I think that the defense is going to be blown up after this season is over, so lets make a list of who needs to go.
Gone:
Darwin Walker
Mike Lewis
Dhani Jones
Sam Rayburn
Jerome McDougal
The entire defensive coaching staff, including position coaches and water boys
Can't go because they are too young/count too much against the cap:
Matt McCoy
Sean Considine
Darren Howard (is he still on the team?)
Broderick Bunkley (yes, he is a bust, I don't care if he's a rookie)
Agree with the top list.
Howard is a good DE, he stays.
To call Bunkley a bust now is stupid.
I agree with everything here. Bunkley isn't a bust until next year when he takes Walker's spot as a speed bump for running backs and linemen.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 27, 2006, 12:07:24 PM
Agree with the top list.
Howard is a good DE, he stays.
To call Bunkley a bust now is stupid.
We've said that about McDougal too Phreak. Of course, the standard line in the NFL is it takes several years for you to know for sure, but come on. Has the kid shown ANYTHING that warranted him being a high 1st round pick? Patterson at least had some flashes as a rookie, but Bunkley is looking more like Leonard Renfro/Bruce Walker/Jon Harris.
The standard line is about right. You need to give the rookies time to show what they can do. Bunkley has not started, he has not seen extended playing time either. So to pass judgment right now is crazy. Patterson showed flashes because he was given the opportunity to get in there and play. Bunkley needs to grow up mentally and learn the NFL game and then we'll see where he's at.
Bunkley hasn't gotten the opportunity because he can't be better than Darwin "I get blasted off the line every down" Walker in practice. That's not good.
Trotter can take a hike, too. He's one dimensional at best. Bounce him.
Quote from: Butchers Bill on November 27, 2006, 12:20:05 PM
Bunkley hasn't gotten the opportunity because he can't be better than Darwin "I get blasted off the line every down" Walker in practice. That's not good.
Or is it because the coaches, for whatever reason, have not decided to bench Darwin...we don't know.
I was just going to make a thread like this, but for the whole organization.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 27, 2006, 12:44:03 PM
I was just going to make a thread like this, but for the whole organization.
Andy Reid
Also, I agree with Trotter. I like him but he looks like shtein out there. The Eagles should let Gaither play a little bit these last few weeks of the season to see what he has.
Quote from: Butchers Bill on November 27, 2006, 12:03:39 PM
Gone:
Darwin Walker
Mike Lewis
Dhani Jones
Sam Rayburn
Jerome McDougal
The entire defensive coaching staff, including position coaches and water boys
Can't go because they are too young/count too much against the cap:
Matt McCoy
Sean Considine
Darren Howard (is he still on the team?)
Broderick Bunkley (yes, he is a bust, I don't care if he's a rookie)
I agree with this whole sentiment, except for Howard. If he really isn't producing, his contract was actually made up so that the cap hit wouldn't be that big. However, his contract also isn't nearly as big as outwardly reported, so I think cutting him is a bad decision.
McCoy could be a valuable role player and even start WITH THE RIGHT LB corps around him.
Quote from: Diomedes on November 27, 2006, 12:22:50 PM
Trotter can take a hike, too. He's one dimensional at best. Bounce him.
Yup, he used to break plays up now he just gets trampled over like the OLBs do. What makes it worse is him acting like his shtein don't stink afterwards.
The first list was good but I agree with Phreak, Howard's not a bad end and he can only do so much when the interior line and opposite DE are undersized and getting mauled. Bunkley gets a rookie exemption from me for now.
Quote from: Hoe Cakes on November 27, 2006, 12:10:18 PM
I agree with everything here. Bunkley isn't a bust until next year when he takes Walker's spot as a speed bump for running backs and linemen.
True. The McDougle Experiment is over. Let the Bunkley Test begin.
Howard is an excellent football player. I see no reason to drop him.
Howard played best when he was inside. When Kearse went down, Howard (and the rest of the line) went into suck mode.
Quote from: Butchers Bill on November 27, 2006, 12:03:39 PM
I think that the defense is going to be blown up after this season is over, so lets make a list of who needs to go.
Gone:
Darwin Walker
Mike Lewis
Dhani Jones
Sam Rayburn
Jerome McDougal
The entire defensive coaching staff, including position coaches and water boys
Agreed here, and I would add Hood to the list--not because I think he SHOULD go neccesarily, but there's no way the Eagles re-sign him. Which means we're looking at using probably a 2nd round pick on a CB.
The whole team is made out of marshmallow pussee. Their brains are made of cotton and they all sleep on pillowtop beds with silk sheets and the fluffiest feather pillows you can find.
Soft motherfargers. I hate all of them. :boom
walker
rayburn
mccoy
jones
barber
lewis
considine
perhaps even patterson, but they signed him until 3034 so i guess that wont happen.
Making a list of players on defense who need to go will take too long. So I'll make a list of players who should be back next year instead.
Tito
Brown
Dawk
Howard
I would keep Cole, Howard, Lito, Sheldon. Send Darth to a contender, he deserves it. All the rest can go. Time to start over.
mccoy number one with a bullet
dhani right behind him
trotter
walker
considine
barber
the above need to not be on the field defensivly ever again unless injury puts them there...if you wanna keep them for special teams back ups then fine
bunkley is not a bust yet but hes as close as you can get...the guy isnt even close to being ready to play...patterson is straight up vanilla and a non factor but bunkley actually sucks...if he was a linebacker and was having trouble with the scheme then i could see..but hes a DT...which is a position one should be able to acclimate themsleves at fairly quickly at least to show some promise make some plays...hes done neither...fool cant get on the field
much like sean payton letting stallworth go im starting to think theres a reason bunkley and justice dropped so low...andy is not smarter than the rest iof the gm's in the league and is dumber than most
It would have been easier to just make one "who needs to go thread" instead of three, but flip it:
Who DOESN'T need to go.
Forgot about Cole. He's a keeper too.
Trotter and Dawk have to stay but Trot in a limited role. This team has lost way too much senior leadership. The inmates run the the asylum because there's only Trot and Dawk to manage the room, and they obviously need some help keeping everyone in line. Who else in the entire D unit is a leader beyond Trot and Dawk? Guitar man? Lito? Walker? See what I mean? Ike and Troy were a step slow but at least the other yahoos listened to them.
i agree theres no leadership but that has more to do with the coach than the players....andy doesnt allow players to be leaders...they are all supposed to be robots programmed by him and banner to walk the line and never leave it
its not a coincidence that the leaders this team did have are all ray rhodes guys
theres no reason why people like sheldon and lito cant step up and take over the leadership that vincent and bobby taylor left...the difference is those were two more ray rhodes guys...lito and sheldon are current admin stepfords
D players to go:
All LBs.
All non first round pick DTs.
All non Dawkins safeties.
Quote from: rjs246 on November 27, 2006, 03:27:24 PM
D players to go:
All LBs.
All non first round pick DTs.
All non Dawkins safeties.
Sounds good to me.
Every defensive player but Dawk, Bunkley, Cole, Patterson(who should be demoted to a limited role), Lito.
YOU need to go.
Amen.
2nd
"You can hate me all you want to, but you can't stop me."
Sign Adalius Thomas to play SAM. UFA after '06
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 27, 2006, 04:26:24 PM
Sign Adalius Thomas to play SAM. UFA after '06
Best post I've read on this board all week.
Howard had at least one outstanding game, against the Cowboys no less. That is more than 3/4 of the starters can say, so he gets to stick around for another year.
Sign Adalius Thomas to play SAM. UFA after '06
hell be 30 before next season...too old to give huge money to...especially when youre a team rebuilding....
Shoulda farging signed Antonio Pierce.
or marcus washington
absolutely....i championed him big time over resigning trotter
Or Keith Traylor.
I think Lance Briggs would be a great to get. From what I've seen of him, he has good coverage skills, can blitz and is a tough hard hitter. Jerry Angelo has said he doesn't like to use the franchise tag and the Bears are rumored to already have made a Julian Peterson like offer that Briggs refused. He is also still young.
Just because he is represented by Drew Rosenhaus, and is a linebacker, and will take big bucks to land by out bidding other teams doesn't mean the Eagles wouldn't go for him, right? Probably same kind of deal for Cato June.
Oh well, maybe we could get Lawrence Taylor for the vet minimum and a bag of crackie.
Cato June is a former DB and is about the same size as Matt McCoy. Signing him, another undersized guy, would not help
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 27, 2006, 08:24:51 PM
Sign Adalius Thomas to play SAM. UFA after '06
hell be 30 before next season...too old to give huge money to...especially when youre a team rebuilding....
Doesn't need huge money. He'd be a solid signing. He's the type of player this team needs.
Thomas - SLB
Trotter - MLB
Briggs - WLB
That would be outfargingstanding. Never happen, but nice to dream.
You still think Trotter can play MLB?
Doesn't need huge money. He'd be a solid signing
adalius thomas is going to get more than solid money...way too big for a 30 year old...if the eagles were zesty linebackers away from the superbowl then id take a run at a 30 year...but not in the position they are now would i...id rather draft a couple lb's...and if not bust out the big bucks for a younger guy like briggs...i like thomas but lb's going into their 30's scare me
You still think Trotter can play MLB?
nope
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 28, 2006, 02:24:40 AM
Trotter - MLB
Stop it. He's already bone-on-bone in the knee. Time to sell him for glue.
Its been like that since college.
He will be on this team next year. Y'all take the witch hunt to another position...
I think Trotter would be fine if he had a better supporting cast around him. He's not washed up but he obviously isn't capable of being disruptive all by himself anymore either.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 28, 2006, 10:48:47 AM
Its been like that since college.
He will be on this team next year. Y'all take the witch hunt to another position...
I expect him to be on the team next year. But I want them to have a plan in place to replace his ass.
even tho i think hes a shell of his former self i dont have a huge problem with trotter...its kind of like complaining about sheldons tackling ability as a problem on the team
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 28, 2006, 10:52:22 AM
I think Trotter would be fine if he had a better supporting cast around him. He's not washed up but he obviously isn't capable of being disruptive all by himself anymore either.
Any one of these losers would be fine with a better supporting cast around him. That doesn't mean they don't suck.
I don't know why but your rabid distaste for Trotter still makes me laugh after all these years.
Sadly, it's becoming more and more justified with each passing season.
He's supposed to be great against the run. No team that started Trotter has ever been great against the run.
Trotter is great at blowing up gaps straight ahead, but he can't move laterally well at all. He really needs OLBs who can move north and south for him so he can just concentrate on hitting gaps.
Besides not being able to get off blocks against the Colts, the Colts demonstrated that this defense is very slow sideline to sideline. Addai looked like he was waltzing to the outside on most occasions before turning the corner. One way to fix that is investing in some strong, fast OLBs, but unfortunately that probably won't happen anytime soon.
Exactly.
Give him some good OLBs and keep blockers off of him and he's fine. He's a numbers to numbers player. That is his effective area. Start getting him outside the numbers and he's out of his comfort zone.
Listen to yourself, man. "give him some good support in the other positions and then he's fine." "He's not in his comfort zone if he has to move laterally."
He sucks.
No, that says he is a run stuffing MLB who does not cover well or move like some other MLBs. He's been like this for awhile now. But of course since the Eagles suck now so does everyone who plays on the team. He was fine earlier in the year. But now he sucks?
No he sucked earlier in the year. He sucked for most of last season too. If you ask him to do ONE THING he's okay at it. You know who else was good at that one thing? Levon Kirkland. Who sucked. Trotter sucks.
Trotter is still servicable. I'd rather spend money on two outstanding OLBs and have Trotter man the middle during running downs than do a wholesale liquidation of the LB corps.
Not that I don't want to, but as long as Trotter can stuff gaps effectively, and considering he's under contract for a relatively low price, I don't see a reason to get rid of him if the Eagles can sign two very effective OLBs in the off-season, like Thomas and Briggs.
the OLBs have been the bane of this defense for a very long time now. If anything, that is the most neglected position on the defense. If the Eagles sign two proven OLBs, then I think Trotter becomes that much more effective because his duties would be signficantly curtailed.
The team should not have players who need better supporting cast members to be good themselves. They should be good. The NFL MLB should be able to move laterally AND bust through the line.
These things are not too much to ask.
You guys are right. Like I said, since this team sucks it automatically means that every player on the roster sucks and shouldn't be in the NFL. Get rid of them all.
Don't get in a huff, Phreak. The truth is that he would be better if the players to the outside of him were better. So would any MLB. But the OTHER truth, which you are ignoring, is that he is supposed to be a star and a leader of this defense and if all he can do is run straight ahead and plug a hole in the line, then he is a one-trick pony on a team that needs their ponies to turn as many tricks as possible.
He's done. If he were on a different team that didn't need him to do much he might have some value, but on this team, with this group of linebackers, he has no value. Reality.
Not in a huff. I know what type of player he is, just like you said he would be better if the surrounding cast were better. His one-trick-pony show appears as a glaring weakness now because the defense as a whole is crap. But when the supporting cast is able to do what they should be doing, he is fine. When the DL was playing well earlier in the year he was making plays at the line and in the backfield. He shoots gaps and he overpursues at times, we know that.
I agree. On THIS team he's not playing particularly well, but if the focus on the off-season is to get two very good OLBs to put on his left and right side then I think he can still be a good MLB in this league.
Trotter, at this point in his career, needs help. He can't do it by himself and I think its unreasonable to think he can turn in those 12-15 tackle performances that he used to. However, I don't think it makes sense to go out in the off-season and get a MLB, if there even is an MLB to be had, when a much more pressing need would be to get OLBs to support Trotter, who can still play if he gets the burden lifted off him of having to be 'the guy' to make every single play on the field.
Even though Trotter has lost some of his edge and talent, the incompetence of his fellow co-workers exemplifies the flaws that Trotter has and makes him seem that much worse.
OK, so we're all saying the same thing but the rest of us are saying that we need an upgrade and you're saying that they don't which doesn't make any sense. You would rather have them upgrade the TWO positions to his outside and the FOUR positions in front of him to improve the effectiveness of the MLB... why not improve the MLB by getting a new MLB? That's only ONE position to upgrade.
Upgrading one position, I don't think, will make that much of a difference. Even if Trotter was to be replaced and we go into next year with McCoy and Gocong or Dhani then I still think that MLB will be taken out of the game, or seriously hampered, because the OLBs can't get to the outside and shed blocks and the front four can't occupy blockers and create gaps to hit.
At least with better OLBs teams can't consistently run to the outside and have to respect the lateral speed. That would filter more runs to Trotter and have him prove his worth. If he still can't handle that then he's garbage. Now, the Eagles have been thrashed up the middle this year, but not from the outset. Usually, teams set up the Eagles by establishing the corners and then when the Eagles are stretched teams then come up the gut and gash them there, too. If the Eagles can significantly take away the off-tackle runs, then they can effectively shorten the field and at least make it easier for Trotter to attack interior gaps and not have to move from sideline to sideline.
Fixing the front 4 is a problem as well. Trotter suffers from not having DTs that can eat up blockers. But with so much invested in Patterson and Bunkley smaller, not 330 lbs. DTs are in the Eagles future for a while.
I'm not saying Trotter is faultless, but only addressing the MLB and neglecting the rest probably won't do a whole lot for this team.
Teach Pat McCoy to play DT. Put his lard ass to work.
You're missing my point, Z (although I agree with yours)...
My point is that Phreak is talking about replacing the players around Trotter to make Trotter better. If you want a position to improve the solution should not be to replace everyone around that position. The solution should be to replace that position.
The entire front seven needs to be improved. We all agree on that. But the biggest improvement needs to come from the linebacking corps because right now Dhani is worthless, McCoy is an inexperienced Dhani and Trotter can only run straight ahead. That's awful and all three of them could be canned right now and I wouldn't bat an eyelash if I thought for a second that the front office would bring in someone young/talented/in possession of two knees.
Trotter is not the problem. Do they need to start grooming a replacement? Hell yeah...but I'd rather them concentrate on SAM, and possible WIL next year before they think about getting rid of Trotter. We're sitting here bitching about our undersized DT's and LB's, lets not go and get rid of our heaviest LB.
I miss Willie T :'(
"I don't know what's going on, man," said linebacker Jeremiah Trotter. "I don't have answers right now."
and something about not wanting to be a Leader anymore because nobody is listening...
Who is not listening, JJ?, Reid?, All of the other players on D? Maybe nobody is listening because he is not making any plays either.
Trotter is blind and even during the Jacksonville game he was running into the same blocks as the linemen and leaving gayyyping holes open for Fred Taylor to run through. He may have got one of his last "Wood Chops" in Sunday Night. I still think you have to work with all the Eagles have invested in on the DLine, but they need some serious BACK UP from LINEBACKERS (GET IT?) They suppose to back the Line Up, not the other way around.
I listened to Trotter's show on WIP tonight and you could tell he so badly wanted to say he wants better defensive players on the squad, but was holding back. He all but said it anyway. He said that it isn't good when he himself is bigger than most of the defensive lineman on the team. He also hinted that Dhani was too small to play SAM.
Ike Reese called in and pretty much said that Dhani Jones is not a SAM LB and hinted that he isn't even an NFL LB at all, said he hasn't seen enough of McCoy to have an opinion about him.
trotters problem is that hes way to big to play...i noticed this in training camp...his ass is the size of lativia and not that he was ever a sideline to sidleine guy but hes lost a few steps because of it...now like rjs said he just runs to a hole btwn the OT's and trys to blast thru...he cant run any plays down at his current size
Quote from: rjs246 on November 28, 2006, 11:25:54 PM
You're missing my point, Z (although I agree with yours)...
My point is that Phreak is talking about replacing the players around Trotter to make Trotter better. If you want a position to improve the solution should not be to replace everyone around that position. The solution should be to replace that position.
The entire front seven needs to be improved. We all agree on that. But the biggest improvement needs to come from the linebacking corps because right now Dhani is worthless, McCoy is an inexperienced Dhani and Trotter can only run straight ahead. That's awful and all three of them could be canned right now and I wouldn't bat an eyelash if I thought for a second that the front office would bring in someone young/talented/in possession of two knees.
What I am saying is that Trotter can play still. He's good at stopping the run and then he goes out in nickel. That works fine. But when they have two OLBs who can barely function and a DL who cannot shed a block it compounds the problem. People then say "well our run stopping MLB ain't stopping the run. That's his only job and he's not doing it." But that isn't whats going on. What is going on is the entire defense is struggling.
Jon Ritchie was on WIP a few minutes ago and he pretty much said the same thing. He said that offenses fear Trotter. He's big and can move and bust into the line and stop the run. He said he hated going up against Emmons and guys like Trotter because they were big and knew how to play. He said these other guys are too small and they rely on speed too much versus brute strength. He also said that the loss of Kearse affects the run defense because he is a very underrated run defender.
So back to my original point - if the DL can shed blocks and not allow a RB to get going, or if the DL can not allow the OL to move to the LB level, it doesn't look as bad on Trotter. Or if the OLBs can hold the point of attack and force the RB to slow up, it allows pursuit to get there.
This thing is a clusterfarg. It has to get fixed from the front first. Get those guys doing their job and see what happens.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 28, 2006, 10:29:30 PM
Exactly.
Give him some good OLBs and keep blockers off of him and he's fine. He's a numbers to numbers player. That is his effective area. Start getting him outside the numbers and he's out of his comfort zone.
so basically they need to run a 4-4-3 defense. and make sure no one else touches trotter, and on top of that, be sure that he has a clear as day path to the ball carrier in order to make the play.
that, my friends, is the very definition of fearsome middle linebacker. :evil
Quote from: Wingspan on November 29, 2006, 09:00:02 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 28, 2006, 10:29:30 PM
Exactly.
Give him some good OLBs and keep blockers off of him and he's fine. He's a numbers to numbers player. That is his effective area. Start getting him outside the numbers and he's out of his comfort zone.
so basically they need to run a 4-4-3 defense. and make sure no one else touches trotter, and on top of that, be sure that he has a clear as day path to the ball carrier in order to make the play.
that, my friends, is the very definition of fearsome middle linebacker. :evil
No, way to miss the point though. You hear many players and DCs talk about funneling the run back inside to the MLB. Trot can make plays but he can't (nor can any LB) when he has blockers taking him out because the DL gets run over.
Meanwhile, he's still going to be awful doing everything else. The one thing he can do, any decent MLB should be able to do.
This thing is a clusterfarg. It has to get fixed from the front first
how tho
the two quality lineman they do have are in their 30's and the young guys they have are horrible...i mean i want a big run stuffing DT as much as anyone but a) do you really think andy is gonna go out and get one b) would that magically make everyone else better
i think there is a lot of delusion with eagles fans that if they imporve position A then positons B thru D will all of sudden be good players...the problem is much deeper than the defensive philosophy of having smallish palyers...it goes to the core of the PP dept...andy and co have been horrible at identifying quality defensive players
since the success of the 02 draft in getting their starting corners its gone like this...
mcdougle - titantic bust and traded up to get him
jamal green - garbage
matt ware - everyone knew he had no position coming out of college still took him - garbage
jr reed - good kick returner but couldnt play defense
dexter wynn - bad kick returner and couldnt play defense
patterson - bleh
mccoy - wtf?
considine - special teamer
killa cole - very nice get
key marshall - worthless
(http://images.nfl.com/images/draft/2005/mugs/bergeron_david.jpg) - holla atcha boy!
bunkley - cant get on the field
gocong - lololol
gaither and ramsey - have the potential to be good late round picks
theres the last four years of defensive drafts....atrocious is being to kind....to me this is a tragic inability to indentify and get quality players...therefore its not enough to say just go out and get a big run stuffing tackle and all will be well....because they still have to go get a big run stuffing tackle that can actually play and to ask these guys to do that is asking a whole lot imo
both jamal green and jr reed had injuries that kept them from ever being effective again lolololololololoololololololol
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 29, 2006, 09:43:42 AM
This thing is a clusterfarg. It has to get fixed from the front first
how tho
the two quality lineman they do have are in their 30's and the young guys they have are horrible...i mean i want a big run stuffing DT as much as anyone but a) do you really think andy is gonna go out and get one b) would that magically make everyone else better
i think there is a lot of delusion with eagles fans that if they imporve position A then positons B thru D will all of sudden be good players...the problem is much deeper than the defensive philosophy of having smallish palyers...it goes to the core of the PP dept...andy and co have been horrible at identifying quality defensive players
The biggest thing is going to be a change in how they look at and evaluate the DT position. Specifically the spot that Darwin Walker plays. He is useless. He showed signs of being a bum last season but this year e has confirmed that he deserves bum status.
Patterson can play. He is quick off the ball and can make TFL's and win battles against OL because of his leverage. Bunkley has to be the player they thought he would be.
That leaves 3 DT positions open. Well two because Ramsey has shown some flashes. He can also play DE. And maybe moving him to DE full time would help the run because he'd be a bigger DE.
Free agent fat body DT
Patterson
Bunkley
Ramsey
free agent / draft pick fat body DT
The free agent would have to be a guy who demands attention from the C and LG. Leave Patterson singled up on the RG. If you have a big body who takes up two blockers it also helps the MLB.
This would also take a change in JJ's philosophy on DTs. Place an emphasis on size over speed.
JJ should in no way be back as defensive coordinator next season.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on November 29, 2006, 08:56:19 AM
Jon Ritchie was on WIP a few minutes ago and he pretty much said the same thing. He said that offenses fear Trotter. He's big and can move and bust into the line and stop the run. He said he hated going up against Emmons and guys like Trotter because they were big and knew how to play. He said these other guys are too small and they rely on speed too much versus brute strength. He also said that the loss of Kearse affects the run defense because he is a very underrated run defender.
I heard that too and thought he made some great points. When asked about last years draft: "They drafted a skier"
Where I feel our D-line is hurting is shooting the gaps. These guys used to be so quick off the ball that by the time the O-line fired off the D-line was already through the gap. Even if they didn't make it all the way through they would gain a certain amount of leverage since the larger O-line couldn't square up and knock them on their ass. Now it seems as if they're slow off the ball and when they fire out the O-line is just dominating them. Isn't that why JJ likes a quick small D-line? Because they can fire through a gap. These guys are playing the O-line straight up and not shooting the gaps and when you don't have a size advantage it does no good.
Saying what the Eagles would do and what they should do are two totally different things. I don't think anyone is delusional about what Reid and Co. will do, but at least one can make comments about the pressing needs of this team.
When I watched the Colts game on Sunday it reminded me of Tecmo Super Bowl. You know how you wrestle with every player and can never get off the blocks without a really good fight? And there were clear lanes for running back or WRs to run through? That's what the Eagles run D reminded me of. On a few runs it still seemed like the D-line was engaged with the OL when Addai was running past them for 10-15 yards. I wanted to scream at the screen, "hit the A button faster!!"
So, getting off blocks, filling gaps, and containing the off-tackle running plays are all things that this defense is horrible at doing. Then, when they do try to contain the outside, they are too stretched out and they get gashed up the middle. The Eagles NEED OLBs who can move from side to side and can shed blockers, the Eagles NEED a run stuffing DT who can occupy a C and G, and then I think the run defense will see marked improvements. Moreover, the DEs will have a great opportunity to improve in the pass rush because they might be singled up a lot more on the outside.
Probably won't happen, though.
Walker, McDougal, Dhani Jones should all get their walking papers either immediately after the season if not before.
There are several others like McCoy and Patterson who deserve a demotion, but would be valuable backups.
alot of people myself included thought the D-line was going to be great this year. Bunkley seemed like a monster, who would fit in nicely. Kearse got hurt, w/o him Howard disappeared. Our Lbs can't expected to engage OLmen on a regular basis. I think our Lb and Secondary are worn out and beaten up because the front 4 blow. Kearse overrated and hurt,Mcdougal bust, Howard bust, Cole undersized. I could jump on the 3-4 bandwagon of course that means total overhaul.
our Lb are worn out and beaten up because the front 4 blow
the linebackers are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse than the dline
and the dline isnt very good
Kearse is overrated, but without him the line completely disappeared. Gotcha.
Quote from: General_Failure on November 30, 2006, 07:06:02 PM
Kearse is overrated, but without him the line completely disappeared. Gotcha.
I tried explaining this to him already, he won't ahve any of it.
Kearse is/was a monster and without him the d-line has not only turned to shtein in the running game, but in the pass-rush as well.
Kearse IS overrated. The money he got and the hype on him would have made you think that we was the defensive savior, which he is not.
BUT, he is a player that has to be accounted for because of his ability to get to the QB and that's where his contributions were largest. He was frequently double teamed or at least had the attention of a second player freeing up space for others to get into the backfield. He was overrated. Anyone with that much hype is bound to be overrated, but he made the rest of the line stronger. It really isn't that complicated.
Too bad he's over-paid and injury prone as all hell.
Quote from: rjs246 on November 30, 2006, 07:16:34 PM
Kearse IS overrated. The money he got and the hype on him would have made you think that we was the defensive savior, which he is not.
BUT, he is a player that has to be accounted for because of his ability to get to the QB and that's where his contributions were largest. He was frequently double teamed or at least had the attention of a second player freeing up space for others to get into the backfield. He was overrated. Anyone with that much hype is bound to be overrated, but he made the rest of the line stronger. It really isn't that complicated.
Too bad he's over-paid and injury prone as all hell.
Over payed? Yeah...Overrated? Probably...but he was still a great player. Any guy who's good enough to make all the other guys around him better/look better is a great player. It's been tough watching Trent Cole and Howard eat all the double teams since Kearse went down.
I think we all underestimated how good it was having Kearse and Cole at the DE's and Howard at DT on 3rd downs. Having any one of those guys locked up 1-1 was such an advantage for this defense.
Ugh, injuries.
kearse was not a monster...he had a really good start to this year...for the other two years hes been here he was underwhelming
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 30, 2006, 07:24:10 PM
kearse was not a monster...he had a really good start to this year...for the other two years hes been here he was underwhelming
That's because he's had absolutely no one else to take the pressure off of him, and he even made them look good. Seriously, who's been starting opposite of him? Kalu? Darwin Walker and Hollis Thomas starting DT's... :yay Who do you think was eating the double teams laast year, allowing Trent Cole to get his 6 sacks?
And tell me, where's Trent Cole been since Kearse went down? Getting double teamed....how many sacks has he had since then anyway?
This defensive line misses Kearse a lot.
mpmcgraw is to Burrell as Phreak is to ________
:sly
Toby Keith.
This defensive line misses Kearse
who said they dont miss him...hes their best lineman of course they miss him...but being the best on this line isnt anything to be proud of...kearse has been subpar in his eagle career...thats all
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 30, 2006, 07:47:27 PM
This defensive line misses Kearse
who said they dont miss him...hes their best lineman of course they miss him...but being the best on this line isnt anything to be proud of...kearse has been subpar in his eagle career...thats all
As far as sack numbers go, maybe....But he's done good for a guy who was this line's only thread for pressure up until late last year when Cole took over.
He was brought in to do two things. Take up blockers and get sacks. He's accomplished exactly one of those things. He's been subpar.
The defensive line was going to breakdown eventually even with Kearse. The DTs have been dreadful and Howard has completely fallen off the map. Also moving Howard inside and putting Cole on the edge would've been taken away from them due to their inability to stop the run. There are hardly any 3rd and long situations anymore. Teams would still run the ball right at us.
Howard at DT...proooobably a better run stopper then Walker.
I see Eagle fans always talking about players that take up dbl teams, and draw doubles here and there. That this is how to judge good players. Do you remember when good players produced and did more than just occupy space...oh of 2 guys! :P