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Author Topic: The Race(ism)/Hate Thread  (Read 116675 times)

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phattymatty

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2006, 09:50:44 AM »

i've seen it down there with my own eyes, and the difference between the obviously poor neighborhoods and richer neighborhoods is huge.

you see one block of row homes literally totally wiped out still, cars upside down in front of their houses, and you could tell that these people either haven't been back since the torm or have no plans to ever come back.

then 3 blocks down the road there would be a block of big nice houses that were pretty much back to normal. 

a large part of this that people don't realize is that the nice, richer houses were built on higher land to begin with, so the damage done to them was much less, add to that the fact that they have more money to begin with and of course they're going to be back sooner.  it's not like new orleans didn't know this could ever happen.  the people with money planned accordingly and therefore were hit less.
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JTrotter Fan

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2006, 09:52:35 AM »

I'm not calling anyone here racist, let's get that straight first.  Now then, I think it's awful interesting that, whenever someone says that something racist is going on, stillupfront's moms come out of the woodwork to explain how what's happening isn't racist.  It's just economics, it's just ineptitude, it's just ignorance, etc.  The only way you can point out racism without people disregarding what you say is if you can point to a dixie-flag waving neo-nazi criminal with tattoos on his face and black blood on his hands.  That's just about the only brand of racism people will admit exists.

I don't know if i'm losing my mind or just letting his wisdom rub off on me...but I completely agree with Dio.  I know it's a terrible example, but did anyone watch the show Black/White?  Clearly, there was a racist on that show.  The white adult male was a horrible racist and he couldn't even see it in himself.  There are far too many ignorant people in this country.  Open your eyes.
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Rome

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2006, 10:07:41 AM »

You guys realize that a lot of the people who got wiped out had no flood insurance, no windstorm insurance, and no catastrophic loss insurance, right?

I'm not denying there's a racist element to all of this but facts are facts.  If you don't have insurance against a loss like this, and you don't have the money to rebuild, then you're going to have large swaths of poor neighborhoods abandoned.

Every property owner has the option of insuring their properties against a total loss.  A lot of those poor folks couldn't afford the insurance, and as a result, they lost everything.  It's a tragedy to be sure but decrying racism as the cause of this is simply incorrect in this instance.

It's not like there's a line for white people to get help and a separate one for blacks down there.  It's a total fricken disaster, and again, those with money are being helped first and those without are having to wait. 

In other words, it's not about black and white, it's about green.  It always has been and always will be.
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PoopyfaceMcGee

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2006, 10:25:11 AM »

Cue someone now to tell me that what I saw wasn't racism.

No, that was out-and-out racism.

And don't say you weren't calling Zanshin and me racists, because you were... and that's OK.  You're a racist, too.  IGY's one of the bigger racists on this board as well.  It's just a matter of how you want to direct your racism.  Are you going to sit there and say that every white Republican is a racist?  Isn't that racist in and of itself?

As I've said many times on this board and other places, the only way to absolutely and truly combat racism is to do everything in one's power to completely ignore race/color in every situation.  However, you then have the problem with people decrying the ignorance of different cultures and backgrounds.  You can't have it both ways.  The more we accuentuate our differences in heritage, the more stereotyping and profiling will continue.

P.S.  Racism isn't always a byproduct of another inherent cause.  I didn't say that.  But thanks for assuming I felt that way and tossing my opinion out in your garbage file.  Must be nice to be so enlightened like you are.
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ice grillin you

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2006, 10:39:59 AM »

keep believeing that romey...is money a factor of course...but there is much more to this than that...

if the intitial response to the hurricane didnt make you see then i doubt what is currently going on will either...kind of reminds of how we bombed bosnia after we found some ethnic cleansing going on but we are currently on our second genocide in a decade in africa with virtually no response whatsoever...even tho more people were being killed on a daily basis for three months in rwanda than in all of bosnia for the entire conflict

so lemme get this right...the people who have lots of money and were able to protect themselves with insurance are getting all the help now...while the people who truly need help are getting none...

shouldnt the people that are most needy be the most helped...and im not saying go across the board and replace every black house with a new one...thats obviously not feasible...but could they at least make a concerted effort to lure the black residents back to town...whites are getting trailers in new orleans while blacks have to move to other parts of the country...govt money is being spent in only white neighborhoods...shouldnt it at least be equal...

but blacks were poor so what does it matter...they can just be poor somewhere else right?....even tho new orleans has been the home of their families for 100 years...

as for you talking about how new orleans has a black mayor...guess what...not for long...keep the blacks away for good and we dont have to put up with a black mayor for a long time....its the ultimate in redistricting...instead of tweaking a voting district just eliminate it...and once this political change is made then the fun will really start...say hello to mass gentrification in areas like the 9th ward and goodbye to a huge part of what new orleans was...get rid of the undesireables
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MURP

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2006, 10:47:27 AM »

Kanye told me about this.

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SunMo

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2006, 10:49:22 AM »

mike myers' reaction was the funniest thing he's done in 10 years
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PoopyfaceMcGee

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2006, 10:50:50 AM »

We are supposed to live in a free market capitalist economy, which means that government aid is not going to be at the level where there won't be disparities in wealth.

Unfortunately, the Republicans in power would like to make the economy more geared toward a military institutionalism and are spending the many, many tax dollars creating organization to do so, while still (under-) funding many of the bureaucracies that are to provide aid to those on shaky financial ground.  Yet, if the Democrats were in power, they would like to make the economy closer to a socialist economy, where the middle class and upper-middle class take the brunt of the financial hit in order to overfund those same bureucracies that are supposed to help people get back on their feet, but ultimately just leave them dependent on the aid and still in need of even more.

In either system, the super-rich stay super-rich, and the poor are farged.  Welcome to America.
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Diomedes

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2006, 10:53:15 AM »

And don't say you weren't calling Zanshin and me racists, because you were...
I just knew you wouldn't be able to handle that comment without taking it personally.  It was a risk I took.  So look..I'm NOT calling you racist.  I'm using your comments to point out what I consider to be a common phenomenon.  Your comments are perfectly valid and I'm not arguing with you about them.  Feel free to think otherwise if you like.

...and that's OK. You're a racist, too.
Yeah, well everyone has biases.  What's your point?? 

...Are you going to sit there and say that every white Republican is a racist?
No.  Would you like me to say that?

... Isn't that racist in and of itself?
Bigoted perhaps, but not racist.  If I were to claim that all white republicans are racists, it's different than claiming all white people are racist.  THAT would be a racist comment.  Saying all white people of a certain political persuasion are this or that is not racist.

P.S. Racism isn't always a byproduct of another inherent cause. I didn't say that. But thanks for assuming I felt that way and tossing my opinion out in your garbage file. Must be nice to be so enlightened like you are.
Calm down, Nancy.  You're reading too much into my comments.  I'm not posting about you and what you said.  I do not mean to say that FastFreddie thinks racism is purely a byproduct of other inherent causes (whatever that means).  I'm just pointing out that, these days, most everyone will explain obviously racist things away as caused by something else. 
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Rome

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2006, 10:59:43 AM »

Put your money where your mouth is then.  Give handouts to people who weren't responsible enough to insure against losses to their property and person.  Where does it stop, IGY?  When do people take responsibility for their actions and stop depending on the government to solve their problems for them??

I've already stipulated that race has played a role in the response to Katrina.  I'm not blind.  I saw the people stranded and left for dead in poor neighborhoods after Katrina rolled through and was sickened by it.

I'm simply saying that those very same people put themselves in that situation.  They stayed when they were told to evacuate.  They were warned for generations that if and when a storm hit, their neighborhoods would likely be destroyed by flooding, but they CHOSE to ignore those warnings and stayed put.

I agree that we as a society should do whatever we can to help those less fortunate.  I'm hardly a cold-hearted capitalistic supply-sider.  I'm merely confirming that in any tragedy, certain priorties have to be met first and that's what's occuring in New Orleans right now.

You restore basic services to areas that are able to be restored easily and then move on from there.  That's how it's done, IGY.   The sad thing is, though, the devastation is so immense and complete that instead of taking weeks or months to rebuild, it's going to take years if not decades.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2006, 11:02:14 AM by Jerome99RIP »
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phillymic2000

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2006, 11:06:33 AM »

Quote
shouldnt the people that are most needy be the most helped...and im not saying go across the board and replace every black house with a new one...thats obviously not feasible...but could they at least make a concerted effort to lure the black residents back to town...whites are getting trailers in new orleans while blacks have to move to other parts of the country...govt money is being spent in only white neighborhoods...shouldnt it at least be equal...

Everyone (almost) was forced out of the city those who were too poor to rent/buy another house were sent to other cities, why is that bad? Some have decided to stay in those cities due to the fact that they actually have a chance to do something. I know there were a couple of families displaced to the city I workin just south of Chicago, those kids have stayed in the district since then. And yes govt. money should be spent equally, if it is the govt money, there maybe people who had flood or other insurance that have been rebuilding.


Quote
as for you talking about how new orleans has a black mayor...

How in the heck does this guy get a pass in this whole mess? the fed gov is taking it's share of blame and bashing as they should, but this moron doesn't act inthe best interest of his people before during or after this storm, makes a clear as day racist comment when he said "New Orleans will be a chocolate city again" and nobody will throw blame on this guy. If Mayor Daley said Chicago will always be a "Vanilla town" Jesse Jackson/ Al Sharpton and others would have Heart Attacks. It's mind blowing that a city/state govt. in place for many many years that has done nothing for the poor of the city gets a pass in this mess and it all gets thrown on the fed's.

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PoopyfaceMcGee

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2006, 11:12:06 AM »

I'm using your comments to point out what I consider to be a common phenomenon.  Your comments are perfectly valid and I'm not arguing with you about them.  Feel free to think otherwise if you like.

I'm simply saying that said *phenomenon* is not just a pile of bull in this case.  It's the truth.  If you actually agreed with that point, why did you start an argument/dialogue about it?  That strikes me as being argumentative for the sake of argument, not for the sake of increased awareness or enlightenment.  Sounds like the U.S. government.
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ice grillin you

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2006, 11:21:19 AM »

Put your money where your mouth is then.  Give handouts to people who weren't responsible enough to insure against losses to their property and person.  Where does it stop, IGY? 

i actually have...i gave two full rooms worth of furniture from my house...plus a bunch of a/v equipment...whats sad is it took me three months to find a place that would accept it....everyone else wanted money which i dont trust to get to the right people...i found a church that was driving a fleet of trucks from where i live to new orleans to deliver hard goods to people who need it...people who have apartments or have gotten theri home back but have nothing in it ect

i give my money to this place....i highly recommend others do as well...morris dees is one of the great unsung americans

http://www.splcenter.org/
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Diomedes

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2006, 12:06:33 PM »

I'm simply saying that said *phenomenon* is not just a pile of bull in this case. It's the truth. If you actually agreed with that point, why did you start an argument/dialogue about it?
To be clear:  What I intend to accomplish by saying that your comments are valid is to acknowledge your right to them and move on without engaging you in debate over them.  In short, I'm trying to be civil with you.  Acknowledge your point and give mine, without having to argue them to death, that kind of thing.

It just so happens that I don't think it's "the truth" that racism has little to do with what's happening in New Orleans.  I don't think it's just economics, or mostly economics.  I think race is a huge factor.  But I don't care to tell you about my thoughts on the subject, and I don't care to hear yours.  It's not interesting to me.  The discussion bores me. 

The predictable pattern of the discussion is however very interesting to me.  So what I'm doing is pointing out that in these days of ours, most people are eager to say it's not racism.  Whether "it" is the situation in New Orleans, the dearth of black NYC firefighters, or the insanely high amount of blacks in prison.  The standard argument is that it's not racism "in this case," and I don't buy that.

We can agree to disagree and move on if that's alright with you.

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PoopyfaceMcGee

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Re: institutional racism is alive and well in america
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2006, 12:39:40 PM »

It just so happens that I don't think it's "the truth" that racism has little to do with what's happening in New Orleans.  I don't think it's just economics, or mostly economics.  I think race is a huge factor.  But I don't care to tell you about my thoughts on the subject, and I don't care to hear yours.  It's not interesting to me.  The discussion bores me. 

...

We can agree to disagree and move on if that's alright with you.

Yes, that's fine.  Thanks for the clarification.
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