onset of winter) might have killed more people then the tsunami. Only a fraction of the tsunami relief money was raised. There was a chronic shortage of helicopters and pilots. But then, we did not care, as no tourists were hit, and the locals were just a bunch of semi-Taliban rag-clothed hill tribe half savages (for those who do not see it, this was a sarcastic hyperbole). As one of the British newspapers remarked: The best thing for high risk third world countries is to make sure that at all times you have some tourists and D-list celebrities in potential disaster areas.
 
 And what was New Orleans? A largely black, poor city with a reputation for corruption (though I seriously doubt that it is that much worse then say Miami, LA, Detroit, Baltimore, DC and such). So no great loss there. Look at the crime and judicial statistics (both arrests, prison populations and sentences and (wrongful) convictions. Look at say Rodney King, and many of the (suspected) excessive use of violence and mistaken/questionable shootings by the police, I am not sure if statistics proof me right, but my impression is that a disproportiante number of the victims is non-white. They scream institutionalized racism. In fact, it was one of the chief arguments why the previous governor of Illinois put a moratorium on the death penalty. I am not sure, but one of the likely innocents executed under Bush's watch when governor of Texas might have been a victim of this as well.
 
 And before people start accusing me of just going of against American society and not looking at my own. I see similar patterns (though not as extreme) in the Netherlands. Here are a few examples. There seems to be a (hidden) racism by the cops at times (concerning checking for ID's). I know for a fact someone who was of mixed decent but a Dutch national always was picked out of line-ups at the airport for full baggage check (even though he as a businessman travelled regularly abroad). Whenever a non-white person is involved in some crime, the clamor for punishment seems to be much puder then when a white person is. Whenever there is a crime, if possible often fingers are pointed at foreigners before anything else. In my opinion the (newly) instituted immigration and refugee policies by this government and their application is broderline if not outright racist. The Brazilian shot in the aftermath of the London bombings is in many respects similar, IMHO (I doubt the cops would have shot so easily if he had been white). A huge factor in the Paris riots was laten racism which is similar (IMHOabout as much the same as possible) as what can be encountered in American cities.

 Ironically, groups being dicriminated against (at present or in the past) tend to produce their own racism as well.

 Unfortunately, racsim is a natural human trait. Anyone who states that he/she has never had racist thought is a liar. The big question is how one acts and reacts when such thoughts occur.

 Just my euro 0.02, of someone who has less and less faith in human society and politics in general.
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Cerevant

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2006, 05:17:47 PM »

so lemme get this right...the people who have lots of money and were able to protect themselves with insurance are getting all the help now...while the people who truly need help are getting none...
Yes, the richer neighborhoods are getting rebuilt faster, but as has been pointed out, those neighborhoods have the benefit of being built in more protected areas of town, and have the benefit of residents who had insurance.  Where is the evidence of impropriety?

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but could they at least make a concerted effort to lure the black residents back to town
Why?  Why should black people get more attention than anyone else?

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...whites are getting trailers in new orleans while blacks have to move to other parts of the country...govt money is being spent in only white neighborhoods...shouldnt it at least be equal...
That is your claim, but this article isn't about what you are talking about:

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Disparities in wealth and in the distance of evacuees from their ruined houses are dictating, in many cases, which neighborhoods will be part of the city's future and which will be consigned to its history.
Disparities in wealth: got mo money
Distance of evacuees: rich folk could pay to stay in more expensive, local establishments.  Poor folk had to go where the government could find places for them.

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"Every day and every week is better, and people need to know that," said Bea Quaintance. With the help of a trailer from the Federal Emergency Management Agency that is parked in her front yard, she and her husband, Gary, and their son, Steven, were the first family back on Memphis Street. "I think this country has done a wonderful job of providing for us."
You may have a point here, but the question is, where should FEMA spend their efforts - help in the neighborhoods where people are returning and rebuilding, or in the areas which have been abandoned?  Do you restore utilities and critical services in the neighborhoods where homes are being rebuilt, or to the areas where people can't afford to return?

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but blacks were poor so what does it matter...they can just be poor somewhere else right?
Don't confuse the issue - is this about economics, or race?  Are you telling me that there are no black people rebuilding in those rich neighborhoods?  No white people displaced with no hope of return?

The bottom line is that all the differences described in this article are about economics.  Show me where it says that a poor white neighborhood is being rebuilt while a poor black neighborhood is not.  Show me where it says that a rich black family didn't have their power restored when their rich white neighbor did.  This article is full of racism...

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...black residents, especially poor ones from the Lower Ninth Ward and the city's public housing projects, were much more likely than whites to end up living far out of town, according to city, state and federal studies.
So, no middle class blacks stayed near NO?

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... Middle-class whites fled in their own cars and tended not to go so far,
I see, no middle class blacks in New Orleans...and if there were, they sure as hell didn't own cars.

Assumptions made by this article (and you):
1) the poor are not being treated as well as the rich
2) All poor people in NO are black
3) All rich people in NO are white
4) Therefore, white people are being treated better than black people - must be racism.

This is the same crap that happens all the time in the media.  There was a building with a cell tower on top, and 7 people in the building got cancer.  Must be the cell tower.  Let's ignore the fact that there are thousands of buildings with cell towers that don't have similar cancer rates.  Let's ignore the fact that there may be other risk factors that these people have in common.  Let's ignore the fact that they don't even have the same kind of cancer...  The circumstances suit our agenda, so let's use correlation and assume causality.

Utter bullshtein.

Look, if you want to complain about why there are more poor blacks than poor whites, that's great.  If you want to show how instutional racism is keeping the black man in low income jobs, go for it.  But stop looking for racism where it isn't, and focus your efforts where you can have some hope of solving the problem.
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PoopyfaceMcGee

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2006, 05:24:23 PM »

Look, if you want to complain about why there are more poor blacks than poor whites, that's great.  If you want to show how instutional racism is keeping the black man in low income jobs, go for it.  But stop looking for racism where it isn't, and focus your efforts where you can have some hope of solving the problem.

Well said.
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ice grillin you

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2006, 09:36:15 PM »

But stop looking for racism where it isn't

maybe ill move to jupiter one day
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SunMo

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2006, 09:58:46 PM »

i don't it has the atmosphere to support human life dude.
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PhillyPhreak54

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2006, 12:20:27 AM »

Racism sickens me on both sides.

I hate it when white folks look at black folks in a different light because of their skin color. And I hate it when blacks assume that all whites are racist. It angers me big time when both happen.

And while the white on black stuff happens more frequently, the black on white stuff is just as bad too. This is a touchy subject but it is something that is still going on. It's not 1950's and 60's bad, but its still there. And its sad to see.
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PoopyfaceMcGee

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2006, 07:27:05 AM »

It's not 1950's and 60's bad

Yes, it is.
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PhillyPhreak54

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2006, 08:11:35 AM »

Well, there are no linger Jim Crow laws. No segregation and extreme things like that.

So maybe the feelings inside of some people rival those days, the outward displays of racism are not what they were 40-50 years ago.
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