I post this is this section instead of the Rest Of The NFL because I don't give a farg about the other teams.
Don Banks (cnnsi) (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/don_banks/03/14/mock.draft3.part1/index.html)
Quote14 LB Ernie Sims Florida State Jr. 6-0 220
The Eagles have so many choices in this slot. They could take USC offensive tackle Winston Justice, replacing free agent Jon Runyan. They could go for a running back like DeAngelo Williams or LenDale White, or a receiver like Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes. But Sims gives them the outside linebacker they covet.
And you suckers say the Eagles don't care about LBs. Apparently you're wrong...dead wrong. Seriously, I know nothing about this guy, but he looks like he's a WIL so drafting him would be pure genius!
fsn re-print of scout.coms (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5399698)
I like their idea better.
mel kiper also has the birds taking ernie sims
I guess I like it better than Santonio Holmes.
fox sports....
14. Eagles Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State 14th SAME 14th / 14th
The Eagles would like to address their wide receiver woes via free agency, but a weak veteran crop could force Andy Reid to search for a diamond in the draft. Holmes is expected to run well on his pro day and re-establish himself as the elite receiver prospect in this draft, but fellow junior Chad Jackson is closing in.
I think all mocks that still have the Saints taking a QB should be ignored until updated.
If they draft Holmes I'll find VD and stab him in the neck.
whats wrong with holmes
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 15, 2006, 12:59:58 PM
mel kiper also has the birds taking ernie sims
Mel Kiper looks like a vampire lately and should not be trusted.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 15, 2006, 01:12:37 PM
whats wrong with holmes
What's wrong with him is probably that he's not good enough to be taken #14 in the draft.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 15, 2006, 01:12:37 PM
whats wrong with holmes
No chance in hell they draft a reciever in the 1st....this is the BIrds were talking about, not the Lions
Quotewhats wrong with holmes
He's from the slow big ten. Makes him look faster than he is.
I don't see him contributing to this team in year one, I'd rather they draft a player that would play as a rookie and draft a WR with size in the 2nd/3rd to step into the slot position (assuming that they don't get anyone in FA, which is looking likely).
im not advocating holmes i just wouldnt be pissed over it...theres no one they could take that would excite me or piss me off at 14 except for veedee
this years draft is snoozeville
Not being a draft-geek, someone enlighten me why Sims is a smarter pick than LenDale White...
Or Justice, assuming they don't sign Runyan....
I just don't know shtein about Sims....
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on March 15, 2006, 01:27:02 PM
Not being a draft-geek, someone enlighten me why Sims is a smarter pick than LenDale White...
Or Justice, assuming they don't sign Runyan....
I just don't know shtein about Sims....
dude is a stud...ran a flat 4.5 at the combine (5th among linebackers). The scouts a very high on him because he has incredible quickness to the ball and can change direction nice.
Mock Drafts + Free Agent Rumors = (http://img.coxnewsweb.com/B/00/68/62/image_662680.jpg)
Quote from: JailBird-man on March 15, 2006, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 15, 2006, 12:59:58 PM
mel kiper also has the birds taking ernie sims
Mel Kiper looks like a vampire lately and should not be trusted.
isnt it scary that mullet wig seems to grow larger every draft season
Quote from: reese125 on March 15, 2006, 01:37:01 PM
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on March 15, 2006, 01:27:02 PM
Not being a draft-geek, someone enlighten me why Sims is a smarter pick than LenDale White...
Or Justice, assuming they don't sign Runyan....
I just don't know shtein about Sims....
dude is a stud...ran a flat 4.5 at the combine (5th among linebackers). The scouts a very high on him because he has incredible quickness to the ball and can change direction nice.
so did Quinton Caver :paranoid
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 15, 2006, 01:21:12 PM
..theres no one they could take that would excite me or piss me off at 14 except for veedee
same here, although lendale would make me happy too.
Quote from: reese125 on March 15, 2006, 01:17:26 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 15, 2006, 01:12:37 PM
whats wrong with holmes
No chance in hell they draft a reciever in the 1st....this is the BIrds were talking about, not the Lions
what, like Freddie Mitchell...
Quote from: phillywin2k5 on March 15, 2006, 02:07:58 PM
Quote from: JailBird-man on March 15, 2006, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 15, 2006, 12:59:58 PM
mel kiper also has the birds taking ernie sims
Mel Kiper looks like a vampire lately and should not be trusted.
isnt it scary that mullet wig seems to grow larger every draft season
The hair is very disturbing. I would think Kiper has enough money to buy a wig made of hair.
That farging thing looks like vinyl.
GBNreport.com has the eagles taking .....Lendale White at #14 My guess is he slips w/slow 40 time and by Arizona getting Edge
would be great to see how many mocks had the birds taking Patterson last year.
i think if the Eagles end up taking the player that i projected them to take in January, i should get one of those sweet custom titles
Quote from: MURP on March 15, 2006, 03:57:56 PM
would be great to see how many mocks had the birds taking Patterson last year.
None, but the bottom of the round is a lot harder to predict.
FWIW, there were a few mocks that had the Eagles taking Reggie Brown in the 1st.
The Panthers took Thomas Davis with the 14th last year, which I recall some mocks had correct.
if you were a wr...came out in the last five years...and were rated to go anywhere in the same hemisphere as the eagles pick chances are there were a few mocks out there predicting you to philly
i don't know if this has been discussed anywhere else, but the saints situation is interesting now. IN THEORY, some "experts" say now with a true franchise QB in Brees, the Saints MAY trade the number 2 pick. Do you think the Birds could possibly trade to get the number 2? I know we don't need a number 2, but is it possible to then trade the number 2 for a possible spot in the draft where we could say draft a stud T to replace Runyan and trade Runyan and some picks and a fat DT, Kalu and others? I'm no J. Banner, but this gives me a slight draft chub thinking about it. Maybe this is just as foolish as the Walker trade. Hell I just want a kick-ass player in the draft that can start instantly and be an impact. Thoughts?
With Howard signed, I don't know who the Eagles would get with the #2 pick that would be worth trading away probably the whole draft and possibly a player. Mario Williams is a beast and a half and is probably the only guy worth trading up that far for, but I just don't see it.
dbrickashaw would be the only other player i could see them doing it for....but for what theyd have to give up they would just wait it out and take winston justice..even tho i think hes a reach at 14
anyway its not gonna happen
LenDale White is our man
I don't see any other options other than DT in the first round at this point. They let all these quality DTs get signed by teams, so they have to get a DT in the first round. Walker, Rayburn and Patterson aren't alone cutting it.
take a nap, you're dying here
These mock drafts are always way off when it comes to the EAgles. They always seem to have them taking a WR, RB, or LB in the 1st round and it never happens. Won't happen again this year. It'll be a DT or OT.
Quote from: PhillyFan on March 15, 2006, 08:59:23 PM
These mock drafts are always way off.
That's really all that needs to be said.
I hope the Eagles draft Winston Justice. That is all.
Their man will be Brodrick Bunkley.....put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I think they go after Ngata. I would prefer Bunkley though.
They'd have to trade up for Ngata... Bunkley will likely fall into their laps.
I have a feeling the Ravens will now take Bunkley.
Quote from: EagleFeva on March 16, 2006, 01:10:24 PM
They'd have to trade up for Ngata... Bunkley will likely fall into their laps.
Do you think the Bills will still take him?
Quote from: NGM on March 16, 2006, 01:14:51 PM
Quote from: EagleFeva on March 16, 2006, 01:10:24 PM
They'd have to trade up for Ngata... Bunkley will likely fall into their laps.
Do you think the Bills will still take him?
Yeah, I think so. They wanted to grab Pickett as well as Triplett but Pickett obviously signed with the Packers. Even last year, DT was a weakness of theirs and even moreso since they cut Sam Adams. They're looking for as many good DT's as they can get.
okay...i'm bored so here's a mock i found:
Quote2006 NFL Mock Draft
1. Houston Texans - Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New Orleans Saints - A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State
3. Tennessee Titans - Matt Leinart, QB, USC
4. New York Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
5. Green Bay Packers - Mario Williams, DE, NC State
6. San Francisco 49ers - Michael Huff, CB/S, Texas
7. Oakland Raiders - Vince Young, QB, Texas
8. Buffalo Bills - Halogi Ngata, DT, Oregon
9. Detroit Lions - Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
10. Arizona Cardinals - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
11. St. Louis Rams - Ernie Sims, OLB, Florida St.
12. Cleveland Browns - Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
13. Baltimore Ravens - Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
14. Philadelphia Eagles - Gabe Watson, DT, Michigan
15. Atlanta Falcons - Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
16. Miami Dolphins - Winston Justice, OT, USC
17. Minnesota Vikings - LenDale White, RB, USC
18. Dallas Cowboys - Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
19. San Diego Chargers - Jonathan Scott, OT, Texas
20. Kansas City Chiefs - Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2006/mockdraft.shtml
it takes into account the saints trade so i figure it must be somewhat updated.
another
Quote14 Philadelphia Eagles Winston Justice Offensive Tackle USC
Even if the Eagles do resign Jon Runyan this might be a smart pick since Runyan (32) and Tra Thomas (31) are getting up their in age. Winston would give the Eagles quality depth and help keep McNabb on his feet. Other options are a defensive lineman like Brodrick Bunkley, or a receiver like Santonio Holmes.
http://www.draftace.com/draft2006/mockdraftround1.htm
I've been on the Justice bandwagon for a while. So I alike this one. If you want a Super Bowl ring, draft Justice!
If the Saints take A.J. Hawk over Ferguson, they're insane. I still think Ferguson should be the #1 pick in this draft, especially considering Houston's selecting first.
I see someone rocketing up the boards to get him if Houston doesn't snag him first. The Saints are dreadful in so many areas, they could use as many picks as they can get.
yeah...i don't know how good these mocks are. i'm hella bored so i'm just looking for mocks on random websites.
QuoteMOCK DRAFT: Round 1
Pick Team Player Pos. School Previous Rising/Falling High/Low
1. Texans Reggie Bush RB USC 1st SAME 1st / 1st
As the draft approaches, the only question with the top overall selection will be if the Texans keep the pick.
2. Saints D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT Virginia 4th (+2) 2nd / 6th
With Drew Brees on board, the Saints should have options with plenty of players worthy of teams attempting to trade up. Should the Saints keep the pick, Ferguson, a potential Pro Bowl left tackle, fills the biggest need.
3. Titans Matt Leinart QB USC 2nd (-1) 2nd / 3rd
The Titans might have received a pleasant gift with Brees landing in New Orleans. Suddenly Leinart, who would reunite with former Southern Cal and current Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow, could fall into their lap.
4. Jets Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt 4th SAME 4th / 9th
New coach Eric Mangini can put his stamp on the club immediately by selecting his own franchise quarterback as insurance against yet another Chad Pennington injury.
5. Packers Mario Williams DE N.C. State 5th SAME 5th / 5th
Williams may not make it this far, as many teams are grading him as the second-best prospect of the draft. But if the Saints keep the No. 2 pick, Williams could slide to the Packers.
6. 49ers Vernon Davis TE Maryland 10th (+4) 6th / 10th
The 49ers have to surround Alex Smith with weapons if they expect him to be successful. They replaced wide receiver Brandon Lloyd with free agent Antonio Bryant, but this offense needs a receiving threat over the middle.
7. Raiders A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State 7th SAME 7th / 7th
For Art Shell to return to the Raiders of old, he'll need more difference-makers on defense. There isn't a defender more likely to make an immediate impact than Hawk.
8. Bills Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State 8th SAME 8th / 10th
Bunkley fits the defensive alignment of new coordinator Perry Fewell nicely and is moving up the board after a spectacular season, Senior Bowl and Combine performance.
9. Lions Michael Huff DB Texas 9th SAME 9th / 11th
With question marks at both cornerback and safety, a versatile defender like Huff makes a great deal of sense here.
10. Cardinals Vince Young QB Texas 3rd (-7) 3rd / 10th
Kurt Warner provided Eli Manning with a solid mentor his first season. He could provide Vince Young with a similar calming influence. Young could silence critics with an impressive Pro Day, but some scouts are already projecting an Aaron Rodgers-like drop.
11. Rams Jimmy Williams CB Virginia Tech 11th SAME 11th / 15th
There isn't a defensive back with more natural ability than Williams, and the Rams' shaky defensive secondary could use a versatile athlete immediately.
12. Browns
Kamerion Wimbley OLB Florida State 8th (+6) 12th / 18th
Considered a bit of a reach at this point, it might not be by April. Wimbley is moving up the board and would provide the Browns with a legitimate pass rusher.
13. Ravens Haloti Ngata DT Oregon 13th (-1) 12th / 18th
With the free agent loss of rugged defensive tackle Maake Kemoeatu, the Ravens will be looking to the draft for help. Ngata, potentially a dominant presence, could slip amid concerns about his motor.
14. Eagles Ernie Sims OLB Florida State 23rd (+9) 14th / 23rd
The Eagles' lack of speed and aggression at outside linebacker was one of the reasons for an uncharacteristically poor run defense in 2005. Sims could help remedy the situation.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5408652
You said hella.
:-D
damn straight dook.
okay, last one:
Quote14. Philadelphia Eagles
Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
Comment: It appears the Terrell Owens experiment didn't work out, leaving the Eagles once again searching for downfield targets. Holmes is the best option of a thin receiver crowd, but unless Philly does something in free agency it's a position of need. The Eagles could also look at LenDale White to fill a role similar to what he did in college, handling between-the-tackles work while Brian Westbrook works the outside, and if Bunkley slips past the Ravens the Eagles would love for him to replace the void left by Corey Simon's departure.
http://www.fanball.com/fb/article.cfm/ID.5700
The Eagles taking Watson at #14 would make me furious.
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 18, 2006, 10:45:45 AM
The Eagles taking Watson at #14 would make me furious.
no doubt. that would be a terrible pick at #14 IMO.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on March 18, 2006, 09:58:35 AM
If the Saints take A.J. Hawk over Ferguson, they're insane. I still think Ferguson should be the #1 pick in this draft, especially considering Houston's selecting first.
This is what I've been saying for months. Houston drafting Bush would be the epitome of stupid.
I can't see Houston being dumb enough to take Racin' Reggie at #1. They're already paying Domanick Davis millions to run the ball. Why the farg would they take a running back, albeit one with Gale Sayers-like abilities?
Nope - it would be D'Brick all the way if I were making that pick.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on March 18, 2006, 11:18:48 AM
Nope - it would be D'Brick all the way if I were making that pick.
Or... trade down with someone that desperately could use a guy like Reggie Bush, and probably still get D'Brick.
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 18, 2006, 11:32:29 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on March 18, 2006, 11:18:48 AM
Nope - it would be D'Brick all the way if I were making that pick.
Or... trade down with someone that desperately could use a guy like Reggie Bush, and probably still get D'Brick.
Exactly... If I'm the Texans and I'm not taking Bush, there's not way I stay put and pick at #1. Trade down, get a couple picks and get the guy I want.
I agree. I've been talkin about Houston needing to take Ferguson for awhile now. If Casserly isn't smart enough to realize that he has to trade out of #1 to acquire more picks or stay put and draft Ferguson he's a dumb motherfarger.
I just wish there was a feasible way that we could trade up to get him or Super Mario.
History has proven that #1 overall picks rarely live up to the hype, if I were running team and had the #1 overall selection I'd trade it for the best I could get unless there was a possible franchise QB to take. No way would I take a RB with the pick regardless of who it is (Even if it meant passing up Bush)
Like to see them get a LB in FA two good ones left
Like to see them get one of Denvers 1`st round picks they
want to trade for a 2007 1s t and something else
Like to see them get White and a stud DT with those two 1st round picks
and get a OT thats maybe as good as DBrick - in the second round - Whitworth grades out with several scouting firms a close second
Now thats the kind of draft that would make me howl
Quote from: iowaigglefan on March 20, 2006, 12:16:37 AM
Like to see them get one of Denvers 1`st round picks they
want to trade for a 2007 1s t and something else
Uhm.... no. The way things are looking right now, our 2007 1st rounder should be a quality pick.
As long as they stay away from PSU players im fine with whoever they take.
eagles take a wr or lb in round 1? somebody must not be paying attention. this draft has tradeup written all over it.
This draft more likely has trade down all over it.
i'm thinking a lateral trade will be the play
current draft grade c-
but dood....
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 24, 2006, 04:42:46 PM
current draft grade c-
I'm going to have to agree as of now.
EDIT: (because they stunk it up last year and still got the 14th pick instead of something much better)
Quote from: Sun_Mo on March 24, 2006, 04:42:12 PM
i'm thinking a lateral trade will be the play
obvious, but ha! nevertheless
If the Eagles hadn't already added Darren Howard, I'd be starting to lean strongly towards them selecting Kamerion Wimbley out of FSU. 6'37/8", 248 lbs. Scouts and sites are pimping him as a "poor man's" DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman and resigning him to playing OLB in a 3-4. However, he has no less capacity for adding bulk than a Trent Cole and absolutely fits the definition of "throwing fastballs". Considering they have a gunshot victim and a journeyman behind the top 3 guys at DE, Jevon Kearse has disappointed a bit and Darren Howard is not a slam dunk... I'm starting to think Wimbley is a distinct possibility.
But since they did add Howard, I think Bunkley would still be their first choice. If he's not there, I think they go with Wimbley instead of Winston Justice, Chad Greenway, LenDale White, or Santonio Holmes.
I know, right?
They'll take Bunkley. If he is off the board, they'll trade down and grab Gabe Watson or Marcus McNeill. They are going with either of the lines in the first round. All the mocks who say LB, WR, etc., are grabbing at straws. I still see some listing Greenway (who did have decent pro-day btw).
I don't see the Eagles taking Gabe Watson, even if they didn't get a DT in the 1st and he's there at their 2nd round pick. The guy already has the quitting skills of Corey Simon, but he hasn't made any money yet.
I also think they'll stay away from Claude Wroten, no matter what.
A name to remember in round 2: Jonathan Lewis, DT, Va Tech. I think the Eagles would be quite likely to take him if they do not land a DT in round 1. He fits their M/O. He's a penetrater/disrupter who's not known for run defense.
I still think the names to remember are Kyle Williams and Claude Wroten (only now because the charges against him were dropped) because the Eagles hired LSU's Dline coach.
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 25, 2006, 02:39:44 AM
A name to remember in round 2: Jonathan Lewis, DT, Va Tech. I think the Eagles would be quite likely to take him if they do not land a DT in round 1. He fits their M/O. He's a penetrater/disrupter who's not known for run defense.
Agreed. He'd be a solid guy in round 2, John McCargo would be good too. S
Quote from: MURP on March 25, 2006, 09:01:50 AM
I still think the names to remember are Kyle Williams and Claude Wroten (only now because the charges against him were dropped) because the Eagles hired LSU's Dline coach.
Good thought. A guy I'd look at for the later rounds would be Melvin Oliver too (DE on LSU) but im not sure if he was a senior or not. He can play DT a little too and produced very well although theres nothing really special about him regarding athletic ability.
Regarding Wroten, its a shame really with his legal issues. We could have easily gotten a top 3 DT at pick 14 (Wroten was mid to late 1st before marijuana charges) and it wouldnt have been a reach. Now we need to hope someone ahead of us like CLE doesnt take Bunkley.
Quote from: MURP on March 25, 2006, 09:01:50 AM
Claude Wroten (only now because the charges against him were dropped) because the Eagles hired LSU's Dline coach.
I didn't think of that little wrinkle.
The Eagles are certainly more likely to take a guy who has a past (assuming that it's not that serious and that it's behind him) than a guy who takes plays off like Watson or Wright.
Updated Ourlads first round mock (http://www.ourlads.com/2006NFLMockDraft.html)
They have the Rams taking Bunkley at #11 (something I said was a real possibility).
Eagles take LenDale? I dunno.
My two guys, Wimbley and Lawson, fall to #20 and #21.
look how far down they pushed tamba
If that's what goes down with Bunkley... then I'd just as well see them trade back a few spots and grab Gabe Watson.
I think Tamba will fall into the 2nd round.
Vince Young's not even on there.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 30, 2006, 10:45:30 AM
look how far down they pushed tamba
Hell... they pushed Kiwi and even Vince entirely out of the 1st round.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on March 30, 2006, 10:48:26 AM
Vince Young's not even on there.
He shouldn't be, IMO, and they explain their thinking in depth at the top the page.
EDIT: Also, Ourlads picks their mocks totally based on their evaluations of team needs and the players to be drafted. They do not factor in what the team's FO tends to do or what they think they will actually do. Hence, why they have the Eagles taking LenDale White.
yeah, but's a BS mock. he's gonna go somewhere, regardless of what these guys think. it's about predicting the draft, not slotting players where they "should" go.
i just soiled myself at the thought of drafting lendale. he's #1 on my list.
one of the top 5-6 DTs will still be there at our 2nd pick.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on March 30, 2006, 10:50:16 AM
yeah, but's a BS mock. he's gonna go somewhere, regardless of what these guys think. it's about predicting the draft, not slotting players where they "should" go.
Word.
Quote from: EagleFeva on March 30, 2006, 10:51:43 AM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on March 30, 2006, 10:50:16 AM
yeah, but's a BS mock. he's gonna go somewhere, regardless of what these guys think. it's about predicting the draft, not slotting players where they "should" go.
Word.
Read my EDITED note above. Ourlads does not claim to be predicting what will happen. They like to think they're predicting what SHOULD happen.
vince young not in the first round and scott mitchell at #3
credibility = none
haha Scott Mitchell
Vince Young will suck goat nut in the pros.
Lendale White would be outstanding, but if there is any truth to the TJ Duckett thing he would be just as good.
Trading back and grabbing Watson and picking up another first day pick would be awesome.
Vince Young will be a massive bust.
Yeah, but the thing is bust or not... Vince Young will be a 1st round draft pick. And a top 10 draft pick... at WORST. No getting around that. Any mock draft that misses that fact is silly.
vince young will have a better career than any QB picked in front of him.
Maybe, but if that's the case there are going to be some truly AWFUL quarterbacks picked in the first round.
And that's different from any other year, how?
vince young has insane tools....if he is receptive to coaching and doesnt have an ego trip he will be very good to special...if he acts like ryan leaf hell be out of the league in about the same amount of time
Quote from: EagleFeva on March 30, 2006, 11:03:04 AM
Yeah, but the thing is bust or not... Vince Young will be a 1st round draft pick. And a top 10 draft pick... at WORST. No getting around that. Any mock draft that misses that fact is silly.
You are failing to grasp that Ourlads does not pretend to do a mock draft the same way as other sources.
They are playing GM for every team, not predicting what the actual GM's will do. Get it?
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 30, 2006, 11:16:53 AM
vince young has insane tools....if he is receptive to coaching and doesnt have an ego trip he will be very good to special...if he acts like ryan leaf hell be out of the league in about the same amount of time
He has the same tools as Vick - only less accurate and not as fast. Based on that I'm guessing he won't even be as good as Vick (who sucks).
actually, he dominates Vick when it comes to career passing stats in college, while Vick was mostly a runner. Vince has great passing numbers while running as well.
are you joking...he is ten times the thrower that vick is...vick is a running back playing qb...vince young is a qb that can run
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 30, 2006, 11:43:17 AM
are you joking...he is ten times the thrower that vick is...vick is a running back playing qb...vince young is a qb that can run
Vick's arm is like a sniper rifle with a broken scope. Young's is like a top-of-the-line slingshot. Choose your poison.
Young's is like a top-of-the-line slingshot
i dont follow
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 30, 2006, 11:49:15 AM
Young's is like a top-of-the-line slingshot
i dont follow
He can never and will never have the type of velocity that Vick's arm can generate, but he does as good a job as could be hoped for, considering the highly-flawed way he throws the ball.
while his arm strength is not vicks its far superior to leinerts and is strong enough to make any nfl throw...thats not even a question with vince...its all about him being able to elevate his release point
I think the real question is, How many piles of ballhair will Vince Young suck as a professional? I'm guessing 14. 14 piles.
I'm not just talking about the arm "strength". I'm talking about the combination of less-than desirable arm strength with the awkward throwing motion and low release point. Watching clips of his pro day was deja vu after watching Michael Robinson all year.
Well at least he's really inaccurate with the long ball.
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 30, 2006, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: EagleFeva on March 30, 2006, 11:03:04 AM
Yeah, but the thing is bust or not... Vince Young will be a 1st round draft pick. And a top 10 draft pick... at WORST. No getting around that. Any mock draft that misses that fact is silly.
You are failing to grasp that Ourlads does not pretend to do a mock draft the same way as other sources.
They are playing GM for every team, not predicting what the actual GM's will do. Get it?
No actually, I totally grasp it. What you're missing is my point that Oulads' mock is pointless. I can play GM and construct a mock draft and put players where I think they
should go... saving all the best players for the Eagles, for example. But because I say that this is how I think the draft
should be instead of how it will be, it's somehow less asinine? I don't get that part.
we (ourlads) are smarter than everyone else...thats essentially what they are trying to say....which couldnt be further from the truth...like you said feva me or you could do the same exact thing
Well, I like this take on it. It's a lot more realistic than actually trying to mix your evaluations of a player with what you believe someone else's to be. Plus, any mock that has Vince Young where he deserves to go gets props from me.
bunkley sucks, ourlads sucks, and if Cleveland steals Greenway from the Eagles, they suck.
Quote from: Mad-Lad on March 30, 2006, 01:13:25 PM
bunkley sucks, ourlads sucks, and if Cleveland steals Greenway from the Eagles, they suck.
Don't forgot my mom.
Ha. This thread sucks ass.
Quote« Last Edit: Today at 01:25:53 PM by Mad-Lad »
Ha.
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 30, 2006, 01:31:39 PM
Quote« Last Edit: Today at 01:25:53 PM by Mad-Lad »
Ha.
almost as funny as having to resort to a "your mom" comment.
I didn't have to. I chose to.
Generic Comcast SportsNet web guy (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_1p.asp?ID=27876) has the Eagles taking Greenway
Greenway eats pens.
an "inside scout" says Greenway is exactly like Simoneau, but taller. I think it was an inside scout. I heard it awhile ago, before us mods received the "ignore" feature.
That inside scout guy sounds smart.
I am not exactly sure what to think of Greenway, but I just don't see him being an Eagle. First off I don't see Cleveland passing on him and second the Eagles just don't take LBs in the 1st round.
Quote from: BigEd76 on March 31, 2006, 02:25:27 PM
Generic Comcast SportsNet web guy (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_1p.asp?ID=27876) has the Eagles taking Greenway
It's kind of telling when the guy didn't even get the first round order correct:
Quote6. Oakland, Vince Young, QB, Texas
Despite the signing of Aaron Brooks to a two-year deal and the drafting of Andrew Walter last season, the Raiders can't pass up the opportunity to select a special player like this. Young (6-5, 230) is an excellent athlete who showed he could carry a team on his back. There are concerns with his unorthodox delivery, but his quick release and height should negate his awkward throwing angle.
7. San Francisco, Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
With so many needs the Niners opt for the top tight end in the draft, giving young Alex Smith some help. Davis (6-3, 250) wowed observers at the combine with his physique and speed. He should finally give opposing defenses something to worry about next season.
I cant see them taking a linebacker anyway because the Eagles dont pay that kind of 1st round money to LB's. They invest 1st rounders more in the D and O line. Plus, Greenway plays the WILL, a spot that McCoy is surely to win this year. Dude is a friggin beast though. Nothing surprises me with Birds nowadays, so who the F knows.
Quote from: reese125 on March 31, 2006, 10:20:59 PM
Greenway plays the WILL, a spot that McCoy is surely to win this year. Dude is a friggin beast though.
dont rule out super knee Barber
thought u meant something else, my bad
ha.... nah i meant good old SHAWN BARBER.
who is seriously going to be there on the DL for us, scrathing my head over here?
Quote from: reese125 on March 31, 2006, 10:28:23 PM
who is seriously going to be there on the DL for us, scrathing my head over here?
Kamerion Wimbley, Manny Lawson.
Beliee Dat.
Patt, have you seen any SS out there worth taking a look at...when Dawkins says c-ya bye? I know we have Mikell, but can he do the job
Well, Dawkins is a FS, not that the distinction is overly important.
Looking at guys who might be there in the 2nd or later:
Jason Allen - excellent cover guy, not a pure hitter like Dawkins, though
Pat Watkins - he's all potential, probably a few years away from even hoping to start in the NFL, but could be a stud
Marcus Hudson - might not have the brains to play FS in Johnson's scheme, but has the nasty streak
Antoine Bethea - division I-AA stud who has all the tools you look for, but might just be a product of low level of competition
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 01, 2006, 10:47:20 AM
Well, Dawkins is a FS, not that the distinction is overly important.
Looking at guys who might be there in the 2nd or later:
Jason Allen - excellent cover guy, not a pure hitter like Dawkins, though
Pat Watkins - he's all potential, probably a few years away from even hoping to start in the NFL, but could be a stud
Marcus Hudson - might not have the brains to play FS in Johnson's scheme, but has the nasty streak
Antoine Bethea - division I-AA stud who has all the tools you look for, but might just be a product of low level of competition
well done sir...thanks
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 25, 2006, 01:38:00 AM
I don't see the Eagles taking Gabe Watson, even if they didn't get a DT in the 1st and he's there at their 2nd round pick. The guy already has the quitting skills of Corey Simon, but he hasn't made any money yet.
I also think they'll stay away from Claude Wroten, no matter what.
I think the Waston "laziness" thing is maybe a bit over-hyped. The dude constantly draws double teams, and can win them. He is a stuffer, and would be an excellent compliment to Patterson. At 6'4" and 340lbs, he is a big, strong run stuffer which is what the D line needs. Not a Patterson clone in Bunkley. Read what I posted here for more on Watson. (http://www.concretefield.com/forum/index.php?topic=17699.msg399027#msg399027) If the Birds were able to trade down and grab Watson, and get another pick for the 14 spot, it would be an excellent move IMO.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 01, 2006, 11:34:50 AM
I think the Waston "laziness" thing is maybe a bit over-hyped. The dude constantly draws double teams, and can win them. He is a stuffer, and would be an excellent compliment to Patterson. 6'4" and 340lbs, a big, strong run stuffer is what the line needs. Not a Patterson clone in Bunkley. Read what I posted here for more on Watson. (http://www.concretefield.com/forum/index.php?topic=17699.msg399027#msg399027) If the Birds were able to trade down and grab Watson, and get another pick for the 14 spot, it would be an excellent move IMO.
I agree with you, personally. I just don't see it happening with this Eagles FO. And the fact I don't see it happening probably makes it all the more likely. Ha.
I agree about Watson I personally think he would be a good addition if they could trade down. As far as them picking a DT in the first round I just don't see that happening at this point unless they trade down or up. Moving up would be for Bunkley or Ngata moving down because there is no one of value at 14. San Fran would be a good trade partner if they would like to move up IMO.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 01, 2006, 12:10:37 PM
San Fran would be a good trade partner if they would like to move up IMO.
How do you figure? The Eagles would have to give up at LEAST their 2nd and a couple of the 4ths to get that far up.
I don't see anyone in this draft that will be there at #6 worth moving up that far for... certainly not Ngata or Bunkley.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 01, 2006, 12:19:38 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 01, 2006, 12:10:37 PM
San Fran would be a good trade partner if they would like to move up IMO.
How do you figure? The Eagles would have to give up at LEAST their 2nd and a couple of the 4ths to get that far up.
I don't see anyone in this draft that will be there at #6 worth moving up that far for... certainly not Ngata or Bunkley.
Ngata is imo, he is going to be picked fairly high. I think they could get a way with just a second rounder. I don't see them doing it I am just saying if they were to move up SF would be a team that they may do it with given there past history. The only other teams that I could see would be Detroit or Arizona., with AZ being highly unlikely.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 01, 2006, 12:23:36 PM
Ngata is imo, he is going to be picked fairly high. I think they could get a way with just a second rounder. I don't see them doing it I am just saying if they were to move up SF would be a team that they may do it with given there past history. The only other teams that I could see would be Detroit or Arizona., with AZ being highly unlikely.
Detroit or AZ would be a TON more likely, just based on positioning. Moving from #14 to #6 is a HUGE jump and would require MUCH more than just a 2nd rounder, despite your opinion to the contrary.
I just can't see this Eagles team trading up this year, and I hope I'm right.
There are really only two DTs I can see the Eagles possibly wanting to take in the first round that would make sense:
Ngata 6'5", 340: Would require a trade up, unless somehow he drops.
Watson 6'4" 340: Could maybe trade down for him, but if they just took him at 14 I wouldn't be too upset.
I think if Ngata goes, which is most likely, and they can't trade down to a spot and get what they want pick and position wise, they go with an O-lineman, or just BPA. I don't see them wanting to line up two smaller, quick, one gap DTs side-by-side. Patterson is going to be a solid tackle for years, but he may turn into a stellar one if you give him a huge tackle to line up next that will eat up double teams and stuff the run. If they want a guy similar to Patterson, it'll be for depth and add to the rotation, and I think they'll grab one in the later rounds.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 01, 2006, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 01, 2006, 12:23:36 PM
Ngata is imo, he is going to be picked fairly high. I think they could get a way with just a second rounder. I don't see them doing it I am just saying if they were to move up SF would be a team that they may do it with given there past history. The only other teams that I could see would be Detroit or Arizona., with AZ being highly unlikely.
Detroit or AZ would be a TON more likely, just based on positioning. Moving from #14 to #6 is a HUGE jump and would require MUCH more than just a 2nd rounder, despite your opinion to the contrary.
I just can't see this Eagles team trading up this year, and I hope I'm right.
I hope your right too, I don't think this years draft it will cost nearly as much to move up as you think. Personally I don't really see a lot of teams moving unless there is a team that absolutely loves a player and is in dire need to acquire him. I think the Eagles stand pat and if I had to make a prediction today it would be Chad Jackson as there selection.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 01, 2006, 12:56:28 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 01, 2006, 12:27:11 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 01, 2006, 12:23:36 PM
Ngata is imo, he is going to be picked fairly high. I think they could get a way with just a second rounder. I don't see them doing it I am just saying if they were to move up SF would be a team that they may do it with given there past history. The only other teams that I could see would be Detroit or Arizona., with AZ being highly unlikely.
Detroit or AZ would be a TON more likely, just based on positioning. Moving from #14 to #6 is a HUGE jump and would require MUCH more than just a 2nd rounder, despite your opinion to the contrary.
I just can't see this Eagles team trading up this year, and I hope I'm right.
I hope your right too, I don't think this years draft it will cost nearly as much to move up as you think. Personally I don't really see a lot of teams moving unless there is a team that absolutely loves a player and is in dire need to acquire him. I think the Eagles stand pat and if I had to make a prediction today it would be Chad Jackson as there selection.
this is what we want...everyone thinking they will stand pat, and the Eagles go the total opposite and move up to aquire a DT. Never fails...always go opposite (Seinfeld).... ;).
I would love to see Ngata or Watson lined up nest to Patterson for the next few years, but what I think you guys are missing is the fact that neither of these guys fit JJ's mold for a DT.
When, under the present leadership of this team, have any of you seen a DT over 310-315lbs? (Corey doesen't count he wasn't sopposed to be that big)
I just don't wee it happening. If the Eagles take a DT I think it will be Bunkley. They need impact up front, they already have the rotational type guys on the roster.
Quote from: Displaced on April 01, 2006, 02:32:03 PM
When, under the present leadership of this team, have any of you seen a DT over 310-315lbs? (Corey doesen't count he wasn't sopposed to be that big)
The point isn't whether or not they've had guys like this. The point is how highly they value guys like this.
They usually like to have 1 or 2 big, run-stuffing DT's (ie: Hollis), but they wouldn't trade UP for one in the 1st round of the draft. That's for damn sure.
QuoteThe point isn't whether or not they've had guys like this. The point is how highly they value guys like this.
I think the two points are one in the Same FF.
Hollis may have played the role of "Run stuffer" but never at 340lbs or anything close to it.
The Eagles have had various and sundried chances to obtain guys of this hieght and weight and have passed them over time and time again. I doubt they take either one of these guys if either one of them are available where they pick and they certainly won't manuever to get them.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 01, 2006, 11:34:50 AM
I think the Waston "laziness" thing is maybe a bit over-hyped.
I get sick of all these "negatives" on these draft boards. Good lord even Bush, Leinart, Young, D'Brickashaw, Coleman etc. are busts if you read into these negative reports. I agree on your "excellent compliment" observation to Patterson. That could be a great combo.
Quote from: Displaced on April 01, 2006, 03:10:17 PM
QuoteThe point isn't whether or not they've had guys like this. The point is how highly they value guys like this.
I think the two points are one in the Same FF.
Hollis may have played the role of "Run stuffer" but never at 340lbs or anything close to it.
Ha! Hollis runs at least 350 right now.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 01, 2006, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: Displaced on April 01, 2006, 03:10:17 PM
QuoteThe point isn't whether or not they've had guys like this. The point is how highly they value guys like this.
I think the two points are one in the Same FF.
Hollis may have played the role of "Run stuffer" but never at 340lbs or anything close to it.
Ha! Hollis runs at least 350 right now.
At an even six foot too. Fat shtein.
I don't think that size is really an issue with the Eagles as far as DTs go it is more of how quick they are and obviously smaller DTs tend to be quicker than the lardasses.
with 11 picks, i don't see why they'd move down to acquire extra picks...if anything, try to move up...unless they intend on having 10+ rookies on the roster this year.
Quote from: hunt on April 01, 2006, 08:55:17 PM
with 11 picks, i don't see why they'd move down to acquire extra picks...if anything, try to move up...unless they intend on having 10+ rookies on the roster this year.
The more picks that you have the more they can be parlayed into future picks or move up later in the draft.
Quote from: hunt on April 01, 2006, 08:55:17 PM
with 11 picks, i don't see why they'd move down to acquire extra picks...if anything, try to move up...unless they intend on having 10+ rookies on the roster this year.
I think you move down to get more 1st day picks. Apparently, the 2nd and 3rd rounds will be a gold mine this year. Then, maybe they can use some of those 4th rounders to move up into the 3rd... or something.
It's an option. Still, I think they stay put and take the top guy on their board.
Pretty interesting site here: LINK (http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/y/nfl-draft/teams/index.php?steam=Phi)
Kind of like that "mock draft muncher" site, but it seems to use a ton more mocks, and it doesn't center around the Cleveland Browns. BTW, rjs gave me the link, but didn't want you all to know that he actually seeks football knowledge from time to time outside of CF. Ha.
I found this awesome first-round mock. Enjoy.
Quote
1. Texans - Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. Saints - Mario Williams, DE, NCSU
3. Titans - Jay Cutler, QB, Vandy
4. Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
5. Packers - A.J. Hawk, OLB, OSU
6. 49ers - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
7. Raiders - Vince Young, QB, Texas
8. Bills - Matt Leinart, QB, USC
9. Lions - Winston Justice, OT, USC
10. Cardinals - Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
11. Rams - Michael Huff, S, Texas
12. Browns - Brodrick Bunkley, DT, FSU
13. Ravens - Jimmy Williams, CB, VT
14. Eagles - Manny Lawson, DE, NCSU
15. Broncos - Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
16. Dolphins - Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
17. Vikings - Nick Mangold, C, OSU
18. Cowboys - Marcus McNeil, OT, Auburn
19. Chargers - Santonio Holmes, WR, OSU
20. Chiefs - Ashton Youboty, CB, OSU
21. Patriots - Kamerion Wimbley, OLB, FSU
22. Broncos - Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia
23. Bucs - Ernie Sims, OLB, FSU
24. Bengals - Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
25. Giants - Gabe Watson, DT, Michigan
26. Bears - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, BC
27. Panthers - Bobby Carpenter, OLB, OSU
28. Jaguars - Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
29. Jets - Tamba Hali, DE, PSU
30. Colts - DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
31. Seahawks - Max Jean-Gilles, OG, Georgia
32. Steelers - Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 03, 2006, 03:47:38 PM
I found this awesome first-round mock. Enjoy.
Quote
1. Texans - Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. Saints - Mario Williams, DE, NCSU
3. Titans - Jay Cutler, QB, Vandy
4. Jets - D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
5. Packers - A.J. Hawk, OLB, OSU
6. 49ers - Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
7. Raiders - Vince Young, QB, Texas
8. Bills - Matt Leinart, QB, USC
9. Lions - Winston Justice, OT, USC
10. Cardinals - Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
11. Rams - Michael Huff, S, Texas
12. Browns - Brodrick Bunkley, DT, FSU
13. Ravens - Jimmy Williams, CB, VT
14. Eagles - Manny Lawson, DE, NCSU
15. Broncos - Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
16. Dolphins - Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
17. Vikings - Nick Mangold, C, OSU
18. Cowboys - Marcus McNeil, OT, Auburn
19. Chargers - Santonio Holmes, WR, OSU
20. Chiefs - Ashton Youboty, CB, OSU
21. Patriots - Kamerion Wimbley, OLB, FSU
22. Broncos - Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia
23. Bucs - Ernie Sims, OLB, FSU
24. Bengals - Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
25. Giants - Gabe Watson, DT, Michigan
26. Bears - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, BC
27. Panthers - Bobby Carpenter, OLB, OSU
28. Jaguars - Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
29. Jets - Tamba Hali, DE, PSU
30. Colts - DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
31. Seahawks - Max Jean-Gilles, OG, Georgia
32. Steelers - Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
that wouldn't surprise me too much. every year the eagles pick someone who i never spoke a word of before that point.
Leinart to the Bills = stroke of genius
So they're saying Lendale White falls all the way out of the first round? I can't imagine his stock dropping THAT much.
Actually, draft "experts" around the country are already starting to say that.
Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on April 04, 2006, 07:36:05 AM
So they're saying Lendale White falls all the way out of the first round? I can't imagine his stock dropping THAT much.
Would you want to spend a first round pick on a guy who has shown a clear lack of maturity and has not given any inclination that he cares about the draft process.
I know plenty of fat people who can't run or bench press as much as they should. And none of them are getting drafted in the first or any other round of this year's draft. Maybe next year's, but definitely not this year's.
PS. Why on earth would you jerks erase my Tedy Bruschi post? Ugh...
Because you're a roid monkey.
that's weak, booooooooooooo
Not only did it rid us of my post of the year nominated post, but there was some decent back and forth there. Humor from Tomahawk... just poor form all around by 'whoever' erased it.
as RJS' lawyer, i demand an explanation
(http://www.hewroteshewrote.com/images/bruschi.jpg)
"Meh me big strong man meh bleh poo. <gurgle gurgle>"
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 04, 2006, 09:48:03 AM
as RJS' lawyer roommate, i demand an explanation
;)
QuoteFIRST ROUND:
1 Houston Texans Reggie Bush HB USC
2 New Orleans Saints D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT Virginia
3 Tennessee Titans Matt Leinart QB USC
4 New York Jets A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio St.
5 Green Bay Packers Mario Williams DE N.C. State
6 San Francisco 49ers Vernon Davis TE Maryland
7 Oakland Raiders Vince Young QB Texas
8 Buffalo Bills Michael Huff S/CB Texas
9 Detroit Lions Jimmy Williams CB/S Virginia Tech
10 Arizona Cardinals Winston Justice OT USC
11 St. Louis Rams Chad Greenway OLB Iowa
12 Cleveland Browns Haloti Ngata DT Oregon
13 Baltimore Ravens Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
14 Philadelphia Eagles Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida St.
15 Denver Broncos (from ATL) Chad Jackson WR Florida
16 Miami Dolphins Tye Hill CB Clemson
17 Minnesota Vikings Ernie Sims OLB Florida St.
18 Dallas Cowboys Manny Lawson DE/OLB N.C. State
19 San Diego Chargers Donte Whitner S Ohio St.
20 Kansas City Chiefs Antonio Cromartie CB Florida St.
21 New England Patriots LenDale White HB USC
22 Denver Broncos (from WAS) Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College
23 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Marcus McNeill OT Auburn
24 Cincinnatti Bengals Gabe Watson DT Michigan
25 New York Giants Santonio Holmes WR Ohio St.
26 Chicago Bears Leonard Pope TE Georgia
27 Carolina Panthers Bobby Carpenter OLB Ohio St.
28 Jacksonville Jaguars DeAngelo Williams HB Memphis
29 New York Jets (from ATL) Nick Mangold C Ohio St.
30 Indianapolis Colts Laurence Maroney HB Minnesota
31 Seattle Sewhawks Max Jean-Gilles OG Georgia
32 Pittsburgh Steelers Jason Allen S/CB Tennessee
SECOND ROUND:
33 Houston Texans Marcedes Lewis TE UCLA
34 New Orleans Saints DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama
35 New York Jets Tamba Hali DE Penn State
36 Green Bay Packers D'Qwell Jackson ILB Maryland
37 Oakland Raiders Darnell Bing S USC
38 San Francisco 49ers Thomas Howard OLB UTEP
39 Tennessee Titans Abdul Hodge ILB Iowa
40 Detroit Lions Davin Joseph OG Oklahoma
41 Arizona Cardinals Eric Winston OT Miami
42 Buffalo Bills Sinorice Moss WR Miami
43 Cleveland Browns Kamerion Wimbley DE/OLB Florida St.
44 Baltimore Ravens Charles Spencer OG Pittsburgh
45 Philadelphia Eagles Jonathan Scott OT Texas
46 St. Louis Rams Dominique Byrd TE USC
47 Atlanta Falcons Jonathan Joseph CB South Carolina
48 Minnesota Vikings Daryn Colledge OT/OG Boise St.
49 Dallas Cowboys Ko Simpson S South Carolina
50 San Diego Chargers Jeremy Trueblood OT Boston College
51 Minnesota Vikings Ashton Youbouty CB Ohio St.
52 New England Patriots Maurice Stovall WR Notre Dame
53 Washington taterskins Duce Latui OG USC
54 Kansas City Chiefs Darryl Tapp DE Virginia Tech
55 Cincinnatti Bengals Cedric Griffin CB/S Texas
56 New York Giants Richard Marshall CB Fresno St.
57 Chicago Bears Kai Parham ILB Virginia
58 Carolina Panthers Anthony Fasano TE Notre Dame
59 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Kelly Jennings CB Miami
60 Jacksonville Jaguars Rocky McIntosh OLB Miami
61 Denver Broncos Daniel Bullocks S Nebraska
62 Indianapolis Colts Jonathan Lewis DT Virginia Tech
63 Seattle Seahawks Claude Wroten DT LSU
64 Pittsburgh Steelers Rodrique Wright DT Texas
THIRD ROUND:
65 Houston Texans Rob Sims OG Ohio St.
66 Houston Texans (from NO) Ryan O'Callaghan OT California
67 Green Bay Packers Derek Hagan WR Arizona St.
68 San Francisco 49ers A.J. Nicholson OLB Florida St.
69 Oakland Raiders Joe Klopfenstein TE Colorado
70 Buffalo Bills (from TEN) John McCargo DT N.C. State
71 New York Jets Demetrius Williams WR Oregon
72 Arizona Cardinals Pat Watkins S Florida St.
73 Buffalo Bills Brodie Croyle QB Alabama
74 Detroit Lions Andrew Whitworth OT LSU
75 New England (from BAL) Dee Webb CB Florida
76 Philadelphia Eagles Jonathan Orr WR Wisconsin
77 St. Louis Rams DeMario Minter CB Georgia
78 Cleveland Browns Gerris Wilkerson ILB Georgia Tech
79 Atlanta Falcons Greg Eslinger C/G Minnesota
80 Dallas Cowboys Orien Harris DT Miami
81 San Diego Chargers Jason Avant WR Michigan
82 Miami Dolphins Stanley McClover DE/OLB Auburn
83 Minnesota Vikings Anthony Smith S Syracuse
84 San Francisco 49ers Victor Adeyanju DE Indiana
85 Kansas City Chiefs Jesse Mahelona DT Tennessee
86 New England Patriots Spencer Havner OLB UCLA
87 New York Giants Greg Jennings WR Western Michigan
88 Chicago Bears Mark Setterstrom OG Minnesota
89 Carolina Panthers Joseph Addai HB LSU
90 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Greg Lee WR Pittsburgh
91 Cincinnatti Bengals Anwar Phillips CB Penn St.
92 Jacksonville Jaguars Brian Calhoun HB Wisconsin
93 Atlanta Falcons (from DEN) Maurice Drew HB UCLA
94 Indianapolis Colts Bernard Pollard S Purdue
95 Minnesota Vikings (from SEA) Freddie Roach ILB Alabama
96 Pittsburgh Steelers Devin Hester WR/KR Miami
97 New York Jets (comp) Jerious Norwood HB Mississippi St
Quote
4 New York Jets A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio St.
13 Baltimore Ravens Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt
21 New England Patriots LenDale White HB USC
33 Houston Texans Marcedes Lewis TE UCLA
42 Buffalo Bills Sinorice Moss WR Miami
43 Cleveland Browns Kamerion Wimbley DE/OLB Florida St.
45 Philadelphia Eagles Jonathan Scott OT Texas
52 New England Patriots Maurice Stovall WR Notre Dame
62 Indianapolis Colts Jonathan Lewis DT Virginia Tech
63 Seattle Seahawks Claude Wroten DT LSU
64 Pittsburgh Steelers Rodrique Wright DT Texas
66 Houston Texans (from NO) Ryan O'Callaghan OT California
70 Buffalo Bills (from TEN) John McCargo DT N.C. State
76 Philadelphia Eagles Jonathan Orr WR Wisconsin
89 Carolina Panthers Joseph Addai HB LSU
My thoughts:
-Hawk to the Jets? Interesting. Could happen, I suppose, although I couldn't see them passing on Williams if he was there. Couldn't see that at all.
-The Ravens would jizz themselves if Cutler fell to #13, I bet. But it's kind of funny that he's a similar prospect to Boller. The whole thing on Boller was that he had the best mechanics and arm strength and yadda yadda, but he didn't have as much success in college as other guys. Now we see that he was, in fact, part of the reason for that.
-LenDale is pretty much everything the Pats are not about. I couldn't see that happening at all.
-The Texans using #33 on a TE after signing Putzier? Doubt it muchly.
-The Bills drafted Sinorice Moss last year, basically, in Roscoe Parrish. They also signed the speedy Andre Davis, and Lee Evans is a burner. I just don't see them going this route, even if Moss somehow lasts that long.
-The Browns would cream themselves if Wimbley fell to #43.
-I would hate life if the Eagles selected Scott at #45. He's like Antone Davis, but worse.
-The Pats really want to stock up on big, slow offensive skill position guys, eh? Although I could see Belicheck grabbing a guy who already has experience in a very similar offense, I guess.
-Lewis, Wroten, Wright, O'Callaghan, and McCargo would all be better picks than Jonathan Scott.
-I like the Orr pick in the 3rd round. I'd prefer him to Stovall, actually.
-Addai would be a great value pick for the Panthers in the 3rd. He's an underrated back IMO.
Who's draft is that? Yours SD?
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 04, 2006, 12:26:29 PM
Who's draft is that? Yours SD?
Some random one I found on the internet. A mock was called for so I supplied one.
I'm not a big Bunkley fan. He didn't impress me too much against BC this year (granted, BC's offensive line is bigger than some NFL lines). If we're going DT I'd much rather get Ngata.
new cnn/si mock is up....
Mock NFL Draft No. 4
1 RB Reggie Bush USC Jr. 6-0 200
At Sunday's USC pro-day workout, Bush didn't do anything but solidify his perch atop the draft, ripping off a 4.33 40-yard dash and topping 40 inches in the vertical jump. Don't out-think yourself on this one, Texans. Take the special player and be thankful you didn't have the 49ers' top-pick fate of last year.
2 DE Mario Williams N.C. State Jr. 6-7 285
Having bagged their quarterback in free agency, the Saints now can sit back and wait to see how much their No. 2 pick is worth on the open market. If nobody wants to deal badly enough, the book says pass rushers (Williams) are always more valuable than offensive tackles (D'Brickashaw Ferguson).
3 QB Matt Leinart USC Sr. 6-5 225
With ex-USC offensive coordinator Norm Chow now in Nashville, can the Titans pass on Leinart in favor of Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler? Probably not, but don't be shocked if they talk themselves into taking the hometown product, or entertain trading down for a package of picks (from Minnesota?).
4 OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson Virginia Sr. 6-5 295
With Patrick Ramsey acquired via trade, the Jets can avoid the first-round quarterback crap shoot and go with the top-rated prospect on their board. That's going to either be Ferguson or Williams, depending on what the Saints do at No. 2.
5 LB A.J. Hawk Ohio State Sr. 6-1 240
The Packers signed defensive tackle Ryan Pickett in free agency, lessening their need for Haloti Ngata, the Oregon run-stuffer. But another playmaker in the defensive front seven would further upgrade a unit that has already received plenty of attention this offseason.
6 TE Vernon Davis Maryland Jr. 6-3 250
If the 49ers have their choice between Hawk, Davis and Texas safety Michael Huff, they're going to be in what appears to be a no-lose situation. But Davis has star appeal written all over him after his boffo offseason workouts, and he'd make second-year quarterback Alex Smith instantly look better.
7 DB Michael Huff Texas Sr. 6-1 205
The Raiders recently signed veteran Aaron Brooks and last year drafted quarterback-of-the-future Andrew Walter in the third round. Can a team with so many needs still invest in the Vince Young project? Not likely. Huff fits because he's versatile and he plays the tough, hard-hitting style the Raiders once prided themselves on.
8 DT Haloti Ngata Oregon Jr. 6-5 345
The Bills added defensive tackle Larry Tripplett in free agency but still need another run-stopper in the middle. Ngata isn't a finished product, but he's the best space-eater this draft has to offer.
9 CB Jimmy Williams Virginia Tech Sr. 6-3 216
Despite signing both Jon Kitna and Josh McCown in free agency, the Lions could be tempted by the still-available Vince Young or Jay Cutler. But after going for offense in the first round so often in recent years, with meager results, Detroit should think defense and take the draft's highest-rated cover man.
10 QB Vince Young Texas Jr. 6-5 235
The Cardinals extended Kurt Warner's contract because head coach Dennis Green needs to win now. But if Young is still on the board, Green could be intrigued enough to take him, in the hope that Green and his staff are still around when Young's development is complete in a couple of years. USC offensive tackle Winston Justice is another name to watch for.
11 QB Jay Cutler Vanderbilt Sr. 6-4 228
The Rams aren't considered a quarterback-needy team, but Marc Bulger isn't exactly an iron man back there, and new head coach Scott Linehan might want to groom a guy who doesn't have the imprint of Mike Martz on him. Cutler would be a solid value in this slot.
12 LB Ernie Sims Florida State Jr. 6-0 220
Sims seems to be shooting up everyone's board, and he's exactly the playmaking presence the Browns are looking for in their 3-4 defense. Penn State defensive end Tamba Hali is another possibility here, but Sims seems to have the edge in that he can impact a game in more ways from his outside linebacker position.
13 DT Brodrick Bunkley Florida State Sr. 6-3 284
Bunkley continues to look like a top 15 pick in the wake of his impressive combine workout (44 bench-press reps, 4.97 time in the 40 at 307 pounds). The Ravens lost underrated DT Maake Kemoeatu to Carolina in free agency, and Bunkley would fill that vacancy rather nicely.
14 WR Chad Jackson Florida Jr. 6-1 205
Giving the Eagles USC offensive tackle Winston Justice would make sense, too, even though they re-signed veteran tackle Jon Runyan. But it's hard to see Philly's offense matching up with the likes of their NFC East rivals without a No. 1 receiver who can at least compare with Terrell Owens, Santana Moss and Plaxico Burress.
15 RB DeAngelo Williams Memphis Sr. 5-10 217
The Broncos got this pick from Atlanta in the John Abraham deal, and it should put them into prime position to fill their need at either receiver (Ohio State's Santonio Holmes?) or running back. Williams' strong pro-day workout has cemented his status as the draft's No. 2 back behind Bush.
16 OT Winston Justice USC Jr. 6-6 300
The Dolphins could opt to address needs at cornerback (Clemson's Tye Hill or South Carolina's Johnathan Joseph) or receiver (Ohio State's Santonio Holmes). But Justice is too highly rated to pass up. He had a stellar pro-day workout over the weekend, and some are predicting he could crack the top 10.
17 CB Tye Hill Clemson Sr. 5-10 184
The Vikings have the ammo to move up in the first round in pursuit of a franchise quarterback like Cutler, maybe to No. 10 Arizona. But if they stay put, getting depth for their secondary, where they lost third cornerback Brian Williams in free agency, is the logical choice.
18 S Donte Whitner Ohio State Jr. 5-10 205
Whitner is a newcomer to our board, but the Buckeyes junior has risen on the strength of a pair of blazing 40s (4.37 and 4.39) during Ohio State's pro day. The Cowboys already got their No. 1 receiver in Terrell Owens and just missed out on their offensive tackle of choice (USC's Justice).
19 WR Santonio Holmes Ohio State Jr. 5-11 190
You have to think general manager A.J. Smith wants to give quarterback Philip Rivers the best possible chance to succeed, given that Smith has staked his reputation on him and sent Drew Brees packing. Getting Rivers another receiving target should be Smith's top priority.
20 CB Johnathan Joseph South Carolina Sr. 5-11 187
In a first round that is suddenly silly with defensive backs, the Chiefs should have their choice between Joseph, Ohio State's Ashton Youboty and Florida State's Antonio Cromartie. If there's one constant in the NFL, it's that K.C. never has enough pass defense.
21 LB Chad Greenway Iowa Sr. 6-4 244
The Patriots have options galore. They could take the tumbling LenDale White or Minnesota's Laurence Maroney as the heir apparent to Corey Dillon. They could reach a bit for Miami's Sinorice Moss, whose versatility as a receiver/return man would come in handy. But Greenway or Ohio State LB Bobby Carpenter fill the biggest need.
22 WR Sinorice Moss Miami Sr. 5-8 185
Having landed their running back at No. 15 in DeAngelo Williams, the Broncos are free to use their second No. 1 pick on a receiver. If Denver thinks defensive end, Penn State's Tamba Hali, Boston College's Mathias Kiwanuka or FSU's Kamerion Wimbley could get the nod.
23 CB Antonio Cromartie Florida State Jr. 6-2 210
Cromartie remains a question mark on some boards, because he missed all of 2005 with a knee injury. But he ran two 40s in the 4.3 range, jumped 42 inches vertically and has shown enough potential to find his way into this section of the first round.
24 TE Marcedes Lewis UCLA Sr. 6-6 255
The Sam Adams signing addressed the Bengals' need at defensive tackle, at least in the short term. And safety got some help when Dexter Jackson was acquired. That leaves the Bengals in good shape to pick between tight ends Lewis and Georgia's Leonard Pope.
25 LB Bobby Carpenter Ohio State Sr. 6-3 255
Depending on what New York does in the LaVar Arrington bidding, linebacker might slide a bit further down the need list. But Carpenter is head coach Tom Coughlin's type of solid, dependable player, and the Giants always love those Big Ten prospects.
26 TE Leonard Pope Georgia Jr. 6-7 258
With no more receivers first-round worthy, the Bears wisely address their need at tight end. If the Bengals go Pope, the Bears will nab Lewis, and vice versa. USC tight end Dominique Byrd is another possibility.
27 RB Laurence Maroney Minnesota Jr. 5-11 205
Don't make the mistake of assuming that by re-signing DeShaun Foster the Panthers are out of the running for a first-round running back. Foster's injury history demands the position receive more attention. Maroney looks like a steal this low in the first round.
28 DE Tamba Hali Penn State Sr. 6-3 267
On our board, the Jaguars have their pick of three pretty good defensive end prospects: Hali, who has tumbled some of late, Florida State's Kamerion Wimbley, whose stock is rising, and Boston College's Mathias Kiwanuka, who has held fairly steady as a bottom-third first-round selection. Hali's probably the safest of the three.
29 RB LenDale White USC Jr. 6-2 235
White may not fall this far, but after showing up at the Trojans' pro day at a squishy 244 pounds, not running and doing only 15 reps, there's nobody who has him cracking the top 20 about now. But at No. 29, he'd be worth taking to play in tandem with the aging Curtis Martin.
30 RB Joseph Addai LSU Sr. 5-11 214
With the big four running backs all gone, the Colts might be looking at the somewhat surprising Addai as a replacement for Edgerrin James. Addai could sneak into the bottom of the first round based on his impressive 40 times, in the 4.4 range, at the combine.
31 DE Kamerion Wimbley Florida State Sr. 6-4 250
Wimbley or Boston College's Mathias Kiwanuka could be the situational pass rusher the Seahawks need. Both players might need some time to develop into full-time starters but have enough potential to justify a late-first-round pick. Georgia guard Max Jean-Gilles is a possible replacement for Steve Huchinson.
32 C Nick Mangold Ohio State Sr. 6-4 300
With Antwaan Randle El lost in free agency as expected, the Steelers would like an impact receiver. But they won't reach for one in this slot if the top three prospects (Jackson, Holmes and Moss) are all gone. Give them Mangold, because veteran center Jeff Hartings will be 34 in September.
There is certainly a chance the Eagles could take Jackson.
I can't see them wasting a #1 on a WR that isn't a sure Pro Bowl caliber guy.
Quote from: The Waco Kid on April 05, 2006, 08:55:25 PM
I can't see them wasting a #1 on a WR that isn't a sure Pro Bowl caliber guy.
Translation: You would rather they traded their #2 for Javon Walker and drafted someone else in the 1st round.
Quote from: The Waco Kid on April 05, 2006, 08:55:25 PM
I can't see them wasting a #1 on a WR that isn't a sure Pro Bowl caliber guy.
No WR taken in the first round is a surefire Pro Bowl player.
anyone see the giants 'on the clock' segment on sportscenter this morning....they were talking about hwo they need help at the tackle position and kiper said matter of factly well if they want one then winston justice will be there...i didnt think there was a chance in hell he drops that far
I don't follow what Banks is trying to say. Does he really believe we'd want to draft our #1 WR in the middle of round 1? That would be an improvement over what we have?
If we "must have a #1" this year, the draft ain't the place to find it.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 08:01:11 AM
anyone see the giants 'on the clock' segment on sportscenter this morning....they were talking about hwo they need help at the tackle position and kiper said matter of factly well if they want one then winston justice will be there...i didnt think there was a chance in hell he drops that far
That makes no sense, because I think the Cowboys would draft Justice with teh quickness, if no one else before.
Kiper on Mike and Mike this morning just said after the USC pro-day that there is no way Winston Justice falls past Philadelphia. He said if he is there at fourteen it's a lock. I'd take it.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 06, 2006, 08:35:42 AM
Kiper on Mike and Mike this morning just said after the USC pro-day that there is no way Winston Justice falls past Philadelphia. He said if he is there at fourteen it's a lock. I'd take it.
That might be a knockout blow to Calvin Armstrong's long-term hopes and dreams of NFL glory.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 06, 2006, 08:39:17 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 06, 2006, 08:35:42 AM
Kiper on Mike and Mike this morning just said after the USC pro-day that there is no way Winston Justice falls past Philadelphia. He said if he is there at fourteen it's a lock. I'd take it.
That might be a knockout blow to Calvin Armstrong's long-term hopes and dreams of NFL glory.
He'll find glory in being a long snapper once Bartrum retires. That, or being the dumbest looking backup lineman to ever grace the NFL's benches.
Kiper on Mike and Mike this morning just said after the USC pro-day that there is no way Winston Justice falls past Philadelphia. He said if he is there at fourteen it's a lock. I'd take it.
kiper must have hit the wall and is losing it...if anyone has a chance watch sportcenter this morning where he says justice will be there at 25
i really want a wr and moss in particular but id take justice even tho the pick would bore the hell out of me
then i want rocky mcintosh even tho i cant imagine him falling to the eagles second pick
There is basically zero chance that the Eagles will end up drafting Sinorice Moss.
I'd love for the to get Rocky. That dude could come in and play right away, blow Dhani out of the water.
Kiper is slowly going retarded, I saw on Sportscenter when he made the comment about Justice going to the Giants, but just now he was saying the Cardinals might take a shot at him now.......I take everything these talking heads say with a ten pound bag of salt. He changes his mind every time he opens his suckhole.
Here's a shocker... Ryan Moats sees the need for a "big back" as overblown:
QuoteBIG BACK DILEMMA
I remember how hard I was working last year to train for all of my workouts. I trained all the way up until two days before the Combine in Indianapolis.
There I ran a 4.4 40-yard dash. I had 19 reps in the bench press. I had a good mark in the vertical jump. Against the other running backs, I was in the top four in every category. However, in the end it didn't make a difference in the draft. I was drafted, but I had hoped that if I had a good performance at the Combine that I would move up into the second round. I knew that I would go in the third round whether I had a good performance in Indianapolis or not.
Now, I'm not complaining. I'm happy to be where I am at.
I worked out at the Combine, but every year there are more and more guys who pass on working out. I can tell you the truth about it. Guys who don't work out fall into one of two categories. Either they are really cocky, they think they are so special and too good or they are scared because they know they will run a bad time. I can understand if you are hurt and have a bad injury, but there are a lot of great players in college who will never get a chance to go to the Combine or have a chance to run for scouts.
I feel that it's disrespectful to those players when guys don't workout at the Combine or at their pro day.
After the Combine, there was a pro day at Louisiana Tech. I worked out for the scouts there as well. I did everything I could to possibly better my standing in the draft. Some guys play the game where they will go to the Combine only to tell the teams that he'll only work out at his pro day. If you can afford to do that, that's fine and dandy. That's a luxury if you are able to say, 'Come and see me work out at my pro day.' Some people only have one shot and that's at the Combine. If I told people that I was only working out at my pro day, how many people would have come to see me? Not many because I wasn't a superstar.
I feel for the people who don't have the luxury of getting a chance to workout for scouts because there are a lot deserving people who don't have the chance these highlight people get.
The Eagles have the 14th pick in this year's draft and I know there are people who want us to take a running back. More specifically, a big back. Honestly, I think the idea of a big back is stupid. People have a preference. Some people may like a big back and some people might not. I always had the same problem in college where people wanted a big back in front of me. Even though I would was successful on the field, people wanted the big back because they are amazed with the idea of a big back for some reason.
I keep telling people that if you look at the history of football, who are your premier backs? Barry Sanders, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Priest Holmes. People will call them scatbacks, but what is a scatback? That creates a perception that these are backs that run away from people, they juke people out all the time and will never put a shouder into you. They lack a punch. They don't use that term to describe LaDainian Tomlinson and he has the same exact build as the other backs I've mentioned.
I don't know what a scatback is. All I know is a running back is a running back. We all do it in a different way to make it happen.
You may think smaller running backs are more prone to injury. That depends on how you run. You have to pick and choose your battles. If you pick and choose your battles the right way, if you use your ability to gain an upper hand you will decrease your risk of injury. That is something a running back learns over the course of his career. You learn how to manipulate different situations.
Reggie Bush looks like he'll be the No. 1 pick this year. He's super fast and a good player but with guys like him I can never tell how he's going to be in the NFL. He went to one of those big schools where everyone around you is good. My definition of a running back is, 'What can you make happen when everything goes wrong?' I know he has a lot of athletic ability because you can't sit back there and walk through a hole. I'm anxious to see what he's going to do.
I was just about to post that, had just copied it from the Birds website.
I gotta admit, I agree with the dude on a lot of his points. He is still borderline wetahted though.
There is basically zero chance that the Eagles will end up drafting Sinorice Moss.
i dont think they are taking a wr period but if they take chad jackson at 14 when they could trade back get extra picks and get a better receiver in moss i will lose it...
if justice and bunkley are gone at 14 tho dont they almost have to trade back or take a wr
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 09:08:01 AM
There is basically zero chance that the Eagles will end up drafting Sinorice Moss.
i dont think they are taking a wr period but if they take chad jackson at 14 when they could trade back get extra picks and get a better receiver in moss i will lose it...
if justice and bunkley are gone at 14 tho dont they almost have to trade back or take a wr
Your assuming Moss will be a better pro, if you go by College production Jackson is a much better receiver. I like Moss but he is not the best receiver out there I think Both Holmes and Jackson are better, you may even be able to throw Maurice Stovall ahead of him just because he has a much higher ceiling. If Moss had more experience as a KR/PR I would be much higher on him.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 06, 2006, 09:29:21 AM
you may even be able to throw Maurice Stovall ahead of him just because he has a much higher ceiling
You better put your flame suit on.
Moats needs to shut his mouth and realize that he is Brian Westbrook Lite, and is destined to get slinters in his ass until Westbrook goes down again.
Your assuming Moss will be a better pro, if you go by College production Jackson is a much better receiver. I like Moss but he is not the best receiver out there I think Both Holmes and Jackson are better, you may even be able to throw Maurice Stovall ahead of him just because he has a much higher ceiling. If Moss had more experience as a KR/PR I would be much higher on him.
moss is easily the best player of them all...straight up ballin playmaker who will/can also be a probowl return man...hes exactly the kind of player the eagles have needed for about ever
oh and get the eff outta here with that maurice stovall garbage
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 06, 2006, 09:34:24 AM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 06, 2006, 09:29:21 AM
you may even be able to throw Maurice Stovall ahead of him just because he has a much higher ceiling
You better put your flame suit on.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 09:43:26 AM
oh and get the eff outta here with that maurice stovall garbage
I am a seer.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 09:43:26 AM
moss is easily the best player of them all...straight up ballin playmaker who will/can also be a probowl return man...hes exactly the kind of player the eagles have needed for about ever
link?
i got your link swingin
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 09:43:26 AM
Your assuming Moss will be a better pro, if you go by College production Jackson is a much better receiver. I like Moss but he is not the best receiver out there I think Both Holmes and Jackson are better, you may even be able to throw Maurice Stovall ahead of him just because he has a much higher ceiling. If Moss had more experience as a KR/PR I would be much higher on him.
moss is easily the best player of them all...straight up ballin playmaker who will/can also be a probowl return man...hes exactly the kind of player the eagles have needed for about ever
oh and get the eff outta here with that maurice stovall garbage
He will be a great returnman based on what? That his brother is? These small receivers are popular right now, but I still would rather have a guy that has some size so he can be a better red zone threat.
We have guys with size... Billy McMullen and Darnerian McCants. Is Stovall going to be better than they are?
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 06, 2006, 10:06:29 AM
Is Stovall going to be better than they are?
he couldnt be any worse.
He will be a great returnman based on what? That his brother is? These small receivers are popular right now, but I still would rather have a guy that has some size so he can be a better red zone threat.
he returned kicks at miami and he has unreal skills that fit the position perfectly
id rather have a guy that can score from 50 out than a red zone guy....they are much more rare...that size garbage in the red zone is overrated...
plus the eagles spread it out down there and look for multiple options...they rarely if ever employ the loft fade route...in fact theyd rather throw it to thomason in the back of the end zone or to westbrook out of the backfield before they go to a wr
for people who wanted randel el...moss would be randel el on crack...kick returns...reverses....screens...hitches...all kinds of plays that could go a long way in a short amount of time
yes youre taking a chance on his size...but his upside is more than worth it
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 10:17:12 AM
He will be a great returnman based on what? That his brother is? These small receivers are popular right now, but I still would rather have a guy that has some size so he can be a better red zone threat.
he returned kicks at miami and he has unreal skills that fit the position perfectly
id rather have a guy that can score from 50 out than a red zone guy....they are much more rare...that size garbage in the red zone is overrated...
plus the eagles spread it out down there and look for multiple options...they rarely if ever employ the loft fade route...in fact theyd rather throw it to thomason in the back of the end zone or to westbrook out of the backfield before they go to a wr
for people who wanted randel el...moss would be randel el on crack...kick returns...reverses....screens...hitches...all kinds of plays that could go a long way in a short amount of time
yes youre taking a chance on his size...but his upside is more than worth it
Yeah, pfft, well maybe, but can he throw. Hmm, huh?! I didn't think so.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 06, 2006, 10:17:12 AM
He will be a great returnman based on what? That his brother is? These small receivers are popular right now, but I still would rather have a guy that has some size so he can be a better red zone threat.
he returned kicks at miami and he has unreal skills that fit the position perfectly
id rather have a guy that can score from 50 out than a red zone guy....they are much more rare...that size garbage in the red zone is overrated...
plus the eagles spread it out down there and look for multiple options...they rarely if ever employ the loft fade route...in fact theyd rather throw it to thomason in the back of the end zone or to westbrook out of the backfield before they go to a wr
for people who wanted randel el...moss would be randel el on crack...kick returns...reverses....screens...hitches...all kinds of plays that could go a long way in a short amount of time
yes youre taking a chance on his size...but his upside is more than worth it
He hardly ever was a return man at Miami, that is one of the big knocks on him coming out he doesn't have much experience doing it. They had a guy down there you may have heard named Devin Hester?
As far as Stovall he isn't the only guy with size that I was talking about I was also referring to Jackson. It is much harder to find a small receiver that makes a good pro than it is with a player that has some size.
It is much harder to find a small receiver that makes a good pro than it is with a player that has some size.
and its almost impossible to find athletic ability like sincorce moss has...where as there are tons of 6-1 wr's
moss returned kicks before hester...hester was originally supposed to be a big time wr there...they realized hester couldnt play wr and moss could...and they switched roles
It is not impossible to find an athlet with the ability of moss. Since Chad Jackson is Faster and just as if not more athletic then Moss. Had a better college carrer with less to work with and not to metion that he is 6'1'' and 215. With all that. And doesnt resemble poppa smurf! Moss is over rated cause of his bloodline. He is no better than a late 2nd round pic. And in my opinion that is a stretch. But some one always streches just pray its not the BIRDS!
Here is a mock I did on 3 - 14- 06
2006 NFL Mock Draft
1. Houston Texans – Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New York Jets (Trade with NO)– Matt Leinart – QB, USC
3. Tennessee Titians – Vince Young, QB, Texas
4. New Orleans Saints (Trade with Jets)– DaBrickashaw Ferguson, T, Virginia
5. Green Bay Packers – Mario Williams, DE, NCST
6. Oakland Raiders – Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
7. San Francisco 49ers – DeAngelo Williams, RB, Mephis
8. Buffalo Bills – A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio St.
9. Detroit Lions – Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
10. Arizona Cardinals – Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
11. St. Louis Rams – Haloti Nagata, DT, Oregon
12. Cleveland Browns – Michael Huff, S, Texas
13. Baltimore Ravens – Brodrick Bunkley, DT, FSU
14. Philadelphia Eagles – Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
15. Atlanta Falcons – Winston Justice, T, USC
16. Miami Dolphins – Ty Hill, CB, Clemson
17. Minnesota Vikings – Darnell Bing, S, USC
18. Dallas Cowboys – Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa
19. San Diego Chargers – Tamba Hali, DE, Penn St.
20. Kansas City Chiefs – Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio St.
21. New England Patriots – LenDale White, RB, USC
22. Denver Broncos from the Washington taterskins – Lenord Pope, TE, Georgia
23. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Manny Lawson, DE/LB, NCST
24. Cincinnati Bengals – Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, BC
25. New York Giants – Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
26. Chicago Bears – Mercedes Lewis, TE, UCLA
27. Carolina Panthers – Marcus McNeil, T, Auburn
28. Jacksonville Jaguars – DeMeco Ryans, LB, Alabama
29. Denver Broncos – Jason Allen, CB/S, Tennessee
30. Indianapolis Colts – Lawrence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
31. Seattle Seahawks – Antonio Cromartie, CB, FSU
32. Pittsburgh Steelers – Sinorece Moss, WR, Miami
You might want to do a new one with at least the correct teams picking in the correct spot. (Jon Abraham ring a bell?)
Ya i get that. I just put up the last one i did. I will post a new one most likley tommorrow.
move up Vernon Davis 3-5 spots...no question. True impact player out of the gates..cant pass on him.
The Eagles board is doing an interactive draft where the fans vote on who will be picked where. Today was the Eagles pick and it was Chad Jackson.
QuoteCHAD JACKSON IS YOUR MAN!
April 10, 2006
By CHRIS McPHERSON
In a tight three-man race, you - the fans - decided that the Eagles should select Florida wide receiver Chad Jackson with the No. 14 overall selection in the 2006 NFL Draft.
Jackson was followed up by USC running back LenDale White and Florida State linebacker Ernie Sims. Jackson won grabbing 23 percent of the vote, and the difference between Jackson and Sims was just over 200 votes.
The University of Florida product entered the NFL Draft off the heels of a junior season in which he caught 88 passes for nine touchdowns. He is expected to be a big-play receiver in the NFL, even though his yards per catch last season (10.2) wasn't as high as his previous season (22.3).
It was widely regarded before the Scouting Combine in February that Jackson would probably be the second receiver taken in the draft after Ohio State's Santonio Holmes, who was a distant fourth in the Interactive Draft. But after posting a 4.32 40-yard dash at the Combine and looking impressive in the workouts, he could be the first receiver taken.
Could he go to the Eagles at No. 14? There is a chance. Jackson would be the first wide receiver taken with the team's No. 1 pick since Freddie Mitchell in 2001.
The mock drafts have the Eagles looking at either a receiver, defensive tackle, offensive tackle, running back or linebacker with the No. 14 pick. It's interesting to wonder what the fans' choice would have been if either Haloti Ngata or Brodrick Bunkley were available at defensive tackle or if Winston Justice was available at offensive tackle.
With those players gone, there were three wide receivers, two running backs, three linebackers, a defensive tackle and an offensive tackle voted in the top 10 of the Eagles' pick in the Interactive Draft.
Now that the fans have spoken, it will be interesting to see what the Eagles will really do on April 29.
i will head butt the tv if they take jackson over moss
Through pick 14 it goes like this:
1. Texans - Reggie Bush
2. Saints - DBrickshaw Ferguson
3. Titans - Matt Leinert
4. Jets - Mario Williams
5. Packers - AJ Hawk
6. Niners - Vernon davis
7. raiders - Vince Young
8. Bills - Haloti Ngata
9. Lions - Michael Huff
10. Cardinals - Jat Cutler
11. Rams - Tamba Hali
12. Browns - Broderick Bunkley
13. ravens - Winston Justice
14. Eagles - Chad Jackson
I think the only reason Hali goes so high is because there are so many penn stater eagles fans voting.
Quote from: phattymatty on April 10, 2006, 01:06:48 PM
Through pick 14 it goes like this:
blah
I think the only reason Hali goes so high is because there are so many penn stater eagles fans voting.
I was following that interactive draft along and voting occasionally. I stopped paying attention when Hali went to the Rams, but I still voted for the Birds. With Ngata and Bunkley gone, I voted for Gabe Watson.
By the way, if you were dead set on taking a receiver at 14, and Jackson, Holmes, and Moss were all available, you take Jackson no questions. Doing otherwise would be plain retarded. That said, I hope the birds address WR in round two, and if Moss was there and was taken, I'd be stoked.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 10, 2006, 01:05:18 PM
i will head butt the tv if they take jackson over moss
I hope you have a helmet. :D
id also add that they can get an extra pick or two and get moss
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 10, 2006, 01:42:22 PM
id also add that they can get an extra pick or two and get moss
I'd be all for that
yeah im not necessarily advocating going all out for moss at 14...but if everyone is gone then id trade down and get him...and if youre gonna take a wr there i go with moss over holmes or jackson
2006 NFL Mock Draft
1. Houston Texans – Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New Orleans Saints – Mario Williams, DE, NCST
3. Tennessee Titians – Matt Leinart – QB, USC
4. New York Jets - DaBrickashaw Ferguson, T, Virginia
5. Green Bay Packers – A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio St.
6. Oakland Raiders – Vince Young, QB, Texas
7. San Francisco 49ers – DeAngelo Williams, RB, Mephis
8. Buffalo Bills – Winston Justice, T, USC
9. Detroit Lions – Michael Huff, S, Texas
10. Arizona Cardinals – Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
11. St. Louis Rams – Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
12. Cleveland Browns – Haloti Nagata, DT, Oregon
13. Baltimore Ravens – Brodrick Bunkley, DT, FSU
14. Philadelphia Eagles – Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
15. Denver Broncos – Manny Lawson, DE, NCST
16. Miami Dolphins –Ty Hill, CB, Clemson
17. Minnesota Vikings – Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
18. Dallas Cowboys – Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa
19. San Diego Chargers – Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio St.
20. Kansas City Chiefs – Jason Allen, CB/S, Tennessee
21. New England Patriots – LenDale White, RB, USC
22. Denver Broncos from the Washington taterskins – Lenord Pope, TE, Georgia
23. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Karmerion Wimbley, DE, FSU
24. Cincinnati Bengals – Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, BC
25. New York Giants – Ernie Simms, LB, FSU
26. Chicago Bears – Mercedes Lewis, TE, UCLA
27. Carolina Panthers – Marcus McNeil, T, Auburn
28. Jacksonville Jaguars – Darnell Bing, S, USC
29. New York Jets – Tamba Hali, DE, PSU
30. Indianapolis Colts – Lawrence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
31. Seattle Seahawks – Antonio Cromartie, CB, FSU
32. Pittsburgh Steelers – Sinorece Moss, WR, Miami
Chad Jackson Hands down is the best most explosive durable recevier in this class. Moss is an over rated prospect because of his bloodline. You are not getting Santan Moss with that pick your getting a smaller less durable slower version with Sinorece!
Hoo boy. It looks like Chad Jackson's nuts are surviving some major drag from excessive swingage.
Jackson is the player du jour. First it was Greenway and Kiwanuka... then Lendale White... Then Bunkley... now Jackson.
Remember when we were worried that Kiwanuka might not be available at #14? Good times, good times.
seems like a lifetime ago.
Quote from: MURP on April 10, 2006, 02:51:54 PM
seems like a lifetime ago.
It won't be so funny when the Eagles take him at #14 on April 29.
is that your final answer?
I hope not. I'm going with Manny Lawson for personal flair... but really, I think the Eagles are most likely to take Justice, Ngata, Bunkley, Huff, or even Jimmy Williams, should he fall. If none of those guys happen to be on the board at #14, it's open season and anything can happen.
Moss is an over rated prospect because of his bloodline.
actually hes not overrated at all...hes the most explosive offensive player in the draft this year not named reggie bush who is somewhat of a risk cause of his size...hes never gonna be a number one guy as there are some catches he just cant make but he has gamebreaking ability that doesnt come around that often...hes a much more explosive randel el...a guy that you find a way to get the ball to in open space and have him make plays whether it be on a reverse a short pass in the flat or down field on a go route...he also has the potential to be a pro bowl punt or kick returner
in short hes the kind of player the eagles need...the offense would automatically become much harder to defend with him out there
I have to admit its my personal Favrotie is Chad Jackson. I think thats who they should take. But who I think they would take. Probably really want Winston Justice or one of the DT's Brodrick Bunkley or Haloti Nagata. Im sure they would love Huff. But all those players should be gone. Which unless they move up who is left. Jimmy Williams is great value were they are at. I really dont see them going DE in the 1st with the Addition of Howard. I dont think they believe in Drafting LB's in the first. Even though if they do I think it would be Greenway over Simms.
So in short they go with best avalible and unless they trade up or down. Down being more likely and best avalible is Chad Jackson, Jimmy Williams or Chad Greenway.
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 10, 2006, 03:11:01 PM
I have to admit its my personal Favrotie is Chad Jackson.
You don't say!
jimmy williams is matt ware II and greenway blows
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 10, 2006, 03:09:31 PM
Moss is an over rated prospect because of his bloodline.
actually hes not overrated at all...hes the most explosive offensive player in the draft this year not named reggie bush who is somewhat of a risk cause of his size...hes never gonna be a number one guy as there are some catches he just cant make but he has gamebreaking ability that doesnt come around that often...hes a much more explosive randel el...a guy that you find a way to get the ball to in open space and have him make plays whether it be on a reverse a short pass in the flat or down field on a go route...he also has the potential to be a pro bowl punt or kick returner
in short hes the kind of player the eagles need...the offense would automatically become much harder to defend with him out there
Oh, oh, I know! Or we could just take Santonio Holmes, who's a better Sinorice Moss and is actually worth a 1st rounder.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 10, 2006, 03:14:35 PM
jimmy williams is matt ware II and greenway blows
I disagree with Williams being a Matt Ware II, up until recently Williams was considered a top 10 pick. Everytime I saw the dude play he was making plays I think he is going to be a player and if the Eagles got him I would be fairly happy if they got him. The only thing is DB doesn't seem like a major need for this team.
The player I would most like to see them take is Laurence Maroney....but I know that is not likely to happen.
Man, Pat Kirwan on Sirius was jockeying Bert Sims hard today, saying he is off the charts as far as the ratings for drafting players go. He was saying something of the point system they judge on being at 70 for the average prospects and he was at a 76 based on his vertical (41 inch--incredible for his height), 40 time and other drills. Rated him a superior athlete.
The best I heard of him, expecially from Kirwan who holds a ton of knowledge on these prospects. I know alot of mocks had the Eagles taking him, but its a shame we dont pay LB's in the 1st like that. Could be a stud..
(http://www.stat.sfu.ca/~lockhart/twins/Bert_and_Ernie.jpg)
Bert... or Ernie? Methinks someone has Sesame Street on the brain.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 10, 2006, 06:32:21 PM
(http://www.stat.sfu.ca/~lockhart/twins/Bert_and_Ernie.jpg)
Bert... or Ernie? Methinks someone has Sesame Street on the brain.
Glad you picked it up Patt, knew it wouldnt slip past ya :yay
Isn't Ernie Sims kind of small anyway? It would seem to make more sense just to call him Ernie.
Yeah, he's 5'11 231.
why stop there? I like Ern
Yes, but do you like Big Ern McCraken?
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 10, 2006, 06:40:16 PM
Yes, but do you like Big Ern McCraken?
I prefer Vanessa Angel.
Oh, oh, I know! Or we could just take Santonio Holmes, who's a better Sinorice Moss and is actually worth a 1st rounder.
because i dont believe that holmes is better than moss...plus if you can find a suitor you can trade down and get moss picking up extra picks
Decent discussion material on Rivals.com posted April 3. They still have the Birds going with Holmes over Jackson if they take a WR in the first.....
Quote
Philadelphia Eagles (6-10 in 2005)
Head Coach: Andy Reid (Eighth Year)
Key needs:
1. Wide receiver 2. Linebacker 3. Defensive tackle 4. Running back 5. Offensive lineman
1. Wide receiver: This problem continues to be an annual trouble area despite the fine addition of Jabar Gaffney. Releasing veteran Terrell Owens was addition by subtraction, but leaves the receiving corps with little big-play potential. The Eagles love both Santonio Holmes and Chad Jackson and have them high on their list in the middle of the first round. In an average receiver class, the best value on the board will be in the early rounds. The talent level drops dramatically, and they may consider moving up in the second or third rounds for receivers like Demetirus Williams, Maurice Stovall and Todd Watkins.
2. Linebacker: The Eagles have linebacker Jeremiah Trotter on the inside, with marginal talent on the outside in Dhani Jones and Keith Adams. They also lack depth with only last year's No. 2 pick Matt McCoy in the wings. They like DeMeco Ryans and Ernie Sims very much and will consider them with the 14th overall selection. They could address this area early and have linebacker like Jon Alston and Thomas Howard on their list for the second round.
3. Defensive Tackle: They lost Corey Simon last year and the remaining veterans took a step back. Mike Patterson, last year's top pick, played well in spurts but he might be the start of a completely new inside tandem. In a fairly deep class at this position, the best value on the board with their top three picks may be DT Rodrique Wright, John McCargo and Orien Harris in the middle of the first day. These are defenders with the versatility to fill a few roles in different schemes.
4. Running back: The Eagles have little depth at this position behind talented Brian Westbrook and last year's rookie Ryan Moats. Both the same type of runners. Neither is physically built for the feature role and the running game took a huge step back last fall. They need a quality backup with starting potential, and should have a chance at any back other than Reggie Bush. Though it is not their highest need, they have to look at either DeAngelo Williams or LenDale White in the first round. Most likely they will add a middle round prospect and like runners Wali Lundy and Cedric Humes on the second day.
5. Offensive lineman: The Eagles re-signed tackle Jon Runyan this offseason but left tackle Tra Thomas is coming off back surgery. They have some young talent behind them but still will be looking to upgrade this unit, though probably more on the interior and on the second day of the draft.
Insiders' Insights: The Eagles were aggressive in recent drafts, moving up for desired players like Jerome McDougle and Shawn Andrews. They are in the best position in the draft in a while and hope to parlay the three top picks into instant production. Some of their biggest needs are at the deepest areas of the draft – linebacker and defensive tackle. Though wide receiver remains their top priority, it offers only an average class overall. They will focus on a receiver in the top two rounds with Santonio Holmes their top rated prospect and Chad Jackson their second choice. They may be shocked to find a few highly regarded linebackers on the board like DeMeco Ryans and Ernie Sims. Either would be difficult to pass on, except if Holmes is available. Expect a linebacker and receiver on the first day.
First-round pick: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State. He gives McNabb the much-needed deep threat.
Alternate pick: DeMeco Ryans, LB, Alabama. Playmaker could fit on either side in this scheme.
That analysis sums up how I feel, they probably aren't going to find a quality receiver outside of round 1 but they can definately find quality LB, RB, OL, and DL outside round 1. That being said they should definately get Ngata or Justice if they have the opportunity. I am not as high on Bunkley as others are.
phattymatty is my p\//\/n4r.
2 pages late chief. get with it.
You win.
I still think the Eagles take Wimbley or Lawson, because I stick by all my opinions, no matter how asinine.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 01:41:24 PM
The PE.com fan vote mock went with Chad Jackson (slightly over Ernie Sims) at #14 (http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/homeNewsDetail.jsp?id=46843)
I love my fellow Eagles fans.
Everybody already knows that retard it was posted yesterday, seriously though who do you think they take if Bunkley, Ngata, and Justice are all gone? I voted for Jackson because I think that is who they would take (I would be very happy with that pick). I think they should take Laurence Maroney because to me he is the best player available at that point. I just don't see them taking an LB in the first round though both Sims and Ryans would be great additions (my preference would be for Ryans).
I am def. in agreement with Jackson at that pick. I like Maroney. But I dont see RB that early with the way the Birds run things he is only looking at 8 carries a game. Not enough for a first round pick. You would get better value at adding a RB in Rounds 4 thourgh 5 like a Gerald Riggs Jr., Cedric Humes, Wali Lundy or Michael Bell. And if you project Michael Robinson to RB also a good fit. And I think we need to add a linebacker or two for depth purposes but dont want to see one drafted high by the birds. First they have a horrible track record drafting LB's. And second I think they could add another LB after the June 1 cuts. A vet that can step right in.
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 11, 2006, 02:51:00 PM
I am def. in agreement with Jackson at that pick.
you don't say, ha!
eagles history of linebacker picks scare you but you want them taking a wr instead?....not to mention the history of florida wr's....
you really do love jackson dont you
Linebacker picks do scare me on this team cause the last good one taken by them was J. Trotter by Ray Rhodes. At least the Birds have had some success at WR. T. Pinkston, Reg. Brown. Granted they havent been great. And Florida doesnt run the system anymore that those past rec. came from. So I think that point is mute.
And yes I do believe Jackson is a very good rec. He is the fastest straight line in the draft. he has better numbers in the 3 cone and short and long shuttle than any other rec. in this class and his vert is 38.5 which is 2nd in this class to your boy moss with 41. But a huge hieght diff. between the two.
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 11, 2006, 02:51:00 PM
I am def. in agreement with Jackson at that pick. I like Maroney. But I dont see RB that early with the way the Birds run things he is only looking at 8 carries a game. Not enough for a first round pick. You would get better value at adding a RB in Rounds 4 thourgh 5 like a Gerald Riggs Jr., Cedric Humes, Wali Lundy or Michael Bell. And if you project Michael Robinson to RB also a good fit. And I think we need to add a linebacker or two for depth purposes but dont want to see one drafted high by the birds. First they have a horrible track record drafting LB's. And second I think they could add another LB after the June 1 cuts. A vet that can step right in.
...and the reasons are?
I believe I stated that a back getting 8 carries a game shouldnt be a 1st round pick. Horrible value. Escpecially a guy that is only gonna be on the field for a specific package. Gerald Riggs Jr., Cedric Humes, Wali Lundy or Michael Bell are all bigger backs with speed and goaline ability. Say in the Correll Buckhalter mold without the injuyr problems.
I sadly must agree with xtacy here. I think there are a good amount of mid-round RB's that can be effective.
I'd really like them to draft a kid that can play some fullback, though. Parry sucks ass.
Im still pissed about Parry getting his pathetic litte ass getting spanked around durning the superbowl!!
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 11, 2006, 03:56:47 PM
Im still pissed about Parry getting his pathetic litte ass getting spanked around durning the superbowl!!
To play devil's advocate here, all the Eagles linemen (on both sides of the ball), all their running backs, Donovan, and the defensive backs ALL got their asses spanked around in the Super Bowl. I still don't know how they actually came within 3 points in the final score. The Pats should have won that game by at least 2 touches.
O I know its a whole team effortf! But In my memory all I see is him falling on his back almost every play.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 03:47:01 PM
I sadly must agree with xtacy here. I think there are a good amount of mid-round RB's that can be effective.
I'd really like them to draft a kid that can play some fullback, though. Parry sucks ass.
I understand what both of you are saying all I am saying is that is who I like. I know there is less than a 5% chance they take an RB in the first round unless AR totally changes his offensive philosophy. That is also why I said I think they will take Chad Jackson.
The only reason I could see them going WR in the first is the reason many have already mentioned... because the WR crop is thin, and players will start to go too early to teams that are looking for young WR's.
I just can't get pumped about it, because I don't think any rookie WR will have an impact in 2006.
i think moss could make plays in this offense right away...not only catching but running the ball
and the minute his names called he becomes the starting punt returner...hell why not kr as well
Do you think Reggie Brown made an imact last year?
By the way Denver who holds the pick after ours. Has brought in Chad Jackson today.
I would not be opposed to trading down for Sinorice Moss. I think there's a lot of justified hype to go with the unjustified, and he would add a new dimension to the team. However, it would be a waste to take him at #14.
Do you think Reggie Brown made an imact last year?
barely...he was invisible for most of his time on the field and really only ever did anything cause there was no one else left to catch balls by the end of the year...i like reggie and hes a solid guy but eagles fans vastly overrate him
that said...if the eagles dont add anymore wr's other than a first round pick why coudlnt that player contribute...the wr corps would be so hideous that if he couldnt help out he doesnt belong in the league
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 11, 2006, 03:56:47 PM
Im still pissed about Parry getting his pathetic litte ass getting spanked around durning the superbowl!!
Jesus.
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 11, 2006, 04:03:47 PM
O I know its a whole team effortf! But In my memory all I see is him falling on his back almost every play.
H.
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 11, 2006, 04:22:27 PM
Do you think Reggie Brown made an imact last year?
By the way Denver who holds the pick after ours. Has brought in Chad Jackson today.
Christ.
(http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/mspot/tbs/storygraphics/man.gif)
Quote from: xtacy1238 on April 11, 2006, 04:22:27 PM
Do you think Reggie Brown made an imact last year?
Do you think any impact he made was the exception, rather than the rule? How many Eagles rookie WR's have even sniffed what Brown did last year? His contribution is unlikely to be matched by another rookie WR for another 10 years or so. Just playing the odds with that one.
cmon....what kind of earth-shattering plays did Brown make for us for gods sake? When defenses play zone when your down by 14-21, you better get open and catch balls...any receiver could of done what he did if given the opportunity. We were just lucky enough to see it because Pinky got hurt. He's yet to impress and can not be marked a #1/savior until he does otherwise...
Brown made a lot of nice plays after the season was already a lost cause.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 04:42:08 PM
Brown made a lot of nice plays after the season was already a lost cause.
Week 1?
Yes, right about then.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 04:42:08 PM
Brown made a lot of nice plays after the season was already a lost cause.
he made nice plays in the taterskin game that had some playoff intensity to it against a team that needed a win, with little in the way of a pro NFL offense around him.
No doubt. I'm just saying that in general, you can't criticize him for the Eagles position in the division and the playoff hunt (or lack thereof). You can only see if he made plays, and he did make some nice ones, IMO... which is extremely rare for rookie WR's, especially under Andy Reid.
Quote from: jms246 on April 11, 2006, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 04:42:08 PM
Brown made a lot of nice plays after the season was already a lost cause.
he made nice plays in the taterskin game that had some playoff intensity to it against a team that needed a win, with little in the way of a pro NFL offense around him.
exactly my point....no Eagles offense = less defense for the opposing team = overcompensating the ball and unsuccessful risks = easier catches for Brown.
Conclusion: nothing spectacular
that's a long way to go for that conclusion.
i'm not saying that he's Jerry Rice Jr., but he can definitely be a player in the league and make an impact.
What Reggie Did was against teams in the playoff hunt and needed the win. And its nice to finally see a rec. When he has a chance to exploit a defense to take advantage of it. And he did all of this without another Reciever to strech the D. I think if we add this type of player or Pinkston can do this again. He will improve that much more.
The fact that he did contribute last year. Might be more to the exception to the rule. But does give hope that it can be done again.
In this case hope is a dangerous thing.
im not saying he cant have a great year this season but dont believe for a second its a foregone conclusion...starting as the #1 wr from day one is a huge difference from sneaking up on people as a rookie in games that mean next to nothing...
its not just how other teams see you but also the fact that there is absolutely no pressure on you to perform in that scenario
see greg lewis for an example of this...dook was a no one who nothing was expected of...he has a nice superbowl and all of a sudden hes the new #2 wr next to TO and all eagle fans are calling for his coming out party in 05...in reality he should be playing in canada
Quote from: jms246 on April 11, 2006, 04:56:47 PM
that's a long way to go for that conclusion.
i'm not saying that he's Jerry Rice Jr., but he can definitely be a player in the league and make an impact.
did he give you any reason to believe he can be a #1 receiver based on what he did?
This isn't about Reggie Brown's future. It's about the likelihood of an Eagles draft pick at WR helping out in year 1, let alone helping out ever. It's a very high-risk pick for the team historically.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 11, 2006, 04:59:35 PM
im not saying he cant have a great year this season but dont believe for a second its a foregone conclusion...starting as the #1 wr from day one is a huge difference from sneaking up on people as a rookie in games that mean next to nothing...
that's where i am right now.
Quote from: reese125 on April 11, 2006, 05:00:35 PM
Quote from: jms246 on April 11, 2006, 04:56:47 PM
that's a long way to go for that conclusion.
i'm not saying that he's Jerry Rice Jr., but he can definitely be a player in the league and make an impact.
did he give you any reason to believe he can be a #1 receiver based on what he did?
define #1...
#1 - TO, Steve Smith, Randy Moss - no
#1 - Darrell Jackson, Hines Ward, Keyshawn Johnson - yes
Quote from: jms246 on April 11, 2006, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 04:42:08 PM
Brown made a lot of nice plays after the season was already a lost cause.
he made nice plays in the taterskin game that had some playoff intensity to it against a team that needed a win, with little in the way of a pro NFL offense around him.
RJS being positive and almost nice... something is wrong.
Quote from: JailBird-man on April 11, 2006, 05:08:04 PM
RJS being positive and almost nice... something is wrong.
Yeah, something is wrong. It's not rjs. Derrrrrrrrrrr
Quote from: jms246 on April 11, 2006, 05:06:49 PM
Quote from: reese125 on April 11, 2006, 05:00:35 PM
Quote from: jms246 on April 11, 2006, 04:56:47 PM
that's a long way to go for that conclusion.
i'm not saying that he's Jerry Rice Jr., but he can definitely be a player in the league and make an impact.
did he give you any reason to believe he can be a #1 receiver based on what he did?
define #1...
#1 - TO, Steve Smith, Randy Moss - no
#1 - Darrell Jackson, Hines Ward, Keyshawn Johnson - yes
based on what.....Browns proven great hands and blocking ability? Got a long way to go declare him those players
that's why i answered you question of "can be" not "is now" with those guys.
Quote from: JailBird-man on April 11, 2006, 05:08:04 PM
Quote from: jms246 on April 11, 2006, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 04:42:08 PM
Brown made a lot of nice plays after the season was already a lost cause.
he made nice plays in the taterskin game that had some playoff intensity to it against a team that needed a win, with little in the way of a pro NFL offense around him.
RJS being positive and almost nice... something is wrong.
Yep... something's wrong. :-D
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 11, 2006, 05:11:45 PM
Quote from: JailBird-man on April 11, 2006, 05:08:04 PM
RJS being positive and almost nice... something is wrong.
Yeah, something is wrong. It's not rjs. Derrrrrrrrrrr
Sure it's not one of his happy personalities, the one on prozac...
all your base belong to us
I'm starting to get more excited about the possibility of trading up for either Huff or Ngata. Mostly because 2nd and 3rd round picks are crapshoots anyway. I am still inclined to be greedy with the picks and not trade up, but I would be kind of pumped if they did... because it would add an impact player right away IMO.
remember where you heard it first fella
on espn radio, they just read kiper's top 10 picks from his updated mock & he had bunkley going 8th...ngata was not in his top 10.
nagata is overrated not in that hes gonna be a bust or anything but in terms of not being worthy of a trade up to get
huff would be definitely be worth it
Yes.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 08:22:30 AM
nagata is overrated not in that hes gonna be a bust or anything but in terms of not being worthy of a trade up to get
huff would be definitely be worth it
Regarding Ngata, who has been compared to if not better (based on size and quickness) than Dewayne Robertson--who is a tackling machine in the middle for the Jets
As true fans of the NFL draft know, every year the "planet theory" comes into play – this theory, postulated by George Young and endorsed by Bill Parcells is as follows: there are only so many big, fat men _on the planet Earth_ who can move with agility, quickness and speed, and when a team gets a chance to take one in the draft, they will leap at that chance.
http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/halotiNgata.cfm
Quote from: hunt on April 13, 2006, 08:20:01 AM
on espn radio, they just read kiper's top 10 picks from his updated mock & he had bunkley going 8th...ngata was not in his top 10.
Wouldn't be too bad of a thing if Kiper is actually right for once.
Regarding Ngata, who has been compared to if not better (based on size and quickness) than Dewayne Robertson--who is a tackling machine in the middle for the Jets
no one ever said he isnt a quality prospect...i just dont think hes worth giving up a second round pick to get...especially in a fairly deep draft
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 09:08:40 AM
Regarding Ngata, who has been compared to if not better (based on size and quickness) than Dewayne Robertson--who is a tackling machine in the middle for the Jets
no one ever said he isnt a quality prospect...i just dont think hes worth giving up a second round pick to get...especially in a fairly deep draft
and Im not arguing with ya...just throwing it out there because he might just be when all is said and done
Quote from: EagleFeva on April 13, 2006, 09:06:20 AM
Quote from: hunt on April 13, 2006, 08:20:01 AM
on espn radio, they just read kiper's top 10 picks from his updated mock & he had bunkley going 8th...ngata was not in his top 10.
Wouldn't be too bad of a thing if Kiper is actually right for once.
yup.
i can't remember his entire top 10 but he had ad at #6 & cutler at #10...the rest were the same as every other mock.
hunt blah blah!
didnt anyone see hoge two nights ago say that both young and leinert are at best second round picks and really shouldnt be taken higher than the third
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 09:32:10 AM
didnt anyone see hoge two nights ago say that both young and leinert are at best second round picks and really shouldnt be taken higher than the third
i saw it...hoge loves to say stupid crap to get attention.
i forget the other player's name but hoge kept insisting that he's better than both leinart & young.
hunt blah blah!
Hoge is smart
Latest Mock from FoxSports:
Quote
MOCK DRAFT 7.0: Round 1
Pick Team Player Pos. School Previous Rising/Falling High/Low
1. Texans Reggie Bush RB USC 1st SAME 1st / 1st
Scouts lump Bush among some of the all-time great running back talents, including LaDainian Tomlinson, Barry Sanders, O.J. Simpson and Gale Sayers. The Texans aren't going to pass up on the opportunity to add such a rare talent.
2. Saints Matt Leinart QB USC 3rd (+1) 2nd / 3rd
The Saints will dictate how the rest of the top 10 shakes out with their decision on the second pick of the draft. Leinart is perceived by most scouts to be the most valuable commodity remaining on the board. Potential franchise quarterbacks are rare and so the Saints will consider the former Trojan even with the addition of Drew Brees. That said, the more likely scenario has the Saints trading down slightly. New Orleans has only two first-day selections. The Titans aren't likely to move up, as they have only two first-day picks of their own. The Jets, however, with five picks on the first day (including No. 4 and No. 29 of the first round), have plenty of ammunition. This would put the Saints in position to add D'Brickashaw Ferguson at a point of better value or to fulfill another need at outside linebacker with A.J. Hawk.
3. Titans Vince Young QB Texas 9th (+6) 3rd / 13th
Steve McNair is entering the final year of his contract and his base salary for this season is $9 million. The Titans and McNair are struggling to agree to a restructured contract, and there is no guarantee he will return to the team. The Titans appear to be quite high on Young and likely would take him here if Leinart is off the board. However, given the choice, the team seems to be leaning towards offensive coordinator Norm Chow's former protégé from Southern California. The uglier the McNair situation becomes, the more determined the Titans might be to add Leinart due to his knowledge of the offense and readiness to play immediately.
4. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT Virginia 2nd (-2) 2nd / 6th
With five picks on the first day, including two picks in each of the first and third rounds, the Jets certainly have the ammunition to move ahead of Tennessee and select quarterback Matt Leinart if they hold him in the high regard rumored. Should the Jets elect to stand pat, however, Ferguson makes too much sense to pass on if still available.
5. Packers Mario Williams DE N.C. State 4th (-1) 2nd / 5th
The Packers could find themselves in the enviable position of picking between the top two rated defenders of the draft. If this scenario played out, the Packers wouldn't hesitate to select Williams.
6. 49ers A.J. Hawk LB Ohio State 5th (-1) 5th / 7th
Tight end Vernon Davis would make a lot of sense here as the team attempts to add weapons for young quarterback Alex Smith, but if Hawk makes it to the sixth pick, the 49ers would be wise to bolster their defense first.
7. Raiders Michael Huff DB Texas 7th SAME 7th / 13th
The Raiders love speed and Huff, who ran a 4.34-second 40-yard dash at the combine, has plenty of that. He also would provide the consistent open-field tackler Oakland has been searching for.
8. Bills Vernon Davis TE Maryland 6th (-2) 6th / 10th
Most expect the Bills to draft one of the top two defensive tackles, and Brodrick Bunkley and Haloti Ngata certainly would make sense. However, if Davis were to fall into the Bills' lap, his value and immediate impact potential could be too much to pass on. USC tackle Winston Justice could also be a consideration, as his stock continues to rise as the draft approaches.
9. Lions Winston Justice OT USC 18th (+9) 9th / 18th
Justice's superb pro day effort has his stock skyrocketing as the draft approaches. The Lions started former seventh-round pick Kelly Butler at right tackle last year and though he performed adequately, Justice would provide an immediate upgrade.
10. Cardinals Haloti Ngata DT Oregon 10th SAME 10th / 18th
The Cardinals were among the NFL's worst last season in two areas critical to success: running the football and stopping the run. The addition of free agent Edgerrin James certainly addresses the offensive side and the 6-foot-4, 338-pound Ngata would help close defensive gaps.
11. Rams Brodrick Bunkley DT Florida State 8th (-3) 8th / 11th
The Rams have a great many options with this pick. Outside linebacker, tight end and quarterback Jay Cutler all make sense for various reasons. However, the Rams finished 27th in run defense last season and are seeking to replace two former first-round defensive tackles in Ryan Pickett and Damione Lewis. Bunkley broke the FSU record for tackles for loss in a season with 25 and was one of the top performers at both the Senior Bowl and combine.
12. Browns Kamerion Wimbley DE/OLB Florida State 12th SAME 12th / 18th
The two primary needs for the 3-4 alignment are a nose guard and outside linebackers. The Browns addressed both via free agency, but they are still looking for depth. Wimbley would give them a young pass rusher to soak up knowledge from newly signed Willie McGinest.
13. Ravens Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt 13th SAME 4th / 13th
Teams are all over the board on Cutler, which could facilitate a slight drop down the board for the former SEC star. The Ravens are looking to add some competition for Kyle Boller and have closely scouted this year's passers. Quarterbacks coach Rick Neuheisel joined the Baltimore scouting staff at the Senior Bowl, where Cutler shined. The Ravens like Justice, but his pro day performance may have vaulted him out of Baltimore's reach.
14. Eagles Manny Lawson DE/OLB N.C. State 11th (-3) 11th / NR
Defensive coordinator Jim Johnson's defense is predicated on pressure and speed. Lawson, a collegiate defensive end, has an unbelievable combination of size (6-6, 241) and speed (4.43) and would be making the transition here to strong side outside linebacker. Lawson's workout and past production (10.5 sacks as a senior) has his stock moving up.
15. Broncos (from Falcons) Chad Jackson WR Florida 14th (-1) 14th / 29th
Rod Smith can't last forever and former first-round pick Ashley Lelie continues to struggle with consistency. The Broncos are believed to be targeting Jackson and pass rushers Wimbley and Lawson with this pick, and will simply take their choice of who remains.
16. Dolphins Jimmy Williams DB Virginia Tech 16th SAME 11th / 22nd
Nick Saban has shown a willingness to take a chance on inconsistent athletes in the past with Ricky Williams and Manuel Wright. Williams wasn't as dominant at his pro day as expected and struggles with consistency, but is the draft's most gifted cornerback. Some might feel the Dolphins have addressed the need for corners with the recent free-agent additions of Will Allen and Andre Goodman, but depth is unreliable.
17. Vikings Ernie Sims OLB Florida State 17th SAME 14th / 23rd
The Vikings are looking to add linebackers with the speed to play in their Cover-2 alignment. Sims showed his 4.50 speed at the combine and has drawn comparisons to Derrick Brooks, considered by many to be the prototype Cover-2 linebacker.
18. Cowboys Antonio Cromartie CB Florida State NR (NR) 18th / NR
A bit of a surprise here, but Cromartie's blend of size and playmaking ability has him climbing the board. The Cowboys love to make a splash on draft day and would like to add to their secondary.
19. Chargers Tye Hill CB Clemson 19th SAME 15th / 31st
The Chargers have certainly tried to address the cornerback position in the past, as they employ three former first rounders there. Unfortunately, Quentin Jammer, Sammy Davis and Jamar Fletcher only snared three interceptions between them in 2005. Hill's explosive speed likely assures him being selected in the top 20, even if teams are wary of his less-than-prototypical size (5-10, 185).
20. Chiefs (from Bills) Kelly Jennings CB Miami 20th SAME 20th / NR
After releasing Eric Warfield and Dexter McCleon, the Chiefs will strongly consider top cornerback prospects with their first-round pick. Only Williams and Hill are considered locks for the top 20, however, so the Chiefs might have to reach a little to fill this need. There are other corners with more upside still on the board and Jennings' lack of size (5-11, 178) is a concern. However, the former Hurricane is considered one of the top man-to-man cornerbacks in the draft and a relatively safe pick at this point. Excluding Derrick Johnson, the Chiefs have made several early-round mistakes on defensive players in recent years and can't afford another gamble on greatness here.
21. Patriots Bobby Carpenter OLB Ohio State 21st SAME 21st / NR
The Patriots rarely draft for need, but with a hole at linebacker and the versatile, instinctive Carpenter on the board, the pick makes too much sense not to be given strong consideration. Besides, with five picks in the top 105, the Patriots have plenty of opportunities to address other needs.
Quote
21. Patriots Bobby Carpenter OLB Ohio State 21st SAME 21st / NR
The Patriots rarely draft for need, but with a hole at linebacker and the versatile, instinctive Carpenter on the board, the pick makes too much sense not to be given strong consideration. Besides, with five picks in the top 105, the Patriots have plenty of opportunities to address other needs.
22. Broncos (from taterskins) DeAngelo Williams RB Memphis 29th (+7) 21st / 29th
The Broncos are looking to the draft to add depth at running back, though they won't necessarily take one in the first round. That said, if the NCAA's leader in career all-purpose yardage is available, they might have to consider him here. Williams averaged nearly 26 carries per game over the past two seasons, a feature the Broncos will appreciate with Tatum Bell and Ron Dayne appearing to be more situational backs than featured runners. td>
23. Buccaneers Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State NR (NR) 24th / NR
A strong defense and the running of rookie Cadillac Williams receives much of the credit for the Bucs making the playoffs last year, but the resurrection of Joey Galloway was arguably the biggest factor. His 83 receptions for 1,287 yards and 10 touchdowns topped his numbers for the previous two seasons combined. It might be asking a bit much for the 34-year-old to repeat that production in 2006. Holmes would provide an immediate upgrade in the slot and would eventually take Galloway's place as the outside vertical threat.
24. Bengals Leonard Pope TE Georgia 24th SAME 24th / NR
The Bengals have addressed needs at defensive tackle and safety via free agency but remain in the hunt for a game-changing tight end. Pope is raw and would be considered a reach by some, but in an offense as talented as this one, it isn't difficult to imagine the 6-8, 258-pounder making a positive impact immediately.
25. Giants Chad Greenway LB Iowa 25th SAME 12th / 31st
Greenway is slipping down the board a bit due to surprisingly average workout numbers, but the former Hawkeye likely won't slip past the Giants, who are still in major need of help at the position. Signing free agent LaVar Arrington would allow the team to focus on another area, perhaps even looking for depth behind Tiki Barber.
26. Bears Johnathan Joseph CB South Carolina 26th SAME 16th / 30th
The Bears will look at an offensive playmaker here, but consider cornerback to be just as much a need as Charles Tillman sagged down the stretch in '05 and veteran Jerry Azumah was forced into retirement by injuries. Joseph is a spectacular talent, but the junior could be available this late because he has essentially played just one season at the D-I level after transferring in as a JUCO and losing most of the 2004 season to a broken foot.
27. Panthers Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 27th SAME 24th / NR
The Panthers drafted strong safety Thomas Davis last year with the intention of moving him to outside linebacker. Now, with Will Witherspoon moving on to the Rams, the team is carrying out its plan to move Davis, but suddenly has a hole at safety. Whitner is one the few safeties who currently carries a first-round grade.
28. Jaguars DeMeco Ryans OLB Alabama NR (NR) 27th / NR
Even before Akin Ayodele left as a free agent, outside linebacker was a primary concern. Ryans, a heady, athletic defender, would be a suitable replacement and a good value at this point.
29. Jets (from Broncos) Nick Mangold C Ohio State 28th (-1) 28th / NR
What happens with the Jets' first pick, No. 4 overall, will have a huge impact on what they are looking to do here. They might be fundamentally unwilling to spend two first-round picks on offensive linemen, but Mangold is a good value here and would provide an immediate replacement for departed Kevin Mawae.
30. Colts Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota 30th SAME 24th / 30th
Maroney's vision and smooth running style make him a natural fit for the Colts, who are looking toward the draft to replace Edgerrin James.
31. Seahawks Mathias Kiwanuka DE Boston College NR (NR) 29th / NR
The Seahawks feel their top remaining priority this off-season is to address their defensive backfield. That said, with only two picks on the first day due to the third-round compensation for signing Vikings restricted free agent Nate Burleson, Seattle has to stick with the best player available philosophy. The Seahawks lack depth at defensive end behind starters Grant Wistrom and Bryce Fisher and would have to consider an edge rusher like Kiwanuka if he remained on the board.
32. Steelers LenDale White RB USC 22nd (-10) 14th / 32nd
It remains to be seen just how far White could drop due to his performance, or lack thereof, during the combine and pro day workouts. Regardless, there is no denying how well his size and run-after-contact production would fit in Pittsburgh. The Steelers will also strongly consider a safety here.
Manny Lawson is my *official* prediction for the Eagles pick, but I still think he'd play DE and not LB.
What the hell do I know, though?
what about a trade down in the first if 'everyone' is gone and a trade up in the second for mangold if hes gettable
is that way to crazy
It's certainly conceivable. I think the Eagles are more likely to stay put than anything, especially if the board has pretty much gone to plan and no one of specific value is there... because then they wouldn't receive much value in a trade-down and probably wouldn't do it, IMO.
i wonder how often if ever a team has traded down in the first then traded up in the second in the same draft
thats why i ask if its crazy...is it simple just something that would never happen
Anything is possible on draft day. Finding the trade partners while you're on the clock is the tricky part.
right...and finding a partner for not just one but two straight picks is probably to much for it to happen
anyway seems like mangold would be a nice get...even tho ive never seen him play a single snap outside of draft preview show highlites
Problem is the book on Mangold is basically that he's Hank Fraley with a little more upside.
But in general, he's one of those "high floor" guys you hear a lot about. He's never going to be the kind of nasty road grader that his fellow alumnus LeCharles Bentley is. But... the Eagles obviously prefer the smart, pass-blocking type guy to the big, strong guys anyway... so...
I don't know. I don't think there's any chance the Eagles take him... because he is still a rookie, and they already have two somewhat OK options at Center. The thing about Bentley was that he was a known excellent commodity. I don't think they'd invest a high pick in a Center right now.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 13, 2006, 02:33:14 PM
Anything is possible on draft day. Finding the trade partners while you're on the clock is the tricky part.
Like maybe we finally found our new fullback:
(http://www.draftdaddy.com/images/players/halotiNgata3.jpg)
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 09:32:10 AM
didnt anyone see hoge two nights ago say that both young and leinert are at best second round picks and really shouldnt be taken higher than the third
Hoge, go away. Far, far away.
i refuse to believe a center that some people are giving a first round grade too isnt easily better than fraley right now...forget about any upside he might have...fraley is brutal...
i still want mcintosh or howard in the second round tho
Like maybe we finally found our new fullback:
add 100 lbs to that Ngata pic
Quote from: reese125 on April 13, 2006, 03:16:56 PM
Like maybe we finally found our new fullback:
add 100 lbs to that Ngata pic
Nothin like a game of rugby between Samoans and Tongans. Makes RollerBall look like a a game of kickball.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 03:16:16 PM
i refuse to believe a center that some people are giving a first round grade too isnt easily better than fraley right now...forget about any upside he might have...fraley is brutal...
All I'm saying is that the same things that Fraley is good/ok at (calling line adjustments, usually at least playing the correct assignment, pass blocking) are the same things that Mangold is known for.
im not disagreeing...just wondering why he is graded so highly then...seems like if thats all he was you could get him in the 3rd or 4th round
He's got more physical capability to do more with his skills someday than Fraley ever could.
get mangold
Clark Judge has a nice breakdown of Outside Linebackers.....it's getting slow around here:
Quote
Top Prospects: Outside linebackers
Top Five
1. A.J. Hawk, Ohio State
The skinny: The guy is bullet proof. He's tough. He's strong. He's fast. He's relentless. He's good in coverage. He's a sure tackler. He can play inside. He can play outside. He was the Lombardi award winner. He was the Big Ten Defensive MVP. He led his team in tackles three straight years. "In short," said one NFL assistant, "he might be the best guy on the board."
2. Ernie Sims, Florida State
The skinny: He's riding the elevator going up. Coaches love his explosion, with one coach saying "it jumps out at you" when you switch on the videotape. His height is a drawback, but coaches love linebackers who stay on the field in pass or run. This one does. Though he played two years at strongside linebacker, he's perfectly designed to play the weakside in a 3-4.
3. Chad Greenway, Iowa
The skinny: A two-time All Big-Ten choice, he's an outstanding athlete with great range. Can make plays all over the field and is very instinctive. Also very smart. Great size but can get tied up with blockers. Strength an issue. Had a better season his junior year than in 2005.
4. DeMeco Ryans, Alabama
The skinny: He plays with great leverage. Doesn't have great speed, but he plays faster than he times. Very smart and instinctive. Exceptional character. Doesn't have great size and his athletic ability is ordinary. But the intangibles are greater than the talent, with Ryans a marvelous leader and dependable teammate.
5. Thomas Howard, UTEP
The skinny: A gifted athlete, he can play either the weak or strong side. He also has the skills to play safety. He's tremendously mobile and has great play recognition. Can cover tight ends or slot receivers. Also can play inside or outside and may be best suited as a 3-4 rush linebacker.
Player on the rise:
Sims. Scouts drooled over him at the February scouting combine, and there's a reason: They love guys who can explode to the ball, and there may be no one with a quicker first step than Sims. He's put himself in the top 15.
Player on the decline:
Iowa's Greenway benched 225 pounds 16 times at the combine; then he ran a 4.78. Neither is good. "He must get stronger," said one player personnel director. If he isn't covered by a strong front line he's in trouble.
Sleeper
Terna Nande, Miami (Ohio). He benched 225 pounds 41 times at the February combine and ran a 4.53 40. "He has great measurables," said a coach. He also had a great game against Ohio State. He doesn't have ideal size, but he's a tackling machine -- with over 100 stops in 2003.
Overrated
A.J. Nicholson, Florida State. He doesn't have much speed, and he had a poor workout at FSU. Between personal problems and a poor workout his stock has taken a hit. "He looks like a backup guy for special teams," said one scout.
Underrated
Jon Alston, Stanford. Produced 16.5 sacks the past two seasons. Can play either outside position and explodes to the ball. He doesn't have ideal size, but is a big hitter who closes on the ball quickly.
Positional assessment:
Very, very deep and very, very good. Hawk might be the best player in the draft, but you miss nothing if you wind up with Sims.
DT's:
Quote
Top Prospects: Defensive tackles
Top Five
1. Broderick Bunkley, Florida State
The skinny: He opened a lot of eyes by benching 225 pounds 44 times at the combine. He's strong, quick and effective -- a solid run stopper who can pressure the pocket. Had a school-record 25 tackles for losses last year. With his strength and ability he may be better suited to playing nose tackle.
2. Haloti Ngata, Oregon
The skinny: He's huge -- with some scouts wondering if his weight becomes a problem. Flashy. Very inconsistent. Can be very effective on the nose in a 3-4. A good tackler whose size was a factor on special teams. He blocked six kicks.
3. Claude Wroten, LSU
The skinny: On the field he's similar to Bunkley; in fact, one scout believed he's the most talented defensive tackle. He has great up-field explosion and is powerful. A physical player who can change directions and be disruptive. Can play on the edge. Hurt by laziness and a Jan. 4 arrest that had him kicked out of the Senior Bowl.
4. Gabe Watson, Michigan
The skinny: Massive tackle who can be dominant when he wants to be. But that's the problem: He's too inconsistent. It's tough to find players his size, but his play doesn't always match his bulk.
5. John McCargo, N.C. State
The skinny: A big, smart player who has the ability to dominate. One problem: He can be inconsistent. He missed six games last year because of a foot injury and had a so-so combine. With the right coach and the right system he could be special.
Player on the rise:
N.C. State's McCargo will go to a club looking for a 3-4 nose tackle. He doesn't appear big enough or athletic enough to play in a 4-3, but he's solid against the run and an effective pass rusher. Remember, defensive tackles are valued this time of year -- sometimes overvalued.
Player on the decline:
Michigan's Watson was benched his senior year for laziness, and, as one assistant said, "if that happens in college how do you think he responds when he's making millions of dollars?" I don't know, either, but his stock is down. Coaches worry about the guy's motor.
Sleeper
Steve Williams, NW Missouri State. A transfer from Indiana, he helped his team set a school record for fewest rushing yards allowed per game (94). He has great size but needs to work on his strength. Looked good at the Las Vegas Classic.
Overrated
Orien Harris, Miami. Scouts are concerned that he plays too high and doesn't have a good work ethic. Not a lot of production, either, and there are lingering questions about his toughness and desire. "He's just not a very good worker," said one NFC scout.
Underrated
Kyle Williams, LSU. He's always been overshadowed in college -- first by Marcus Spears, then Claude Wroten -- but he's a tough guy who never quits, and he was more productive than Wroten. Doesn't have great athletic ability but is fiercely determined. Must fit in the right situation.
Positional assessment:
Often you find a defensive tackle in the top 10 draft choices; sometimes in the top five. That probably won't happen this year, thanks to a group that is little more than adequate.
And DE's:
Quote
Top Prospects: Defensive ends
Top Five
1. Mario Williams, N.C. State
The skinny: He reminds scouts of Julius Peppers, only he may be better. Honest. This guy is a load, setting a school record with 14.5 sacks last season -- including four versus Maryland -- and an ACC mark with 24 tackles for losses. He has good size, range and pass-rush ability. He's the best defensive lineman in the draft.
2. Kamerion Wimbley, Florida State
The skinny: An above-average pass rusher who has a good first step. At 250 pounds, he's a little light, but he has the frame to accommodate more weight. Can play as a rush linebacker in a 3-4 or as a defensive end in a 4-3. Think DeMarcus Ware.
3. Tamba Hali, Penn State
The skinny: He didn't run well in his workout, which will knock him down some. But he's an effective pass rusher who makes up for his lack of speed with quickness and, as a converted defensive tackle, is solid versus the run.
4. Mathias Kiwanuka, Boston College
The skinny: The Eagles' MVP, he finished with a school-record 37.5 sacks. He has more athletic ability than Wimbley but also has occasional lapses. He has a good burst and is outstanding at the loop stunt. Uses his hands very well. Wasn't really himself after suffering a high-ankle sprain in the season opener.
5. Manny Lawson, N.C. State
The skinny: A former linebacker, he helped himself with a 4.48 in the 40 at the February combine. He projects as a perfect pass rusher in a 3-4, able to beat offensive linemen with his speed. But his lack of bulk could be a concern for 4-3 defensive coordinators, with opponents determined to run at him.
Player on the rise:
N.C. State's Lawson put on a show at the combine, running a 4.48 40 and finishing with the fastest shuttle time. Speed never was an issue with Lawson; size is, with scouts hopeful he can add weight to his 6-5 frame. One big plus: He blocked six punts in his college career.
Player on the decline:
Penn State's Hali. The Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year did little of consequence at the Senior Bowl, then flubbed his workout for pro scouts -- running 4.88 despite losing weight. Hali still is highly regarded, but not as highly as he was two months ago.
Sleeper
Chris Gucong, Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo. Winner of the Buchanon award, given annually to the best Division I-AA defensive player. He's undersized, but he will fight to make plays -- and he made a lot of them, with 41 sacks the past two years.
Overrated
Elvis Dumervil, Louisville. He led the nation with 20 sacks last season, including six in the season opener against Kentucky, but his size kills the poor guy. "When's the last time you saw a 5-11 defensive end in the pros?" asked one player personnel director. His team doesn't have Dumervil on its draft board.
Underrated
Mark Anderson, Alabama. Don't look for him in the first round. He won't be there. But he helped his chances of making it to the first day with an extraordinary combine, running 4.68, a 42-inch vertical leap and the second fastest shuttle of all defensive linemen. Needs to mature.
Positional assessment:
It's a good group of players; not a great one -- though there's one special player at the top of the board. You can find depth here, but you better be careful.
so ernie sims is the second best player in the draft....cool
it is me or does there seem to be a ton of players in this years draft that are better suited to play in a 3-4...tweener type guys...
Get Wimbley.
Lawson
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 03:54:46 PM
so ernie sims is the second best player in the draft....cool
Que?
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 13, 2006, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 03:54:46 PM
so ernie sims is the second best player in the draft....cool
Que?
The analysis said that A.J. Hawk might be the best player in the draft and that the team that gets Sims instead of Hawk "won't miss anything"... meaning he will make just as many plays one way or another.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 13, 2006, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 13, 2006, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 13, 2006, 03:54:46 PM
so ernie sims is the second best player in the draft....cool
Que?
The analysis said that A.J. Hawk might be the best player in the draft and that the team that gets Sims instead of Hawk "won't miss anything"... meaning he will make just as many plays one way or another.
Thanks for the clarrification.
SportsCenter on now...Mel Kiper, Mort and Tom Jackson are breaking down team needs, weaknesses, and strengths and projecting picks for the teams. Tonight is the Ravens and the Eagles, they just had the Ravens take Ngata. :boom
Had us taking Winston Justice. Dickhead Salisbury said it goes Cowboys, Giants, taterskins, with Eagles playing chase for this year. I hate that farger. Idiot.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 13, 2006, 06:36:14 PM
SportsCenter on now...Mel Kiper, Mort and Tom Jackson are breaking down team needs, weaknesses, and strengths and projecting picks for the teams. Tonight is the Ravens and the Eagles, they just had the Ravens take Ngata. :boom
Had us taking Winston Justice. Dickhead Salisbury said it goes Cowboys, Giants, taterskins, with Eagles playing chase for this year. I hate that farger. Idiot.
Salisbury =
(http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/BDX/BDX273/bxp47027.jpg)
Santoni Holmes on ESPN now.
(http://www.puppypoopy.com/animal/donk1.jpg)
Hoge and Salisbury together forever...who change their minds like the weather. A new NFC and AFC champ each week....please
anytime Salisbury is mentioned Im just going to bring up that he said Kyle Boller was going to be a pro bowl QB last year.
Mayock is talking about the Lions or Raiders possibly taking Ernie Sims IF HE FALLS THAT FAR. Weird.
Well, we all know that at least 1 team in the top 10 makes a questionable choice every year. For years, it was the Cards. Now, it seems to be the Lions. Though I wouldn't doubt them if they took Justice, because they need an OL in front of whoever their QB is going to be, it wouldn't surprise me if they took someone like Sims.
theres seven locks that are going top ten...the other three spots could be filled by as many as 5-6 other players....sims definitely being one of them
I just wish the Eagles could somehow make a 2-WIL system work. I really like what Sims brings to the table and think he would be a beast in JJ's defense as a WIL and/or a nickel backer. I just can't see the Eagles investing a high pick on a guy who isn't very well suited to play SAM or MLB.
Then again, they tried to sell us on Simoneau at MLB, so anything's popular.
I had a dream last night that the Eagles took Laurence Maroney. That would be weird.
you have dreams about the Eagles draft?
Patt hates football
Quote from: jms246 on April 14, 2006, 08:26:52 AM
you have dreams about the Eagles draft?
Occasionally. I am obsessed with the draft. I literally watch every single second of it if at all possible.
you dont sleep on an Eagles downcomforter, with Eagles pillowcases and an Andy Reid doll do you? Cmon Patt
No. The wife accepts my obsession to a certain degree and at certain times, but would prefer not to be reminded night after night... also, she's allergic to down. Ha.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 14, 2006, 08:30:27 AM
Occasionally. I am obsessed with the draft. I literally watch every single second of it if at all possible.
oh, im with you on that. i am a lump on the couch for that weekend.
Occasionally. I am obsessed with the draft. I literally watch every single second of it if at all possible.
doesnt everyone on these boards?
the only time im not watching is when im at the keg grill or bathroom
i actually like the second day better when the picks are only five minutes between....the first day is way longer than it needs to be...but that second day all hungover from the draft party just loungin on the couch is the best...and this year i have monday off so the hangover wont last very long
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 08:39:35 AM
i actually like the second day better when the picks are only five minutes between....the first day is way longer than it needs to be...but that second day all hungover from the draft party just loungin on the couch is the best...and this year i have monday off so the hangover wont last very long
i totally agree, the 1st day, especially the 1st round, is filled with too much shtein, player interviews and that shtein.
2nd day is straight picks with some highlight footage if we're lucky. once in awhile they go to that stupid roof of players doing a circle jerk with Andrea Kramer, i don't care what Corey Chavous thinks of the Titans 6th round pick, i really don't.
i don't care what Corey Chavous thinks of the Titans 6th round pick, i really don't.
is there anyone more arrogant and pompous than jon jansen on that shtein...i dont care what either have to say but at least chavous comes off as someone just having fun doing something he loves...jansen is just a fleshpop
i really dont care what anyone has to say except mel...number one he has seen more of the picks than all the other guys combined and number two his delivery and verbage are impeccable...mel is god
Jansen is an ass, no doubt.
i like you bi-polar relationship with Mel, good stuff.
no way mel is my favorite always has been...ive even met him a few times
but sometimes you talk him down like he's dogshtein in the sole of your shoe
dont ever underestimate my love for mel
UConn's Nelson decides to leave hoops for NFL
Associated Press
STORRS, Conn. -- Connecticut basketball player Ed Nelson has decided to pursue a career in the National Football League, playing a sport he hasn't competed in since his freshman year of high school.
The 6-foot-8, 265-pound senior power forward plans to work out for NFL teams April 21 on the UConn campus.
"I have gotten great feedback in the last week that I am an individual that NFL teams could and will be very interested in," Nelson said Thursday. "I am anxious for the chance to show scouts next week that I can help their team in the future."
School officials said Nelson played youth football and played one year of high school football before focusing on basketball full-time.
Nelson's agent, Joe Linta, represents dozens of NFL players and coaches, including linemen Will Shields of the Kansas City Chiefs and Matt Birk of the Minnesota Vikings and Cleveland Browns head coach Romeo Crennel.
"I came up to work out Ed with little expectations and came away convinced that he is an NFL prospect at the tight end position," Linta said. "He is very quick, has outstanding hands and great lower body strength."
Nelson, from Fort Lauderdale, Fla., played 29 games as a reserve for the UConn basketball team after transferring from Georgia Tech, where he was the ACC rookie of the year in 2001-02. He averaged three points and three rebounds per game at Connecticut.
At St. Thomas Aquinas High School, he averaged 26 points and 11 rebounds in his senior year and led the team to the Class 5A state title. He was named Florida Player of the Year for Class 6A-5A-4A by the Fort Lauderdale Sun-Sentinel.
"He clearly has the talent to play basketball at the professional level, but if anyone can make the transition, it's him," UConn basketball coach Jim Calhoun said.
well, he wasn't going to do anything in the NBA.
he'll be delivering pizzas in about 14 months.
dont you have to be able to move to play TE
i wanna see him be mr irrrleveant
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 14, 2006, 08:30:27 AM
Quote from: jms246 on April 14, 2006, 08:26:52 AM
you have dreams about the Eagles draft?
Occasionally. I am obsessed with the draft. I literally watch every single second of it if at all possible.
I had a dream about the draft a few nights ago and the eagles drafted frank thomas. the baseball player. it was weird.
GET THOMAS!
Don't know if this has been posted--it's The Huddle Report's latest mock--I only took the Eagles' picks:
14 WR Chad Jackson Florida
45 LB Thomas Howard UTEP
76 DT Babatunde Oshinowo Stanford
108 OT Kevin Boothe Cornell
116 OG Fred Matua USC
127 RB Garrett Mills Tulsa
147 CB Charles Gordon Kansas
168 TE TJ Williams North Carolina St
204 S Jarrad Page UCLA
220 OC Donovan Raiola
those first two picks would make me very very happy
i thought you wanted Sinorce over Jackson?
actually, i thought you didnt' like Jackson at all.
id rather trade back and get moss and i like moss better...but i dont have anything against jackson...yeah hes a little overrated as i think he was a product of urban meyers system this year...but really it has more to do with the fact id rather have a wr than a lineman like bunkley...and i love howard
the first two picks should be lb, wr
sims and moss
jackson and howard
holmes and mcintosh ect...
of course if things shake out differently and there isnt a wr in the second worth taking at 46 or someone like huff unexpectedly falls in the first then you change it up...but in general i want those two spots taken early
i agree, my January prediciton of Justice was assuming that Runyan was gone, but since they lost out on Bently, they needed Runyan back and that changed things a little. He's still a very viable option. But since they have RT locked up for at least 2 more years, they aren't desperate for a future RT anymore.
I think my first choice would be to get Huff...as i don't know enough about Jackson or Moss or the LBs.
I'll probably watch on NFLN to avoid Chavous/Jansen.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 10:20:38 AM
id rather trade back and get moss and i like moss better...but i dont have anything against jackson...yeah hes a little overrated as i think he was a product of urban meyers system this year...but really it has more to do with the fact id rather have a wr than a lineman like bunkley...and i love howard
the first two picks should be lb, wr
sims and moss
jackson and howard
holmes and mcintosh ect...
of course if things shake out differently and there isnt a wr in the second worth taking at 46 or someone like huff unexpectedly falls in the first then you change it up...but in general i want those two spots taken early
I still cant figure what the hell you want Moss so bad for. Is it because:
1) he is fast
2) he was a below avg receiver
3) all of his TD capabilities shown in college
3) he rarely returned punts or kickoffs in college
4) he loves his brother and his brother loves him
5) you just think he will be good
I still cant figure what the hell you want Moss so bad for
i dont want moss "so bad"...i just said a couple posts back that i would be happy with jackson and howard...what i do want is a playmaker on offense and his playmaking skills are the best in the draft outside of reggie bush...why is chad jackson or santonio holmes a better pick...because they are a little safer?...when everything is factored in are they appreciably better wide recievers??...i dont think so...moss has great hands and can do more with the ball after catching it than either of them...his only risk in my opinion is his size but holmes isnt exactly a monster
as for the punt returns you realize how many nfl punt returners didnt return kicks for four years in college...some didnt do it at all...watch moss' punt returns in college and watch his skills in general (great hands, burst, shiftyness) and i dont know how someone could not see the potential to be a great pro return man
The chances of the Eagles getting Moss are extremely slim, so don't get your panties in a bunch over it.
If they do get him, I guarantee he will make plays.
P.S. If we really want a punt returner, why not get Hester, Moss' teammate, in a later round?
P.S. If we really want a punt returner, why not get Hester, Moss' teammate, in a later round?
im all for that...he is sick...but does hester have a position in the league other than PR...im not sure he does and i cant see reid taking someone like that
Yeah, me neither... especially as early in the draft as he might go (3rd round).
is he really supposed to go first day?...thats surprising
i was thinking the eagles could take a flyer on him with one of their fourths
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 11:10:11 AM
P.S. If we really want a punt returner, why not get Hester, Moss' teammate, in a later round?
im all for that...he is sick...but does hester have a position in the league other than PR...im not sure he does and i cant see reid taking someone like that
He could play corner, and there is some talk that he could be converted to WR. He doesn't really have the size you look for in a DB, but with some good coaching and time he could be okay as a nickel back, but would mostly be there for STs, which is fine, because the dude is a threat every time he touches the ball. I would like to see if they could convert him to a pass catcher, if only as a hitch, screen, reverse kind of deal.
Here's a video that shows why Moss didn't return kicks or punts (http://media.putfile.com/Hester4Hesiman)
I would contend both Reed and Wynn were selected as returners, not DBs.
Quote from: MadMarchHare on April 14, 2006, 11:18:22 AM
I would contend both Reed and Wynn were selected as returners, not DBs.
Right, and Reed was a 4th rounder, so that's as early as the Eagles would take a specialist IMO.
hester is amazing...youd have to be to unseat moss as the KR...but hester was brought in to be a stud wr and showed he literally couldnt play the position where as moss could...that is a big reason he ended up there
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 11:22:15 AM
hester is amazing...youd have to be to unseat moss as the KR...but hester was brought in to be a stud wr and showed he literally couldnt play the position where as moss could...that is a big reason he ended up there
Hester is slow ;)
Quote from: reese125 on April 14, 2006, 11:23:39 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 11:22:15 AM
hester is amazing...youd have to be to unseat moss as the KR...but hester was brought in to be a stud wr and showed he literally couldnt play the position where as moss could...that is a big reason he ended up there
Hester is slow ;)
Seriously, do you have anything to contribute? STFU already. Clown.
did u wake up on the wrong side of the cage this morning Phanin.....look at the wink clown. The guy is lightning
hesters athletic ability tops that of even reggie bush...unfortunately he cant catch a cold...and doesnt understand the concept of running from A to B therefore cant execute even the simpleist of pass patterns
and he could be skinniest football player ive ever seen
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 11:27:49 AM
hesters athletic ability tops that of even reggie bush...unfortunately he cant catch a cold...and doesnt understand the concept of running from A to B therefore cant run pass patterns
and he could be skinniest football player ive ever seen
(http://www.snrmedia.com/gallery/2005superbowl/tuesday/images/todd%20pinkston_jpg.jpg)
good point...i guess i meant slight...he isnt the shortest or the skinniest hes just all around small as shtein
That farging camcorder looks like it may snap his wrist.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 14, 2006, 11:17:41 AM
Here's a video that shows why Moss didn't return kicks or punts (http://media.putfile.com/Hester4Hesiman)
Not that those weren't good kick returns, but when your collegiate highlight reel consists of 3 plays, that's not too impressive.
Quote from: phattymatty on April 14, 2006, 11:34:57 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 14, 2006, 11:17:41 AM
Here's a video that shows why Moss didn't return kicks or punts (http://media.putfile.com/Hester4Hesiman)
Not that those weren't good kick returns, but when your collegiate highlight reel consists of 3 plays, that's not too impressive.
Those plays were just the returns for TDs he had in his Freshman and Sophomore year.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 08:45:58 AM
i don't care what Corey Chavous thinks of the Titans 6th round pick, i really don't.
is there anyone more arrogant and pompous than jon jansen on that shtein...i dont care what either have to say but at least chavous comes off as someone just having fun doing something he loves...jansen is just a fleshpop
i really dont care what anyone has to say except mel...number one he has seen more of the picks than all the other guys combined and number two his delivery and verbage are impeccable...mel is god
Mike Vrabel is worse than Jansen. I forget who he was blasting last year (might've been Mo Clarett) but he bit into someone and sounded like a total dick doing it.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 08:45:58 AM
is there anyone more arrogant and pompous than jon jansen on that shtein...i dont care what either have to say but at least chavous comes off as someone just having fun doing something he loves...jansen is just a fleshpop
Man... I couldn't agree more. Jansen sits over on the end arrogant as shtein and rips anything that he didn't have on his little "board". I remember even a few years ago he was all over Ramsey's jock when he was drafted as if he was Johnny Unitas reincarnated and actually tried to fight someone down who didn't totally agree with him. Wonder how he feels about Ramsey now.
He's a farging idiot.
Not sure if this has been posted yet:
Kiper's first four rounds (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2405172)
Quote
1. Houston Reggie Bush, RB USC
2. New Orleans Mario Williams, DE NC State
3. Tennessee Matt Leinart, QB USC
4. N.Y. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson, T Virginia
5. Green Bay A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio St.
6. San Francisco Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
7. Oakland Vince Young, QB Texas
8. Buffalo Brodrick Bunkley, DT Florida St.
9. Detroit Michael Huff, DB Texas
10. Arizona Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
11. St. Louis Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
12. Cleveland Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB Florida St.
13. Baltimore Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon
14. Philadelphia Winston Justice, T USC
15. Denver (from ATL) Chad Jackson, WR Florida
16. Miami Donte Whitner, S Ohio St.
17. Minnesota Ernie Sims, LB Florida St.
18. Dallas Jason Allen, S/CB Tennessee
19. San Diego Johnathan Joseph, CB South Carolina
20. Kansas City Tye Hill, CB Clemson
21. New England Santonio Holmes, WR Ohio St.
22. Denver (from WSH) DeAngelo Williams, RB Memphis
23. Tampa Bay Antonio Cromartie, CB Florida St.
24. Cincinnati Jimmy Williams, CB Virginia Tech
25. N.Y. Giants Kelly Jennings, CB Miami
26. Chicago Richard Marshall CB Fresno St.
27. Carolina LenDale White, RB USC
28. Jacksonville Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. N.Y. Jets (from DEN) Manny Lawson, DE/OLB NC State
30. Indianapolis Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota
31. Seattle Ashton Youboty, CB Ohio St.
32. Pittsburgh Sinorice Moss, WR Miami
1st Round | 2nd Round | 3rd Round | 4th Round
Second-Round Projections
33. Houston Eric Winston, T Miami
34. New Orleans Nick Mangold, C Ohio St.
35. N.Y. Jets Joseph Addai, RB LSU
36. Green Bay Tamba Hali, DE Penn St.
37. San Francisco Bobby Carpenter, LB Ohio St.
38. Oakland Gabe Watson, DT Michigan
39. Tennessee D'Qwell Jackson, LB Maryland
40. Detroit Davin Joseph, G Oklahoma
41. Arizona Leonard Pope, TE Georgia
42. Buffalo Taitusi "Deuce" Lutui, G USC
43. Cleveland Abdul Hodge, LB Iowa
44. Baltimore Brodie Croyle, QB Alabama
45. Philadelphia DeMeco Ryans, LB Alabama
46. St. Louis Orien Harris, DT Miami
47. Atlanta Cedric Griffin, CB Texas
48. Minnesota Kellen Clemens, QB Oregon
49. Dallas Marcus McNeill, T Auburn
50. San Diego Demetrius Williams, WR Oregon
51. Minnesota (from MIA) Chris Chester, OL Oklahoma
52. New England Brian Calhoun, RB Wisconsin
53. Washington Rocky McIntosh, LB Miami
54. Kansas City Darryl Tapp, DE Virginia Tech
55. Cincinnati Dominique Byrd, TE USC
56. N.Y. Giants Thomas Howard, LB UTEP
57. Chicago Greg Jennings, WR Western Michigan
58. Carolina Joe Klopfenstein, TE Colorado
59. Tampa Bay Andrew Whitworth, T LSU
60. Jacksonville Jason Spitz, C Louisville
61. Denver Mark Anderson, DE Alabama
62. Indianapolis Daniel Bullocks, DB Nebraska
63. Seattle Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College
64. Pittsburgh Danieal Manning, DB Abilene Christian
1st Round | 2nd Round | 3rd Round | 4th Round
Third-Round Projections
65. Houston Ko Simpson, DB South Carolina
66. Houston (from NO) Gerris Wilkinson, LB Georgia Tech
67. Green Bay Max Jean-Gilles, G Georgia
68. San Francisco David Pittman, CB Northwestern St. (La.)
69. Oakland Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
70. Buffalo (from TEN) Ryan O'Callaghan, T California
71. N.Y. Jets Brandon Williams, WR Wisconsin
72. Arizona Jon Alston, LB Stanford
73. Buffalo Maurice Stovall, WR Notre Dame
74. Detroit Devin Hester, CB Miami
75. New England (from BAL) Chris Gocong, DE/LB Cal Poly-SLO
76. Philadelphia Claude Wroten, DT LSU
77. St. Louis David Thomas, TE Texas
78. Cleveland Charles Spencer, G Pittsburgh
79. Atlanta Calvin Lowery, DB Penn St.
80. Dallas Charlie Whitehurst, QB Clemson
81. San Diego Paul McQuistan, OL Weber St.
82. Miami Parys Haralson, DE Tennessee
83. Minnesota Will Blackmon, WR/CB Boston College
84. San Francisco (from WSH) Victor Adeyanju, DE Indiana
85. Kansas City Brandon Marshall, WR Central Florida
86. New England Montavious Stanley, DT Louisville
87. N.Y. Giants Kyle Williams, DT LSU
88. Chicago Anthony Fasano, TE Notre Dame
89. Carolina Darnell Bing, DB USC
90. Tampa Bay Willie Reid, WR Fresno St.
91. Cincinnati Stanley McClover, DE Auburn
92. Jacksonville Jerome Harrison, RB Washington St.
93. Atlanta (from DEN) Devin Aromashodu, WR Auburn
94. Indianapolis Dusty Dvoracek, DT Oklahoma
95. Minnesota (from SEA) Le Kevin Smith, DT Nebraska
96. Pittsburgh Brent Hawkins, DE/OLB Illinois St.
97. N.Y. Jets (comp. pick) Roman Harper, DB Alabama
1st Round | 2nd Round | 3rd Round | 4th Round
Fourth-Round Projections
98. Houston James Wyche, DE Syracuse
99. New Orleans Demetrice Webb, CB Florida
100. San Francisco Lawrence Vickers, FB Colorado
101. Oakland Anthony Smith, DB Syracuse
102. Tennessee Leon Washington, RB Florida St.
103. N.Y. Jets Alan Zemaitis, CB Penn St.
104. Green Bay Derrick Martin, CB Wyoming
105. Buffalo Elvis Dumervil, DE Louisville
106. New England (from DET) Guy Whimper, T East Carolina
107. Arizona Fred Matua, G USC
108. Philadelphia David Kirtman, FB USC
109. St. Louis Kevin Boothe, OL Cornell
110. Cleveland DeMario Minter, CB Georgia
111. Baltimore Dion Byrum, CB Ohio
112. Cleveland (from ATL) Rodrique Wright, DT Texas
113. San Diego Babatunde Oshinowo, DT Stanford
114. Miami Zach Strief, T Northwestern
115. Minnesota Miles Austin, WR Monmouth
116. Philadelphia (from DAL) Tarvaris Jackson, QB Alabama St.
117. N.Y. Jets (from KC) Greg Eslinger, C Minnesota
118. New England Derek Hagan, WR Arizona St.
119. Denver (from WSH) Owen Daniels, TE Wisconsin
120. Chicago Freddie Keiaho, LB San Diego St.
121. Carolina Jonathan Scott, T Texas
122. Tampa Bay Brandon Johnson, LB Louisville
123. Cincinnati John McCargo, DT NC State
124. N.Y. Giants Jeremy Trueblood, T Boston College
125. Jacksonville James Anderson, LB Virginia Tech
126. Denver Bernard Pollard, DB Purdue
127. Philadelphia (from IND) Hank Baskett, WR New Mexico
128. Seattle John Torp, P Colorado
129. Pittsburgh Andre Hall, RB South Florida
130. Denver (comp. pick) Jeremy Bloom, WR Colorado
131. Pittsburgh (comp. pick) Daryn Colledge, T Boise St.
132. Baltimore (comp. pick) Rob Sims, G Ohio St.
133. Pittsburgh (comp. pick) Omar Jacobs, QB Bowling Green
What say you Phreak?
So, it'll take until their 6th pick to grab a WR?
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 14, 2006, 07:52:23 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 14, 2006, 08:45:58 AM
i don't care what Corey Chavous thinks of the Titans 6th round pick, i really don't.
is there anyone more arrogant and pompous than jon jansen on that shtein...i dont care what either have to say but at least chavous comes off as someone just having fun doing something he loves...jansen is just a fleshpop
i really dont care what anyone has to say except mel...number one he has seen more of the picks than all the other guys combined and number two his delivery and verbage are impeccable...mel is god
Mike Vrabel is worse than Jansen. I forget who he was blasting last year (might've been Mo Clarett) but he bit into someone and sounded like a total dick doing it.
that was the DT from Northwestern who used Steroids. Castillo, i think.
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on April 15, 2006, 11:49:22 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet:
Kiper's first four rounds (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2405172)
What say you Phreak?
So, it'll take until their 6th pick to grab a WR?
We won't need one, we'll have Walker. ;D
I would like DeMeco if our D line was better at eating.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 16, 2006, 01:10:40 AM
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on April 15, 2006, 11:49:22 PM
Not sure if this has been posted yet:
Kiper's first four rounds (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=2405172)
What say you Phreak?
So, it'll take until their 6th pick to grab a WR?
We won't need one, we'll have Walker. ;D
I am sooooooo hoping that is true.
I think that Winston Justice will be gone by 14. I have a feeling that Buffalo will end up taking him. Now, if the Eagles do take him I wouldn't mind it at all. But I think they might have to trade up for him, which I wouldn't like. If he goes off the board because Buffalo did take him, then it means (likely) that one of the top two DTs will slide a little.
I don't think Wroten lasts to the 3rd round. But if he did and they took him it would be a steal. I think he's a round 2 guy. Possibly to BUF at 42 if they take Justice in round 1.
I am not a Hank Baskett fan at all. Give me Greg Jennings, Jeff Webb or Brandon Marshall at WR in that area of the draft.
Kirtman is an interesting pick. Would I like it? Yes because it means bye-bye Parry. But would Andy take a FB that high when they seem to love Tapeh? I dunno. They might take one but later on. And I think the top of the 4th is too high for a FB.
I could live with this Kiper mock. I agree with you phreak in that I have a hard time seeing Wroten falling to the third. That QB from Alabama St. is supposedly a freak and is climbing the draft boards like it's nobody's business.
Baskett 6-2 224. Impressive size but apparently no speed.
I don't think Wroten lasts to the 3rd round. But if he did and they took him it would be a steal
exactly what i first thought upon seeing that mock
Quote from: Don Ho on April 16, 2006, 04:41:15 AM
I could live with this Kiper mock. I agree with you phreak in that I have a hard time seeing Wroten falling to the third. That QB from Alabama St. is supposedly a freak and is climbing the draft boards like it's nobody's business.
Baskett 6-2 224. Impressive size but apparently no speed.
Tarvaris Jackson has a cannon. I havent seen much of him but last night on Sportscenter they said he could have the strongest arm in the draft.
I hate Baskett. He has pretty bad hands too.
If you're going to take a wide receiver in that round why not go with Orr from Wisconsin. That guy has a hell of a lot more upside than Baskett does.
I got really really drunk last night. Orr is dreamy.
Quote from: NGM on April 16, 2006, 04:03:30 PM
If you're going to take a wide receiver in that round why not go with Orr from Wisconsin. That guy has a hell of a lot more upside than Baskett does.
Quote from: NGM on April 16, 2006, 04:04:16 PM
If you are going to take a WR in that round why not go with Orr from Wisconsin? He has a hell of a lot more upside than Baskett.
If ur gonna take a wideout in that round why not get Orr from Wisconsin? He has hella more upside than Baskett.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 16, 2006, 05:18:00 PM
Quote from: NGM on April 16, 2006, 04:03:30 PM
If you're going to take a wide receiver in that round why not go with Orr from Wisconsin. That guy has a hell of a lot more upside than Baskett does.
Quote from: NGM on April 16, 2006, 04:04:16 PM
If you are going to take a WR in that round why not go with Orr from Wisconsin? He has a hell of a lot more upside than Baskett.
If ur gonna take a wideout in that round why not get Orr from Wisconsin? He has hella more upside than Baskett.
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned Orr from Wisconsin yet.
Id rather they took Williams from Wisconsin.
Quote from: Don Ho on April 16, 2006, 05:35:58 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 16, 2006, 05:18:00 PM
Quote from: NGM on April 16, 2006, 04:03:30 PM
If you're going to take a wide receiver in that round why not go with Orr from Wisconsin. That guy has a hell of a lot more upside than Baskett does.
Quote from: NGM on April 16, 2006, 04:04:16 PM
If you are going to take a WR in that round why not go with Orr from Wisconsin? He has a hell of a lot more upside than Baskett.
If ur gonna take a wideout in that round why not get Orr from Wisconsin? He has hella more upside than Baskett.
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned Orr from Wisconsin yet.
The thing about Baskett is that he doesn't have as much upside as a guy like Orr from Wisconsin. We might as well take him if we're gonna take a WR in that round.
Pat Kirwan's two round mock from NFL.com:
Quote
(April 15, 2006) -- This is my first of three mock drafts that I will create for NFL.com leading up to the draft at the end of the month. I will assume that there will be no pre-draft trades that could change the decision making along the way. I will combine the activity in free agency, the needs of the teams, and the grades of the players as draft boards start to take shape.
1. Houston: Reggie Bush, RB, USC
Bush is a once-in-a-decade player and a matchup nightmare. He had 38 touchdowns in three years at USC.
2. New Orleans: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
He could move down but a 10-year starter is too hard to resist. The Saints traded Wayne Gandy, a starter at tackle last season, to Atlanta.
3. Tennessee: Matt Leinart, QB, USC
Leinart threw for more touchdown passes in college than Vince Young and Jay Cutler combined. He also knows the Titans' offense, having played under coordinator Norm Chow at USC.
4. N.Y. Jets: Mario Williams, DE, N.C. State
Williams can replace John Abraham, who was traded this offseason. He reminds new coach Eric Mangini of the Patriots' Richard Seymour and can play in either the 3-4 or 4-3.
5. Green Bay: Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
Having Ngata in the middle makes Green Bay defensive ends Aaron Kampman and Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila better. Ngata stops the run and has a rare combination of size and speed.
6. San Francisco: Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
A young quarterback like Alex Smith always needs a tight end to be effective and Davis can provide major matchup problems.
7. Oakland: Vince Young, QB, Texas
Aaron Brooks signed a two-year deal with the Raiders, but owner Al Davis likes Young's upside. Randy Moss could make a perfect partner.
8. Buffalo: Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State
The best under tackle for the new 'Dungy' defense, Bunkley has a talent that is hard to find.
9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas
The safest pick in the draft, Huff can play either cornerback or safety. He is a leader and a Matt Millen-type player.
10. Arizona: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
Kurt Warner is old and brittle and Cutler is Brett Favre-like. He's still two years away, though.
11. St. Louis: A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State
Hawk should have been gone by now but will become a cornerstone for Jim Haslett's defense.
12. Cleveland: Kamerion Wimbley, DE, Florida State
Wimbley is the perfect fit for the 3-4 defense and reminds general manager Phil Savage of Peter Boulware, who Savage helped draft in Baltimore.
13. Baltimore: Winston Justice, OT, USC
The Ravens can use Justice at right tackle until Jonathan Ogden retires.
14. Philadelphia: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
The Eagles failed to land Eric Moulds and released Terrell Owens, so they could use Jackson right away.
15. Denver: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
The Broncos can trade Ashley Lelie right after this pick.
16. Miami: Ernie Sims, OLB, Florida State
Sims is a tackling machine and replaces Junior Seau on the Dolphins defense.
17. Minnesota: Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
Greenway has a high character, the type of player that new coach Brad Childress wants on the team.
18. Dallas: Manny Lawson, LB, N.C. State
Lawson is the perfect complement to DeMarcus Ware.
19. San Diego: Jimmy Williams, DB, Virginia Tech
Williams can be a corner or safety and the Chargers need to replace Sammy Davis in the secondary.
20. Kansas City: Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State
Cromartie is a tremendous athlete and has had excellent workouts. The Chiefs really need to focus on defense in the draft.
21. New England: DeMeco Ryans, OLB, Alabama
The Patriots replace Willie McGinest with Ryans, a highly productive linebacker.
22. Denver: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
The Broncos got the wide receiver earlier in the draft and the running back completes their first round.
23. Tampa Bay: Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College
Kiwanuka can learn for a year behing Simeon Rice. He had 34 sacks in college.
24. Cincinnati: Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State
Bengals center Rich Braham is 36 years old and in the last year of his contract.
25. N.Y. Giants: Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
The son of former Giants running back Rob Carpenter, he is a versatile linebacker than can fill two needs.
26. Chicago: Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
This pick could change if the Bears acquire a cornerback in free agency.
27. Carolina: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
With Stephen Davis gone, the Panthers need a back to complement DeShaun Foster.
28. Jacksonville: Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State
A slow time in the 40-yard dash drops Hali, but he could be used replace Paul Spicer.
29. N.Y. Jets: Eric Winston, OT, Miami
The Jets missed out on Ferguson earlier and left tackle is a top need.
30. Indianapolis: Thomas Howard, OLB, Texas-El Paso
USC running back LenDale White is there but the Colts also lost linebacker David Thornton.
31. Seattle: Davin Joseph, G, Oklahoma: Joseph is an immediate replacement for Steve Hutchinson.
32. Pittsburgh: Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas: White looks tempting, but Wright answers a bigger need.
Second Round
The second round looks as good as half of the first round and teams can really satisfy some of their pressing needs with players capable of making an early impact. Of course, some of the players selected in the first round could easily fall to the second round and a few of the following players could be taken in the first round.
33. Houston: Marcus McNeil, OT, Auburn
34. New Orleans: Johnathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina
35. N.Y. Jets: Andrew Whitworth, OT, Louisiana State
36. Green Bay: Roger McIntosh, OLB, Miami
37. San Francisco: Jason Allen, DB, Tennessee
38. Oakland: Claude Wroten, DT, Louisiana State
39. Tennessee: Abdul Hodge, ILB, Iowa
40. Detroit: Kelly Jennings, CB, Miami
41. Arizona: Darnell Bing, S, USC
42. Buffalo: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State
43. Cleveland: Gabe Watson, DT, Michigan
44. Baltimore: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
45. Philadelphia: LenDale White, RB, USC
46. St. Louis: Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA
47. Atlanta: Deuce Lutui, G, USC
48. Minnesota: Anthony Fasano, TE, Notre Dame
49. Dallas: Pat Watkins, FS, Florida State
50. San Diego: Sinorice Moss, WR, Miami
51. Minnesota: Brodie Croyle, QB, Alabama
52. New England: Brian Calhoun, RB, Wisconsin
53. Washington: Ray Edwards, DE, Purdue
54. Kansas City: Donte Whitner, SS, Ohio State
55. Cincinnati: Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia
56. N.Y. Giants: Jon Scott, OT, Texas
57. Chicago: Joe Klopfenstein, TE, Colorado
58. Carolina: Max Jean-Gilles, G, Georgia
59. Tampa Bay: Daniel Bullocks, S, Nebraska
60. Jacksonville: Joseph Addai, RB, Louisiana State
61. Denver: Dominique Byrd, TE, USC
62. Indianapolis: Jerious Norwood, RB, Mississippi State
63. Seattle: Jon Alston, OLB, Stanford
64. Pittsburgh: Maurice Stoval, WR, Notre Dame
LenDale White falling to 45 ???
I don't think LenDale falling to 45 is nearly as weird as the Eagles going WR/RB in rounds 1 & 2.
Also, A.J. Hawk falling to #11? Jeez. I'd hope the Eagles could move up and get him to start him at SAM.
I think if Hawk falls past Detroit, Cleveland is trying to move up with a quickness to get him.
I'll be pretty heated if the Eagles go their 1st 2 picks without addressing the defense.
funny how Chad Jackson keeps falling to the Eagles on almost every mock. Nobody thinks the Ravens need help at the WR spot with a 9 year vet?
Quote from: reese125 on April 17, 2006, 01:04:48 PM
funny how Chad Jackson keeps falling to the Eagles on almost every mock. Nobody thinks the Ravens need help at the WR spot with a 9 year vet?
No.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 17, 2006, 12:26:38 PM
I don't think LenDale falling to 45 is nearly as weird as the Eagles going WR/RB in rounds 1 & 2.
Also, A.J. Hawk falling to #11? Jeez. I'd hope the Eagles could move up and get him to start him at SAM.
I really think Hawk could be one of the guys that falls a bit, although the 11 spot may be a bit nuts. I don't think it would be because his stock is dropping (it isn't), but it's just one of those deals where the teams may go on what they consider more pressing needs at the time.
couldn't the steelers use a beefy RB since the bus is gone?
now theres some insight and wisdom with the Ravens WR answer....wheeew...thanks Phanin
Quote from: reese125 on April 17, 2006, 01:39:18 PM
now theres some insight and wisdom with the Ravens WR answer....wheeew...thanks Phanin
I doubt the Ravens would go WR that high after signing Mason to a big deal last year and drafting Clayton. So I would agree with DC on this one.
Ravens have too many other holes that they'll be able to fill with higher-rated players than Jackson or Holmes.
If Lendale is available with our 2nd round pick, I think we have to take him. That is going under the assumption that we take a defensive player with our first. A Bunkley or Lawson with Lendale in the 2nd would make me moist.
Quote from: phattymatty on April 17, 2006, 02:10:52 PM
That is going under the assumption that we take a defensive player with our first.
I'd be OK with them taking Justice in the 1st and then LenDale in the 2nd. More beef for the offense.
But going WR/RB in the first two rounds is just not going to happen.
Earth to Pat Kerwin, earth to Pat Kerwin. Come in.
This is from The Sporting News
QuoteIt's no secret the team is attempting to move into the top 10, with an eye on Oregon DT Haloti Ngata. If that does not happen, and the first 13 picks go as expected, the team could move out of the spot, get a defensive tackle or an offensive lineman later in the round and acquire additional picks. There also is a chance the team could trade a pick or two (it has three fourth-round selections) to Green Bay for disgruntled WR Javon Walker.
Nothing groundbreaking there but something to read.
Eckel is a direct contributor to TSN, and he's the one who "broke" the Ngata rumor.
Not a coincidence.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 17, 2006, 04:53:35 PM
Eckel is a direct contributor to TSN, and he's the one who "broke" the Ngata rumor.
Not a coincidence.
Yeah he is almost always the source for Eagles news in that magazine. His past aside he is seldom way off when it comes to the stuff he says in The Sporting News.
That makes no sense. He usually reports his stuff to TSN paraphrased from his Trenton Times garbage.
Thats not how I understood it but you could be right.
I heard a mock on NFL radio that had them taking Bobby Carpenter in the first, I would really like for them to get him at the SAM but they would have to trade down.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 17, 2006, 05:57:35 PM
I heard a mock on NFL radio that had them taking Bobby Carpenter in the first, I would really like for them to get him at the SAM but they would have to trade down.
I couldn't understand why they did all the picks then let some random caller from Delaware do the Eagles selection. Made no sense and Carpenter at 14 would be an awful selection.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 17, 2006, 05:57:35 PM
I heard a mock on NFL radio that had them taking Bobby Carpenter in the first, I would really like for them to get him at the SAM but they would have to trade down.
Correct Drunk, birds would have to trade down if interested in Carpenter. No way he goes 14 although he is a stud. Was very impressive last year until he busted up his foot near the end of the season. I like him a lot more than Greenway. I like this pick.
His old man beat down the birds as a Giant RB in the 1981 Wild Card game at the Vet. Wore those big black Playtex looking gloves and just bowled the birds D over like ceramic bowling pins.
i laugh whenever i see mock drafts that go past the first round
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 17, 2006, 08:08:02 PM
i laugh whenever i see mock drafts that go past the first round
Mock drafts period make me seek out high cliffs.
so who's the consensus pick for mr irrelevant?
Marcus Vick :fire
I had a brainstorm this morning... I think the Eagles spot could be hotly-contested for teams looking to add one of the top WR's in the draft. Most mocks have no WR's off the board until at least #14. Now, unless the Eagles are absolutely in love with Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes (which I doubt highly), they are looking at NO LESS THAN 3 of the next 5 picking teams really needing help at WR. In fact, a case could be made for all 5:
#15: Denver. Rod Smith has maybe a year or two as a decent player left in him, but he's no longer a stud #1 as is. Ashley Lelie is not panning out to be a reliable player, either. Sure, they could be assured to add one of the top two guys at #15 if both are on the board at #14, but what if they really want Jackson? What would they conceivably give up just to move up one spot? And if the Eagles do slide down to #15, are the same teams still looking to move up ahead of the others to get Santonio Holmes?
#16: Miami. Some think the Fins are looking DB, possibly Tye Hill. However, it is no secret they would like to add some punch opposite Chris Chambers and that they are working out Jackson and Holmes extensively. They could certainly try to jump ahead of Denver, and their 3rd round pick is better, too.
#17: Minnesota. It's kind of a mystery what the Vikings really want to do. Obviously, they'd have already traded up if they wanted to get one of the big 3 QB's. However, if they're still sitting here, are they really thinking LB as many have guessed? Or are they trying to fill the holes left by the departures of Randy Moss and Nate Burleson in back-to-back years?
#18: Dallas. Even since the addition of T.O., pundits believe that Dallas will have to add talent to their WR's of the future, with Glenn aging and T.O. likely not having a shelf life of more than a year or two before something goes wrong. Do they suck it up and make a deal with a divisional rival? They did last year to get Chris Canty, but in the later rounds. Still, they are probably the least likely trade partner, because they'd have to overpay to get the Eagles to give them what they want.
#19: San Diego. McCardell had a solid season last year, but he's not getting younger. They also lost Reche Caldwell to free agency. Sure, they traded for Rashaun Woods, but does that mean anything? I say no. I say they want a WR, and they want one pretty bad.
Hell, even the Chiefs at #20 could want to make a move for a WR... but they'd have to give up something else besides their 3rd rounder to do so. Maybe a pick next year also?
Anyway, I think the Eagles will be able to trade down fairly easily.
P.S. Of the teams mentioned, here is where they're picking in the 3rd round:
Dallas - #16 (80 overall)
San Diego - #17 (81 overall)
Miami - #18 (82 overall)
Minnesota - #19 (83 overall)
Kansas City - #21 (85 overall)
Denver - #29 (93 overall)
You make great cases Patt, and thats one hell of a brainstorm. Amazing what coffee can do huh? but the only ones I see there are the biggest in San Diego and possibly Dallas---but they need more help in defense and I think they go Lawson.
I think Denver seriously considers Lendale White and makes him a star as they do in their system, and amongst all the critics bashing. No secret--they make a very serious run at Javon Walker
MIami, I think they are taking Ernie Sims because they are extremely high on him and the way he fits in their defensive system.
Minny, is still young at WR and already has Koren Robinson, Travis Taylor and Troy Williamson (who I think will have a great year)
i cant see them providing dallas...a division rival...with another wr unless they get blown away with an offer than cant refuse
I think Denver could get LenDale at #22 if they really want him.
But obviously, it could be argued that any of those teams aren't looking WR... or that the Eagles wouldn't trade out of that spot because they really want a WR. Will the damn draft just get here already? Argh.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 18, 2006, 09:38:34 AM
i cant see them providing dallas...a division rival...with another wr unless they get blown away with an offer than cant refuse
Well, Dallas does have the best pick in the 3rd round, and as the Eagles have worked out both Jackson and Holmes, it could be that they feel they are deeply screwing the Cowboys by allowing them to select one of those guys.
they have no idea how good holmes or jackson is going to be...they may have the opinion that neither will pan out but theres always the chance that they will become a star....and thats the problem...its very hard to pull the trigger on a deal that potentially is going to give a division rival a great wr for the next ten years
its one thing to trade them a center or a defensive tackle...but a guy that could be doing dances in the linc endzone next year makes a deal like that very nerve racking to pull off
No doubt. But I still think they do it if other trade partners aren't coming forth, the top of their board of available guys is crowded with near-equal grades, and the Cowboys make the offer. When it comes down to it, you have to look at what makes the most sense for your football team beyond what hurts the other team.
Some guys that could be available in the #80 range include Rodrique Wright, Kyle Williams, Jonathan Orr, Maurice Stovall, Devin Hester, Jonathan Scott, Ryan O'Callaghan, and yes, even Rocky McIntosh could fall into the 3rd.
If the Eagles could probably take the same player they'd take at #14 at #18 and pick up a guy like some of the one's I've named also... it would be a good deal, even if Chad Jackson ends up dancing in the end zone at the Linc.
yeah im not saying it would never happen....but imo it would cost dallas significantly more to move up to their spot than it would a san diego
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 18, 2006, 10:18:29 AM
yeah im not saying it would never happen....but imo it would cost dallas significantly more to move up to their spot than it would a san diego
Probably, yes. If Dallas is offering #18 and #80, and San Diego is offering #19 and #81, the Eagles probably go for option B. Of course, then they're picking directly behind Dallas... but...
I don't fricking know. 11 days.
There are the following rumors this morning--
1)According to the Denver Post, the Broncos are seriously thinking about swapping their Nos. 15 and 22 plus a player, thought to be Ashlie Lelie for the Packers' No.5 pick so they can choose Vernon Davis.
2)According to the DFW papers, the Cowboys are mulling a serious trade up to the No.8 spot for Michael Huff. I mean, what does Parcells care? He probably won't be there next year and he wants to win NOW.
3)The Panthers at 27 are hot after Lendale White. Both DeShaun Foster and Eric Shelton have serious health issues. Supposedly, also, the Panthers coaches ENCOURAGED WHITE NOT TO RUN at his Pro Day, saying there was enough game film on him to garner an opinion.
I've done a lot of mocks, looking at some possibilities for the Birds, and in almost every one, I have them trading down--mostly because to trade up, it would be prohibitive in cost. I did have them trading down with Denver to 22, in exchange for 22, 61, and 126. Now, if the Broncos-Packers trade goes through, I think the Panthers would like to trade up, giving the Eagles 27, 58, and 121.
The Eagles then could draft--
27. Carpenter
37. Wroten (with a trade of 45 and 108)
51. Jean Gilles (with a trade of 58 and 116) or perhaps the best OT left on the board
76. They could package this pick and a conditional 4th to GB for Javon Walker. It would become a 3rd if Walker lead the Eagles in catches, yards, or TDs.
bobby, while I think predicting multiple trades in advance starts to get a little silly, you make some OK points.
What I do want to know is what the Cowboys could possibly offer the Bills to get from #18 to #8? I suppose they'd offer a 1st rounder next year and the 2nd rounder this year, or something of the ilk?
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 18, 2006, 10:39:37 AM
bobby, while I think predicting multiple trades in advance starts to get a little silly, you make some OK points.
What I do want to know is what the Cowboys could possibly offer the Bills to get from #18 to #8? I suppose they'd offer a 1st rounder next year and the 2nd rounder this year, or something of the ilk?
That's about what I was thinking. Seems like that's too big of a jump to make
without the 2007 1st rounder. Unless Parcells is planning on pulling a Ditka.
as far as Denver goes, I think they go offense with both of their first round picks, taking one RB (either DeAngelo Williams or Lendale White) and WR (either Holmes or Jackson) and I think they can stand pat where they're at and get one of each.
Oh, I agree that they could. But if they are in love with Jackson over Holmes and find out that Miami is interested in making a move to the Eagles' pick, then they could try to outbid them in one way or another.
Updated Mock from Draft Daddy.......christ.....I can't wait until next weekend.... :-\
Quote
==
01. Houston Texans - RB Reggie Bush, Southern Cal
The 'President' leads this field due to upside. If used properly, an instant impact player.
==
02. N.O. Saints - OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Virginia
Saints will try to trade down - they say Jammal Brown will play LT, we'll see.
==
03. Tennessee Titans - QB Matt Leinart, Southern Cal
Leinart and Norm Chow reunite and give the Titans a plan for the future of the QB position.
==
04. N.Y. Jets - QB Jay Cutler, Vanderbilt
Cutler has no problem as an underdog, plus tools to deal with the windy Meadowlands.
==
05. G.B. Packers - DE Mario Williams, North Carolina State
Super Mario has the skillset of a #1 overall pick: 4.6 40 at 295, an impact pass rusher.
==
06. S.F. 49ers - LB A.J. Hawk, Ohio State
Nolan needs a leader for the defense, Hawk brings that and is a pro-ready addition.
==
07. Oakland Raiders - DT Haloti Ngata, Oregon
Oakland's defensive line has gotten old, Ngata is a freakish athlete and the Best Available Player.
==
08. Buffalo Bills - TE Vernon Davis, Maryland
Marv Levy likes to use multiple TE sets and Davis is the most explosive receiving threat in the draft.
==
09. Detroit Lions - CB Michael Huff, Texas
Dynamic athlete who had really fast times. Huff has proven he can be a CB and the Lions need more.
==
10. Arizona Cardinals - QB Vince Young, Texas
Young gives the QB-hungry Cards excitement, Denny Green welcomes him with open arms.
==
11. St. Louis Rams - DT Broderick Bunkley, Florida State, Texas
The Rams front four isn't nasty enough, Bunkley is the man for that job.
==
12. Cleveland Browns - DE Manny Lawson, North Carolina State
Quality pass rusher with sprinter's speed, a real playmaker who will contribute right away in Romeo's 3-4.
==
13. Baltimore Ravens - CB Tye Hill, Clemson
The Ravens Super-unit needs fresh blood to stay on top, Hill is a natural for the new bump and run rules.
==
14. Philadelphia Eagles - DT Gabe Watson, Michigan
Watson is a true run-stopper and the Eagles simply have to get better in that phase of the game.
==
15. Denver Broncos - WR Chad Jackson, Florida (via ATL)
After his display at Combine, Jackson is the choice to add options to the Broncos' passing attack.
==
16. Miami Dolphins - FS Jason Allen, Tennessee
Fully recovered from injuries, Allen is a top coverage player who can play lock down his deep half and ball hawk.
==
17. Minnesota Vikings - RB DeAngelo Williams, Memphis
Possibly one of the least risky picks of the first round, Williams is a sure-fire franchise back at the next level.
==
18. Dallas Cowboys - OT Marcus McNeil, Auburn
If this man mountain falls, Parcells and Jones will be thrilled. After 5.07 40 at Indy, he could go higher.
==
19. S.D. Chargers - OT Winston Justice, Southern Cal
Chargers usually don't draft OL high but Justice is a top QB protector and an elite athlete.
==
20. K.C. Chiefs - DE Kamerion Wimbley, Florida State
Speedy edge rusher gets upfield in a hurry, the KC pass rush has to get better.
==
21. New England - LB Chad Greenway, Iowa
If Greenway falls this far (and he could after his workout), the Pats are thrilled: instinctual player who plays faster than he times.
==
22. Denver Broncos - RB Lendale White, Southern Cal
Explosive play-maker White comes from a great USC pedigree and gives the Colts star power in the running game.
==
23. Tampa Bay Bucs - LB Ernie Sims, Florida State
Sims is undersized but can take over a game, becomes the heir apparent to Derrick Brooks.
==
24. Cincinnati Bengals - DT John McCargo, NC State
Blazing times on campus workouts is talented one-gap penetrator at 4-3 under tackle.
==
25. NY Giants - LB Bobby Carpenter, Ohio State
Underrated son of a pro player, Carpenter can bring the pain on blitz; some scouts are more impressed with Carpenter than Hawk.
==
26. Chicago Bears - CB Antonio Cromartie, Florida State
Cro was an elite talent before the injury; the Bears have a sour taste in their mouth from their DB's performance in the playoffs.
==
27. Carolina Panthers - TE Leonard Pope, Georgia
Pope is a serious red zone and over-the-middle threat in the passing game - a security blanket target for Delhomme.
==
28. Jacksonville Jaguars - LB Demeco Ryans, Alabama
Ryans doesn't have the most amazing measurables but he will be an impact leader for this defensive unit.
==
29. New York Jets - OC Nick Mangold, Ohio State (via ATL, via DEN)
The Jets luck out and replace Kevin Mawae with the best center prospect in the draft. Mangold has had a terrific off-season.
==
30. Indianapolis Colts, - RB Joseph Addai, Louisiana State (via WAS)
Great hands out of the backfield compliment this player's skillset and the Colts offense without Edge.
==
31. Seattle Seahawks - OT Eric Winston, Miami
A top 5 player before the ACL, Winston has looked strong - can start at RT and the Hawks can move Locklear back to guard.
==
32. Pittsburgh Steelers - WR Santonio Holmes, Ohio State
Provides the deep explosive home-run threat that the Steelers need to help replace the production of Burress and Randle-El.
Sent them a note about LenDale to the BronColts.
You should also send them a note that not only were the Eagles better at stopping the run last year than they'd been in many years, but they also don't value "run-stuffers" in the first place. So, there's no way in hell they'd draft Watson with the 14th overall pick.
Not that they'd care, but they should know their mock is a huge pile of scrotal tissue.
Listening to EPSN Radio (the Herd). For the second year in a row, he's had callers on to talk about the NFL prospects. Instead of giving praise and being a complete homer, he had people on to talk about negatives regarding the big names.
Here's a Cliff Notes version of what i can remember:
Haloti Ngata - Not a leader. Often Hurt.
Chad Jackson - Disappears in big games. Doesn't like to go across the middle.
Chad Greenway - Not as sure of a tackler as they say.
AJ Hawk - troubles taking on blocks.
Gabe Watson - Fat. (can't remember what else)
There were plenty others, but nothing really felt Eagles worthy. Oh, and Brodie Croyle apparently has no shot at being an NFL QB.
It does suck. Although I wouldn't be to pissed if they did go with Watson.....just not at 14.
One thing I was wondering about this was with McNeil, whatever happened to the guy? I remember around combine time that he had a lot of potential, and was huge, then he just kind of fell off the map. In this mock they have him going ahead of Justice, which is probably wrong as hell, but anyone have any scoop on McNeil?
Some stuff from AR in USA Today's "Inside Slant":
Quote
Inside Slant
Andy Reid always has believed that NFL wars are won and lost in the trenches.
"That's where it starts," the Eagles coach has repeatedly said. "Up front. If the playoffs showed one thing, it's that you better be solid on both sides of the ball up front. (If) you do that, you'll usually be OK."
That philosophy probably will guide the Eagles on April 29 when they're on the clock in the first round of the NFL draft. The Eagles currently own the 14th overall pick, and all indications are that they will use that pick on either an offensive or defensive lineman.
The Eagles' past three first-round picks have been linemen — defensive end Jerome McDougle in 2003, guard Shawn Andrews in '04 and defensive tackle Mike Patterson in '05.
Their top free agent signing this off-season was defensive end Darren Howard, who should improve a pass rush that notched just 29 sacks last season. But they still feel they need to improve their four-man defensive tackle rotation.
Patterson showed promise as a rookie, but veteran right tackle Darwin Walker played poorly. Hollis Thomas is an OK run-stopper, but he gets no inside push on the quarterback and probably won't be back. Their other DT, Sam Rayburn, is a hard-working, blue-collar type who battled injuries most of last season.
The top defensive tackle on the Eagles' draft board, as well as that of just about every other NFL team, is Oregon's 6-4, 338-pound Haloti Ngata. The Eagles think the mammoth Ngata would be a terrific complement to Patterson, who is a quick, one-gap penetrator.
Trouble is, Ngata isn't expected to still be on the board at No. 14. The Eagles likely would have to trade up five or six spots to get him.
Two other DTs the Eagles have rated high are Florida State's Brodrick Bunkley and Michigan's Gabe Watson. The 6-3 1/2, 339-pound Watson is a similar type two-gap player to Ngata. Bunkley is too much like Patterson.
The Eagles had the draft's two top-rated offensive tackles, Virginia's D'Brickashaw Ferguson and USC's Winston Justice, in for visits this week. With left tackle Tra Thomas coming off of major back surgery and right tackle Jon Runyan in the twilight of his career, that is definitely a need.
If the Eagles want Ferguson, they're going to have to engineer a dramatic move up, since he figures to be a top-five pick. Justice, though, probably still will be on the board at 14.
NOTES, QUOTES
—Running back Correll Buckhalter, who has missed three of the last four seasons with major knee injuries — including the last two with a torn patellar tendon — is hopeful of making a comeback next season. The 6-0, 222-pounder is only 27. He averaged 4.3 yards per carry and had eight rushing touchdowns in 2003 when he rotated with Duce Staley and Brian Westbrook. "That's one of those we've-got-to-see categories," coach Andy Reid said. "People just haven't done that, haven't come back from something like that. But Correll's doing great. He's doing better now than he was before the last surgery."
—Tight end L.J. Smith tied for the team lead in receptions last season with 61 catches, but was often criticized for his poor blocking. But Reid insists he is not concerned about that aspect of Smith's game. "I didn't think he was bad last year in the blocking game," he said. "I didn't see that, as we went through the cuts, as one of (his) weaknesses, really."
—Coach Andy Reid admitted offensive coordinator Brad Childress handled most of the play-calling in the second half of last season. Childress left to become the head coach at Minnesota and was replaced by Marty Mornhinweg. Will Reid let Mornhinweg do a lot of the play-calling next season? "I just kind of go on the flow," Reid said. "If things aren't going the way I like them (to), I'll give somebody else a shot at the plays."
QUOTE TO NOTE: "They're different personalities. Brad is a little more high-strung. Marty's a little more laid-back." - Eagles coach Andy Reid on the differences between former offensive coordinator Brad Childress and his replacement, Marty Mornhinweg.
Just what this offense needs... a more laid-back coordinator. :paranoid
Interesting that they say the Eagles have Gabe Watson high on their board and that they're actually looking for a bigger guy to complement Patterson. I wonder if Reid actually shared that or if it's speculation, because they intimate that it's the former (that he actually shared it). I kind of doubt he'd really hint at that.
I know it's Peter King, but this nugget has truth written all over it.
From here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cnnsi-marketfallout&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns).
Quote
2. I think you should believe nothing you read that comes out of a general manager's mouth in the next 12 days. And I mean nothing. Not that they're lying. And I mean that. It's just that it does a general manager no good to say with certainty and honesty what he plans to do and what exactly he thinks of a player entering the draft.
Well, except for Washington, who decided to trade for that #25 pick well in advance last year and basically told everyone that would listen that they were doing it because they were enamored with Jason Campbell.
But, really, this should be discussed on the P&L at the skins thread.
Wroten is a stud, and I'd love him.
But I'm going to be biting my mails until our next pick hoping no one takes him early. I might actually prefer Wroten over Ngata or Bunkley, simply for the fact that we could get him at a value, and still take a stud at 14 that would help us, because Wroten might be the most talented and best DT in this draft. The character issues are obviously what weighs him down.
Well, you'd think the Eagles have both Wroten and Kyle Williams thoroughly scouted, seeing as their new DL coach's most recent position was at LSU.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 18, 2006, 02:28:17 PM
Interesting that they say the Eagles have Gabe Watson high on their board and that they're actually looking for a bigger guy to complement Patterson. I wonder if Reid actually shared that or if it's speculation, because they intimate that it's the former (that he actually shared it). I kind of doubt he'd really hint at that.
I don't know if it's true or not, but I damn sure wouldn't mind it. Like I said before, I'd love to see him clogging the middle and commanding double teams allowing Patterson to get loose in the middle and preventing QB's from stepping up to avoid Kearse and Howard on the edges. Similar skill set to Ngata... difference is where we'd likely lose picks going after Ngata, we'd likely gain picks for Watson... assuming we don't take him at 14... which is too high IMO.
If Ngata is gone... Watson or Wroten for that matter, are helluva plan B's in my mind.
Wroten to me is the same deal as Bunkley. I would be okay with it if the Eagles got one or the other, but I would be much more happy if they went Ngata or Watson. Wroten is what? 6'2? 290-300? From what I have read, he is a great one-gap tackle, but is somewhat poor against the run and gets owned by bigger lineman (at the collegiate level). I think the Birds have a long, solid future with Patterson as the one-gap guy, they need someone to eat double teams and clog the run, and if you are going to get that in the first round, there are only two guys available: Ngata or Watson.
The closer it gets to draft day, the more I believe if they add to the DT spot at all, it'll be one of four possible guys (not including guys in the fifth, sixth, or seventh round): Ngata, Watson, Wright, or Oshinowa.
Anyone else tired of hearing:
he's a leader
He's not a leader
blue collar
I am sick of it. It's almost to the point of wanting to punch people sick of it.
Yeah, I am too. They are meaningless in football.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 18, 2006, 06:55:32 PM
Anyone else tired of hearing:
he's a leader
He's not a leader
blue collar
I am sick of it. It's almost to the point of wanting to punch people sick of it.
Guaran-DAMN-teed to become a CF fixture right up there with cash over cap and golden goose.
Those phrases are so last week.
"Point of attack" and "trap game" will never go out of style, though.
mayock is on wip right now and is spitting verbatim what ive been saying re: the birds needing a playmaker on offense more than anything on their team
he says getting lineman is good n all but they have no one to make plays around the lines
only difference is he is pimping holmes rather than moss...because holmes can go at 14 whereas thats obviously to high for moss
on winston justice: takes to many plays off but has pro bowl ability down the line
he also said he heard the banner interview last week....is mayock from philly?...he said banner was 'a good defensive player'
now hes talking about the fact that they need playmakers on defense and says they should get a linebacker to do so...mcintosh and ryans wont be there in the second but howard will
hes killing lendale...wouldnt take him at all...callin him a dog
says the eagles should nab riggs in the 4th
everyone but me probably knew this but he also said that nfl network has gavel to gavel live coverage of the draft ala espn...they will be live at msg with mayock in the mel kiper role
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 08:14:08 AM
is mayock from philly?...
He works near Philly at NFL Films HQ in Mt. Laurel, NJ.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 08:15:40 AM
everyone but me probably knew this but he also said that nfl network has gavel to gavel live coverage of the draft ala espn...they will be live at msg with mayock in the mel kiper role
Yep. You better believe the "PREV" button on my remote will be broken by the end of the weekend.
ill be on mels dick all day saturday...ill dvr the nfl network show and rewatch the eagle picks
sunday ill have the last channel button on a loop
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 08:32:56 AM
ill be on mels dick all day saturday
You can at least give NFLN some love during commercials.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 08:32:56 AM
ill dvr the nfl network show and rewatch the eagle picks
I'll probably do the same.
ill be at a draft party tho...im not trying to take over the tv...cause the minute i do someone will no doubt start bitching
plus i can only take so much of mayocks lisp in one weekend
True. Kiper is cocky about his opinions, but he doesn't come off nearly as smug as Mayock.
Plus, I think Kiper's usually a bit more mainstream, and Mayock takes some more risks (a.k.a. is wrong more).
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 08:14:08 AM
mayock is on wip right now and is spitting verbatim what ive been saying re: the birds needing a playmaker on offense more than anything on their team
he says getting lineman is good n all but they have no one to make plays around the lines
only difference is he is pimping holmes rather than moss...because holmes can go at 14 whereas thats obviously to high for moss
on winston justice: takes to many plays off but has pro bowl ability down the line
he also said he heard the banner interview last week....is mayock from philly?...he said banner was 'a good defensive player'
now hes talking about the fact that they need playmakers on defense and says they should get a linebacker to do so...mcintosh and ryans wont be there in the second but howard will
hes killing lendale...wouldnt take him at all...callin him a dog
says the eagles should nab riggs in the 4th
I wouldn't use such a source to add credibility to an argument, IGY. ;)
I agree about the playmaker bit, but with Tra and Runyan at the end of their careers, picking a guy like Justice, while not exciting, does make a ton of sense at this point. I wouldn't say that they need a playmaker on offense
more than anything else, but they do need one. I would prefer that they get a madman in the linebacker corps, or a seriously mean DE or DT. But if they solidify the offensive line for the foreseeable future by adding a stud tackle, I'd be okay with it.....but bored at the draft party. :-\
right now they need playmakers far more than they need any lineman...thats not even in question...if you want a lineman for in a year or two when runyan and/or tra are gone then i cant really argue that tho i disagree with it being a bigger priority than a playmaking wr
i just found it interesting that his opinion was word for word what mine is...on this topic mike mayock has less credibility than me or you as we watch every eagle game at least once
man, he really killed LenDale, that was painful.
Justice is definitely on my list of Eagles picks that would actually excite me at #14. Trading up for him would concern me a little bit, but I have a feeling they brought him and D'Brick in at the same time for a reason. If they really feel that Justice is a stud OT in the making, I have no qualms. After all, I don't think the OL was great last year as it was, and if Andrews is never moving out to RT, then the Eagles absolutely need another OT of the future. Even if Andrews is going to RT eventually, they've certainly been pimping Herremans as a possible OG or even 6th man type, so maybe that makes Justice the LT of the future.
Either way, I'd at least feel comfortable that the Eagles came out of the 1st round improving the top-shelf talent on the line. IMO, Justice immediately gets plugged in at LG and causes a lot of the fringe/backup guys on the OL to bust their asses to make the team.
That said, I see so many ways in which this team can improve with that pick, both in 2006 and beyond... so I'm pretty open-minded about it. As long as they don't take someone that could certainly be had much later in the round, I'll probably find a way to be excited about it.
One thing I'm fairly certain of is that, as usual, I have no farging idea what the Eagles are going to do in the draft.
again i cant really argue with anything yous are saying...and i would never cheapen the importance of the line...all i will say is this...whats the point of having a good line if a) you dont run the ball and b) the skill players you have for the most part cant get open and when they do they dont make plays
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 09:30:36 AM
whats the point of having a good line if a) you dont run the ball and b) the skill players you have for the most part cant get open and when they do they dont make plays
a) because you need a really good line to stop your QB from getting killed
b) because you need the line to give the QB an above-average amount of time to throw when his targets are guys that struggle to break off the jam and get open
Duh. Hahaha
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 09:26:57 AM
One thing I'm fairly certain of is that, as usual, I have no farging idea what the Eagles are going to do in the draft.
Werd life, son.
The
only stone, cold lock for the draft I would put
money on is that I have no idea who they will pick.
That said, let me assure you all that it will be Haloti Ngata.
how about a good line and very good weapons
rather than a great line and heinous weapons
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 09:34:31 AM
how about a good line and very good weapons
rather than a great line and heinous weapons
I wouldn't say that the Birds have "heinous" weapons. Granted, the aren't sure-fire studs, but Westbrook, Brown, Little John, and to a degree, Gaffney aren't terrible.
If you give McNabb all day to throw the ball, you wind up with a bunch of WRs/RBs/TEs with sick numbers. It's that simple. I would be all for the Eagles getting a playmaker....no doubt, but I think the reason it seems a playmaker is needed so badly is he would make up for a deficiency elsewhere. With Moss you talk about a guy with cat like quickness, who turns a hitch, a screen, or a reverse into a huge gain. With a solid line, McNabb can stand back there, pick his target and deliver an accurate ball downfield, for a big gain.
Problem is there's practically no skill offensive player that would be a major factor for us this year, outside of special teams. Hell, the only reason Reggie had an impact last year was because of TO and injury. I find it hard to believe that a receiver would step in an be a difference-making threat.
If you give McNabb all day to throw the ball, you wind up with a bunch of WRs/RBs/TEs with sick numbers. It's that simple
not true...other than last year hes had plenty of time to throw over his career...yet the only year 'sick' numbers were produced was when they had TO
Problem is there's practically no skill offensive player that would be a major factor for us this year, outside of special teams. Hell, the only reason Reggie had an impact last year was because of TO and injury. I find it hard to believe that a receiver would step in an be a difference-making threat.
would a rook wr come in this year an put up big numbers...probably not...would a bit time threat type player like a holmes or moss...someone who needs to be accounted for on every play make this offense better yes...and in a few years when the player hopefully blossoms into a stud the offense has a dimension that its never had (outside of two years ago)...
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 09:34:31 AM
how about a good line and very good weapons
rather than a great line and heinous weapons
Well, I don't even know if they'll have a "good" line this year. The C/LG hole could be a big issue or could be just fine. Thomas might not be 100%, and Runyan is still great often but is bad with edge rushers (a la DeMarcus Ware, Andre Carter, Osi Umeniyora, etc). They should be "good", but they might not be. Wouldn't hurt to add there still.
However, I agree... they need more ways to attack the defense. As of now, they only have a finesse passing capability and a lot of question marks at WR. Then again, adding a rookie WR doesn't exactly remove the question mark problem at all. Of course, you can't go wrong with a defensive playmaker either. A guy who finds ways to get the defense off the field (ie: Ernie Sims, Wimbley, Huff, et al) would help out.
im not specifically talking about this year...but the overall offensive philosophy that the team has...the fact that the line gets ten times the attention that the skill positions around it...i have no questions about how important the line is but there has to be a balance there and with andy there never is...theyve taken a lot of lineman in the draft the last few years...signed kearse and howard and yet again this year we are all focusing in on DL and OL in the draft...what the hell is going on
does reid ever think that if the defense had to respect some real life wr's and if guys were getting open then maybe the line wouldnt have to be as great...they could hold for three seconds instead of having to lock down for five...the blitzing would lessen as well
as for the defense i see the same problem tho to a lesser degree...they just dont have people out on the field that scare anyone...this changes somewhat this season if howard can regain his form of a few years ago..so yes i agree with you that a sims would be the defensive equivalent to picking holmes and id be very happy
I waffle pretty much daily on Holmes, but I tend to bend to the side of really not wanting him.
im not huge on holmes...im more using him because he will be available and carries a grade to be picked at 14
in my dream world its sims then moss...then take seven straight lineman if you wish
it is strange that they draft as if they had the Steeler's offensive philosophy.
they are a team that loves to throw, yet they don't pay near enough attention to the guys who need to make the plays in the passing game.
Well, in 4 of 6 years between 2000-2005, they used a first-day pick on a WR:
2000 - Todd Pinkston - early 2nd round
2001 - Freddie Mitchell - late 1st round
2003 - Billy McMullen - late 3rd round
2005 - Reggie Brown - early 2nd round
So, I would actually contend that they've made as much effort to get some top-line talent at WR through the draft as could be expected. The problem is that their WR scouting has sucked hairy nutsack, not that they haven't tried.
Well, in 4 of 6 years between 2000-2005, they used a first-day pick on a WR:
2000 - Todd Pinkston - early 2nd round
2001 - Freddie Mitchell - late 1st round
2003 - Billy McMullen - late 3rd round
2005 - Reggie Brown - early 2nd round
i agree to a point...but i ask where is the speed and explosiveness...the playmaking ability in those picks...i dont want just another wr this year in the draft like demetrius williams...i want moss
all their picks are west coast andy reid offense possesion receivers
thats the main problem ive had with andys drafts since the beginning...hes always looking for solid guys...whether it be just making the catch as opposed to breaking the catch for a td....or its being a solid tackler instead of a guy who causes turnovers...its a guy with a high wonderlic who can learn the system not a guy whos gonna go sideline to sideline wrecking shop...a small pass rushing dt instead of a beast who can blow up the interior of a offensive line
im probably missing one or two but theres only been like five guys hes ever picked with thru the roof athleticism...burgess...cole....wynn...milons...
you need both kinds of players...but what really wins games in the nfl is playmakers...sometimes its the difference between getting to conference championship games and winning superbowls...and imo theyve have not had enough of them under andy
Pinkston ran a sub 4.4 40 before the injury.
He's probably closer to 4.7 now.
yeah, well at least he still has his toughness.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 11:38:40 AM
Pinkston ran a sub 4.4 40 before the injury.
With a stiff tailwind.
pinkstons speed is so overrated...hes a stretch the field type player only because all he can do is run go routes...so thats what he became
hes by no means slow or anything...but he certainly isnt a player that you looked at coming out and said damn that cats athleticism is off the charts...youre not going to run him on reverses or try to get him in an open area so he can ankle defenders
It makes me mad that this franchise has surrounded McNabb with such horrible receivers. With the exception of Owens, if the rest of Donovan's career he is surrounded by Pinkston's/Mitchell's/Thrash etc., it will be a real shame. BTW, I don't think Moss or any other WR in this draft is exceptionally special and certainly won't make a difference this year. They are better off going for an OT or DT. Bunkley, Ngata or Justice.
Quote from: EagleFeva on April 19, 2006, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 11:38:40 AM
Pinkston ran a sub 4.4 40 before the injury.
With a stiff tailwind.
You really think the wind affects someone with as little surface area as Pinkston? I'd say he pretty much defines aerodynamic. He cuts through the wind like a knife!
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: EagleFeva on April 19, 2006, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 11:38:40 AM
Pinkston ran a sub 4.4 40 before the injury.
With a stiff tailwind.
You really think the wind affects someone with as little surface area as Pinkston? I'd say he pretty much defines aerodynamic. He cuts through the wind like a knife!
Beyond that his "game speed" wasn't nearly that significant. He is one of the only "deep Threats" that DBs would play press coverage on because he simply couldn't beat them off the jam and was easlily jostled off his route downfield.
How often have we seen Pinkston bihind the defense on a deep route?
I like Pinky the guy has made some plays in his day but he just isn't dynamic or versatile enough to be a real consistant threat to a defense.
Well, no shtein!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 18, 2006, 06:55:32 PM
Anyone else tired of hearing:
he's a leader
He's not a leader
blue collar
I am sick of it. It's almost to the point of wanting to punch people sick of it.
blue collar, blue chipper...upside...i hate them all.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 19, 2006, 11:40:31 AM
yeah, well at least he still has his toughness.
As long as he doesn't look in the general direction of any lights.
apparantly, there is a 7 round mock up on ESPN insider. somebody fetch it for me....now.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 12:03:29 PM
Quote from: EagleFeva on April 19, 2006, 11:42:23 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 11:38:40 AM
Pinkston ran a sub 4.4 40 before the injury.
With a stiff tailwind.
You really think the wind affects someone with as little surface area as Pinkston? I'd say he pretty much defines aerodynamic. He cuts through the wind like a knife!
With parachute pants?
Zubaz!
The 49ers traded their 2nd and 3rd rounders to Denver for #22. Would #6 and #22 be enough for them to move up and get Reggie Bush? It would seem to me that's what they're trying to do.
EDIT: It looks like getting to #2 with those picks would be a stretch, let alone #1.
well the jets have #4 and #29. so which is better in your mind? i say the jets package, but i still think it would take something like the saints/ditka did when he swapped his whole draft for ricky.
Watch Dever now trade a 2 for Javon.
Quote from: pinoyboy2pt0 on April 19, 2006, 01:35:16 PM
Watch Dever now trade a 2 for Javon.
If they want to trade a pick in the 30's for him, more power to them. I'd give up a 3rd with teh quickness, but even #45 is a little steep a price to pay for a guy you can't get a physical on coming off major injury.
I'm just using Shanny logic here. Dante's knee got shreded and went for a 2, and this is "Coach Teflon" we're talking about here. They also have 2 3's (68 & 93).
Quote from: pinoyboy2pt0 on April 19, 2006, 01:54:15 PM
They also have 2 3's (68 & 93).
OK, just realized this myself... I though Denver got the compensatory pick in the 3rd, which was why they still had two 3rd rounders, but the Jets got that 3rd round compensatory pick... so, this page is wrong:
Denver pick tracker (http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/team/DEN)
But this page is right:
3rd round pick tracker, accurately shows #93 to Atlanta (http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/round/round3)
EDIT: ...and now the first link is fixed too. The NFL is farging with my head, man!
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 01:57:16 PM
Quote from: pinoyboy2pt0 on April 19, 2006, 01:54:15 PM
They also have 2 3's (68 & 93).
OK, just realized this myself... I though Denver got the compensatory pick in the 3rd, which was why they still had two 3rd rounders, but the Jets got that 3rd round compensatory pick... so, this page is wrong:
Denver pick tracker (http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/team/DEN)
But this page is right:
3rd round pick tracker, accurately shows #93 to Atlanta (http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/round/round3)
EDIT: ...and now the first link is fixed too. The NFL is farging with my head, man!
At least you did the work. I just looked it up and reported what I saw.
I didn't think compensatory picks were allowed to be traded. ???
Quote from: NGM on April 19, 2006, 02:02:37 PM
I didn't think compensatory picks were allowed to be traded. ???
They're not. I was thinking Denver traded their own 3rd rounder to Atlanta, but acquired the new (and better) 3rd rounder from San Fran, and retained their compensatory pick... but they didn't have a compensatory pick in the 3rd.
They did last year. They used it to select Maurice Clarett.
The trade gives the Broncos better picks than the Birds in both* the third and fourth rounds*, which would trump anything we would offer the Packers pick-wise (no way do the Birds offer more than the value of a third). I don't think it matters, since the Walker talk was/is almost 100% assured to be bullshtein. I seriously doubt the Broncos did this to jockey position for Walker, but the possibility is there I suppose.
*I am FF's bitch.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 19, 2006, 02:23:38 PM
The trade gives the Broncos better picks than the Birds in both the third and fourth rounds
Wrong.
3rd68. Denver
76. Philadelphia
93. Denver
4th108. Philadelphia
116. Philadelphia
119. Denver
126. Denver
127. Philadelphia
130. Denver (compensatory)
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 19, 2006, 02:23:38 PM
The trade gives the Broncos better picks than the Birds in both the third and fourth rounds
Wrong.
3rd
68. Denver
76. Philadelphia
93. Denver
4th
108. Philadelphia
116. Philadelphia
119. Denver
126. Denver
127. Philadelphia
130. Denver (compensatory)
Exactly my point. It gets so old proving you wrong all the time.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 02:27:34 PM
Wrong.
3rd
68. Denver
76. Philadelphia
93. Denver
4th
108. Philadelphia
116. Philadelphia
119. Denver
126. Denver
127. Philadelphia
130. Denver (compensatory)
The point is, if we offer 108 or 116 Denver will offer 93.
Denver does not have better picks in the 4th, so you worded your statement poorly. Very poorly.
P.S. Have you ever actually proved anyone wrong except yourself? No.
It was a joke.
P.S. Go back and look my original post.
P.S.S. Look at when it was edited.
P.S.S.S. I heart you.
I heart you too.
P.S. Sorry, since I turned off avatars, I keep confusing you with Philly Forever. I guess you might want to distinguish your posts from his a little bit better.
P.P.S. Let's see some mocks with San Fran picking at #22!
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 03:05:32 PM
I heart you too.
P.S. Sorry, since I turned off avatars, I keep confusing you with Philly Forever. I guess you might want to distinguish your posts from his a little bit better.
P.P.S. Let's see some mocks with San Fran picking at #22!
Die.
Better now? (http://www.concretefield.com/forum/index.php?topic=18020.msg406635#msg406635)
Yeah, that's what helped end the confusion.
Anyway, a lot of mocks had DeAngelo Williams, Laurence Maroney, or LenDale going to the Broncos at #22, and I suppose it's conceivable that the 49ers could also be looking RB with that pick.
I would imagine the Niners are pretty happy with Barlow and Gore, hell, Hicks isn't terrible. I would think they would go with LB, DE, or a safety in the tenty-two spot. It also allows them to some flex at six as well.
DraftDaddy blurb:
Quote
Breaking News: Trade with the Denver Broncos nets the San Francisco 49ers No. 22 overall pick.
The Niners apparently are angling to pick up one of the top outside linebackers in a linebacker-rich draft at the No. 22 slot with the assumption that Ohio State product A.J. Hawk - generally considered the top linebacker prospect available - will not last past the first five picks.
So maybe the Niners initiated this deal after all.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 19, 2006, 04:38:49 PM
So maybe the Niners initiated this deal after all.
Right, because one draft site thinks so. (Note that they don't even claim that it's anything but a guess.)
Also, as I said before, it doesn't matter who initiated the deal, because obviously both teams had to see value in making the deal for it to happen anyway.
All this is meaningless.
Bottom line: Broncos aren't getting Walker, and the Eagles are.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 19, 2006, 12:27:45 PM
apparantly, there is a 7 round mock up on ESPN insider. somebody fetch it for me....now.
Here you are sir. Only the first round....if you want me to post the rest I can, but it is insanely long. Not updated for today's trade.
Quote
1. Houston Texans (2-14)
Top-five needs: OT, OG, DC, WR, RB
The pick: +Reggie Bush, RB, USC
The Texans are surprisingly fielding far more trade offers for their pick than the Saints are at No. 2. If the deal is sweet enough, there's still a chance that the Texans could trade down a few spots (Jets?) and still get an elite player at a position of greater need, such as NC State DE Mario Williams or Virginia OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson. When all the dust settles, however, the Texans are still expected to take Bush with the first overall selection. Running back is not one of the Texans' top positional needs, but Bush is far more than just a running back. He's the most explosive runner, receiver and return man that this year's class has to offer. No other rookie will make a bigger impact than Bush will for the Texans next season.
2. New Orleans Saints (3-13)
Top-five needs: OT, DT, OC, DC, OLB
The pick: +Mario Williams, DE, N.C. State
Priority No. 1 for the Saints is still to trade out of this pick. They would love to move down a bit, acquire an extra pick or two and still get one of the top three prospects on their wish list: Williams, Ferguson or Ohio State OLB A.J. Hawk. The team will send out smoke signals following USC QB Matt Leinart's private visit on Wednesday, but don't buy into the hype. If the Saints get stuck picking at No. 2, the decision will be between Williams and Ferguson. While Ferguson fills a great area of need, rumor has it the Saints have Williams rated ahead of him on their board.
3. Tennessee Titans (4-12) Top-five needs: OT, MLB, QB, RB, OC
The pick: Matt Leinart, QB, USC
The Titans have leaked information regarding an internal tug-of-war between the personnel department and coaching staff over the top-rated quarterback in this year's draft, but we are hearing otherwise. Vince Young would be a possibility if Leinart is off the board, but expect the Titans to go with the Southern Cal southpaw if he's available when they go on the clock. The Titans are not expected to come to a resolution with longtime franchise quarterback Steve McNair, so Leinart would have a chance to start immediately. Making this an even more natural fit is Leinart's relationship with offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who spent four years in a similar post at USC.
4. New York Jets (4-12)
Top-five needs: RB, OT, OLB, QB, OG
The pick: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
The Jets are rumored to be one of the teams pursuing a possible deal with the Texans for the No. 1 pick. If that's the case, they would obviously be going after Bush. The second plausible scenario is to trade up a couple spots to secure Leinart, but as of today there are no reports of the Jets contacting the Saints for such a deal. In my opinion, the Jets' best move is to stay put. They have seven picks in the first four rounds, which is more than any other team. Instead of packaging some of those picks to move up, the Jets would be wise to address as many needs as possible in what is an extremely deep talent base in the 2006 draft. In this scenario, Ferguson would be a great value with the fourth overall pick and he would help address a priority need.
5. Green Bay Packers (4-12)
Top-five needs: OG, OLB, OC, DE, WR
The pick: A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State
The Packers have done a decent job of addressing their needs at wide receiver (Rod Gardner), defensive tackle (Ryan Pickett) and safety (Marquand Manuel) this offseason. Still missing, though, is an impact playmaker on defense. There are some reports regarding the Packers' growing interest in massive two-gap DT Haloti Ngata (Oregon). However, Hawk is a more complete player, and he could make a more immediate impact for a defense that is in desperate need of a playmaker and leader of his capacity.
6. San Francisco 49ers (4-12)
Top-five needs: OLB, FS, DC, DE, MLB
The pick: +Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
The 49ers will entertain trade offers once they are on the clock. Unless they receive an undeniable offer, the wise move is to draft the most explosive pass-catching weapon in this year's class. At 6-foot-3 and 258 pounds, with 4.38-speed in the 40-yard dash, Davis has game-breaker written all over him. By using this pick on Davis, the 49ers could exponentially speed up QB Alex Smith's developmental process.
7. Oakland Raiders (4-12)
Top-five needs: OG, DT, OLB, SS, RB
The pick: +Vince Young, QB, Texas
The Raiders have bigger needs, but Young is too special of an athlete to pass on with this pick. Aaron Brooks can serve as a bridge-the-gap starter while Young takes a year or two developing. Andrew Walter, last year's third-round pick, can become a good insurance policy for the future and potentially could become good trade bait.
8. Buffalo Bills (5-11)
Top-five needs: OT, DT, DC, RB, WR
The pick: +Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
Offensive tackle is a primary need area for the Bills. USC OT Winston Justice is skyrocketing up draft boards following his outstanding pro-day workout, but it would be a slight reach to take Justice this high, especially considering some of his character issues. The Bills were able to upgrade their defensive line with the free-agency addition of DT Larry Tripplett, but they are still in search of a young impact player to groom alongside of him. While it seems that Florida State's Brodrick Bunkley is a better fit in the team's new defensive scheme, we're hearing that the Bills favor Ngata over Bunkley if they elect to draft this position. Defensive tackles tend to take longer to develop than most other positions, but the presence of Tripplett and Tim Anderson would allow Ngata to ease into a starting role.
9. Detroit Lions (5-11)
Top-five needs: DC, OLB, ILB, OT, RB
The pick: Michael Huff, DB, Texas
New head coach Rod Marinelli comes from a hard-nosed, defense-minded background, and he'll want to set the tone by selecting an impact playmaker on that side of the ball. Some think Huff can play cornerback in the NFL, while others think he'll be limited to safety. I think he can play some of both, especially with the Lions moving to more of a Cover 2 look under Marinelli. Regardless, Huff is the best defensive back in this year's class, and he would immediately give the Lions much-needed versatility in their secondary.
Cont.
Quote
10. Arizona Cardinals (5-11)
Top-five needs: DB, TE, QB, OT, OLB
The pick: +Ernie Sims, OLB, Florida State
The Cardinals are mightily impressed with Justice but they know he's a bit of a reach at No. 10. They would love for Huff to fall to them here, but that's not the case in this scenario. Furthermore, while Jimmy Williams is high on everyone's board in terms of overall talent, there are too many concerns regarding his personality for the Cardinals to risk this high a pick on him. With all that said, the Cards will have a tough decision to make between Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler, who provides promise for the future, and Sims, who could make an immediate impact playing opposite another young athletic outside linebacker, Karlos Dansby. Head coach Dennis Green and his staff are poised to make a playoff run soon, and Sims will help the team achieve that goal a lot quicker than Cutler.
11. St. Louis Rams (6-10)
Top-five needs: DT, DC, WLB, OG, OT
The pick: Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
This seems a bit high for Greenway to come off the board, but he is a safe pick at a position of need. If Sims slips past the Cardinals at pick No. 10, the Rams would likely take him ahead of Greenway. Another option is to draft Vanderbilt QB Jay Cutler, but new head coach Scott Linehan is an offensive guru who should be able to develop the team's quarterback of the future from a later round.
12. Cleveland Browns (6-10)
Top-five needs: DE, OLB, WR, NT, DC
The pick: Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB, Florida State
The Browns have been one of the most active teams in free agency this year, but they still have a number of holes to fill. After spending two of their three Day 1 picks last year on the offensive side of the ball, general manager Phil Savage knows he needs to give more attention to coach Romeo Crennel's defense. The Browns signed a couple of good fits for the 3-4 scheme, but OLB Willie McGinest and NT Ted Washington are aging and won't be around for long. If Ngata is still on the board, he would be an even better value as Washington's future replacement. In this case, though, Wimbley is the right selection. A former defensive end at Florida State, Wimbley is an ideal fit as a rush-linebacker in the Browns' 3-4 alignment. He could immediately upgrade the team's pass rush as a situational player early in his career before eventually taking over for McGinest as the full-time starter.
13. Baltimore Ravens (6-10)
Top-five needs: DS, QB, ROT, DT, OG
The pick: Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State
Justice would be a consideration in this scenario, but Bunkley is a better value and a better fit. Bunkley has some character and durability issues that could cause him to slip, but we feel that he is a better overall prospect than Ngata. Bunkley has exceptional overall physical tools, as we saw from his jaw-dropping combine performance, and his production as a senior last season (25 tackles for loss, nine sacks) speaks for itself.
14. Philadelphia Eagles (6-10)
Top-five needs: OLB, WR, OT, RB, FS
The pick: +Winston Justice, OT, USC
Drafting a bigger back to take some of the load off Brian Westbrook's shoulders is a possibility, but the Eagles likely will address that need later. The team also needs help at wide receiver and outside linebacker, but no value exists to match this pick. With that in mind, Justice is the best fit. The Eagles are ancient at offensive tackle with Tra Thomas and Jon Runyan, so this would be a wise decision. Justice comes with some baggage and he needs some polishing, but his combination of size and athleticism are undeniable.
15. Denver Broncos (10-6)
Pick acquired from Falcons
Top-five needs: WR, TE, RB, OG/OC, DT
The pick: +Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
The Broncos are hoping to continue to make moves on draft day. Their primary goal is to package picks and move up for TE Davis. If they can't get that deal done, they'll look to acquire more picks by trading down. But if they get stuck at No. 15, look for the Broncos to select the best wide receiver on their board. Jackson needs some polish, but his size, explosive speed and playmaking ability would be a welcomed addition to a wide receiver corps that currently is in flux. Rod Smith is running out of time, and Ashley Lelie has proven to be too unreliable as a full-time starter. Jackson could contribute as a No. 3 immediately while being groomed as the primary target for the future.
16. Miami Dolphins (9-7)
Top-five needs: DC, WR, DS, OG, LB
The pick: +Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
The Dolphins have addressed almost all of their needs via free agency, which gives them the flexibility that coach Nick Saban is looking for on draft weekend. Wimbley would be an option if he were still available. The team would also consider defensive backs such as Jimmy Williams or Donte Whitner (Ohio State). However, Holmes is one of only two elite wide receiver prospects in this year's draft, and he would make a bigger impact than the aforementioned prospects as a sub-package contributor behind starting WRs Chris Chambers and Marty Booker in 2006.
17. Minnesota Vikings (9-7)
Top-five needs: MLB, OLB, DC, QB, WR
The pick: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
Linebacker and cornerback are two positions the Vikings are targeting with this pick, but new head coach Brad Childress could not pass on a quarterback of Cutler's ability if he slips this far. Cutler is a big, athletic quarterback with a rifle for an arm. He needs some technique work, but Childress would have the time he needs to develop Cutler as Brad Johnson's eventual successor.
18. Dallas Cowboys (9-7)
Top-five needs: FS, OT, OG, DC, NT
The pick: +Donte Whitner, DS, Ohio State
The Cowboys would love to trade down in order to get a better value for an offensive tackle such as Auburn's Marcus McNeill. Drafting Holmes is also a possibility if he's available here, but coach Bill Parcells doesn't like to draft wide receivers in the first round, and the team already has a load of money locked up in that position with the recent acquisition of Terrell Owens. So if the Cowboys are stuck with this pick, Whitner makes the most sense. The team needs an intelligent, speedy free safety to complement SS Roy Williams, and Whitner is the ideal match. He emerged as a true playmaker during his junior season at Ohio State, and his 40-yard dash time of 4.38 seconds helped catapult him into first-round consideration.
19. San Diego Chargers (9-7)
Top-five needs: OT, WR, DS, OG, DC
The pick: +Johnathan Joseph, DC, South Carolina
The Chargers would consider a wide receiver if Jackson or Holmes slips to them. However, after recently making the Sammy Davis (DC)-for-Rashaun Woods (WR) trade, the Chargers are in even greater need of an upgrade in the defensive secondary. Joseph would be a good fit with the 19th pick because he's an athletic playmaker who could contribute immediately as a nickel-slot cover corner.
Tail End:
Quote
20. Kansas City Chiefs (10-6)
Top-five needs: DC, WR, OG, DE, QB
Top pick: Tye Hill, DC, Clemson
The Chiefs are in desperate need of a starter opposite LDC Patrick Surtain, so look for them to use this pick on the best cover corner available. Hill is one of the fastest corners in his class and he can change directions quickly. While he's undersized, he has excellent leaping ability and is a fundamentally sound tackler.
21. New England Patriots (10-6)
Top-five needs: ILB/OLB, WR, DC, RB, DT
The pick: +Antonio Cromartie, DC, Florida State
The Patriots have several needs on defense, and they could use this pick on a wide receiver if Jackson or Holmes slides. While linebacker is a bigger need, ultimately, expect the Pats to go with a corner here. Cromartie is a bit raw and rusty after starting just one game at Florida State and missing the entire 2005 season with a knee injury. However, he is healthy now, and he possesses an outstanding combination of size, speed and athleticism. New England's coaching staff has done a good job of developing secondary players quickly (see Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel and Ellis Hobbs) and there's no questioning Cromartie's upside.
22. Denver Broncos (10-6)
Pick acquired from taterskins
Top-five needs: WR, TE, RB, OG/OC, DT
The pick: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
Tatum Bell replaces Mike Anderson, who is now a Raven, as the primary back in Denver. However, Bell has had some problems staying healthy despite splitting carries with Anderson. Ron Dayne is a decent short-yardage ball carrier, but he is limited due to poor speed and lack of elusiveness. The Broncos need a No. 2 back who can spell Bell and step in if Bell misses time with an injury, which is why Williams makes sense here. Williams has excellent initial quickness and he shows a second gear in the open field. His vision and patience also make him a great fit for Denver's zone-blocking schemes.
23. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (11-5)
Top-five needs: OT, OC, WR, WLB, DE
The pick: Jimmy Williams, DC, Virginia Tech
The Buccaneers will try to make a move up the board for OT Justice, but they are unlikely to reach for an offensive tackle such as Marcus McNeill (Auburn) or Eric Winston (Miami) with this pick. If stuck at pick No. 23, look for the Bucs to take advantage of a slipping talent such as Williams. The Bucs need depth at cornerback, and Williams is a perfect fit because of his size, playmaking skills and ability to defend the run. He also has experience at free safety, which gives him added value in a secondary that needs more versatility.
24. Cincinnati Bengals (11-5)
Top-five needs: TE, DE, DC, MLB, RS
The pick: Manny Lawson, DE, N.C. State
The Bengals have several needs on the defensive side of the ball, and they also need a playmaker at tight end. While it's possible that the team might select a tight end such as Georgia's Leonard Pope or UCLA's Marcedes Lewis, expect coach Marvin Lewis to go with an impact defender with this pick and then take advantage of this tight-end class in the next couple of rounds. Lawson is undersized and would be a better fit as a rush linebacker in a 3-4 scheme, but Lewis could afford to use Lawson as a situational pass-rusher early in his career while developing him for a role as a future starter.
25. New York Giants (11-5)
Top-five needs: OLB, WR, DT, OT, RB
The pick: Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
Even if the Giants land free agent OLB LaVar Arrington, they still will be in the market for one in the first few rounds of the draft. Others such as DeMeco Ryans (Alabama) and Thomas Howard (UTEP) are possibilities, but Carpenter is the most versatile of the three available outside linebackers, and he also has a history with the organization, as his father, Rob, played for the Giants.
26. Chicago Bears (11-5)
Top-five needs: DC, TE, SLB, OT, DT
The pick: +Ashton Youboty, DC, Ohio State
Charles Tillman is coming offseason shoulder injury, unrestricted free agent Jerry Azumah isn't expected back and free-agent signee Dante Wesley isn't an every-down corner. Keeping that in mind, the Bears need a corner who will push for playing time opposite Nathan Vasher. Youboty is inconsistent and will give up some big plays when left on an island. However, he has good top-end speed, the frame to get bigger and good short-area man-to-man cover skills.
27. Carolina Panthers (11-5)
Top-five needs: SLB, TE, RB, OT, MLB
The pick: +LenDale White, RB, USC
White's postseason has been a disaster. On top of his hamstring injury, he has turned teams off by failing to get into shape and handle the process seriously. Regardless, White was extremely productive at the college level and is a powerful runner with good speed in the open field. While the Panthers have greater needs, White would give them great insurance should the oft-injured DeShaun Foster miss substantial time, and White will be the best available player if he slips to this pick.
28. Jacksonville Jaguars (12-4)
Top-five needs: OLB, TE, DE, OG, DC
The pick: Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College
The Jaguars could go in several different directions with this pick, including outside linebacker and tight end. Kiwanuka 's draft stock has dipped considerably due to subpar showings at the Senior Bowl and combine. However, he is a proven playmaker who recorded 35½ sacks during his four seasons at Boston College. Kiwanuka could be brought along slowly as a situational pass-rusher behind RDE Paul Spicer, who is better defending the run than rushing the quarterback.
29. New York Jets (4-12):
Pick acquired from Broncos
Top-five needs: RB, OT, OLB, QB, OG
The pick: +Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
The Jets want to substantially reduce 32-year-old Curtis Martin's workload, but there isn't an heir apparent on the roster. Selecting Maroney here would change that. Though Maroney doesn't have great size or strength, he has the burst to get around the corner quickly and he shows a second gear in the open field. He also reads his blocks well and has the lateral mobility to exploit cut-back lanes, so he should push for significant playing time early on.
30. Indianapolis Colts (14-2)
Top-five needs: RB, OLB, OG, MLB, DC
The pick: Joseph Addai, RB, LSU
It will be difficult for any back to fill Edgerrin James' shoes in Indianapolis, especially if the top four backs are taken by the time the Colts select at pick No. 30. Addai is a bit of a reach here, but the Colts might be willing to take the risk considering their dire situation. At the very least, Addai is a good fit for the Colts' scheme. He isn't elusive and he needs to continue to add bulk to his frame -- but he is quick, he has explosive top-end speed and he runs hard. In addition, he catches the ball well and he's versatile enough to line up in the slot, making him a good fit for the Colts' no-huddle offense.
31. Seattle Seahawks (13-3)
Top-five needs: DC, FS, WR, OG, TE
The pick: Richard Marshall, DC, Fresno State
Marshall is quietly climbing up many teams' draft boards right now. He has adequate size to go along with his excellent combination of speed and ball skills. Marshall recorded nine interceptions in just three seasons at Fresno State, and he held up well when matched up one-on-one against USC's top receivers. Former Seattle DC Andre Dyson signed with the Jets, and Marshall has the natural ability to replace him as the starter opposite Marcus Trufant, if he can stay healthy.
32. Pittsburgh Steelers (11-5)
Top-five needs: WR, DE, DS, OC/OG, ILB
The pick: Jason Allen, DB, Tennessee
The Super Bowl champs are obviously void of many pressing positional needs. However, receiver, defensive line and safety are three they will target with this pick. The Steelers are looking for a bigger target opposite Hines Ward, and they know they can get a better value with a prospect such as Notre Dame's Maurice Stovall in the second round. There are some concerns regarding Allen's long-term durability after he suffered a season-ending hip injury as a senior. However, there seem to be mixed reports regarding his medical results. If the Steelers' training staff gives its personnel department the green light, Allen would be a perfect fit as a future starter at free safety opposite SS Troy Polamalu. Don't forget; the Steelers cashed in on a similar injury situation last year with TE Heath Miller.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 19, 2006, 04:46:15 PM
All this is meaningless.
Bottom line: Broncos aren't getting Walker, and the Eagles are.
Celebrating 4/20 a day early, I see.
You are trying to protect yourself from a disappointment by not thinking there is a chance the Eagles land Walker. You have no real logical explanation as to why they can't get him. All indications are there are 3 teams in the race for him right now and the Eagles have as good or better of a chance than any.
That's a 33.3% chance, not 100%.
actually... it's 33.33333333333(infinity)% chance
can we get the full 7 round johnson??
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 05:05:06 PM
can we get the full 7 round johnson??
ESPN would probably sue :CF if someone posted that.
it's true, i know for a fact that Philly Forever is actually Suzy Kolber
i accept emails as well
Wait, IGY... weren't you the one that said any mock past the 1st round is ridiculous?
first rounds mocks are pretty ridiculous as well but i like looking at them...i like the full mocks because i like to see who should go approximately when...i like to see where the reaches happen
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 05:19:52 PM
i like to see where the reaches happen
now you're being sarcastic.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 19, 2006, 05:05:06 PM
can we get the full 7 round johnson??
Done.
Quote
ROUND 2
33. Houston Texans
Eric Winston | OT | Miami
34. New Orleans Saints
Nick Mangold | OC | Ohio State
35. N.Y. Jets
Thomas Howard | OLB | UTEP
36. Green Bay Packers
Tamba Hali | DE | Penn State
37. San Francisco 49ers
Kelly Jennings | DC | Miami
38. Oakland Raiders
Gabe Watson | DT | Michigan
39. Tennessee Titans
D'Qwell Jackson | ILB | Maryland
40. Detroit Lions
Demeco Ryans | OLB | Alabama
41. Arizona Cardinals
Marcedes Lewis | TE | UCLA
42. Buffalo Bills
Marcus McNeill | OT | Auburn
43. Cleveland Browns
Sinorice Moss | WR | Miami
44. Baltimore Ravens
Ko Simpson | DS | South Carolina
45. Philadelphia Eagles
Roger McIntosh | OLB | Miami
46. St. Louis Rams
Claude Wroten | DT | LSU
47. Atlanta Falcons
Rodrique Wright | DT | Texas
48. Minnesota Vikings
Abdul Hodge | ILB | Iowa
49. Dallas Cowboys
Davin Joseph | OG | Oklahoma
50. San Diego Chargers
Andrew Whitworth | OT | LSU
51. Miami Dolphins
Brodie Croyle | QB | Alabama
52. New England Patriots
Brian Calhoun | RB | Wisconsin
53. Washington taterskins
Darryl Tapp | DE | Virginia Tech
54. Kansas City Chiefs
Demetrius Williams | WR | Oregon
55. Cincinnati Bengals
Leonard Pope | TE | Georgia
56. N.Y. Giants
Orien Harris | DT | Miami
57. Chicago Bears
Anthony Fasano | TE | Notre Dame
58. Carolina Panthers
Joe Klopfenstein | TE | Colorado
59. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Chris Chester | OC | Oklahoma
60. Jacksonville Jaguars
Dominique Byrd | TE | USC
61. Denver Broncos
Mark Anderson | DE | Alabama
62. Indianapolis Colts
Jon Alston | OLB | Stanford
63. Seattle Seahawks
Taitusi Lutui | OG | USC
64. Pittsburgh Steelers
Maurice Stovall | WR | Notre Dame
Quote
ROUND 3
65. Houston Texans
Max Jean-Gilles | OG | Georgia
66. Houston Texans (from New Orleans)
Cedric Griffin | DC | Texas
67. Green Bay Packers
John McCargo | DT | N.C. State
68. San Francisco 49ers
Daniel Bullocks | DS | Nebraska
69. Oakland Raiders
Darnell Bing | DS | UCLA
70. Buffalo Bills (from Tennessee)
Greg Jennings | WR | Western Michigan
71. N.Y. Jets
Kellen Clemens | QB | Oregon
72. Arizona Cardinals
Alan Zemaitis | DC | Penn State
73. Buffalo Bills
Danieal Manning | DB | Abilene Christian
74. Detroit Lions
Daryn Colledge | OT | Boise State
75. New England Patriots (from Baltimore)
Gerris Wilkinson | ILB | Georgia Tech
76. Philadelphia Eagles
Travis Wilson | WR | Oklahoma
77. St. Louis Rams
David Thomas | TE | Texas
78. Cleveland Browns
Montavious Stanley | DT | Louisville
79. Atlanta Falcons
Dee Webb | DC | Florida
80. Dallas Cowboys
Jonathan Scott | OT | Texas
81. San Diego Chargers
Derek Hagan | WR | Arizona State
82. Miami Dolphins
Pat Watkins | DS | Florida State
83. Minnesota Vikings
David Pittman | DC | Northwestern State
84. San Francisco 49ers (from Washington)
Parys Haralson | DE/OLB | Tennessee
85. Kansas City Chiefs
Charlie Whitehurst | QB | Clemson
86. New England Patriots
Brandon Williams | WR | Wisconsin
87. N.Y. Giants
Jason Avant | WR | Michigan
88. Chicago Bears
Devin Hester | WR/RS | Miami-Fla.
89. Carolina Panthers
Bernard Pollard | DS | Purdue
90. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jeremy Trueblood | OT | Boston College
91. Cincinnati Bengals
DeMario Minter | DC | Georgia
92. Jacksonville Jaguars
Maurice Drew | RB/RS | UCLA
93. Denver Broncos
Tony Scheffler | TE | Western Michigan
94. Indianapolis Colts
Greg Eslinger | OC | Minnesota
95. Seattle Seahawks
Anthony Smith | DS | Syracuse
96. Pittsburgh Steelers
Charles Spencer | OG | Notre Dame
97. N.Y. Jets (Compensatory Selection)
Kyle Williams | DT | LSU
Quote
ROUND 4
98. Houston Texans
Will Blackmon | WR/RS | Boston College
99. New Orleans Saints
Babatunde Oshinowo | DT | Stanford
100. San Francisco 49ers
Victor Adeyanju | DE | Indiana
101. Oakland Raiders
Jerome Harrison | RB | Washington State
102. Tennessee Titans
Guy Whimper | OT | East Carolina
103. N.Y. Jets
Roman Harper | DS | Alabama
104. Green Bay Packers
Jason Spitz | OG/OC | Louisville
105. Buffalo Bills
Leon Washington | RB | Florida State
106. New England Patriots (from Detroit)
Stanley McClover | DE/OLB | Auburn
107. Arizona Cardinals
Omar Jacobs | QB | Bowling Green
108. Philadelphia Eagles
Dusty Dvoracek | DT | Oklahoma
109. St. Louis Rams
Tim Jennings | DC | Georgia
110. Cleveland Browns
Ryan O'Callaghan | OT | Cal
111. Baltimore Ravens
Zach Strief | OT | Northwestern
112. Atlanta Falcons
Rob Sims | OG | Ohio State
113. San Diego Chargers
Freddie Keiaho | ILB | San Diego State
114. Miami Dolphins
Elvis Dumervil | DE/OLB | Louisville
115. Minnesota Vikings
James Anderson | OLB | Virginia Tech
116. Philadelphia Eagles (from Dallas)
Calvin Lowry | DS | Penn State
117. N.Y. Jets (from Kansas City)
Fred Matua | OG | USC
118. New England Patriots
Charles Gordon | DC/WR/RS | Kansas
119. Denver Broncos (from Washington)
LeKevin Smith | DT | Nebraska
120. Chicago Bears
Jesse Mahelona | DT | Tennessee
121. Carolina Panthers
Brandon Johnson | OLB | Louisville
122. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Willie Reid | WR/RS | Florida State
123. Cincinnati Bengals
Jerious Norwood | RB/KR | Mississippi State
124. N.Y. Giants
Andre Hall | RB | South Florida
125. Jacksonville Jaguars
Brian Iwuh | OLB/DS | Colorado
126. Denver Broncos
Michael Robinson | WR | Penn State
127. Philadelphia Eagles (from Indianapolis)
Ray Edwards | DE | Purdue
128. Seattle Seahawks
Brandon Marshall | WR | Central Florida
129. Pittsburgh Steelers
Tim Dobbins | ILB | Iowa State
130. Denver Broncos (Compensatory Selection)
Rashad Butler | OT | Miami-Fla.
131. Pittsburgh Steelers (Compensatory Selection)
Chris Gocong | DE | Cal-Poly
132. Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory Selection)
Tarvaris Jackson | QB | Alabama State
133. Pittsburgh Steelers (Compensatory Selection)
Leon Williams | ILB | Miami-Fla.
Quote
ROUND 5
134. Houston Texans
A.J. Nicholson | OLB | Florida State
135. New Orleans Saints
Owen Daniels | TE | Wisconsin
136. New England Patriots (from Oakland)
Kai Parham | ILB | Virginia
137. Tennessee Titans
Derrick Martin | DC | Wyoming
138. N.Y. Jets
Eric Henderson | DE | Georgia Tech
139. Green Bay Packers
Devin Aromashodu | WR | Auburn
140. San Francisco 49ers
Julian Jenkins | DE | Stanford
141. Detroit Lions
Marcus Maxey | DB | Miami-Fla.
142. Arizona Cardinals
Jonathan Lewis | DT | Virginia Tech
143. Buffalo Bills
Garrett Mills | TE/FB | Tulsa
144. St. Louis Rams
Bruce Gradkowski | QB | Toledo
145. Cleveland Browns
Barry Cofield | DT | Northwestern
146. Baltimore Ravens
Jonathan Orr | WR | Wisconsin
147. Philadelphia Eagles
Gerald Riggs Jr | RB | Tennessee
148. Atlanta Falcons
P.J. Daniels | RB | Georgia Tech
149. Minnesota Vikings
Tim Day | TE | Oregon
150. Dallas Cowboys
Brent Hawkins | DE/OLB | Illinois State
151. San Diego Chargers
Kevin Boothe | OG | Cornell
152. Cleveland Browns (from New England)
Reggie McNeal | QB | Texas A&M
153. Washington taterskins
Clint Ingram | OLB | Oklahoma
154. Kansas City Chiefs
Jahri Evans | OG | Bloomsburg
155. Carolina Panthers
Paul McQuistan | OT | Weber State
156. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jeremy Mincey | DE | Florida
157. Cincinnati Bengals
Greg Blue | DS/OLB | Georgia
158. N.Y. Giants
Lawrence Vickers | RB/FB | Colorado
159. Chicago Bears
Joe Toledo | OT | Washington
160. Jacksonville Jaguars
Anwar Phillips | DC | Penn State
161. Denver Broncos
D.J. Shockley | QB | Georgia
162. Indianapolis Colts
Gerrick McPhearson | DC | Maryland
163. Seattle Seahawks
T.J. Williams | TE | N.C. State
164. Pittsburgh Steelers
Jeremy Bloom | RS | Colorado
165. Green Bay Packers (Compensatory Selection)
Wendell Mathis | RB | Florida State
166. Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory Selection)
Marcus Hudson | DB | N.C. State
167. Pittsburgh Steelers (Compensatory Selection)
DonTrell Moore | RB | New Mexico
168. Philadelphia Eagles (Compensatory Selection)
Skyler Green | RS/WR | LSU
169. Tennessee Titans (Compensatory Selection)
Mike Hass | WR | Oregon
Quote
ROUND 6
170. Houston Texans
Dale Robinson | ILB | Arizona State
171. New Orleans Saints
Jeromey Clary | OT | Kansas State
172. Tennessee Titans
Ryan Cook | OC | New Mexico
173. N.Y. Jets
Todd Watkins | WR | BYU
174. New Orleans Saints (from Green Bay)
Darrell Hunter | DC | Miami-Ohio
175. San Francisco 49ers
Greg Lee | WR | Pittsburgh
176. Oakland Raiders
Omar Gaither | OLB | Tennessee
177. Arizona Cardinals
Antoine Bethea | DS | Howard.
178. Buffalo Bills
Tim McGarigle | ILB | Northwestern
179. Detroit Lions
Oliver Hoyte | ILB | N.C. State
180. Cleveland Browns
Dion Byrum | DC | Ohio
181. Baltimore Ravens
Chris Kuper | OG | North Dakota
182. Dallas Cowboys (from Philadelphia)
Josh Lay | DC | Pittsburgh
183. St. Louis Rams
E.J. Whitley | OT | Texas Tech
184. Atlanta Falcons
Cory Rodgers | WR/RS | TCU
185. Minnesota Vikings
Martin Nance | WR | Miami-Ohio
186. Kansas City Chiefs (from Dallas)
Brandon Guillory | DE | Louisiana-Monroe
187. San Diego Chargers
Adam Stenavich | OG | Michigan
188. San Diego Chargers (from Miami)
Jahmile Addae | DS | West Virginia
189. Washington taterskins
Johnny Jolly | DT | Texas A&M
190. Kansas City Chiefs
Taurean Henderson | RB | Texas Tech
191. New England Patriots
Josh Huston | PK | Ohio State
192. San Francisco 49ers (from Tampa Bay)
Hank Baskett | WR | New Mexico
193. Cincinnati Bengals
Darrell Hackney | QB | UAB
194. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (from New York)
Travis Williams | OLB | Auburn
195. Chicago Bears
John Walker | DB | USC
196. Washington taterskins (from Carolina)
Terrance Pennington | OT | New Mexico
197. Jacksonville Jaguars
Mark Setterstrom | OG | Minnesota
198. Denver Broncos
Dwayne Slay | DS | Texas Tech
199. Indianapolis Colts
Stephen Tulloch | LB | N.C. State
200. Seattle Seahawks
Matt Bernstein | FB | Wisconsin
201. Pittsburgh Steelers
James Wyche | DE | Syracuse
202. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (Compensatory Selection)
Marques Colston | WR | Hofstra
203. Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory Selection)
John Torp | PT | Colorado
204. Philadelphia Eagles (Compensatory Selection)
Derek Morris | OT | N.C. State
205. New England Patriots (Compensatory Selection)
Kedrick Golston | DT | Georgia
206. New England Patriots (Compensatory Selection)
Dan Stevenson | OG | Notre Dame
207. Indianapolis Colts (Compensatory Selection)
Drew Olson | QB | UCLA
208. Baltimore Ravens (Compensatory Selection)
Keith Ellison | OLB | Oregon State
Quote
ROUND 7
209. Cincinnati Bengals
Rob Ninkovich | DE | Purdue
210. New Orleans Saints
Marcus Vick | QB | Virginia Tech
211. N.Y. Jets
Mike Kudla | DE | Ohio State
212. Miami Dolphins (from Green Bay)
Anthony Schlegel | ILB | Ohio State
213. San Francisco 49ers
Terna Nande | OLB | Miami-Ohio
214. Oakland Raiders
Marvin Philip | OC | Cal
215. Tennessee Titans
Wali Lundy | RB | Virginia
216. Buffalo Bills
Jarrad Page | DS | UCLA.
217. Detroit Lions
Frostee Rucker | DE | USC
218. Arizona Cardinals
Dennis Roland | OT | Georgia
219. Baltimore Ravens
Charles Davis | TE | Purdue
220. Philadelphia Eagles
Jeff Webb | WR | San Diego State
221. St. Louis Rams
Ryan LaCasse | DE | Syracuse
222. Cleveland Browns
DeArrius Howard | RB | Arkansas
223. Atlanta Falcons
Scott Ware | DS | USC
224. Dallas Cowboys
Jeff King | TE | Virginia Tech
225. San Diego Chargers
Ben Obomanu | WR | Auburn
226. Miami Dolphins
Rob Meadow | OG | Washington
227. San Diego Chargers (from Minnesota)
Gilbert Harris | FB | Arizona
228. Kansas City Chiefs
Tony McDaniel | DT | Tennessee
229. New England Patriots
Marcus Green | DT | Ohio State
230. Washington taterskins
Troy Reddick | OT/OG | Auburn
231. Cincinnati Bengals
Freddie Roach | ILB | Alabama
232. N.Y. Giants
Miles Austin | WR | Monmouth
233. Miami Dolphins (from Chicago)
Jovon Bouknight | WR/RS | Wyoming
234. Carolina Panthers
Spencer Havner | OLB | UCLA
235. Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tommy Jackson | DT | Auburn
236. San Francisco 49ers (from Jacksonville)
Domata Peko | DT | Michigan State
237. Carolina Panthers (from Denver)
Jason Hatcher | DE | Grambling
238. Tennessee Titans (from Indianapolis)
Cory Ross | RB | Nebraska
239. Seattle Seahawks
Brad Smith | WR/RS | Missouri
240. Pittsburgh Steelers
Anthony Mix | H-Back | Auburn
241. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (Compensatory Selection)
Patrick Ross | OC | Boston College
242. St. Louis Rams (Compensatory Selection)
Troy Bienemann | TE | Washington State
243. St. Louis Rams (Compensatory Selection)
Charles Bennett | DE | Clemson
244. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (Compensatory Selection)
Adam Jennings | WR | Fresno State
245. Tennessee Titans (Compensatory Selection)
Quinn Sypniewski | TE | Colorado
246. Tennessee Titans (Compensatory Selection)
Anthony Trucks | OLB | Oregon
247. Detroit Lions (Compensatory Selection)
Jimmy Martin | OT | Virginia Tech
248. Buffalo Bills (Compensatory Selection)
Domenik Hixon | RS/WR| Akron
249. Seattle Seahawks (Compensatory Selection)
Reuben Houston | DC | Georgia Tech
250. Washington taterskins (Compensatory Selection)
Ryan Plackemeier | PT | Wake Forest
251. Houston Texans (Compensatory Selection)
Charlton Keith | DE | Kansas
252. New Orleans Saints (Compensatory Selection)
Kevin Simon | OLB | Tennessee
253. Green Bay Packers (Compensatory Selection)
Dawan Landry | DS | Georgia Tech
254. San Francisco 49ers (Compensatory Selection)
Will Derting | OLB | Washington State
255. Oakland Raiders (Compensatory Selection)
Delanie Walker | WR | Missouri State
i actually really like draft a lot.
So, the Eagles get...
Winston Justice - OT
Rocky McIntosh - OLB
Travis Wilson - WR
Dusty Dvoracek - DT
Calvin Lowry - S
Ray Edwards - DE
Gerald Riggs Jr - RB
Skyler Green - KR/PR
Derek Morris - OT
Jeff Webb - WR
Besides not knowing much about Travis Wilson, it looks somewhat OK.
No QB? That seems unlikely.
Kiper's first round:
Quote1. Houston Reggie Bush, RB USC
2. New Orleans Mario Williams, DE NC State
3. Tennessee Matt Leinart, QB USC
4. N.Y. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson, T Virginia
5. Green Bay A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio St.
6. San Francisco Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
7. Oakland Vince Young, QB Texas
8. Buffalo Brodrick Bunkley, DT Florida St.
9. Detroit Michael Huff, DB Texas
10. Arizona Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
11. St. Louis Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
12. Cleveland Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB Florida St.
13. Baltimore Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon
14. Philadelphia Winston Justice, T USC
15. Denver (from ATL) Chad Jackson, WR Florida
16. Miami Donte Whitner, S Ohio St.
17. Minnesota Ernie Sims, LB Florida St.
18. Dallas Jason Allen, S/CB Tennessee
19. San Diego Johnathan Joseph, CB South Carolina
20. Kansas City Tye Hill, CB Clemson
21. New England Santonio Holmes, WR Ohio St.
22. Denver (from WSH) DeAngelo Williams, RB Memphis
23. Tampa Bay Antonio Cromartie, CB Florida St.
24. Cincinnati Jimmy Williams, CB Virginia Tech
25. N.Y. Giants Kelly Jennings, CB Miami
26. Chicago Richard Marshall CB Fresno St.
27. Carolina LenDale White, RB USC
28. Jacksonville Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
29. N.Y. Jets (from DEN) Manny Lawson, DE/OLB NC State
30. Indianapolis Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota
31. Seattle Ashton Youboty, CB Ohio St.
32. Pittsburgh Sinorice Moss, WR Miami
Kiper's 2nd:
Quote33. Houston Eric Winston, T Miami
34. New Orleans Nick Mangold, C Ohio St.
35. N.Y. Jets Joseph Addai, RB LSU
36. Green Bay Tamba Hali, DE Penn St.
37. San Francisco Bobby Carpenter, LB Ohio St.
38. Oakland Gabe Watson, DT Michigan
39. Tennessee D'Qwell Jackson, LB Maryland
40. Detroit Davin Joseph, G Oklahoma
41. Arizona Leonard Pope, TE Georgia
42. Buffalo Taitusi "Deuce" Lutui, G USC
43. Cleveland Abdul Hodge, LB Iowa
44. Baltimore Brodie Croyle, QB Alabama
45. Philadelphia DeMeco Ryans, LB Alabama
46. St. Louis Orien Harris, DT Miami
47. Atlanta Cedric Griffin, CB Texas
48. Minnesota Kellen Clemens, QB Oregon
49. Dallas Marcus McNeill, T Auburn
50. San Diego Demetrius Williams, WR Oregon
51. Minnesota (from MIA) Chris Chester, OL Oklahoma
52. New England Brian Calhoun, RB Wisconsin
53. Washington Rocky McIntosh, LB Miami
54. Kansas City Darryl Tapp, DE Virginia Tech
55. Cincinnati Dominique Byrd, TE USC
56. N.Y. Giants Thomas Howard, LB UTEP
57. Chicago Greg Jennings, WR Western Michigan
58. Carolina Joe Klopfenstein, TE Colorado
59. Tampa Bay Andrew Whitworth, T LSU
60. Jacksonville Jason Spitz, C Louisville
61. Denver Mark Anderson, DE Alabama
62. Indianapolis Daniel Bullocks, DB Nebraska
63. Seattle Mathias Kiwanuka, DE Boston College
64. Pittsburgh Danieal Manning, DB Abilene Christian
Kiper's 3rd:
Quote65. Houston Ko Simpson, DB South Carolina
66. Houston (from NO) Gerris Wilkinson, LB Georgia Tech
67. Green Bay Max Jean-Gilles, G Georgia
68. San Francisco David Pittman, CB Northwestern St. (La.)
69. Oakland Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
70. Buffalo (from TEN) Ryan O'Callaghan, T California
71. N.Y. Jets Brandon Williams, WR Wisconsin
72. Arizona Jon Alston, LB Stanford
73. Buffalo Maurice Stovall, WR Notre Dame
74. Detroit Devin Hester, CB Miami
75. New England (from BAL) Chris Gocong, DE/LB Cal Poly-SLO
76. Philadelphia Claude Wroten, DT LSU
77. St. Louis David Thomas, TE Texas
78. Cleveland Charles Spencer, G Pittsburgh
79. Atlanta Calvin Lowery, DB Penn St.
80. Dallas Charlie Whitehurst, QB Clemson
81. San Diego Paul McQuistan, OL Weber St.
82. Miami Parys Haralson, DE Tennessee
83. Minnesota Will Blackmon, WR/CB Boston College
84. San Francisco (from WSH) Victor Adeyanju, DE Indiana
85. Kansas City Brandon Marshall, WR Central Florida
86. New England Montavious Stanley, DT Louisville
87. N.Y. Giants Kyle Williams, DT LSU
88. Chicago Anthony Fasano, TE Notre Dame
89. Carolina Darnell Bing, DB USC
90. Tampa Bay Willie Reid, WR Fresno St.
91. Cincinnati Stanley McClover, DE Auburn
92. Jacksonville Jerome Harrison, RB Washington St.
93. Atlanta (from DEN) Devin Aromashodu, WR Auburn
94. Indianapolis Dusty Dvoracek, DT Oklahoma
95. Minnesota (from SEA) Le Kevin Smith, DT Nebraska
96. Pittsburgh Brent Hawkins, DE/OLB Illinois St.
97. N.Y. Jets (comp. pick) Roman Harper, DB Alabama
I would be really really happy with that. Is that from today FF?
Kiper's 4th:
Quote98. Houston James Wyche, DE Syracuse
99. New Orleans Demetrice Webb, CB Florida
100. San Francisco Lawrence Vickers, FB Colorado
101. Oakland Anthony Smith, DB Syracuse
102. Tennessee Leon Washington, RB Florida St.
103. N.Y. Jets Alan Zemaitis, CB Penn St.
104. Green Bay Derrick Martin, CB Wyoming
105. Buffalo Elvis Dumervil, DE Louisville
106. New England (from DET) Guy Whimper, T East Carolina
107. Arizona Fred Matua, G USC
108. Philadelphia David Kirtman, FB USC
109. St. Louis Kevin Boothe, OL Cornell
110. Cleveland DeMario Minter, CB Georgia
111. Baltimore Dion Byrum, CB Ohio
112. Cleveland (from ATL) Rodrique Wright, DT Texas
113. San Diego Babatunde Oshinowo, DT Stanford
114. Miami Zach Strief, T Northwestern
115. Minnesota Miles Austin, WR Monmouth
116. Philadelphia (from DAL) Tarvaris Jackson, QB Alabama St.
117. N.Y. Jets (from KC) Greg Eslinger, C Minnesota
118. New England Derek Hagan, WR Arizona St.
119. Denver (from WSH) Owen Daniels, TE Wisconsin
120. Chicago Freddie Keiaho, LB San Diego St.
121. Carolina Jonathan Scott, T Texas
122. Tampa Bay Brandon Johnson, LB Louisville
123. Cincinnati John McCargo, DT NC State
124. N.Y. Giants Jeremy Trueblood, T Boston College
125. Jacksonville James Anderson, LB Virginia Tech
126. Denver Bernard Pollard, DB Purdue
127. Philadelphia (from IND) Hank Baskett, WR New Mexico
128. Seattle John Torp, P Colorado
129. Pittsburgh Andre Hall, RB South Florida
130. Denver (comp. pick) Jeremy Bloom, WR Colorado
131. Pittsburgh (comp. pick) Daryn Colledge, T Boise St.
132. Baltimore (comp. pick) Rob Sims, G Ohio St.
133. Pittsburgh (comp. pick) Omar Jacobs, QB Bowling Green
No 5th-7th (yet)
John McCargo in the late 4th? Whoa.
Quote from: NGM on April 19, 2006, 06:04:57 PM
I would be really really happy with that. Is that from today FF?
Kiper's is about a week old, I think.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 06:00:52 PM
Besides not knowing much about Travis Wilson, it looks somewhat OK.
Never heard of him too, so I checked him out:
Quote
Height: 6-2 | Weight: 215 | 40-Time: 4.52
Strengths:
Has great size and knows how to use his big frame...An outstanding leaper with good body control and ball skills...Physical and very tough...A solid blocker...Big target who does a good job of getting open...Can get downfield and be a vertical threat...Great in the red zone...A hard worker with good intangibles...Still has some upside and might end up getting drafted a little lower than he should.
Weaknesses:
Does not seem to play as fast as he times and lacks great acceleration...Does not have natural hands and catches the ball with his body too often...Doesn't run great routes...Battled through injuries and missed some games this past season...Had a very disappointing senior campaign dropping from 11 touchdowns to just 1 with his receptions and yards basically cut in half from the year before.
Notes:
Failed to emerge and live up to the lofty expectations everyone had for him as a senior due in part to the uneven play at quarterback and the loss of Mark Clayton and Mark Bradley...Has some tools to work with and an outstanding blend of size / speed...Could be a steal if he reverts back to the form he showed in 2004.
(http://www.seniorbowl.com/2006/graphics/photos/06.wilson.jpg)
He sounds like Billy McMullen II. No thanks.
Kiper's Top 25 overall (big board):
Quote1. Reggie Bush, USC (6-0, 200, Junior) | previous rank: same
Bush will give the team that drafts him a multifaceted offensive attack. He's dangerous from the backfield, as a slot receiver and in the return game.
2. Mario Williams, DE, NC State (6-7, 285, Junior) | previous rank: 3
A dominant physical presence who had some great individual performances at the end of last season. Williams is a big, strong pro-type defensive end and has all the skills NFL coaches are looking for as an every-down player.
3. Matt Leinart, QB, USC (6-4, 225) | previous rank: 2
His arm strength has improved since last season, and he threw the ball even better in 2005. Leinart didn't repeated as the Heisman Trophy winner, but he makes plays when he has to. He should remain near the very top of the draft board.
4. Vince Young, QB, Texas (6-5, 233, Junior) | previous rank: 5
Young's stock has risen considerably since an amazing performance in the Rose Bowl. He's big, strong and exceptionally fast. The New Orleans Saints will have to consider taking him as the No. 2 pick in the draft.
5. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, T, Virginia (6-5½, 295) | previous rank: 4
The top offensive lineman in this draft, Ferguson will be an ideal left tackle in the NFL.
6. A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio State (6-1½, 242) | previous rank: 7
The top defensive player in the senior class. An instinctive player and a sure tackler, he knows which angles to take to the ball and finds his way through traffic. Hawk should be able to help out a team right away.
7. Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland (6-3, 250, Junior) | previous rank: 8
Physically gifted athlete who plays the tight end like a wide receiver. Davis is a phenomenal pass catcher and is a better prospect than when Kellen Winslow came out of Miami.
8. Michael Huff, DB, Texas (6-1, 205) | previous rank: 6
Athletic and instinctive, he has shown the versatility to play cornerback or safety at the next level.
9. Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State, (6-3, 306) | previous rank: 17
He was the story of the combine on the defensive side of the ball. He ran 4.99 in the 40-yard dash and bench pressed 225 pounds 44 times. He has a wide upper body and is quick on his feet. He also has a great attitude, and based on his workouts, he's guaranteed to be a first-round pick.
10. Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon (6-5, 338, Junior) | previous rank: same
Ngata will be more than a defensive tackle who just clogs the interior because his strength and athleticism will allow him to penetrate and make plays behind the line of scrimmage.
11. Kamerion Wimbley, DE, Florida State (6-4, 248) | previous rank: 23
He might be an outside linebacker in the right scheme. Wimbley ran a 4.63, which was a very good time, and had a vertical leap of 38½ inches.
12. Chad Jackson, Florida, WR (6-1, 213, Junior) | previous rank: 24
His times in the 40-yard dash were 4.32 and 4.37. Jackson caught the ball well and stood out among the receivers in Indianapolis. He's done everything the right way since the season ended and has moved himself into that first-round mix.
13. Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State (5-10, 185, Junior) | previous rank: 16
He is very tough and is willing to make catches in traffic. Holmes is a very good route runner and has a good burst out of his break. He doesn't have the greatest size, but toughness counts. He should be the first wide receiver taken off the board.
14. Winston Justice, T, USC (6-6, 311, Junior) | previous rank: 22
A great athlete and very gifted, Justice is as good as any right tackle in the country at getting down field beyond the defensive line. He'll be able to play either tackle positions in the NFL.
15. DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis (5-9, 215) | previous rank: 9
An exceptional running back, especially since he did not play behind one of the best offensive lines. Could very well be a top-10 pick for a team that needs a running back who can do it all.
16. Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa (6-2½, 244) | previous rank: 20
He was one of the nation's top-flight linebackers the past two years. A smart player with great physical skills, Greenway has a nose for the ball. He'll help out a team right away.
17. Donte Whitner, S, Ohio St. (5-11, 205, Junior) | previous rank: unranked
He has moved up the draft board fast since the season ended. Whitner is versatile enough to play either cornerback or safety.
18. Tye Hill, CB, Clemson (5-9½, 181) | previous rank: same
Hill is not especially big, but he has long arms, phenomenal speed and great confidence. He had one of the better weeks at the Senior Bowl, which should propel him into the first round.
19. Ernie Sims, LB, Florida State (6-0, 200, Junior) | previous rank: 14
Sims finished fourth on FSU with 70 tackles this season. He's an extremely fast 'backer who's used to being the focus of opposing offenses' game plans.
20. Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt (6-3¼, 227) | previous rank: 15
He's the next best QB in the senior class behind Leinart. Cutler has gone from being a potential first-round pick to possibly going in the top 10.
21. Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech (6-2½, 207) | previous rank: 12
Williams gave the Hokies a shutdown cornerback who could lock up the opposition's top receiver. He eliminates one side of the field. A former safety who moved to corner before the 2004 season.
22. Johnathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina (5-11, 187, Junior) | previous rank: unranked
He is a true cornerback and one of the fastest players in the draft. A team like San Diego would be an ideal fit for Joseph.
23. Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota (5-11, 205, Junior) | previous rank: 13
A very good, natural runner who is smooth and patient. Maroney allowed his blocks to develop and then showed a good burst of speed through openings. He has good vision and the ability to shift gears quickly.
24. Jason Allen, S, Tennessee (6-2, 202) | previous rank: unranked
Allen was one of the top seniors in 2005 before his season ended with a hip injury. However, he has battled back from injury and his versatility (he can also play cornerback) has propelled him into the first-round mix.
25. Richard Marshall, CB, Fresno State (5-11, 190, Junior) | previous rank: unranked
Also a true cover corner, Marshall projects as a first-round pick. He led the Bulldogs in solo tackles (57), interceptions (three) and pass break-ups (11).
Brick at number 5 behind Vince Young? Mel combed his hair too tight when he wrote this one up.
People actually do 7 round mocks?
What the hell.
McShay has nothing better to do with his time.
Quote from: NGM on April 19, 2006, 06:12:39 PM
Brick at number 5 behind Vince Young? Mel combed his hair too tight when he wrote this one up.
That is why I hate Mel. His pride factor. He thinks he is always the de-facto expert, and once he makes his first analysis of his "blue-chips" -well before the combine- normallly nothing will sway him from that judgement. Leinhart could come out and say, "I will only play football until Hollywood accepts me..." and Mel would still have him slotted same slot.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 19, 2006, 06:10:35 PM
He sounds like Billy McMullen II. No thanks.
Quote16. Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa (6-2½, 244) | previous rank: 20
He was one of the nation's top-flight linebackers the past two years. A smart player with great physical skills, Greenway has a nose for the ball. He'll help out a team right away.
Before the year I ment to watch alot of Wilson but only saw a few games. He went into the year as a first rounder, but really dropped off.
Looking at Greenway and your avatar, im curios as to why you wouldnt want the Eagles to draft him.
Quote
Weaknesses:
Does not seem to play as fast as he times and lacks great acceleration...Does not have natural hands and catches the ball with his body too often...Doesn't run great routes...Battled through injuries and missed some games this past season...Had a very disappointing senior campaign dropping from 11 touchdowns to just 1 with his receptions and yards basically cut in half from the year before.
it's safe to assume that "not natural" does not mean "bionic" in this case?
Travis Wilson sucks.
Give me Jeff Webb, Greg Jennings or Brandon Marshall.
Yes, I will be pimping those three names for the next two weeks.
Brandon Marshall is huge. I mentioned him on here before too, but his lack of experience at WR scares me.
Quote from: Dillen37 on April 19, 2006, 06:36:36 PM
Looking at Greenway and your avatar, im curios as to why you wouldnt want the Eagles to draft him.
Because I think he would prove to be a liability against the run and really no better overall than Dhani at SAM.
I think Greenway would actually make a decent WIL. We just don't need one of those as badly as a SAM. He will probably wind up in a 3-4....and roam....being a tackle machine. I don't think he'll be a terrible LB at the next level, but he doesn't fit in Philly at the moment, unless for some strange reason, they drafted him to be the WIL.
jaws just said he loves maurice stovall but he 'would probably be a reach at 14'
Gems by Jaws.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 08:12:58 AM
jaws just said he loves maurice stovall but he 'would probably be a reach at 14'
i feel sorry for anybody standing around you when he said that.
ive come around on stovall a little...i think ive been brainwashed by the hype that has surrounded him the last month or so...i still dont want him before the fourth round but im not against getting him at all costs
If they draft Stovall at #14, there will be mutliple holes in my drywall.
Dude, I'm fanatical about the Birds, but I don't think I could get angry enough over a draft pick to cause collateral damage. I save that for game day.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 08:35:30 AM
ive come around on stovall a little...i think ive been brainwashed by the hype that has surrounded him the last month or so...i still dont want him before the fourth round but im not against getting him at all costs
The fourth round :-D :-D :-D, dude c'mon they would have to draft him in the second, maybe third.
me myself and i wouldnt take him before the fourth
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 11:02:52 AM
me myself and i wouldnt take him before the fourth
So, you wouldn't take him.
pretty much
so, when you say "ive come around on stovall a little", that means that you still won't take him. but you also won't bite his forearm if you ever see him in public.
see sun knows how to play the game
I'd take a flyer on Tamba Hali in the 5th.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 20, 2006, 11:11:23 AM
I'd take a flyer on Tamba Hali in the 5th.
another rage inducing expression. it's a whole lot of unnecessary words. the same message could have been said as
I'd take
a flyer on Tamba Hali in the 5th.
unless it means someone is actually passing out pieces of paper with Hali's bio on it during the 5th round of the draft.
multiple picks in a mid or late round were invented for players like tamba
id burn one of the 4ths for him
ive been looking at several of the seven round mocks and for a player that is rated so low its amazing how many of them have the birds taking skyler green
another rage inducing expression. it's a whole lot of unnecessary words. the same message could have been said as
I'd take a flyer on Tamba Hali in the 5th.
unless it means someone is actually passing out pieces of paper with Hali's bio on it during the 5th round of the draft.
totally agree...in the same family as reach
If you couldn't see that I was using it tongue-in-cheek, you should be enraged... at yourself.
i wasnt even referring to your usage of it...i was speaking in a general sense
you used reach yesterday. you need to be punished.
Football's Future just updated it's three round mock:
Quote
1. Houston Reggie Bush, RB, USC
Don't buy the talk of the Texans going another route - Reggie will be lining up in their backfield next year.
2. New Orleans D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
Stud blind side protector to protect Drew Brees.
3. Tennessee Matt Leinart, QB, USC
Perfect fit for Norm Chow's offense.
4. New York Jets Mario Williams, DL, North Carolina St.
Not the greatest fit in a 3-4, but neither was Bruce Smith. You can't pass on a talent like his at this point.
5. Green Bay Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
The Pack go with the potential gamebreaker at the TE position.
6. San Francisco A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio St.
With no offensive player available to help, they grab a leader for their defense.
7. Oakland Vince Young, QB, Texas
Davis loves potential and hype, and Young is loaded with both.
8. Buffalo Winston Justice, OT, USC
The Bills have to address the OL and Justice has steadily risen during the post season.
9. Detroit Michael Huff, DB, Texas
The Lions look to address their defense, and Huff is a great fit in the defensive backfield.
10. Arizona Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
The Cards have to find a replacement for Warner down the line.
11. St. Louis Jonathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina
He is rising up boards with a fury. He has comparable upside to Cromartie, but not quite the risk.
12. Cleveland Haloti Ngata, NT, Oregon
The Browns get their man without having to move up. Ngata is a perfect fit on the nose.
13. Baltimore Ernie Sims, LB, Florida St.
Lining up a hitter like Sims next to Ray Lewis is a scary thought for offenses.
14. Philadelphia Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida St.
Despite the selection of Mike Patterson last year, the Eagles still need interior DL help.
15. Denver(Atl) DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
Tatum Bell cannot be counted on as a feature back, and Williams could be a star in Denver.
16. Miami Jimmy Williams, DB, Virginia Tech
Miami needs secondary help, and Williams could help at corner or safety.
17. Minnesota Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida St.
Cromartie would've been a top 10 pick had he not been injured. He isn't ready to start right away, but could be the Vikes nickel man from the getgo.
18. Dallas Gabe Watson, NT, Michigan
The Boys need an upgrade at NT, and surprise some with the Watson selection. The NT crop drops after after Ngata and Watson, so they grabbed one while they could.
19. San Diego Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
CB was a need before trading Sammy Davis to the 9ers.
20. Kansas City Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
The Chiefs lack a go to receiver, and with the DT's off the board, they take the Florida wideout.
21. New England Manny Lawson, DE/OLB, North Carolina St.
The Patriots need to replace Willie McGinest and Lawson is an ideal fit.
22. San Francisco(Den via Was) Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio St.
After landing the standout linebacker earlier, the 9ers get a weapon for Alex Smith.
23. Tampa Bay Eric Winston, OT, Miami
Tackle is a must selection, and Winston could be a major steal at this point.
24. Cincinnati Donte Whitner, S, Ohio St.
Whitner gets to stay home and fills an immediate need at safety.
25. New York Giants Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa
LB is simply their biggest need, and Greenway is great value at this spot.
26. Chicago Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio St.
With Azumah retiring, the Bears grab the Buckeye to replace him.
27. Carolina DeMeco Ryans, LB, Alabama
Will Witherspoon left in free agency, and left a huge hole at linebacker behind him.
28. Jacksonville Nick Mangold, C, Ohio St.
His attitude is a great fit for a Del-Rio team and he adds talent and versatility to the interior OL.
29. NY Jets(Den) Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB, Florida St.
Wimbley replaces the traded John Abraham as the sack man off the edge.
30. Indianapolis Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
Could produce as much as James did, at a much lower salary.
31. Seattle Jason Allen, DB, Tennessee
Provides insurance in case Hamlin does not make it back, or replaces the departed Dyson.
32. Pittsburgh LenDale White, RB, USC
The Steelers benefit from White's hammy injury, as they get the ideal replacement for Bettis in their offense.
ROUND 2Quote
1. Houston - Marcus McNeill, OT, Auburn
2. New Orleans - Bobby Carpenter, LB, Ohio St.
3. New York Jets - Daryn Colledge, OL, Boise St.
4. Green Bay - Abdul Hodge, LB, Iowa
5. Denver(SF) - Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College
6. Oakland - Darnell Bing, S, USC
7. Tennessee - D'Qwell Jackson, LB, Maryland
8. Detroit - Jonathan Scott, OT, Texas
9. Arizona - Daniel Bullocks, S, Nebraska
10. Buffalo - John McCargo, DT, North Carolina St.
11. Cleveland - Richard Marshall, CB, Fresno St.
12. Baltimore - Cedric Griffin, DB, Texas
13. Philadelphia - Sinorice Moss, WR, Miami
14. St. Louis - Thomas Howard, LB, UTEP
15. Atlanta - Davin Joseph, G, Oklahoma
16. Minnesota - Rocky McIntosh, LB, Miami
17. Dallas - Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
18. San Diego - Greg Jennings, WR, Western Michigan
19. Minnesota(Miami) - Demetrius Williams, WR, Oregon
20. New England - Maurice Stovall, WR, Notre Dame
21. Washington - Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA
22. Kansas City - Kelly Jennings, CB, Miami
23. Cincinnati - Claude Wroten, DT, LSU
24. New York Giants - Jonathan Lewis, DT, Virginia Tech
25. Chicago - Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia
26. Carolina - Joseph Addai, RB, LSU
27. Tampa Bay - Tamba Hali, DE, Penn St.
28. Jacksonville - Spencer Havner, LB, UCLA
29. Denver - Martin Nance, WR, Miami(OH)
30. Indianapolis - Jon Alston, LB, Stanford
31. Seattle - Chris Chester, G/C, Oklahoma
32. Pittsburgh - Roman Harper, S, Alabama
ROUND 3Quote
1. Houston - Gerris Wilkinson, LB, Georgia Tech
2. Houston - (NO) Danieal Manning, DB, Abilene Christian
3. Green Bay - Max Jean-Gilles, G, Georgia
4. Denver(SF) - Dominique Byrd, TE, USC
5. Oakland - Charles Spencer, OL, Pitt
6. Buffalo (Ten) - Demario Minter, CB, Georgia
7. N.Y. Jets - Brodie Croyle, QB, Alabama
8. Arizona - Ryan O'Callaghan, OL, Cal
9. Buffalo - Bernard Pollard, S, Purdue
10. Detroit - Mark Anderson, DE, Alabama
11. New England (Bal) - Maurice Drew, RB, UCLA
12. Philadelphia - Jeremy Trueblood, OT, Boston College
13. St. Louis - Rodrique Wright, DT, Texas
14. Cleveland - Darryl Tapp, DE/OLB, Virginia Tech
15. Atlanta - Dee Webb, CB, Florida
16. Dallas - Andrew Whitworth, OT, LSU
17. San Diego - Rashad Butler, OT, Miami
18. Miami - Deuce Lutui, G, USC
19. Minnesota - Omar Jacobs, QB, Bowling Green
20. San Francisco (Was) - Babatunde Oshinowo, NT, Stanford
21. Kansas City - Orien Harris, DT, Miami
22. New England - Barry Cofield, DT, Northwestern
23. N.Y. Giants - Jeff Webb, WR, San Diego St.
24. Chicago - Leon Williams, LB, Miami
25. Carolina - Joe Klopfenstein, TE, Colorado
26. Tampa Bay - Tim Jennings, CB, Georgia
27. Cincinnati - Stanley McClover, DE, Auburn
28. Jacksonville - James Wyche, DE, Syracuse
29. Atlanta(Den) - Guy Whimper, OT, East Carolina
30. Indianapolis - Terna Nande, LB, Miami(OH)
31. Minnesota (Sea) - Greg Blue, S, Georgia
32. Pittsburgh - Devin Aromashadu, WR, Auburn
33. NY Jets (Comp pick) - Brian Calhoun, RB, Wisconsin
sinorice what!!?!?!?!!???!!
you used reach yesterday. you need to be punished.
if i even did im sure it was messin around....but if it wasnt then i do deserve some sort of temporary banning
yesterday you said you wanted the full 7 round mock to see who was supposed to go where, so you knew what the reaches were.
you should be banned, from life.
oh that was totally tongue in cheek there...it was i believe in response to ff gettin on me for wanting the full seven rounder
unban
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 11:42:49 AM
oh that was totally tongue in cheek there...it was i believe in response to ff gettin on me for wanting the full seven rounder
unban
fair enough.
thanks dad
your adopted, get a job.
Fox Sports Updated First Round:
Quote
MOCK DRAFT 8.0: Round 1
Pick Team Player Pos. School Previous Rising/Falling High/Low
1. Texans Reggie Bush RB Southern California 1st SAME 1st / 1st
Scouts lump Bush among some of the all-time great running back talents, including LaDainian Tomlinson, Barry Sanders,
O.J. Simpson and Gale Sayers. The Texans aren't going to pass up on the opportunity to add such a rare talent.
2. Saints Matt Leinart QB Southern California 2nd SAME 2nd / 3rd
The Saints will dictate how the rest of the top 10 plays out. Leinart is perceived by most scouts to be the most valuable commodity remaining on the board. Potential franchise quarterbacks are rare, and the Saints will consider the former Trojan even with the free agent addition of Drew Brees. That said, the more likely scenario has the Saints trading down slightly. New Orleans has only two first-day selections. The Titans aren't likely to move up since they have only two first-day picks of their own. The Jets, however, with five picks on the first day (including Nos. 4 and 29 of the first round), have plenty of ammunition. A trade with the Jets would put the Saints in position to add Ferguson at a point of better value, or to fulfill another need at outside linebacker with A.J. Hawk.
3. Titans Vince Young QB Texas 3rd SAME 3rd / 13th
Steve McNair is entering the final year of his contract and his base salary for this season is $9 million. The Titans and McNair are struggling to agree to a restructured contract, and there is no guarantee he will return to the team. The Titans appear to be quite high on Young and likely would take him here if Leinart is off the board. However, given the choice, the team seems to be leaning towards offensive coordinator Norm Chow's former protege from Southern California. The uglier the McNair situation becomes, the more determined the Titans might be to add Leinart due to his knowledge of the offense and readiness to play immediately.
4. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson OT Virginia 4th SAME 2nd / 6th
With five picks on the first day, including two picks in each of the first and third rounds, the Jets certainly have the ammunition to move ahead of Tennessee and select quarterback Matt Leinart if they hold him in the high regard rumored. Should the Jets elect to stand pat, however, Ferguson makes too much sense to pass on if still available.
5. Packers Mario Williams DE N.C. State 5th SAME 2nd / 5th
The Packers could find themselves in the enviable position of picking between the top two rated defenders of the draft. If this scenario played out, the Packers wouldn't hesitate to select Williams.
6. 49ers A.J. Hawk OLB Ohio State 6th SAME 5th / 7th
Tight end Vernon Davis would make a lot of sense here as the team attempts to add weapons for young quarterback Alex Smith, but if Hawk makes it to the sixth pick, the 49ers would be wise to add to their defense first.
7. Raiders Michael Huff DB Texas 7th SAME 7th / 13th
The Raiders love speed and Huff, who ran a 4.34-second 40-yard dash at the combine, has plenty of that. He also would provide the consistent open-field tackler Oakland has been searching for.
8. Bills Vernon Davis TE Maryland 8th SAME 6th / 10th
Most expect the Bills to draft one of the top two defensive tackles, and Brodrick Bunkley and Haloti Ngata certainly would make sense. However, if Davis were to fall into the Bills' lap, his value and immediate impact potential could be too much to pass on. USC tackle Winston Justice could also be a consideration, as his stock continues to rise as the draft approaches.
9. Lions Winston Justice OT Southern California 9th SAME 9th / 18th
Justice's superb pro day effort has his stock skyrocketing as the draft approaches. The Lions started former seventh-round pick Kelly Butler at right tackle last year and though he performed adequately, Justice would provide an immediate upgrade.
10. Cardinals Haloti Ngata DT Oregon 10th SAME 10th / 18th
The Cardinals were among the NFL's worst last season in two areas critical to success: running the football and stopping the run. The addition of free agent Edgerrin James certainly addresses the offensive side and the 6-foot-4, 338-pound Ngata would close defensive gaps.
11. Rams Broderick Bunkley DT Florida State 11th SAME 8th / 11th
The Rams have a great many options with this pick. Outside linebacker, tight end and quarterback Jay Cutler all make sense for various reasons. However, the Rams finished 27th in run defense last season and are seeking to replace two former first-round defensive tackles in Ryan Pickett and Damione Lewis. Bunkley broke the FSU record for tackles for loss in a season with 25 and was one of the top performers at both the Senior Bowl and combine.
12. Browns Kamerion Wimbley DE/OLB Florida State 12th SAME 12th / 18th
The two primary needs for the 3-4 alignment are a nose guard and outside linebackers. Though the Browns addressed each of these positions via free agency, they are still looking for depth. Wimbley would give the club a young pass rusher to soak up knowledge from newly signed Willie McGinist.
13. Ravens Jay Cutler QB Vanderbilt 13th SAME 4th / 13th
Teams are all over the board on Cutler, which could facilitate a slight drop down the board for the former SEC star. The Ravens are looking to add some competition for Kyle Boller and have closely scouted this year's passers. Quarterbacks coach Rick Neuheisel joined the Baltimore scouting staff at the Senior Bowl, where Cutler shined. The Ravens like OT Winston Justice, but his pro day performance may have vaulted him out of Baltimore's reach.
14. Eagles Ernie Sims OLB Florida State 17th (+3) 14th / 23rd
Defensive coordinator Jim Johnson's defense is predicated on pressure and speed. There isn't a faster, more aggressive linebacker in this draft than Sims. He showed his 4.50-second speed in the 40-yard dash at the combine, and has drawn comparisons to another former Seminole, Tampa Bay star Derrick Brooks.
15. Broncos (from Falcons) Chad Jackson WR Florida 15th SAME 14th / 29th
Rod Smith can't last forever and former first-round pick Ashley Lelie continues to struggle with consistency. The Broncos are believed to be targeting Jackson and pass rushers Wimbley and Lawson with this pick, and will simply take their choice of whoever remains.
CONT.
Quote
16. Dolphins Jimmy Williams DB Virginia Tech 16th SAME 11th / 22nd
Nick Saban has shown a willingness to take a chance on inconsistent athletes in the past with Ricky Williams and Manuel Wright. Williams wasn't as dominant at his pro day as expected and struggles with consistency, but is the draft's most gifted cornerback. Some might feel the Dolphins have addressed the need for corners with the recent free agent additions of Will Allen and Andre Goodman, but depth is unreliable.
17. Vikings Chad Greenway LB Iowa 25th (+8) 12th / 31st
The Vikings are looking to add linebackers with speed to play in their Cover-2 scheme. Greenway could slip down the board a bit because he ran a little slower than expected at the combine (4.76) and didn't lift well, but his speed on the field along with instincts and reliable tackling is apparent on film.
18. Cowboys Jason Allen S Tennessee NR (NR) 15th / NR
The Cowboys would like to add a capable athlete to play opposite Pro Bowl strong safety Roy Williams. They re-signed free safety Keith Davis, but he is a special teams dynamo the coaching staff was reluctant to even put in the starting lineup last season. Allen, who missed most of the 2005 season with a dislocated hip, has drawn red flags from some teams, but is still considered a strong first-round value. Picks 18-32 could feature a colossal run on defensive backs.
19. Chargers Tye Hill CB Clemson 19th SAME 15th / 31st
The Chargers have certainly tried to address the cornerback position in the past, as they employ three former first-rounders there. Unfortunately, Quentin Jammer, Sammy Davis and Jamar Fletcher only snared three interceptions between them in 2005. Hill's explosive speed likely assures him being selected in the top 20, even if teams are wary of his less than prototypical size (5-10, 185).
20. Chiefs (from Bills) Johnathan Joseph CB South Carolina 26th (+6) 16th / 30th
After releasing Eric Warfield and Dexter McCleon, the Chiefs will strongly consider top cornerback prospects with their first-round pick. Only Williams and Hill are considered locks for the top 20, however, and the Chiefs might have to reach a little. Joseph is a spectacular talent, but is certainly a gamble as the junior essentially played only one season at the D-I level. Joseph transferred to South Carolina following one season at Coffey Community College and missed most of the 2004 season to a broken foot.
21. Patriots Bobby Carpenter OLB Ohio State 21st SAME 21st / NR
The Patriots rarely draft for need, but with a hole at linebacker and the versatile, instinctive Carpenter on the board, the pick makes too much sense not to be given strong consideration. Besides, with five picks in the top 105, the Patriots have plenty of opportunities to address other needs.
22. 49ers (from Broncos via taterskins) Manny Lawson DE/OLB N.C. State 14th (-8) 11th / NR
With the free-agent departures of outside linebackers Julian Peterson and Andre Carter, the prospect of landing Lawson might have been a driving force behind the 49ers sending second- and third-round picks to Denver for this selection. Lawson posted 10.5 sacks his senior season and has the potential to become a big playmaker in a 3-4 scheme. However, he needs to add more bulk to his 6-5, 241-pound frame.
23. Buccaneers Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State 24th (+1) 14th / NR
A strong defense and the running of rookie Cadillac Williams receives much of the credit for the Bucs making the playoffs last year, but the resurrection of Joey Galloway was arguably the biggest factor. His 83 receptions for 1,287 yards and 10 touchdowns topped his numbers for the previous two seasons combined. It might be asking a bit much for the 34-year-old to repeat that production in 2006. Holmes would provide an immediate upgrade in the slot and would eventually take Galloway's place as the outside vertical threat.
24. Bengals Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State NR (NR) 24th / NR
Cincinnati's top need remains tight end, but cornerbacks present the best value at this point. Youboty continues the Buckeye tradition of producing high quality defensive backs.
25. Giants DeAngelo Williams RB Memphis NR (NR) 21st / NR
The Giants' biggest need remains at outside linebacker, but the run on defenders could drop talented running backs down the board. Tiki Barber finished only 20 yards behind Shaun Alexander for the league's rushing title in 2005, but depth behind him is thin. Williams, the NCAA's career leader with 7,573 all-purpose yards, is a similar prospect who would give the team depth and someone for Barber to eventually pass the torch to.
26. Bears Donte Whinter S Ohio State 27th (+1) 24th / NR
The Bears would love to see the talented and versatile Whitner on the board. He is viewed as athletic and instinctive enough to play either safety position, and there are some who feel he could even play cornerback after showing a quick change of direction and surprising pure speed (4.40) at the combine.
27. Panthers LenDale White RB Southern California 32nd (+5) 14th / 32nd
White's torn hamstring could drop him out of the first round. However, teams willing to look past the injury and focus on his 57 career touchdowns (tying the all-time Pac-10 record) could be rewarded. The Panthers' power running game would be a great fit, and the team is certainly looking for depth at the position with the brittle DeShaun Foster as the starter.
28. Jaguars Antonio Cromartie CB Florida State 18th (-10) 18th / NR
A bit of a surprise here considering the Jaguars have Rashean Mathis and just signed Brian Williams to a big contract. However, vice president of player personnel James Harris has shown a past willingness to gamble on athleticism (see Matt Jones), and Cromartie, at 6-2, 208 pounds, has been characterized as the best athlete at Florida State since Deion Sanders. Cromartie is certainly a gamble, however, as he missed the entire 2005 season with a torn ACL and started just one of 25 games with the Seminoles.
29. Jets (from Broncos) Nick Mangold C Ohio State 29th SAME 28th / NR
What happens with the Jets' first pick, No. 4 overall, obviously will have a huge impact on what the Jets are looking to do here. If they draft Ferguson, they aren't likely to add another lineman in the first round. But if they fill another need at No. 4, Mangold would be a nice addition for a line that recently signed versatile veteran Trey Teague, who can play tackle or center.
30. Colts Laurence Maroney RB Minnesota 30th SAME 24th / 30th
Maroney's vision and smooth running style make him a natural fit for the Colts, who are looking toward the draft to replace Edgerrin James.
31. Seahawks Kelly Jennings CB Miami 20th (-11) 20th / NR
The Seahawks feel their top remaining priority this off-season is their defensive backfield. Jennings' slight frame (5-11, 178 pounds) will drop him down the board a bit, but scouts appreciate his consistency and 40 career starts with the Hurricanes.
32. Steelers Darnell Bing SS Southern California NR (NR) 32nd / NR
The Steelers are expected to address wide receiver or safety with this selection. With no receivers of great value remaining, the best option might be Bing, whose size and athleticism has scouts intrigued.
Fallen from the first round:
# Leonard Pope — Georgia TE (No. 24, Bengals)
# DeMeco Ryans — Alabama OLB (No. 28, Jaguars)
# Mathias Kiwanuka — Boston College DE (No. 31, Seahawks)
I would have no qualms if the Eagles selected Sims. The guy will make an immeidate impact on ST and would find a way onto the field on D by mid-season at the latest. He's a playmaker, and I don't give a shtein if we already had 20 guys who could play WIL on the team... he'll beat them all up and eat their brains for a snack.
sims and moss....yummy
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 12:03:03 PM
sims and moss....yummy
I don't even know how that would be possible.
sims at 14....trade up in the second for moss
is it completely out of the realm of possibility that moss could be there at 45?
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 12:08:07 PM
is it completely out of the realm of possibility that moss could be there at 45?
It's in the realm. Let's just say it's a lot more likely than Tamba Hali in the 5th.
then why do you wonder how getting them both could be possible...or are you saying no way the birds take two players like that
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 20, 2006, 12:09:41 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 12:08:07 PM
is it completely out of the realm of possibility that moss could be there at 45?
It's in the realm. Let's just say it's a lot more likely than Tamba Hali in the 5th.
In the realm. We should toss that phrase too.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 20, 2006, 12:08:07 PM
is it completely out of the realm of possibility that moss could be there at 45?
He could definitely be there at 45....Holmes, Jackson are definitely over him. You could arguably have Stovall, Hagan, and Demetrius Williams over him because of Moss' size and his production (or lack of) at the college level.
'could definitely'....hmmm
id say its somewhere less than that and more than in the realm of possibility
lets just say that if he is there and they dont take him it will be a travesty...provided they didnt take a wr in round one
Ngata, Sims, Holmes or Moss, somehow if we get one or two of them ill be happy.
to get two of those would have to be in the form of moss and either ngata or sims
TSN's seven round mock (from the latest edition of the mag)
1. Chad Jackson WR UF
2. John McCargo DT N.C. State
3. Greg Eslinger C Minnesota
4. Will Blackmon CB Boston College
4. James Anderson OLB VTech
4. Elvis Dumervil DE LooAvull
5. E. J. Whitley OT Texas Tech
5. Mike Bell RB Arizona
6. Jason Avant WR Michigan
7. Alton McCann CB West Virginia
FF Disclaimer: Marck Eckel is the contributer.
There aren't a ton of bad picks in that draft, I guess, but as a whole, it made me vomit in my mouth a little.
Chad Jackson is who I want if we don't get Walker, because we could always go after Wroten in round 2.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 20, 2006, 03:42:45 PM
Chad Jackson is who I want if we don't get Walker
1. Why does that not surprise me?
2. Then again, I thought you said Walker to the Eagles is a stone cold mortal lock?
I did, but the football gods could always overpower me.
Interesting note on Wroten in TSN (not by Eckel) that some scouts have him ahead of both Ngata and Bunkley on talent but character issues have many teams wondering about his commitment.
Also they said that a lot of teams are scared of drafting Simms because he has a history of concussions (five total).
Some "highlights" from an ESPN Insider chat with Sinorice Moss today:
QuoteAdam (Sarasota. FL): Sinorice whats good? What NFL qb right now whould you want throwing you the ball?
Sinorice Moss: Brett Favre. The PAckers are one of my favorite teams. I would love to catch one from him.
Sean Philadelphia, PA: Yo Sinorice I have a 2 questions. 1st 1 is...how much interest have the Philadelphia Eagles shown in you? & #2 would you like to play for the Eagles??
Sinorice Moss: The Eagles have showed great interest in me. I had a visit with them last week. I would love to play in Philadelphia. They told me that they need another receiver.
Brian (Madison, WI): What team has shown the most interest in you up to this point?
Sinorice Moss: I would have to say the Eagles. They have shown the most interest.
David (Dallas TX): What team do you want to be drafted to??
Sinorice Moss: I would love to play for the San Diego Chargers. I would love to be in California. I would love to be a part of their organization.
Antione (Oakland, Ca): Giving your size and exceptional speed what kind of impact do you hope to make as a rookie on the next level?
Sinorice Moss: I'm hoping to get myself on the special teams. The return game. Then I can make some plays and get in on the offense and get to be teh No. 2 or 3 receiver and help the offense.
So, he wants to return kicks and have Brett Favre throwing him the ball in San Diego. But the Eagles have shown the most interest in him. Fantastic.
Jeremy Green of Scouts, Inc.:
QuoteEagles should have pick of WR litter
Although there are many good skill players in the upcoming NFL draft, we are about to see a rarity. For the first time in a long time, there probably will not be a receiver chosen in the first 10 picks of the draft.
In fact, only two receivers -- Ohio State's Santonio Holmes and Florida's Chad Jackson -- are consensus locks to go in the first round.
The third player who is mentioned as a potential first-round pick is Miami's Sinorice Moss. Moss is a dynamic playmaker, but his height (5-foot-8) will scare off many teams and ultimately could land him in the top of the second round.
In general, this wide receiver class is considered average at best. The second-tier guys -- such as Maurice Stovall (Notre Dame), Jason Avant (Michigan), Derek Hagan (Arizona State), Travis Wilson (Oklahoma), Demetrius Williams (Oregon) and Greg Lee (Pittsburgh) -- all have solid height, but they don't offer a ton of big-play potential.
There are definitely some intriguing mid-round talents, such as Devin Aromashodu (Auburn), Todd Watkins (BYU), Jonathon Orr (Wisconsin) and Hank Baskett (New Mexico). These guys have good straight-line or timed speed, but they do not play as fast as they time.
There are four smaller-school guys to keep an eye on: Greg Jennings (Western Michigan), Martin Nance (Miami of Ohio), Brandon Marshall (Central Florida) and Austin Miles (Monmouth). They should come off the board in rounds three through five.
Like every NFL draft, there will be plenty of receivers to choose from. However, this draft is filled with many receivers with holes, and there might be only one or two immediate impact players.
Still, due to the nature of the position and the increased use of multiple-receiver sets, there will be plenty of teams in search of receivers in this draft.
Here is a look at the five teams that have the biggest need at the position.
Pressing need
Philadelphia Eagles: After releasing Terrell Owens, the Eagles are not sure they have a No. 1 receiver. Say what you want about Owens (the person), but you can't instantly replace him as a player on the field. He is a true No. 1 receiver when he steps between the lines.
Second-year receiver Reggie Brown finished last season strong, but it remains to be seen whether he can take that next step. Todd Pinkston missed the entire 2005 season after rupturing his Achilles tendon. A lot was made about his absence, but it's important to keep in mind that Pinkston caught only 36 balls in 2004. The team added Jabar Gaffney (Houston) this offseason. Gaffney was a bit of an underachiever with the Texans, but he was also in an offense that struggled to move the ball consistently through the air.
Outlook: Unless something dramatic happens and someone trades up for a receiver, the Eagles might be the first team poised to select a wide receiver in this draft (they'll pick at No. 14). A lot will depend on what their final rankings say, because they have a lot of needs and could opt to select the highest-rated player on their board. However, if they go receiver, they might have their choice between Holmes or Jackson. The Eagles have receivers with good size, but they lack a consistent playmaker. For that reason, Holmes should be the guy if they take a receiver.
He also lists the Broncos, Dolphins, Chargers (all teams picking in the 5 picks after the Eagles) as teams with a pressing need at WR. Also the Steelers.
He lists the following teams as having a lesser need for a WR, but still looking for one:
Packers, 49ers, Browns, Chiefs, Pats, Bucs, Giants
Eagles draft preview from Scoutsnotebook.com. Long, but pretty good info:
Quote
2006 Philadelphia Eagles Draft Preview
Draft Personnel
Andy Reid- Head Coach/Executive VP of Football Operations
Tom Heckert- General Manager
Jason Licht- VP of Player Personnel
Howie Roseman- VP of Football Administration
Ryan Grigson- Western Regional Scout
Brian Boyse- Eastern Regional Scout
Terry Mickens- College Scout
Sean Gustus- College Scout
Rashaan Curry- College Scout
Andy Speyer- College Scout, Midwest
Anthony Patch- College Scout, West Coast
Keith Fischer- National Scout, Combine
Ahmad Russell- College Scouting Assistant
Draft Philosophy
Obviously the Eagles haven't put out a lot of specifics about their draft philosophies, but some have been stated and some are simply obvious. First to keep in mind is that the Eagles value positions differently then a lot of other teams do. The main thing to keep in mind is that what is valued heavily are the "core positions" of Defensive Line, Offensive Line, Quarterback and Defensive Backs. I've listened to Tom Heckert say directly that if faced with a "core position" player and player of another position of equal value they will always take the "core position" player. Two other things to keep in mind is that the Eagles will select the BPA (best player available) in most cases and that they're not afraid to look towards the future at anytime in the draft process. While positions like Running Back and Linebacker may be important to fans, they are not given the same importance from the Front Office.
Player Fits
Keep in mind that every team grades different players higher then others according to how they fit their defense. While a team like Jacksonville may hold that 6'6" 325lb run stuffing DT in high regards a team like the Eagles may not. Trying to identify potential Eagle's targets in the draft becomes alot easier when you can basically eliminate the types of players that wouldn't necessarily fit them well. Here are a few examples of what I'm talking about.....
Wide Receiver- While everyone likes to talk in terms of #1s and #2s try to look at each player's skillset and how it fits into our West Coast Offense. We have our X receiver and Z receiver and both typically carry different skillsets. You then obviously have your slot receiver in some packages.
- X receiver- Excellent speed and/or the ability to stretch the field is first priority here. Identifying players that can get downfield and allow the intermediate and short routes to develop and get open. While Todd Pinkston is certainly not a great WR, he performs this role well creating a deep threat and keeping opposing defenses on it's heels.
- Z receiver- This is the receiver the offense feeds the ball to. Terrell Owens played the Z. Reggie Brown plays it now. I'd love to give you a specific height or skillset to look for, but we've yet to see a pattern of consistentcy in these areas. Doesn't need to be particularly fast, but the ability to make plays after the catch is something that is a must. With some of the WRs we've drafted we do seem to like taller players here, but it has never been stated.
Running Back- Since Andy Reid has taken over as Head Coach the highest we've drafted a Running Back was with the 13th pick of the 3rd round in Ryan Moats. The second highest RB selected was Brian Westbrook with the 26th pick of the 3rd round. While we can't rule out anything as impossible, I would call it extremely improbable to see a RB ever selected in the 1st round during his tenure. So, to those of you screaming for the Ricky Williams and Steven Jacksons of the world, you may want to skip watching the draft. You don't want an every down RB, you want a different Head Coach or a different offense. We've collected our other RBs on the 2nd day or through free agency.
- Small, Quick RB- Look at guys like Brian Westbrook and Ryan Moats. Smallish guys. Quick, great burst, speedy. Brian has absolutely excellent hands and runs the best routes of any RB in the NFL not named Marshall Faulk. Moats will be developed over time to do the same.
- Large, tough RB- Correll Buckhalter did a great job in this role. His hands got better while he was here, but his between the tackles running style was a great compliment to Westbrook. These aren't guys the Birds pick up in the early rounds, but guys who are willing to share the rock and do their role within the offense.
Offensive Linemen- The one constant I notice with the Eagle's draft habits are to select run blocking linemen which is a bit odd considering the surprising lack of running we actually do. The only thing I can come up with is that perhaps they feel if they have great run blockers they'll do a better job in limited reps and can be fine tuned in the pass protection department.
- Offensive Guard- We haven't often drafted pure Offensive Guards. We typically go after versatile guys here who played Offensive Tackle in college at some point or during their entire career. The other thing that's obvious looking at the roster is that we like size at the position. Andrews is 380, Clarke 335, Hicks 335, etc.
- Offensive Tackle- Reid didn't select Tra Thomas, so while he's a nice player he doesn't really count. While Runyan wasn't a draft pick, Andy did hand select him and shows a what he covets in a RT. Big and nasty on the field. Jon isn't a talker, but he plays with a nasty streak and finishes. We don't go for finesse players at RT. At LT the guy I'd have to go off of would be Todd Herremans. More of a thin build which you'd expect from a LT, but plays with a chip on his shoulder as well.
Defensive Tackle - When spending a high pick in the draft we typically bring in our prototype, 1 gap Defensive Tackles. Look for guys in the 6'2" 295 range. Guys who show great burst, quickness and the ability to penetrate and cause problems on the other side of the line of scrimmage are what we look for. Corey Simon and Mike Patterson would be perfect examples although, Patterson was a bit shorter then normal. In later rounds or undrafted we will bring in larger guys who are more 2 gap, run stuffing types in Keyonte Marshall or Sam Rayburn. Hollis Thomas would be another example, however Andy Reid didn't draft Thomas. Again, attacking gaps, not taking up space at the line of scrimmage is the name of the game.
Defensive End- That 6'2" 265lb range seems to be the favorite of the Eagles. Burgess and McDougle are both right in that range. Trent Cole was a bit lighter, but bulked up before his rookie year. Jim Johnson refers to them as "fastballs". As with every other position, these sizes aren't the rule, but just a trend that we notice when looking back at their draft habits.
Cornerback- It would seem that we like smaller CBs. While we did have Bobby Taylor here, he was not drafted by Reid. Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown are both 5'10". Undrafted nickleback Rod Hood is 5'11". We brought in Donald Strickland at 5'10". Dexter Wynn was drafted more for his return ability, but is also 5'9". Matt Ware was a tweener coming out and a value pick in the late 3rd round. It would seem that we prefer smaller, twitchy players rather then large CBs.
Those are just some examples of things to look for when accessing who the Eagles like. While a fan may like a 6'5" 355lb Defensive Tackle in the draft, the Eagles will most likely not have them very high on their value board, if they're on it at all.
Quote
Team Needs
You can argue many different ways that some of these are more important then others, but I've identified what I think are the Eagle's needs going into the draft. You as a reader or the Eagles themselves may have a very different opinion then me. These are in no particular order.
1. Defensive Tackle- This is the largest need going into the draft in my opinion. I was hoping the Eagles would take a look at La'Roi Glover when he was cut from the Cowboys before free agency starter, however he ended up with his old coach in St.Louis. When I look at the depth on the roster right now I see it this way:
**Mike Patterson- I was absolutely thrilled with this pick last year. Patterson was my prediction for our 1st round pick if we couldn't trade up for WR Mark Clayton and the front office came through in a big way. Last season he looked good early, but hit a rookie wall midway. I expect his second season to be much better, which is usually the case. Lock to make the team this year.
**Darwin Walker- Darwin's level of play has declined over the past two seasons in my opinion and I wonder how much of his mind is on his thriving enginerring company at this point. While I think it's a probability he makes the team this year, I wouldn't be surprised if he was gone in 2007 if his level of play doesn't get back to 2003 form this year.
**Sam Rayburn- Sammy just couldn't get himself healthy last season. If we can get the 6 sack guy back from 2004 it would really help a rotation that struggled at times last season. I think Sam is a lock to make the team.
**Hollis Thomas- Hollis has not had a regular season sack since 2000. He's a trooper and I like the guy, but it's time to part ways and let him go somewhere he fits better. I think Hollis being traded or cut before next season is a certainty.
**Paul Grasmanis- While I hate to lose the last Notre Dame player we have on this roster I think the chances of Paul making the team are slim to none.
**Keyonta Marshall- Allocated to NFL Europe right now and playing pretty well. Will be on the roster, but I don't expect him to get much time in the rotation.
**Ed Jasper- Signed for depth. With a $40,000 signing bonus, he's certainly not a lock to make the team.
The way I see it we have 4 Defensive Tackles going into next season and Marshall is the 5th DT at best. We could draft up to 2 DTs in April or just one and look for a low level free agent in the summer.
2. Linebacker - Matt McCoy barely touched the field last year for reasons we don't know. It could be that the staff didn't feel he was ready yet. If that's the case, it's a bit disturbing to think he wasn't ready enough to get some experience when we had no chance in making the playoffs. The other side of the fence is that the staff just didn't see the point in putting him in there and losing any confidence when there was nothing to play for. Regardless, the kid played with his hair on fire at San Diego State and all that comes in my head when I think of him is an 18 tackle performance against the Wolverines his final year. Shawn Barber was also brought in to help solidify the position. At this point I think we're fine at WLB, but if McCoy doesn't make strides this year that will change.
At SLB is where my concerns lie. Dhani Jones seems to be best suited to play inside. The Eagles have gotten their guys at SLB alot of different ways. Carlos Emmons was a DE in college. Greg Richmond played both DE and LB in college. Dedrick Roper was a DE in college. Jason Short was a DE in college. Dhani Jones played a little bit of all three LB positions at Michigan if I'm not mistaken. The point is that we seem to like former Defensive Ends playing SLB. I'm a huge fan of Jason Short and the tenacity he brings to the field, but I look at him as our special team's leader. I'd love to see someone brought in to eventually replace Dhani Jones here.
In the middle we have Trotter. Two bum knees doesn't seem to make a different with Axeman. I just worry if he does eventually get himself injured with what we have behind him. Simoneau is a solid backup player, but the Eagles needed someone for an extended period of time they'd be forced to move Dhani or McCoy inside at this point in my opinion. It'd be nice to see a mid round pick spent on someone to groom behind Jeremiah.
3. Cornerback- Rod Hood will be an unrestricted free agent next season as will Donald Strickland. That leaves Matt Ware and Dexter Wynn. Frankly, I think the chances of Wynn making the team this year are slim and none. He was drafted more for his punt return ability in my opinion and lost that job to Reno Mahe last year. Ware should get more time based on his higher draft pick, but I'm sure everyone expects him to contribute much more this season. I'd expect a mid to late round selection here. We had Al Harris, whom Andy Reid inherited that was a 6th round pick and now Rod Hood who was picked up as an undrafted free agent out of Auburn.
4. Safety- Both Brian Dawkins and Michael Lewis hit free agency after this season. One would hope the Eagles will re-sign Brian Dawkins at the end of the season if he's still playing at a relatively high level. Michael Lewis has had his ups and downs over the past few years. Very physical playing up in the box, but lacks elite coverage skills. Was inconsistent in 2005 which is why I believe they didn't extend him. While Lewis is one of the better Strong Safeties in the league he could be upgraded. Sean Considine was drafted last year and is more suited to play the strong side, but could play either position. Quintin Mikell will also be an unrestricted free agent following the season.
5. Quarterback- Koy Detmer may be a great guy and holder, but we're at the point now where the Eagles need to start grooming a solid backup to Donovan for the future. Jeff Garcia was brought in as a backup, but I question how much he really has left in the tank after seeing him in limited action with the Lions. I expect a mid round pick to be used here.
6. Wide Receiver- Reggie Brown was drafted last season and will be our Z receiver going into the season. Jabar Gaffney was brought in from Houston and will most likely play the slot. If Todd Pinkston is fully healthy he'll be starting at the X spot as usual. Pinkston can obviously be upgraded. Greg Lewis is signed to a long term contract and is fine as the 4th receiver to be used in spot duty. Fighting it out for a job behind them will be Billy McMullen, Darnerian McCants, Michael Gasperson and Justin Jenkins. I'm not sure anyone's job in necessarily safe behind Brown and Gaffney going into the season, so I wouldn't be surprised to see someone brought in at any point of the draft.
7. Big Back/Fullback- Thomas Tapeh is apparently 100% after his hip injury and will probably perform both duties, however I wouldn't be surprised to see a later round prospect brought in to compete alongside him, Buckhalter and Bruce Perry.
Quote
What will be the Eagle's goal?
For the most part, I feel the Eagles are again in a position to draft based on value alone. The first goal in my mind would be to improve the pass rush at the DT position very early in the draft. The Eagles will try to get younger along the Defensive Line and I expect to see a few picks spent at both DT and LDE. I also believe one of the goals will be to improve secondary, preferably with at least one player that can help in the return game. The SLB position is another I think they'll have a particular interest in adding talent to challenge Dhani Jones at some point in the near future.
You look at our current roster and there are positions that could be bare in the next few seasons. Will Michael Lewis be re-signed? What's the future for Brian Dawkins? Is Tra Thomas cut or traded in the future? Who will be our Nickle CB? If Sheldon Brown were to move to FS, who is the future next to Lito Sheppard? Who is the future at the X receiver position? Not sure Todd Pinkston will be around much longer. Who is our backup QB of the future? Can't see it being Koy or Garcia. How about Trotter? These are all places the Eagles could look at if a player of extreme value or fit falls to them.
This front office has shown long term vision in the past with their drafts. Fans will often slam the picks as pointless, but we've had some very smooth transitions as a result. When Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent left, Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown stepped right in. When Duce left, Brian Westbrook stepped in. As always, we will re-stock the future with talent through the draft.
If you're looking for specifics, I can only speculate. I expect DT and WR to be addressed on the 1st day of the draft. I also expect SLB to be addressed by the 4th round. Backup QB will almost certainly be addressed. Safety will need to be looked at as will CB. I think we could add a player to compete at virtually any other position.
Who will the Eagles take in the 1st round?
I do think the Eagles could try to trade up and secure one of the two top DTs in the draft in Haloti Ngata and Brodrick Bunkley. My preference would be Loti, but I'd be thrilled with either player. Another possibility is Winston Justice who is a left tackle from Southern Cal. Two other players that come to mind are Florida's Chad Jackson and Ohio State's Santonio Holmes at WR. Both would give us the future to Todd Pinkston at the X receiver. Finally, while it goes against what we've learned in the Reid era, keep an eye on Chad Greenway from Iowa. Greenway played WLB at Iowa, however he could end up moving over to the strong side in our system as an NFL weight room will help him get stronger. Greenway has elite coverage skills and could give tight ends problems. The Eagles were all over Greenway at the Senior Bowl and were heard talking about him on their own numberous times by a colleague of ours in Mobile with another draft site. Obviously, if Michael Huff were to fall for some strange reason I think the Eagles would consider him as well. As for the Ernie Sims speculation, I see it as unlikely. While I would love to have Ernie here, I see him as a pure WLB prospect in our system.
My Draft Board if I'm running the Eagles:
I have omitted players from certain positions because I simply don't see it as an option for the team, hence the QB position. Obviously while I list the RBs, it's virtually insane to think they'd draft one in the early rounds. This is where players would be on my board for the Eagles.
1st Round
QB- None
RB- Reggie Bush, DeAngelo Williams, Laurence Maroney
WR- Santonio Holmes, Chad Jackson
TE- Vernon Davis
OT- D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Winston Justice
C- Nick Mangold
DT- Haloti Ngata, Brodrick Bunkley
DE- Mario Williams, Mathias Kiwanuka, Kamerion Wimbley
MLB- D'Qwell Jackson
OLB- AJ Hawk, Chad Greenway, Ernie Sims, Bobby Carpenter (Sims is at 2nd for other teams for me, but Greenway moves up with the SLB potential)
CB- None
S- Michael Huff, Donte Whitner
2nd Round
QB- None
RB- Joseph Addai, Brian Calhoun
WR- Demetrius Williams, Maurice Stovall, Derek Hagan, Sinorice Moss, Brandon Marshall
TE- Anthony Fasano, Marcedes Lewis
OT- Eric Winston
OG- Davin Joseph, Charles Spencer
DT- John McCargo, Claude Wroten, Babatunde Oshinowo
DE- Tamba Hali, Darryl Tapp
OLB- Thomas Howard, DeMeco Ryans, Rocky McIntosh
CB- None
S- Daniel Bullocks, Ko Simpson, Darnell Bing, Anthony Smith
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3rd Round
QB- None
RB- Maurice Drew
WR- Greg Jennings, Mike Hass
TE- Leonard Pope, Joel Klopfenstein
OT- Andrew Whitworth, Ryan O'Callaghan
OG- Kevin Boothe, Taitusi Lutui, Max Jean-Gilles
DT- Jesse Mahelona, Jonathan Lewis
DE- Parys Haralson, Mark Anderson, Stanley McClover, Elvis Dumervil
OLB- Ryan LaCasse, Clint Ingram
CB- DeMario Minter, Will Blackmon
S- Pat Watkins, Danieal Manning
ATH- Devin Hester
4th Round
QB- Darrell Hackney, Brody Croyle, Omar Jacobs
RB- Mike Bell, Gerald Riggs Jr, Andre Hall, Jerious Norwood
WR- Brandon Williams, Jason Avant, Skyler Green, Jeff Webb, Willie Reid
TE- TJ Williams, Tony Scheffler
OG- Rob Sims, Fred Matua, Greg Eslinger
C- Chris Chester
DT- Dusty Dvoracek, Kyle Williams, Barry Cofield, Montavious Stanley
DE- Victor Adeyanju
OLB- Travis Williams, Jon Alston
MLB- Gerris Wilkinson, Anthony Schlegel, Freddie Roach
CB- Charles Gordon, David Pittman, Gerrick McPhearson
S- Roman Harper, Bernard Pollard
All ND Draft Team (Non 1st Round Players)
QB: Darrell Hackney, UAB
RB: Maurice Drew, UCLA
FB: Matt Bernstein, Wisconsin
TE: Anthony Fasano, Notre Dame
WR: Mike Hass, Oregon State
WR: Brandon Williams, Wisconsin
WR: Greg Jennings, Western Michigan
OT: Andrew Whitworth, California
OG: Rob Sims, Ohio State
C: Chris Chester, Oklahoma
OG: Kevin Boothe, Cornell
OT: Paul McQuistan, Weber State
DE: Darryl Tapp, DE VaTech
DT: John McCargo, NC State
DT: Montavious Stanley, Louisville
DE: Chris Gocong, DE Cal Poly
OLB: Ryan LaCasse, Syracuse
MLB: Anthony Schlegel, Ohio State
OLB: Rocky McIntosh, Miami
CB: Will Blackmon, Boston College
S: Keon Jackson, Toledo
S: Trevis Coley, Southern Miss
CB: Charles Gordon, Kansas
Since Defensive Tackle seems to be the main talk from Eagle's fans on what we need to address (I agree with this sentiment), here are some names to keep an eye on.....
Projected Prospect Fits at Defensive Tackle
Haloti Ngata, Oregon - While he's not our typical type, he is quick enough to play the 3 technique and has an absolutely tremendous upside. Think Sam Adams here.
Brodrick Bunkley, Florida State- Great fit for our defense.
John McCargo, NC State- A guy I've been high on since September that came out early. Probably the best fit for the Birds in the draft.
Claude Wroten, LSU- Exceptional athlete. Plays a bit reckless, so I'm not sure JJ would be high on him. Ideal fit for a team like Atlanta. Some off field issues.
Jesse Mahelona, Tennessee- Smallish, but great effort.
Jonathan Lewis, Virginia Tech- Smallish, but again, great effort.
Kyle Williams, LSU- Kyle plays with his hair on fire. Probably a mid rounder. Could sneak into the 3rd round.
Dusty Dvoracek, Oklahoma- Another guy who plays with reckless abandon. 1st day talent, but off field issues will knock him into Day 2.
Barry Cofield, Northwestern- Probably will go higher then expected as a 34 DE.
Montavious Stanley, Louisville- Good hustle guy. Not a great fit though.
Manase Hopoi, Washington- Very good Junior season followed by rough Senior year with a new defensive coach and scheme.
LeKevin Smith, Nebraska- Late rounder. Not the best fit, but we could take him.
Nick Leaders, Iowa State- Probably a UDFA guy. Athletic.
Scott Paxson, Penn State- Should have long and productive career as a rotational DT. Off field issues could make him a UDFA.
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My 5 Favorite 1st Round Players
1. Haloti Ngata, DT Oregon
2. Ernie Sims, OLB Florida State
3. Chad Greenway, OLB Iowa
4. Bobby Carpenter, OLB Ohio State
5. John McCargo, DT NC State
My 5 Favorite 2nd/3rd Round Players
1. Claude Wroten, DT LSU
2. Anthony Fasano, TE Notre Dame
3. Rocky McIntosh, OLB Miami
4. Chris Gocong, OLB/DE Cal Poly
5. Kevin Boothe, OG Cornell
My 5 Favorite Mid Round Players
1. Ryan LaCasse, OLB/DE Syracuse
2. Clint Ingram, OLB Oklahoma
3. Darrell Hackney, QB UAB
4. Brandon Williams, WR/RS Wisconsin
5. Rob Sims, OG Ohio State
My 5 Favorite Late Round/Undrafted Players
1. Manase Hopoi, DT Washington
2. Garrett McIntyre, DT/DE Fresno State
3. Steve Fifita, DT Utah
4. Scott Paxson, DT Penn State
5. Keon Jackson, SS Toledo
Best Pure Pass Rushers
1. Mario Williams, DE NC State
2. Kamerion Wimbley, DE Florida State
3. Elvis Dumervil, DE Louisville
4. Chris Gocong, DE/OLB Cal Poly
5. Ryan LaCasse, DE/OLB Syracuse
Best Pure Hitters
1. Greg Blue, SS Georgia
2. Trevis Coley, FS Southern Miss
3. AJ Hawk, OLB Ohio State
4. Kevis Coley, ILB Southern Miss
5. Dwayne Slay, SS Texas Tech
Most Explosive Offensive Players
1. Reggie Bush, RB Southern Cal
2. Vernon Davis, TE Maryland
3. Maurice Drew, RB UCLA
4. Santonio Holmes, WR Ohio State
5. Laurence Maroney, RB Minnesota
Serious talent, but serious character issues.....
1. AJ Nicholson, OLB Florida State
2. Marcus Vick, QB VaTech
3. Dusty Dvoracek, DT Oklahoma
4. Winston Justice, OT Southern Cal
5. Claude Wroten, DT LSU
Most Overrated Players (no particular order)
Gabe Watson, DT Michigan
Rodrique Wright, DT Texas
Orien Harris, DT Miami
Leonard Pope, TE Georgia
Sinorice Moss, WR Miami
Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
Max Jean-Gilles, OG Georgia
LenDale White, RB Southern Cal
Winston Justice, OT Southern Cal
Most Underrated Players (no particular order)
Anthony Smith, FS Syracuse
Ryan LaCasse, OLB/DE Syracuse
John McCargo, DT NC State
Rocky McIntosh, OLB Miami
Chris Gocong, OLB/DE Cal Poly
Clint Ingram, OLB Oklahoma
Keon Jackson, SS Toledo
Babatunde Oshinowo, DT Stanford
David Kirtman, FB Southern Cal
Quote from: MadMarchHare on April 20, 2006, 10:56:02 AM
Dude, I'm fanatical about the Birds, but I don't think I could get angry enough over a draft pick to cause collateral damage. I save that for game day.
I save that for playoff games.
moss......get
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 21, 2006, 08:39:55 AM
moss......get
but he wants to be catching passes from Favre in San Diego
give san diego one of the 4ths and bring farve to philly!!!!
... and go undefeated!!!1!1!1!
theres a draft kid from yahoo on with gargano now
--hes saying the draft is way bigger than the superbowl
--says justices pro day was the best hes ever seen from a o lineman
--loves addai
--bunkley has surpassed ngata in teams eyes...will not be there for the birds
--doesnt think the dt position is that thin to have to use their 1st on
the end
damn im bored
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 21, 2006, 11:40:06 AM
theres a draft kid from yahoo on with gargano now
--hes saying the draft is way bigger than the superbowl
--loves addai
Sure seems that way. Every where I've been the draft is the main topic for any sports fan. No one gives a rats ass about baseball, hockey playoffs, NBA playoffs. I was on the Big island of Hawaii this week and ran into one of my customers in a grocery store and we talked about the draft for an hour in the cereal aisle! I was very impressed with his knowledge as he said he'd love to see the birds take Sims.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 21, 2006, 11:40:06 AM
--loves addai
Almost forgot, this kid will be the steal of the draft. I love him to.
Hugh Douglas on WIP said he doesn't get the feeling that they like Ngata, Bunkley or any of the names being thrown around. He thinks they'll take Gabe Watson at 14, because he's heard from people on the Eagles that they really like him.
Take it FWIW.
wouldnt be surprised considering that Watson isnt being mentoned there... Im not a fan of taking him at 14 at all, but if Bunkley and Ngata are gone I guess they may be worried their guy wont be there later on. :sly
I'd rather take Chad Jackson at 14 than Watson. If we don't get Walker, then Chad Jackson in round 1 is a must. Simply because he's the best WR available for this system and there is plenty of talent in the 2nd round for DT. Like Watson who is a 2nd round guy, and Wroten. Even if he is a bit of a reach, it's better than trading down 3 spots and having someone take him right before you, because Jackson will go in the 17-20 range.
Why do we need jackson, we are getting Walker
Did you even read the post?
Nope ;D I just think it's funny you believe we will get Walker.
Funny how?
Like a clown
You didn't explain why it's funny to think we have a shot to get Walker. Probably because you have nothing to logically back yourself up.
Why do I not think the Eagles will get him, hmmmm. well, for one he's pulled a mini T.O. on the packers either last year or the year before where he wanted an extension to his contract. He is coming off a big injury, The F.O. would have to give up draft picks, The entire franchise and fan based was just used and abused by T.O. (shell shock maybe). The F.O. except for the one deal for T.O. do not value the WR position enough to get studs. We are 15 plus mil under the cap, thats a little too close for Banner already, he might need to save some cash if Westy goes down and he has to sign Levens again. They have not gone after (as far as we know, and other then Howard) any other big time name this offseason. Now you expect them to get Walker with GB giving them up to a conference rival? Yeah I say it won't happen, let's here your logic behind the deal.
Quote from: phillymic2000 on April 22, 2006, 04:33:24 PM
Why do I not think the Eagles will get him, hmmmm. well, for one he's pulled a mini T.O. on the packers either last year or the year before where he wanted an extension to his contract. He is coming off a big injury, The F.O. would have to give up draft picks, The entire franchise and fan based was just used and abused by T.O. (shell shock maybe). The F.O. except for the one deal for T.O. do not value the WR position enough to get studs. We are 15 plus mil under the cap, thats a little too close for Banner already, he might need to save some cash if Westy goes down and he has to sign Levens again. They have not gone after (as far as we know, and other then Howard) any other big time name this offseason. Now you expect them to get Walker with GB giving them up to a conference rival? Yeah I say it won't happen, let's here your logic behind the deal.
You are a bitter grumpy negadelphian. I don't even think you are worth my time to comment to this dread of a post, but I'll humor you and respond anyway.
For one, Walker is completely unrelated to TO. He never trashed his own teammates and never caused any problems. The Eagles didn't cut TO loose because he held out. Players have down that here before(Westbrook last year even). The Eagles cut TO loose because he caused so many locker room problems it was a joke. So your point on that has nothing to do with anything.
Coming off a big injury... well yeah, he is. But who doesn't recover from ACL injuries these days? For every 1 player that doesn't 15 players do recover from it. Hell, McGahee recovered from the worst knee injury I've ever seen. With today's modern technology and medicine, this isn't as much of a concern as it used to be.
The Eagles do value the position and having to give up draft picks isn't a big deal. They've said before if they really want a player, they'll go after him strongly. If the Broncos outbid the Eagles then so be it, but I don't see the Eagles lowballing the Packers in a trade offer.
15 million under the cap, and that's a little too close already? Please, your bitterness and negativity is oozing out of your pores. Just come out and say you hate the way this team does business already. I know that is where you are getting at.
What do other big name free agents have to do with Walker? The Eagles sign players who they like. They've said this before. It's not about shying away from big names or getting players on discounts. If a player is out there that they truly like, then they will go after them. They obviously didn't like this crop of free agents. Andy loved Walker since FSU. I think Andy would love to have him here.
You sound like a person who has no confidence whatsoever in this front office. It is the reason I made that topic. Some posters here just think the Eagles are allergic to big-time players. If you have any confidence in this front office, then you'll think they will go after Walker. Whether or not they get him is a different story, but if you don't think they'll do their best to get him, then saying you have confidence in this front office is a lie. After the disappointing offseason, a lot of posters have been mentally drained IMO. There was so much excitement for a lot of players, and after a lot of them didn't come here, everyone's tune has changed. Now we have no shot at anybody apparently. If a player is a big name, then cross him off your list, because we have no shot at him.
That is what I call bitter.
Oh please man, I am not bitter or a negawhatever. I have chosen not to get too excited at possible Free Agent moves by the Front Office.
Salary Cap= how much were we under all of last year? it had to be at least 10 mil the entire season, thats why I am doubting on the cap point.
Wr position= other then T.O. what wr would be called a #1 ? Pinky/Lewis/Brown (Na not Reggie)/Freddie/Johnson/Small
Injury= and injury is still an injury.
Walker and teammates= Yeah him and Favre were just buddy buddy during his "negotiations".
I have confidence in this F.O. they have brought this city and it's fans a lot of success we have not seen in some time over the past few years. What I am concerned about is the fact that every other team in the NFC East is continuing to add quality players. Every East team has a better WR crew then the birds and we pass the most, thats not a concern to you? and as far as me lieing if I don't think the Eagles will go after him is bunk. What after all is said and done it comes out that the Eagles F.O. didn't really pursue him, what will you say then. You have no clue what the F.O. will do just as I don't either. I don'tthink they are interested in Walker, you do. If that makes you think you a better Eagles fan then me then yes that makes me laugh really hard.
Quote from: phillymic2000 on April 22, 2006, 04:58:03 PM
Oh please man, I am not bitter or a negawhatever. I have chosen not to get too excited at possible Free Agent moves by the Front Office.
Salary Cap= how much were we under all of last year? it had to be at least 10 mil the entire season, thats why I am doubting on the cap point.
Wr position= other then T.O. what wr would be called a #1 ? Pinky/Lewis/Brown (Na not Reggie)/Freddie/Johnson/Small
Injury= and injury is still an injury.
Walker and teammates= Yeah him and Favre were just buddy buddy during his "negotiations".
I have confidence in this F.O. they have brought this city and it's fans a lot of success we have not seen in some time over the past few years. What I am concerned about is the fact that every other team in the NFC East is continuing to add quality players. Every East team has a better WR crew then the birds and we pass the most, thats not a concern to you? and as far as me lieing if I don't think the Eagles will go after him is bunk. What after all is said and done it comes out that the Eagles F.O. didn't really pursue him, what will you say then. You have no clue what the F.O. will do just as I don't either. I don'tthink they are interested in Walker, you do. If that makes you think you a better Eagles fan then me then yes that makes me laugh really hard.
Quality players like who? Randle El? Bum. Lloyd? Average. Arrington? Average. TO? Good but a problem. Fabini? Sucks.
I don't see all this great talent the NFC East added. The Eagles added as good of players as anyone in the NFC East.
Chad Jackson will be a bust.
As for Gabe Watson at 14? No thanks.
I wouldn't mind Gabe at all, but not at 14. If Bunkley and Ngata are gone then trade back to the mid-20's and take Watson.
I don't think Jackson will be a bust. He's got skills. He accelerates very fast. He's explosive, jumps high and is quick. He's better than any receiver out there except for Holmes, but Holmes' size scares me so I'd prefer Jackson.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5470428#lb
Go there for a highlight reel of Jackson. I know that doesn't show everything he's done, and only shows the good plays, but still. From watching him play in games, and videos, I can tell he's going to be a good player. He's got that explosiveness.
I keep going back to that he was not a 1st round graded WR prior to the combine. Then he blows the doors off of people when he ran his 40. Now he's being talked about as being a top 20 pick.
No sir, I don't like it.
The WR class as a whole this year is junk. And Chad Jackson is being helped by that situation. In an average to good WR draft class he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round guy.
Quite a few Eagles fans see 4.32 + no other good high draft picks at WR + a need at WR on the team and they think Jackson should be drafted at 14.
LIke I said, I would prefer to see them draft Jeff Webb, Brandon Marshall or Greg Jennings later on. I would still want one of those guys in the 4th-5th-6th even if they take Stovall at 45.
I agree that him not being a first rounder prior to the combine scares me too, but other than Holmes, and Moss there aren't any receivers out there who have that explosiveness. They are all pretty much possession receivers, without any YAC ability. Players like Stovall, Marshall all fit that bill. Plus, guys who study tape like Kiper have him as the best or 2nd best receiver in the draft. So it's not all combine.
I like a receiver who can take a pass 80 yards to the house. I don't want another possession type of receiver on this team. We have that in Gaffney now. We need another scoring threat to play opposite Brown.
Jackson gives you that. Plus, most mocks had him early 2nd before the combine, so it's not like he's risen that far. He's not Matt Jones.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 22, 2006, 06:21:40 PM
I agree that him not being a first rounder prior to the combine scares me too, but other than Holmes, and Moss there aren't any receivers out there who have that explosiveness. They are all pretty much possession receivers, without any YAC ability. Players like Stovall, Marshall all fit that bill. Plus, guys who study tape like Kiper have him as the best or 2nd best receiver in the draft. So it's not all combine.
I like a receiver who can take a pass 80 yards to the house. I don't want another possession type of receiver on this team. We have that in Gaffney now. We need another scoring threat to play opposite Brown.
Jackson gives you that. Plus, most mocks had him early 2nd before the combine, so it's not like he's risen that far. He's not Matt Jones.
Dude your argument makes zero sense. The guy
is not a number one based on anything anyone has seen so far. "Guys who study tape like Kiper" have said repeatedly there is no clear cut number one receiver in this draft. You spend a fourteenth pick on a WR who has all the makings of a number one - not because he is the best of an at best average receiving class. You know what Gaffney ran in the combine? 4.4. Most "experts" had him pegged as one of the best WRs in '02. Where is he now? Taking Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes at 14 because they are at the top of a zesty class is asinine. Arguing the contrary is asinine. The team would be much better suited drafting just about anything else at 14 other than receiver. There is no value at 14 in terms of WRs.
There are a lot of "lesser 1st round" players I'd rather have at #14. Bobby Carpenter immediately comes to mind.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 23, 2006, 11:07:47 AM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 22, 2006, 06:21:40 PM
I agree that him not being a first rounder prior to the combine scares me too, but other than Holmes, and Moss there aren't any receivers out there who have that explosiveness. They are all pretty much possession receivers, without any YAC ability. Players like Stovall, Marshall all fit that bill. Plus, guys who study tape like Kiper have him as the best or 2nd best receiver in the draft. So it's not all combine.
I like a receiver who can take a pass 80 yards to the house. I don't want another possession type of receiver on this team. We have that in Gaffney now. We need another scoring threat to play opposite Brown.
Jackson gives you that. Plus, most mocks had him early 2nd before the combine, so it's not like he's risen that far. He's not Matt Jones.
Dude your argument makes zero sense. The guy is not a number one based on anything anyone has seen so far. "Guys who study tape like Kiper" have said repeatedly there is no clear cut number one receiver in this draft. You spend a fourteenth pick on a WR who has all the makings of a number one - not because he is the best of an at best average receiving class. You know what Gaffney ran in the combine? 4.4. Most "experts" had him pegged as one of the best WRs in '02. Where is he now? Taking Chad Jackson or Santonio Holmes at 14 because they are at the top of a zesty class is asinine. Arguing the contrary is asinine. The team would be much better suited drafting just about anything else at 14 other than receiver. There is no value at 14 in terms of WRs.
Chad Jackson is the either the best or 2nd best receiver in this draft. It's not about value. It's about getting the best player at a position of need in the draft. So why would you wait until the 2nd or 3rd round to get a player like Stovall who isn't as good?
People get WAY WAY overboard with this value crap. Value is 100% based on mock drafts. We all say taking Jackson at 14 is too high because a bunch of mock drafts have him going 20. How do you know Denver won't take him at 15? We don't know what the hell is going to happen. If you want a player you take him at 14. It's that simple. You don't trade down to 20 thinking he'll be there simply because a bunch of mock drafts have him going there.
You may think you have an idea as to where he is going to go, so then you trade down and risk not getting the guy at all. What is more important? Getting the guy you want or getting value for him? The #1 thing is to get the guy. Getting value for the guy is only a bonus, because if you trade down you risk not getting him period. That is why I always hate trading down.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 22, 2006, 06:18:53 PM
I keep going back to that he was not a 1st round graded WR prior to the combine. Then he blows the doors off of people when he ran his 40. Now he's being talked about as being a top 20 pick.
No sir, I don't like it.
The WR class as a whole this year is junk. And Chad Jackson is being helped by that situation. In an average to good WR draft class he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round guy.
Quite a few Eagles fans see 4.32 + no other good high draft picks at WR + a need at WR on the team and they think Jackson should be drafted at 14.
LIke I said, I would prefer to see them draft Jeff Webb, Brandon Marshall or Greg Jennings later on. I would still want one of those guys in the 4th-5th-6th even if they take Stovall at 45.
Neither did Lawson, Wimbley, and your boy Bunkley. So I don't put much stock into what they were graded before the combine. I did think the birds were going to take him at 14, but I am not so sure now, I think they could get better value in the 2nd or 3rd round.
I really like Holmes, but I don't think he's right for this team. I like Chad Jackson a lot for this team. He's got size and speed, and big hands. He also jumps high and can go up and get the ball. If we can't get Walker, give me Jackson at 14. I don't want any part of the bigger possession receivers in the later rounds. They'd be nice if we had a #1 play along with Reggie Brown already, but not as the guys to go opposite Reggie.
We can still address DT later in the draft with good value, because if we get Walker, then we won't have the ammunition to move up in the draft to get Bunkley or Ngata anyway, so we might as well take WR in round 1 and take a DT in round 2. Because Watson and Wroten are both late round 1 early round 2 DTs.
But still, and I was thinking of this earlier. Say Denver offers their second rounder for Walker, and say the Eagles' plan is if they don't get Walker then to take Jackson at 14. Well if they are going to take a receiver at 14 anyway, then why not just deal your first for Walker? Something I was thinking about.
The reason I don't want Jackson is because the Eagles are good enough to contend for a Super Bowl this season and I don't think that there are many rookie WRs that will help us all that much. Yes, Reggie Brown was a major contributor during his rookie year, but in the Eagles' system he's the exception rather than the rule. I think Jackson is a very promising young wideout but he's not a Randy Moss, Anquan Boldin, or even Michael Clayton type stud that's going to go for 1200 yards in his rookie year, especially in the Eagles' offense. Jackson is probably going to be a better player than Stovall down the road but in all honesty I think they'd contribute about an equal amount as rookies in the Eagles' offense, so I'd much rather use the 1st rounder on a RB, DT, OL, or LB and use the 3rd to get Stovall or, better yet, trade for Javon Walker.
Quote from: PhillyandBCEagles on April 23, 2006, 06:18:02 PM
The reason I don't want Jackson is because the Eagles are good enough to contend for a Super Bowl this season and I don't think that there are many rookie WRs that will help us all that much. Yes, Reggie Brown was a major contributor during his rookie year, but in the Eagles' system he's the exception rather than the rule. I think Jackson is a very promising young wideout but he's not a Randy Moss, Anquan Boldin, or even Michael Clayton type stud that's going to go for 1200 yards in his rookie year, especially in the Eagles' offense. Jackson is probably going to be a better player than Stovall down the road but in all honesty I think they'd contribute about an equal amount as rookies in the Eagles' offense, so I'd much rather use the 1st rounder on a RB, DT, OL, or LB and use the 3rd to get Stovall or, better yet, trade for Javon Walker.
I highly disagree. As this team currently stands, I think it's a 7-9 team.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 23, 2006, 06:20:23 PM
I highly disagree. As this team currently stands, I think it's a 7-9 team.
If they're a 7-9 team without Chad Jackson, they're a 7-9 team with Chad Jackson too.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 23, 2006, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 23, 2006, 06:20:23 PM
I highly disagree. As this team currently stands, I think it's a 7-9 team.
If they're a 7-9 team without Chad Jackson, they're a 7-9 team with Chad Jackson too.
Exactly
I was listening to the NFL Radio this afternoon and they were convinced the Eagles were not going to take a receiver in the first, they seem to think the Eagles will take a LB in round 1. If they take one I want it to be in this order Carpenter, Ryans, and Greenway. It would be preferable that they trade down and take one of those guys but if they took one of them at 14 I wouldn't be too upset.
An interesting article on the Eagles and their draft trends (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/99-04232006-645729.html).
QuoteWill Eagles follow trend?
By REUBEN FRANK
Bucks County Courier Times
Andy Reid has been at this for quite a while now. Next weekend's NFL draft will be his eighth as head coach of the Eagles, his fifth working with Tom Heckert. So it's now possible to step back and look at his draft-weekend body of work and figure out some interesting trends.
Some trends that may shed some light on his plans for next weekend.
The Eagles, coming off their first losing season since 1999, own 10 picks in the upcoming draft, including three of the first 76 choices and six of the first 127.
Last year's draft produced five promising players: First-round pick Mike Patterson started most of the year at defensive tackle; second-round pick Reggie Brown broke the franchise rookie receiver records with 43 catches; third-round pick Ryan Moats averaged 5.1 yards per carry and scored three TDs in late-season action; fourth-round pick Todd Herremans played well in four mid-season starts at left tackle; and fifth-round pick Trent Cole finished second on the team with 5.0 sacks.
With the draft six days away, let's examine some trends and patterns from Reid's first seven drafts:
Reid loves drafting OL
It shouldn't be surprising that nearly a quarter of Reid's draft picks have been offensive linemen. Reid played offensive line in college and coached offensive linemen most of his career.
Many have been late-round picks — five in the sixth or seventh round — but Reid has also misfired on several offensive linemen with premium picks. Bobbie Williams was a two, Doug Brzezinski was a three, Scott Peters a four.
Reid has drafted 58 players and 13 have been offensive linemen. That's 22 percent. Significantly, none of those 13 has made a Pro Bowl and only one — Shawn Andrews — projects as a 2006 starter, although Herremans will certainly get a chance to compete at left guard.
DTs go very early or very late
Many believe the Eagles will again take a defensive tackle in the first round. If they don't, they might not take one at all.
In Reid's seven drafts, he has never drafted a defensive tackle anywhere other than the first or last round. Corey Simon and Patterson were both ones and other than a couple seventh-round picks (Pernell Davis in 1999, Keyonta Marshall last year) those are the only defensive tackles he's drafted.
That's left the Eagles with Ray Rhodes holdovers (Hollis Thomas), other teams' castoffs (Darwin Walker), aging veterans (Paul Grasmanis) and undrafted free agents (Sam Rayburn).
Don't draft LBs in second round
Linebacker is one of only two positions that Reid has used three picks in the first two rounds to draft (wide receiver the other). But none of those linebackers — Barry Gardner, Quintin Caver and Matt McCoy — has become a productive player.
The jury is still out on McCoy, who spent most of his rookie season last fall in street clothes, but considering that Gardner, Caver and McCoy were picked 35th, 55th and 63rd overall, you expect at least one of them to become an impact player.
No gems in late rounds
The Eagles have found a couple good players in the later rounds — fifth-round pick A.J. Feeley won some games at the end of the 2002 season and 2004 seventh-round choices Bruce Perry and Adrien Clarke are strong prospects — but those late-round finds have been few and far between.
Of the 25 players Reid has drafted in the fifth through seventh rounds, only two became full-time NFL starters. One was Cecil Martin, who was an adequate starting fullback for a few years; the other was defensive end Raheem Brock, who the Eagles were unable to sign and is now a starter with the Colts.
Eagles in receivership
Reid has drafted eight wide receivers — more than any position other than offensive line. But although Brown showed great potential last year, none of those eight has ever had a 1,000-yard season and those eight have combined for just three career 100-yard games (all by Todd Pinkston).
Only one of the eight (Brown) was an NFL starter last year and only three are still in the league.
Offense over defense
Reid has dramatically favored offense on draft weekend. Of the 58 players he's drafted, 34 have been offensive and just 24 defensive.
But only two of those 34 offensive players have reached a Pro Bowl as an Eagle (Donovan McNabb and Brian Westbrook), compared to three of 24 defensive players (Simon, Michael Lewis, Lito Sheppard).
End over end
The Eagles under Reid have drafted more ends than any other defensive position (six). But those six ends have combined for just 161/2 career sacks while playing in an Eagles uniform.
In 2003, Reid drafted ends in the first and fourth round, but Jerome McDougle has managed just two sacks in three injury-plagued seasons and Jamaal Green is out of football after recording just one career sack.
The only two ends who've had sustained success have had it elsewhere — Derrick Burgess led the NFL with 16 sacks with the Raiders last year and Brock had 61/2 sacks last season with the Colts.
Mid-round picks for backs
Reid has never taken a running back in the first two rounds, but he has drafted five in the third round or later (seven including fullbacks). It's been 12 years since the Eagles took a running back in the first or second round (Charlie Garner in 1994) and 20 years since they drafted one in the first round (Keith Byars in 1986).
Despite waiting until the middle rounds, Reid has found good value and capable backs in the draft. Correll Buckhalter, a fourth-round pick in 2001, has averaged 4.4 yards per carry in his two healthy seasons; Westbrook has piled up 3,972 total yards and 27 touchdowns in four years; and Ryan Moats showed promised late last year as a rookie with three TDs and a 5.1 average.
Reuben Frank can be reached at eagleswriter@yahoo.com.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 23, 2006, 06:49:40 PM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 23, 2006, 06:20:23 PM
I highly disagree. As this team currently stands, I think it's a 7-9 team.
If they're a 7-9 team without Chad Jackson, they're a 7-9 team with Chad Jackson too.
With the draft and june 1st cuts I think we go from a 7-9 to a 12-4 team if they do what I want them to do.
As of yesterday:
Greenway = Don Banks (CNNSI), Draft Ace, Draft King, Draft Notebook, Draft Studio, NFL Draft Countdown
Sims = Pete Prisco (SportsLine), FOX Sports, College Football News, Draft Stock
Ngata = Draft Hype, Scouts Notebook
Jackson = Pat Kirwan (NFL.com), Great Blue North
Justice = Mel Kiper (ESPN.com), Clark Judge (SportsLine)
Bunkley = Football's Future
Kiwanuka = Ron Burke (Comcast SportsNet)
Quote from: BigEd76 on April 23, 2006, 08:15:37 PM
As of yesterday:
Kiwanuka = Ron Burke (Comcast SportsNet)
:-D
Ron Burke... (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/images/talent/photo-ron-burke.jpg)
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 22, 2006, 04:00:11 PM
Hugh Douglas on WIP said he doesn't get the feeling that they like Ngata, Bunkley or any of the names being thrown around. He thinks they'll take Gabe Watson at 14, because he's heard from people on the Eagles that they really like him.
Take it FWIW.
I turned it on for 5 minutes last week and he was arguing with Gargano or whoever the hell the host was, Hugh was actually saying that Tom Brady is overrated and that if David Carr played for the Pats they still would have won all those superbowls. Anyways, Watson at 14 would be a disaster. He's an early 2nd rounder in my eyes.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 21, 2006, 11:40:06 AM
theres a draft kid from yahoo on with gargano now
--hes saying the draft is way bigger than the superbowl
In some ways I agree, every team is involved and there's a lot more to talk about. On a national level it's obviously not as big, but for the minority of us who eat, sleep, and drink this shtein it probably is (unless our team is playing in the SB of course)
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 23, 2006, 07:58:52 PM
With the draft and june 1st cuts I think we go from a 7-9 to a 12-4 team if they do what I want them to do.
Oh, then thank God! Let's get you on the horn with Andy immediately!
man, watching Chad Jackson on tv (rerun) today doing that stand and catch drill-with the machines spitting out balls was unreal. That boy has some serious hands. He crushed Moss and the others by like 12 balls.
I hoping for DT, but seeing the hand eye coordination and the big ass hands he has, I wont be as disappointed as I thought I would be if they took him. He could be a nice pick up.
Jackson is good. I'd love to have him if we can't get Walker. The more I watch and read about him, the more I want him.
Here's Ron Burke's full mock draft: :boo
1 = Kiwanuka (unless they can trade for Ngata)
2 = Gerris Wilkinson (GA Tech LB)
3 = Greg Jennings (Western Michigan WR)
4A = Jonathan Lewis (VA Tech DT)
4B = Ryan Cook (New Mexico C)
4C = Guy Whimper (East Carolina OL)
5A = Lawrence Vickers (Colorado FB)
5B = Dwayne Slay (Texas Tech FS)
6 = Kyle Williams (LSU DT)
7 = Moses Osemwegie (Vanderbilt OLB)
I'd like that draft. If it went like this
Kiwanuka - 2nd
Wilkinson - 3rd
Jennings - 4th
Lewis - 4th
Vickers - 5th
Slay - 5th
Williams - 6th
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 23, 2006, 05:41:47 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 22, 2006, 06:18:53 PM
I keep going back to that he was not a 1st round graded WR prior to the combine. Then he blows the doors off of people when he ran his 40. Now he's being talked about as being a top 20 pick.
No sir, I don't like it.
The WR class as a whole this year is junk. And Chad Jackson is being helped by that situation. In an average to good WR draft class he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round guy.
Quite a few Eagles fans see 4.32 + no other good high draft picks at WR + a need at WR on the team and they think Jackson should be drafted at 14.
LIke I said, I would prefer to see them draft Jeff Webb, Brandon Marshall or Greg Jennings later on. I would still want one of those guys in the 4th-5th-6th even if they take Stovall at 45.
Neither did Lawson, Wimbley, and your boy Bunkley. So I don't put much stock into what they were graded before the combine. I did think the birds were going to take him at 14, but I am not so sure now, I think they could get better value in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Actually Bunkley started his rise at the Senior Bowl. That was with pads on and doing actual football drills in pads against other players. Jackson's rise started when he ran a 4.3 on some turf in shorts and track shoes.
Lawson was a guy who was highly regarded before the bowls and combines. Him and Wimbley are getting a lot of attenion because of the teams who now run 3-4's are looking for those hybrid DE/LB's who can fit into those systems.
I don't Jackson. I hate Jackson at 14. If he was picked at 45 it wouldn't be as bad. But as I said before - him and Santonio are the benefactors of a weak draft class.
Quote from: BigEd76 on April 23, 2006, 10:35:11 PM
Here's Ron Burke's full mock draft: :boo
1 = Kiwanuka (unless they can trade for Ngata)
2 = Gerris Wilkinson (GA Tech LB)
3 = Greg Jennings (Western Michigan WR)
4A = Jonathan Lewis (VA Tech DT)
4B = Ryan Cook (New Mexico C)
4C = Guy Whimper (East Carolina OL)
5A = Lawrence Vickers (Colorado FB)
5B = Dwayne Slay (Texas Tech FS)
6 = Kyle Williams (LSU DT)
7 = Moses Osemwegie (Vanderbilt OLB)
just say NO to anyone named Guy Whimper.
We need a new host for Inside The Eagles. Can you think of a better player to host anything on television?
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 23, 2006, 10:54:30 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 23, 2006, 05:41:47 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 22, 2006, 06:18:53 PM
I keep going back to that he was not a 1st round graded WR prior to the combine. Then he blows the doors off of people when he ran his 40. Now he's being talked about as being a top 20 pick.
No sir, I don't like it.
The WR class as a whole this year is junk. And Chad Jackson is being helped by that situation. In an average to good WR draft class he'd be a late 2nd-3rd round guy.
Quite a few Eagles fans see 4.32 + no other good high draft picks at WR + a need at WR on the team and they think Jackson should be drafted at 14.
LIke I said, I would prefer to see them draft Jeff Webb, Brandon Marshall or Greg Jennings later on. I would still want one of those guys in the 4th-5th-6th even if they take Stovall at 45.
Neither did Lawson, Wimbley, and your boy Bunkley. So I don't put much stock into what they were graded before the combine. I did think the birds were going to take him at 14, but I am not so sure now, I think they could get better value in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Actually Bunkley started his rise at the Senior Bowl. That was with pads on and doing actual football drills in pads against other players. Jackson's rise started when he ran a 4.3 on some turf in shorts and track shoes.
Lawson was a guy who was highly regarded before the bowls and combines. Him and Wimbley are getting a lot of attenion because of the teams who now run 3-4's are looking for those hybrid DE/LB's who can fit into those systems.
I don't Jackson. I hate Jackson at 14. If he was picked at 45 it wouldn't be as bad. But as I said before - him and Santonio are the benefactors of a weak draft class.
Neither Lawson or Wimbley was anywhere near a first round lock until recently. Jackson has been a good college wideout it isn't like he is a Mike Mamula or anything.
He was pretty good in college. But you're missing my point, I think.
He is only being talked about as a 1st rounder because he ran a 4.32 and because the WR class is weak as hell. If this was last year he would be a late 2nd- early 3rd rounder.
I don't think Wimbley is a 1st round lock either. Its all about what the 3-4 teams do. If they address another position early on, he will be a #2 pick. Unless its a team late in the 1st like Pittsburgh who would take him.
Lawson has been hovering around that 2nd round status for awhile until his workouts and like I said - those 3-4 teams look for players like him big time.
Chad Jackson is being hyped solely because of that 4.32 and the fact the draft class is weak. If they picked him at 14 I'd be angry.
If they Eagles don't get Walker, they'll be putting themself into a position where they don't have a choice to take anyone but Jackson or Holmes at 14. You know they can't get them in the second round.
Jackson and Holmes are way better than Marshall or Stovall who we could get in the 3rd. Just hope the Eagles get Walker(and I think we will) if you don't want Jackson or Holmes at 14. Because they are both by far the best two receivers in this draft, and getting Stovall or Marshall later or just plain stupid. I don't like either to be starters, they don't have the speed.
Even if they do not get Walker drafting Jackson or Holmes at 14 would be stupid, stupid, stupid.
Only way I'd even consider taking a WR in the 1st round is if you traded down to around 20 and picked up an extra 3rd rounder in the process.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 23, 2006, 11:57:39 PM
Even if they do not get Walker drafting Jackson or Holmes at 14 would be stupid, stupid, stupid.
Then you don't seem to think a big upgrade at WR is a priority. Because otherwise we wouldn't get a big upgrade.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 12:04:06 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 23, 2006, 11:57:39 PM
Even if they do not get Walker drafting Jackson or Holmes at 14 would be stupid, stupid, stupid.
Then you don't seem to think a big upgrade at WR is a priority. Because otherwise we wouldn't get a big upgrade.
I do think it is a priority. But getting Walker would be a great move. Drafting Jackson or Holmes at 14 just because you NEED a position is stupid. You do not draft strictly for need. Do that and you're in trouble and thats how bad picks are made.
Bottom line; Jackson or Holmes at 14 = dumb.
I disagree. When you need a position that bad you don't have a choice. Unless you trade down. If the Eagles don't get Walker it is 100% their fault for not addressing this problem in free agency. Their incompetency will have lead to them being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Otherwise we will be going into the season with a very very mediocre receiving corps. Unless you are fine on settling with Stovall or someone like that later on.
I'm certainly not fine with that.
Newsflash:
The need for playmakers on defense >>>>>> the need for drafting Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson.
I'm fine if they get Stovall and one of these guys later on:
Greg Jennings
Jeff Webb
Brandon Marshall
and there are several others who I would like to see drafted at WR but Im heading off to bed.
Then you have different opinions on some of the other receivers out there than me, which is fine. Everyone has a difference of opinions on players.
I think that other than Holmes or Jackson, every other receiver in this draft has a huge bust label on them, from what I've seen of them, and read. I think the deeper you go receivers like Stovall, Marshall, Avant, etc all either lack speed, physicality. One or the other. Jackson and Holmes are really the only two with both. Holmes is only 5'10 1/2 but he's physical for a smaller receiver. He's tough.
I don't think Stovall is a starter in this league. But that's me. I think if we don't get Walker we'll need to get a starter out of this draft, and to me Holmes and Jackson are the only 2 players who I think will certainly be starters. Everyone else is too big of a question mark for a team that needs receiving help so badly.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 12:16:14 AM
Then you have different opinions on some of the other receivers out there than me, which is fine. Everyone has a difference of opinions on players.
I think that other than Holmes or Jackson, every other receiver in this draft has a huge bust label on them,
You just have a boner for any receiver, if the general consensus was that Stovall was worth a first rounder you'd be all over getting him too.
That was a pretty ignorant statement. I don't care about an overall consensus. Stovall is a possession receiver. He has pretty much no breakaway ability or YAC ability. Last time I checked, YAC is pretty important in this offense. I don't care if a consensus had him as the best receiver in this draft. I don't like Stovall.
I haven't seen every receiver in this draft play a whole lot, but Holmes, Jackson, and Stovall are 3 receivers I did see play a lot. Since OSU, Florida, and ND are on TV quite often.
Having watched those receivers and read up on them, I create an opinion on them. I just don't like Stovall. I like receivers that get YAC. Stovall doesn't do that. He has great hands and size, but no breakaway ability.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 12:32:39 AM
That was a pretty ignorant statement.
Of course it was, but I think you're letting your obsession with getting a receiver clout your judgement of the value of our pick. Neither of those guys are top 20 picks IMO.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 24, 2006, 12:11:22 AM
Newsflash:
The need for playmakers on defense >>>>>> the need for drafting Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson.
I'm fine if they get Stovall and one of these guys later on:
Greg Jennings
Jeff Webb
Brandon Marshall
and there are several others who I would like to see drafted at WR but Im heading off to bed.
I agree with you on this, I would prefer to see them take a LB or DT in the first but I don't think that Holmes or Jackson would be too bad of a pick. Those other receivers would be fine options as well.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 23, 2006, 03:18:25 PM
Chad Jackson is the either the best or 2nd best receiver in this draft. It's not about value. It's about getting the best player at a position of need in the draft. So why would you wait until the 2nd or 3rd round to get a player like Stovall who isn't as good?
People get WAY WAY overboard with this value crap. Value is 100% based on mock drafts. We all say taking Jackson at 14 is too high because a bunch of mock drafts have him going 20. How do you know Denver won't take him at 15? We don't know what the hell is going to happen. If you want a player you take him at 14. It's that simple. You don't trade down to 20 thinking he'll be there simply because a bunch of mock drafts have him going there.
You may think you have an idea as to where he is going to go, so then you trade down and risk not getting the guy at all. What is more important? Getting the guy you want or getting value for him? The #1 thing is to get the guy. Getting value for the guy is only a bonus, because if you trade down you risk not getting him period. That is why I always hate trading down.
1. Chad Jackson is the best or second best receiver in the draft. It is a horrid WR class. So that makes Jackson.....what, exactly?
2. It is about value, like it or not. If you have the fourteenth pick, and there are guys who are rated higher than Jackson on your board at different need positions, because they have more upside, or have demonstrated more ability, to pass on them strictly because you need a WR? No. Doing that is stupid.
3. So if the Birds pass on Jackson at fourteen, and
DENVER selects Jackson with the very next pick, that would somehow cement the fact the Birds made a mistake in not taking him, given Denver's recent skill at logically selecting players, right?
4. "If you want a player, you take him at fourteen". Hmm. So if you have a WR, who grades decently, but doesn't seem to be near the quality of say,
the guy you picked in the second round last year, or anything approaching who was selected at the same spot in last years draft, you take him because he is the least zesty guy in the group. Makes sense.
5. You don't trade down anticipating a player is going to drop to you. You trade down because you don't see the value there. Meaning this, the Birds are on the clock at fourteen, and they don't see any available players that are head and shoulders above who will be available a few more slots down, or they have reason to believe the teams coming after them have an interest in a particular position that isn't a major need for the Birds. They give away they pick, move down and acquire more picks. The spot they move to, plus the extra picks acquired then, to them, have more value than the fourteenth pick.
6. Getting value for the guy is a bonus? Yeah. That made a whole lot of sense.
7. You always hate trading down. So even if there is equivalent talent later in the round at a need position, you would burn the higher pick anyway, because trading down sucks. Okay.
Man, I would of hated for you to grade my English comp paper in college.
DR Dissector
PFT.com has their latest second round mock up:
Quote
ROUND ONE
1. Houston Texans: Reggie Bush, RB, USC.
2. New Orleans Saints: Mario Williams, DE, N.C. State.
3. Tennessee Titans: Vince Young, QB, Texas.
4. New York Jets: D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
5. Green Bay Packers: Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland.
6. San Francisco 49ers: A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio State.
7. Oakland Raiders: Matt Leinart, QB, USC.
8. Buffalo Bills: Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State.
9. Detroit Lions: Michael Huff, S, Texas.
10. Arizona Cardinals: Winston Justice, OT, USC.
11. St. Louis Rams: Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon.
12. Cleveland Browns: Jason Allen, S, Tennessee.
13. Baltimore Ravens: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt.
14. Philadelphia Eagles: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida.
15. Denver Broncos (from Atlanta): Kamerion Wimbley, DE, Florida State.
16. Miami Dolphins: Darnell Bing, S, USC.
17. Minnesota Vikings: Ernie Sims, LB, Florida State.
18. Dallas Cowboys: Donte Whitner, DB, Ohio State.
19. San Diego Chargers: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State.
20. Kansas City Chiefs: Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech.
21. New England Patriots: Jonathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina.
22. San Francisco 49ers (from Denver): Bobby Carpenter, LB, Ohio State.
23. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa.
24. Cincinnati Bengals: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State.
25. New York Giants: Tye Hill, CB, Clemson.
26. Chicago Bears: Manny Lawson, LB, North Carolina State.
27. Carolina Panthers: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis.
28. Jacksonville Jaguars: DeMeco Ryans, LB, Alabama.
29. New York Jets (from Broncos via Falcons): LenDale White, RB, USC.
30. Indianapolis Colts: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota.
31. Seattle Seahawks: Max Jean-Gilles, G, Georgia.
32. Pittsburgh Steelers: Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State.
ROUND 2
33. Houston Texans: Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State.
34. New Orleans Saints: Maurice Stovall, WR, Notre Dame.
35. New York Jets: Gabe Watson, DT, Michigan.
36. Green Bay Packers: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina.
37. Denver Broncos (from 49ers): Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA.
38. Oakland Raiders: Sinorice Moss, WR, Miami.
39. Tennessee Titans: Joseph Addai, RB, LSU.
40. Detroit Lions: Daryl Tapp, DE, Virginia Tech.
41. Arizona Cardinals: Jeremy Trueblood, OT, Boston College.
42. Buffalo Bills: Mathias Kiawanuka, DE, Boston College.
43. Cleveland Browns: Corey Rodgers, WR, TCU.
44. Baltimore Ravens: Kelly Jennings, CB, Miami.
45. Philadelphia Eagles: Orien Harris, DT, Miami.
46. St. Louis Rams: Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia.
47. Atlanta Falcons: Taitusi Latui, G, USC.
48. Minnesota Vikings: Kellen Clemens, QB, Oregon.
49. Dallas Cowboys: Derek Hagen, WR, Arizona State.
50. San Diego Chargers: Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State.
51. Minnesota Vikings (from Dolphins): Richard Marshall, CB, Fresno State.
52. New England Patriots: Abdul Hodge, LB, Iowa.
53. Washington taterskins: D'Qwell Jackson, LB, Maryland.
54. Kansas City Chiefs: Daryn Colledge, OT, Boise State.
55. Cincinnati Bengals: Anthony Fasano, TE, Notre Dame.
56. New York Giants: Clint Ingram, LB, Oklahoma.
57. Chicago Bears: Devin Hester, WR, Miami.
58. Carolina Panthers: Davin Joseph, G, Oklahoma.
59. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Charles Spencer, G, Pittsburgh.
60. Jacksonville Jaguars: Eric Winston, OT, Miami.
61. Denver Broncos: Reggie McNeal, QB, Texas A&M.
62. Indianapolis Colts: Chris Chester, OT, Oklahoma.
63. Seattle Seahawks: Marcus McNeill, OT, Auburn.
64. Pittsburgh Steelers: Jeremy Bloom, WR/KR/PR, Colorado.
Is Orien Harris really a 2nd rounder?
Probably not. I definately wouldn't say he is the fourth best DT in the draft either, more like the eighth. Wroten, Wright, McCargo and probably Dvoracek I would rate higher.
If we draft Stovall it would be to replace McMullen. If we draft Jackson or trade for Walker, it would be to replace TO.
funny that the eagles arent on their list of teams in need of a wr...
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2006-04-23-sinorice-moss-receivers_x.htm
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 24, 2006, 11:17:52 AM
Is Orien Harris really a 2nd rounder?
Maybe. He's like Sinorice Moss, did almost nothing at the college level but will get drafted high because of potential.
I'm a little skiddish on Miami D-Linemen right now, especially a guy with a 2nd rounder that should be no higher than a 3rd rounder from the opinions of most in the know.
Orien Harris??
:-\
I would be OK if the Eagles automatically took every defensive lineman with the surname "Harris" immediately off of their draft board. Anyone else have a problem with that? Good. Settled.
Scout.com has Harris ranked as the 16th best DT in the draft.
Doink (http://scout.scout.com/a.z%20211&p=9&c=12&yr=2006&nid=83&lnid=124&rc=4&pid=22) :-D
Wow and he was a guy who was rated top of his class going into his junior year. I actually have met Orien and his older brother Devorn they're both from Newark,DE. All three brothers demolished people at the highschool level but seemed to live too big when they went to college or the nfl.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 24, 2006, 09:58:56 AM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 23, 2006, 03:18:25 PM
Chad Jackson is the either the best or 2nd best receiver in this draft. It's not about value. It's about getting the best player at a position of need in the draft. So why would you wait until the 2nd or 3rd round to get a player like Stovall who isn't as good?
People get WAY WAY overboard with this value crap. Value is 100% based on mock drafts. We all say taking Jackson at 14 is too high because a bunch of mock drafts have him going 20. How do you know Denver won't take him at 15? We don't know what the hell is going to happen. If you want a player you take him at 14. It's that simple. You don't trade down to 20 thinking he'll be there simply because a bunch of mock drafts have him going there.
You may think you have an idea as to where he is going to go, so then you trade down and risk not getting the guy at all. What is more important? Getting the guy you want or getting value for him? The #1 thing is to get the guy. Getting value for the guy is only a bonus, because if you trade down you risk not getting him period. That is why I always hate trading down.
1. Chad Jackson is the best or second best receiver in the draft. It is a horrid WR class. So that makes Jackson.....what, exactly?
2. It is about value, like it or not. If you have the fourteenth pick, and there are guys who are rated higher than Jackson on your board at different need positions, because they have more upside, or have demonstrated more ability, to pass on them strictly because you need a WR? No. Doing that is stupid.
3. So if the Birds pass on Jackson at fourteen, and DENVER selects Jackson with the very next pick, that would somehow cement the fact the Birds made a mistake in not taking him, given Denver's recent skill at logically selecting players, right?
4. "If you want a player, you take him at fourteen". Hmm. So if you have a WR, who grades decently, but doesn't seem to be near the quality of say, the guy you picked in the second round last year, or anything approaching who was selected at the same spot in last years draft, you take him because he is the least zesty guy in the group. Makes sense.
5. You don't trade down anticipating a player is going to drop to you. You trade down because you don't see the value there. Meaning this, the Birds are on the clock at fourteen, and they don't see any available players that are head and shoulders above who will be available a few more slots down, or they have reason to believe the teams coming after them have an interest in a particular position that isn't a major need for the Birds. They give away they pick, move down and acquire more picks. The spot they move to, plus the extra picks acquired then, to them, have more value than the fourteenth pick.
6. Getting value for the guy is a bonus? Yeah. That made a whole lot of sense.
7. You always hate trading down. So even if there is equivalent talent later in the round at a need position, you would burn the higher pick anyway, because trading down sucks. Okay.
It's not all about value. It's about getting the player you want. Don't bring up taking a late rounder in the first, it's a bad comparison.
If the Eagles really want Jackson and he's there at 14, then they shouldn't take him simply because the could maybe get him at 20, and risk the guy they love not being there? Is that what you are saying? Because if so, that's ridiculously stupid. If they are lukewarm on Jackson, then yes, you are right, but if a team really wants a player, you don't trade down and get them later. You take them when you can.
and I'm not talking about drafting a 6th round guy in round 1. Don't use such an extreme example.
i couldnt agree more...words like 'value' and 'reach' are all subjective bs...to me the only way you dont take a player at any specific point in the draft is if they are going to be around at your next pick...but in general if you think someones good enough then take him...are you going to pass on someone at 14 because you think he wont go until 24...thats retarded
That goes back to the original point. The Eagles won't want Jackson at fourteen, shtein, they probably wouldn't take him at twenty either. The reason I brought up a "late rounder" is that they may see the same value as Jackson later in the round. Prior to the combine Holmes was the number one, now it is Jackson, a lot of people feel that Moss has the most playmaking ability. People are starting to climb onto the Stovall band wagon. It is an at best average class talent wise, with a decent depth of average prospects. Did Chad Jackson turn the collegiate ranks on it's ear with his awesome, sure-fire first round level of talent? No, and neither did any of the other guys.
I don't get why people have such a hard time believing the FO is going into the season with Brown as the #1. Whether or not you feel he is worthy of the role is debatable, but as to whether the FO is penciling him in, isn't really.
My arguement isn't that if they want Jackson, they should pass on him thinking he will be there later. It is that they won't take him because they will feel the his potential isn't equal that of an early/mid first round selection.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 24, 2006, 03:59:52 PM
i couldnt agree more...words like 'value' and 'reach' are all subjective bs...to me the only way you dont take a player at any specific point in the draft is if they are going to be around at your next pick...but in general if you think someones good enough then take him...are you going to pass on someone at 14 because you think he wont go until 24...thats retarded
Exactly, and what is value based on anyway? Mock drafts. How do we know the Bills won't take Jackson at 8? We don't have a clue. The only reason we think the Bills will get Ngata is because mock drafts have him going at 8.
Value is 100% based on mock drafts. You can't trade down thinking a player will be there 8 picks later because a bunch of mock drafts have him going at that spot. You take the player you want when he's there. Mike Patterson was projected as a 2nd rounder last year, but the Eagles got him at 31. Was that a bad pick? Everyone seems to like Patterson. That is all it takes. Someone taking a player they want early and unexpectedly and your trade down strategy gets completely farged over.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 24, 2006, 04:05:38 PM
I don't get why people have such a hard time believing the FO is going into the season with Brown as the #1. Whether or not you feel he is worthy of the role is debatable, but as to whether the FO is penciling him in, isn't really.
Because a receiving corps of Brown, Pinkston, and Gaffney flat out sucks. Thats why. I don't care what anyone says, but we have no shot of making any noise with a receiving corps like that.
After the rough year mentally on McNabb, and all the crap he went through with TO and his injuries and you won't even get him another weapon at receiver to go with Brown? That would tell me they don't give a shtein about McNabb. It tells me they are doing everything they can to fill their pockets, not to make the team better.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 04:10:03 PM
Because a receiving corps of Brown, Pinkston, and Gaffney flat out sucks. Thats why. I don't care what anyone says, but we have no shot of making any noise with a receiving corps like that.
After the rough year mentally on McNabb, and all the crap he went through with TO and his injuries and you won't even get him another stud at receiver to go with Brown? That would tell me they don't give a shtein about McNabb. It tells me they are doing everything they can to fill their pockets, not to make the team better.
Okay, so they need a second or third receiver, based on where they see Gaffney working out. Do you spend the fourteenth pick on a second or third wideout?
Because a receiving corps of Brown, Pinkston, and Gaffney flat out sucks
you cant even really count pinkston as the chances hes comes back to his pre injury form (which wasnt that good to begin with) is slim to none...not to mention the chance he reinjures himself
that said theres no one in this draft at wr that is going to make their offense better this year
i totally believe they are going into the season with those guys as their wr's...at the same time i cant believe it either
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 24, 2006, 04:14:42 PM
that said theres no one in this draft at wr that is going to make their offense better this year
That's it, right there... which is why I think the mocks having the Eagles picking a WR in the 1st, or even the 2nd, are pretty retarded..
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 24, 2006, 04:14:42 PM
Because a receiving corps of Brown, Pinkston, and Gaffney flat out sucks
you cant even really count pinkston as the chances hes comes back to his pre injury form (which wasnt that good to begin with) is slim to none...not to mention the chance he reinjures himself
that said theres no one in this draft at wr that is going to make their offense better this year
i totally believe they are going into the season with those guys as their wr's...at the same time i cant believe it either
I just got an agreement boner. Don't think because I am having this arguement with you that I am of the mindset that we are set at WR. I just know there is no way in this draft the Birds will take a WR in the first round. It isn't their M.O.
That's it, right there... which is why I think the mocks having the Eagles picking a WR in the 1st, or even the 2nd, are pretty retarded..
other than a linebacker tho...who at 14 is going to make the team better next year...certainly not winston justice
No they don't need a second or third receiver, they need a #1. Well, nevermind, forget about numbers for a second. Let's just look at receivers by their skill level for a second. We need a receiver equal to or greater than Reggie Brown's level. Why? To make our receiving corps that much more potent. It's not about getting bargains. It's about getting a receiver to pair with Reggie Brown for the next 8-10 years. Okay, back to the numbers now. Look at Arizona. They have 2 #1 receivers basically with Boldin and Fitzgerald.
That is what I want. We have the opportunity to have that here with Walker or drafting Holmes or Jackson. We'll have 2 stud receivers playing opposite each other for the next 6+ years. Don't you want to put this receiver shtein to bed? I do. I'm sick of looking for who we can sign every year at receiver. Let's just put this issue to bed already.
Sure we can have Reggie Brown, Stovall, Gaffney, Pinkston. But that wouldn't be as good as Brown, Holmes, Gaffney, Pinkston. We could still get a very good DT in the second round, so it's not all bad.
I disagree, I think Holmes is going to be a 1,000 yard receiver for many years in this league. I think drafting him makes us instantly better.
But that's just a difference in player opinion, which is fine. If you don't like Holmes or Jackson that's cool. I really like Holmes, and I like Jackson. But I said I wanted Jackson because I think his size makes him a better fit for this offense.
holmes and jackson are not guaranteed to be #2 wr's in this league much less #1's...theres a very small chance that either one ever becomes that
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 04:19:50 PM
No they don't need a second or third receiver, they need a #1. Well, nevermind, forget about numbers for a second. Let's just look at receivers by their skill level for a second. We need a receiver equal to or greater than Reggie Brown's level. Why? To make our receiving corps that much more potent. It's not about getting bargains. It's about getting a receiver to pair with Reggie Brown for the next 8-10 years. Okay, back to the numbers now. Look at Arizona. They have 2 #1 receivers basically with Boldin and Fitzgerald.
That is what I want. We have the opportunity to have that here with Walker or drafting Holmes or Jackson. We'll have 2 stud receivers playing opposite each other for the next 6+ years. Don't you want to put this receiver shtein to bed? I do. I'm sick of looking for who we can sign every year at receiver. Let's just put this issue to bed already.
Sure we can have Reggie Brown, Stovall, Gaffney, Pinkston. But that wouldn't be as good as Brown, Holmes, Gaffney, Pinkston. We could still get a very good DT in the second round, so it's not all bad.
The FO most likely doesn't agree with you on the first point. Comparing someone who has done rather well in the NFL as a number one with two untested rookies in a soft class is a bit of a stretch. Getting Walker >>>>>>>>> drafting Holmes or Jackson. I would love to put the WR issue "to bed" by seeing the Birds have a solid WR group. It's most likely not going to happen to your, or my, satisfaction this year. Finally, Boldin and Fitzgerald in Arizona, are the exception, not the rule - on the flip side, look at Detroit.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on April 24, 2006, 12:11:22 AM
Newsflash:
The need for playmakers on defense >>>>>> the need for drafting Santonio Holmes or Chad Jackson.
I'm fine if they get Stovall and one of these guys later on:
Greg Jennings
Jeff Webb
Brandon Marshall
and there are several others who I would like to see drafted at WR but Im heading off to bed.
End of subject. Hate to even bring this up but I loved Parcell's first four round picks last year:
Ware DE
Spears DE
Burnett OLB
Canty DE
Burnett did not play very well but he should be a good one. Reminds me of our DB draft of 2002. This group is going to be very good and would not mind seeing the birds take this approach.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 24, 2006, 04:27:36 PM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 04:19:50 PM
No they don't need a second or third receiver, they need a #1. Well, nevermind, forget about numbers for a second. Let's just look at receivers by their skill level for a second. We need a receiver equal to or greater than Reggie Brown's level. Why? To make our receiving corps that much more potent. It's not about getting bargains. It's about getting a receiver to pair with Reggie Brown for the next 8-10 years. Okay, back to the numbers now. Look at Arizona. They have 2 #1 receivers basically with Boldin and Fitzgerald.
That is what I want. We have the opportunity to have that here with Walker or drafting Holmes or Jackson. We'll have 2 stud receivers playing opposite each other for the next 6+ years. Don't you want to put this receiver shtein to bed? I do. I'm sick of looking for who we can sign every year at receiver. Let's just put this issue to bed already.
Sure we can have Reggie Brown, Stovall, Gaffney, Pinkston. But that wouldn't be as good as Brown, Holmes, Gaffney, Pinkston. We could still get a very good DT in the second round, so it's not all bad.
The FO most likely doesn't agree with you on the first point. Comparing someone who has done rather well in the NFL as a number one with two untested rookies in a soft class is a bit of a stretch. Getting Walker >>>>>>>>> drafting Holmes or Jackson. I would love to put the WR issue "to bed" by seeing the Birds have a solid WR group. It's most likely not going to happen to your, or my, satisfaction this year. Finally, Boldin and Fitzgerald in Arizona, are the exception, not the rule - on the flip side, look at Detroit.
Well people around the Eagles a lot like Reuben Frank, Eckel, Eskin, etc all say the Eagles want another stud at receiver. We'll just have to wait and see.
Burnett did not play very well but he should be a good one. Reminds me of our DB draft of 2002. This group is going to be very good and would not mind seeing the birds take this approach.
i love this idea
1. lawson
2. mcintosh
3. haralson
4. nande
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 04:36:57 PM
Well people around the Eagles a lot like Reuben Frank, Eckel, Eskin, etc all say the Eagles want another stud at receiver. We'll just have to wait and see.
And how many times in the last five years have those clowns been right about what the Birds will do on draft day? Further, when was the last time the Birds drafted a WR because they felt they needed a stud? There is no way Jackson or Holmes grade out better than the WRs who went last year in the first or early second round, so would they feel they are getting a stud on the level of Boldin, Fitzgerald, Walker, etc? Probably not.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 24, 2006, 04:40:27 PM
Burnett did not play very well but he should be a good one. Reminds me of our DB draft of 2002. This group is going to be very good and would not mind seeing the birds take this approach.
i love this idea
1. lawson
2. mcintosh
3. haralson
4. nande
Nande would be sweet. He'd be a terror on special teams. Do you think he could play safety?
I agree that we probably won't get either Holmes or Jackson, but all I know is there better be someone of high quality next to Brown on that depth chart, and his name can't be Pinkston or Gaffney.
I just want Walker, this way we don't have to worry about a receiver in the draft. If they have as big of a hard on as we are hearing about Walker, then they better make a strong ass push for him on draft day.
i dont see why not...he has the athleticism...i dont see much of difference btwn him and bing...but id like to see him get a shot at wil...if only as a back-up/passing down guy...he would be a beast in blitz packages...
Why are you so low on Gaffney? I think the dude could have a big time impact. He was taken in the same spot as Brown in '02, put up decent enough numbers as a number two in a horrible offense, and was consistent doing so. I think the only reason he only got a one year deal was because they are waiting to evaluate Pinkston (anyone know if he is even running yet btw?). As a number two, I think Gaffney will do a fine job.
I think Gaffney is a nice receiver, but nothing better than a #3 slot guy. I think Gaffney would look a lot better paired with Walker and Brown. Then we're talking. But as the 2nd best receiver on your team? Not good.
With McNabb's fragile psyche, and mental state, I just want to go into the season with a really nice receiving corps for him to throw to, so we can put this TO thing behind us 100%. I don't think Brown, Pinkston, Gaffney is good enough. Not even close. We need McNabb to me comfortable back there because he IS the team. If he's hurt, then season over.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 05:04:57 PM
With McNabb's fragile psyche, and mental state
they're the same thing Dr. Phil
I know.
Seriously, if McNabb has a fragile psyche he isn't cut out for this kind of work. I think McNabb will be fine either way, he would be happier with Walker, Brown, Gaffney, Pinky, but wouldn't be any more or less mentally stable. Adding a rookie WR most definitely won't help to improves McNabb's mental state either.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 05:04:57 PM
We need McNabb to me comfortable back there because he IS the team. If he's hurt, then season over.
You make an excellent case for upgrading the offensive line.
The same thing applies if he's waiting 5 seconds for receivers to get open, finds no one, and has to take a sack or run for it.
Yeah, but by upgrading the offensive line, they could also run the ball more effectively (even if not more often).
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 24, 2006, 05:04:57 PM
With McNabb's fragile psyche, and mental state, I just want to go into the season with a really nice receiving corps for him to throw to, so we can put this TO thing behind us 100%. I don't think Brown, Pinkston, Gaffney is good enough. Not even close. We need McNabb to me comfortable back there because he IS the team. If he's hurt, then season over.
WTF? :fire
Here is some Eagles news from KFFL:
Eagles | Team interested in Stovall?
Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:42:34 -0700
Larry O'Rourke, of the Morning Call, reports Philadelphia Eagles vice president of player personnel Tom Heckert indicated Philadelphia area resident and Notre Dame WR Maurice Stovall is definitely of interest in the second round, where the Eagles have the draft's 45th overall pick. "He's a big kid, runs well for a guy his size," Heckert said. "The new offense (at Notre Dame) helped his draft position."
Eagles | Team not interested in L. White; smokescreen or real?
Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:37:07 -0700
Larry O'Rourke, of the Morning Call, reports unless Philadelphia Eagles vice president of player personnel Tom Heckert is purposely trying to throw teams drafting just ahead of the Eagles bad information, it does not appear they have any interest in USC RB LenDale White. "Where we're picking (at No. 14), I don't know if there's a back we would pick," Heckert said. "But, we're not against drafting a running back. It falls into the area of, `Is (a given running back) better than the other players available?"
Eagles | Heckert won't discuss trading for J. Walker
Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:32:29 -0700
Larry O'Rourke, of the Morning Call, reports Philadelphia Eagles vice president of player personnel Tom Heckert declined to get into specifics of a possible trade with the Green Bay Packers for Packers unhappy WR Javon Walker. He did indicate trades are possible, maybe even likely, given the Eagles' abundance of draft picks. "I don't think we'll make (a trade) during the week," Heckert said. "Maybe draft day. And it could be while a team is on the clock (to make a pick), because they'll want to see if they can get anything better."
Eagles | Team could take a chance on a multi-position player
Mon, 24 Apr 2006 18:31:58 -0700
Larry O'Rourke, of the Morning Call, reports Philadelphia Eagles vice president of player personnel Tom Heckert said Monday, April 24, the team could take a chance late and draft a multi-position player in next weekend's NFL Draft. Penn State QB Michael Robinson is one of the multi-position players who could end up as an Eagle. "I like him," Heckert said. "I really do. I think he's a guy who has talent as a quarterback. But he has the talent to also be a wide receiver, a third-down running back, and a returner. He's talented. He's raw as a wide receiver." Heckert said he could envision Robinson as at least a third-string quarterback in the NFL. Another multi-position prospect is Colorado WR/KR Jeremy Bloom. Others who could be on the Eagles' list of potential picks because of their ability to fill a return specialist role as well as play another position include Florida State WR Willie Reid, UCLA RB Maurice Drew and Kansas CB Charles Gordon.
I would love for the Eagles to take one of these multi-talented players especially Robinson, he is just a good football player and I think there is a place for him in this league.
A part of Brookover's article.
QuoteA name that's coming up as a potential first-round pick by the Eagles is Ohio State center Nick Mangold. Initially projected as a second-rounder, Mangold could fill that need at center the Eagles tried unsuccessfully to plug in free agency with Pro Bowler LeCharles Bentley... . Heckert said Florida State's Kamerion Wimbley and North Carolina State's Manny Lawson both have the ability to play strong-side linebacker even though they are listed as defensive ends or outside linebackers in a 3-4 defense.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 25, 2006, 03:22:16 AM
A part of Brookover's article.
QuoteA name that's coming up as a potential first-round pick by the Eagles is Ohio State center Nick Mangold. Initially projected as a second-rounder, Mangold could fill that need at center the Eagles tried unsuccessfully to plug in free agency with Pro Bowler LeCharles Bentley... . Heckert said Florida State's Kamerion Wimbley and North Carolina State's Manny Lawson both have the ability to play strong-side linebacker even though they are listed as defensive ends or outside linebackers in a 3-4 defense.
I love Mangold but no way at 14. Who would birds trade down with? He'll definitely be gone by the time birds pick in the second round.
Manny Lawson - as long as Dallas doesn't snag him like all the mocks are predicting.
If we trade down to lkike 25 and get an extra second rounder, then I might like it if we could get Wroten and Stovall both in the second. Or use the extra second to offer GB for Walker, with a 4th and a 4th next year or something(to counter Denver if they offer their 2nd rounder).
But we'd still need a SAM LB.
So, does this quote by Heckert in today's paper make it LESS likely the Eagles will move up--but MORE likely they will move down, if their top 3 are not there--
The Eagles have three picks in the fourth round. Heckert acknowledged that early second-day wealth could be important in maneuvering, but this is hailed as a deep draft, which could make parting with one or more of those picks difficult.
"In the middle [of the draft], there's a lot of guys we think can help us," Heckert said. "We get excited when we start talking about these guys, who possibly can be there in the second, third, fourth rounds. I love having these three fourth-round picks. I think we can get some players."
The Mangold talk is just regurgitation of Eckel's garbage. People are thinking that the Eagles really wanted to upgrade at the Center position because of the interest in LeCharles, so they believe that Mangold might be the pick.
Not gonna happen.
Also, don't read too far into anything Heckert is saying this week. It means nothing. No way they tip their hands.
Eagles general manager Tom Heckert said that character often is the determining factor in whom the Birds will select. In a draft meeting Tuesday, the Eagles brass reiterated the point.
"You don't have to be a great player," Heckert said. "You have to be a good player, but you have to be a good guy, fairly intelligent, and you have to be a guy that we're not going to have to worry about. We try not to make an exception because a guy's an exceptional athlete, or superproductive. If he doesn't fall into the hard-worker, good-guy category, I just think those guys, the chances of succeeding are slim to none. Or they're always a problem, they're always in trouble, or they turn into somebody you want to get rid of. We try to avoid that."
did anyone catch this in the paper yesterday...i almost puked on the train home when i read it...and it completely backs up everything ive said about this current eagles admin...they want solid hard working good guys instead of great talented players...
those guys are great during the season when you have a few losses, because they have the character that the Eagles are looking for, but when it comes to championship games and Super Bowls, those guys aren't good enough.
Wait, so... Get Owens?
more like GET rid of matt mccoy
and
GET ernie sims
I would toss many players before McCoy. I have no doubts he's going to be a monster on Special Teams this year, and I still think he is probably going to beat out Barber for a starting spot. The kid is going to be ready to play.
Considine, on the other hand.... probably a lost cause.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 25, 2006, 09:40:33 AM
did anyone catch this in the paper yesterday...i almost puked on the train home when i read it...and it completely backs up everything ive said about this current eagles admin...they want solid hard working good guys instead of great talented social deviants...
I think this is more like what he said.
DraftDaddy.com's seven round mock, pretty good, but two safeties?
Quote
14 Philadelphia ~ LB Ernie Sims, Florida State
45 Philadelphia ~ WR Sinorice Moss, Miami
76 Philadelphia ~ OG Taitusi "Deuce" Lutui, USC
108 Philadelphia ~ S Pat Watkins, Florida State
116 Philadelphia ~ CB Josh Lay, Pittsburgh
127 Philadelphia ~ DT Rod Wright, Texas
147 Philadelphia ~ DE Rob Ninkovich, Purdue
168 Philadelphia ~ RB Jerome Harrison, Washington State
204 Philadelphia ~ S Marcus Hudson, North Carolina State
220 Philadelphia ~ WR/KR Domenik Hixon, Akron
Sims + Moss = blockbuster draft.
No way that happens.
As for the safeties, both Dawk & Lewis are UFA's in 2007, so yeah, it's not only possible but probable that they'll be adding a couple in the draft.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 25, 2006, 02:37:18 PM
DraftDaddy.com's seven round mock, pretty good, but two safeties?
Quote
14 Philadelphia ~ LB Ernie Sims, Florida State
45 Philadelphia ~ WR Sinorice Moss, Miami
76 Philadelphia ~ OG Taitusi "Deuce" Lutui, USC
108 Philadelphia ~ S Pat Watkins, Florida State
116 Philadelphia ~ CB Josh Lay, Pittsburgh
127 Philadelphia ~ DT Rod Wright, Texas
147 Philadelphia ~ DE Rob Ninkovich, Purdue
168 Philadelphia ~ RB Jerome Harrison, Washington State
204 Philadelphia ~ S Marcus Hudson, North Carolina State
220 Philadelphia ~ WR/KR Domenik Hixon, Akron
IGY needs a new pair of undershorts.
Ha. He wouldn't be the only one if the Eagles pulled that off.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on April 25, 2006, 02:42:41 PM
Sims + Moss = blockbuster draft.
No way that happens.
As for the safeties, both Dawk & Lewis are UFA's in 2007, so yeah, it's not only possible but probable that they'll be adding a couple in the draft.
Sean Considine will haunt your sleep for months for having said that. SHAME!
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 25, 2006, 09:50:30 AM
I would toss many players before McCoy. I have no doubts he's going to be a monster on Special Teams this year, and I still think he is probably going to beat out Barber for a starting spot. The kid is going to be ready to play.
Considine, on the other hand.... probably a lost cause.
And you too.
best draft ever?
I hate moss. I'd rather have Stovall, and I don't like him that much either.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 25, 2006, 02:48:55 PM
I hate moss. I'd rather have Stovall, and I don't like him that much either.
Why you gotta be a hater, dog?
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 25, 2006, 02:51:03 PM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 25, 2006, 02:48:55 PM
I hate moss. I'd rather have Stovall, and I don't like him that much either.
Why you gotta be a hater, dog?
Because Chad Jackson is the second coming of Christ....or at least Randy Moss.
i have no idea who is going to be better but
moss in the 2nd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>jackson in the first
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 25, 2006, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 25, 2006, 02:51:03 PM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 25, 2006, 02:48:55 PM
I hate moss. I'd rather have Stovall, and I don't like him that much either.
Why you gotta be a hater, dog?
Because Chad Jackson is the second coming of Christ....or at least Randy Moss.
I'm not that high on Chad Jackson. I mean, I think he'd be the best fit for the receivers out of this draft, but I don't think he's going to be the next Jerry Rice or anything.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 25, 2006, 02:57:27 PM
i have no idea who is going to be better but
moss in the 2nd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>jackson in the first
I'm with you here, IGY.
Jackson does nothing for me @ 14. Moss in the 2nd, however... oh, yeah. :yay
I think Moss is only going that high because of what Steve Smith did this season. Everyone wants the next Steve Smith. Don't forget Smith was a monster in college.
At least Stovall is a big target you can get the ball to.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 25, 2006, 02:37:18 PM
DraftDaddy.com's seven round mock, pretty good, but two safeties?
Quote
14 Philadelphia ~ LB Ernie Sims, Florida State
45 Philadelphia ~ WR Sinorice Moss, Miami
76 Philadelphia ~ OG Taitusi "Deuce" Lutui, USC
108 Philadelphia ~ S Pat Watkins, Florida State
116 Philadelphia ~ CB Josh Lay, Pittsburgh
127 Philadelphia ~ DT Rod Wright, Texas
147 Philadelphia ~ DE Rob Ninkovich, Purdue
168 Philadelphia ~ RB Jerome Harrison, Washington State
204 Philadelphia ~ S Marcus Hudson, North Carolina State
220 Philadelphia ~ WR/KR Domenik Hixon, Akron
this is as good a draft as you can expect as an eagles fan. i would love it. i think they get an OT rather than an OG in the 3rd though, and there's no chance Rod Wright is there at 127.
like someone already said, i think it's very possible we take 2 safeties in the draft. this is one of the deepest drafts for safeties is a while, so we migth as well take advantage of it.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 25, 2006, 03:48:43 PM
I think Moss is only going that high because of what Steve Smith did this season. Everyone wants the next Steve Smith. Don't forget Smith was a monster in college.
At least Stovall is a big target you can get the ball to.
Smith tore it up so much in college that 73 guys were chosen before him.
If all you want is a "big target", the Eagles have plenty of those in Schobel, McMullen, and McCants. It's arguable as to whether Stovall would really be an upgrade over any of those guys.
I've said before that I don't want Stovall, but I'd rather have him than Moss. Moss is too small for my liking, and didn't really put up great numbers in college either.
But he has speed and speed kills so I wouldn't be completely angry with them, since there is upside to look forward to.
2006 NFL Mock Draft
1. Houston Texans – Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New Orleans Saints – Mario Williams, DE, NCST
3. Tennessee Titians – Vince Young, QB, Texas
4. New York Jets - DaBrickashaw Ferguson, T, Virginia
5. Green Bay Packers – A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio St.
6. Oakland Raiders – Matt Leinart – QB, USC
7. San Francisco 49ers – Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
8. Buffalo Bills – Brodrick Bunkley, DT, FSU
9. Detroit Lions – Michael Huff, S, Texas
10. Arizona Cardinals – Ernie Simms, LB, FSU
11. St. Louis Rams – Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
12. Cleveland Browns – Haloti Nagata, DT, Oregon
13. Baltimore Ravens – Jimmy Williams, DB, Virginia Tech
14. Philadelphia Eagles –Winston Justice, T, USC
15. Denver Broncos – DeAngelo Williams, RB, Mephis
16. Miami Dolphins –Ty Hill, CB, Clemson
17. Minnesota Vikings – Manny Lawson, DE/LB, NCST
18. Dallas Cowboys – Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa
19. San Diego Chargers – Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio St.
20. Kansas City Chiefs – Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
21. New England Patriots – Karmerion Wimbley, DE/LB, FSU
22. San Francisco 49ers from Broncos from the taterskins – Jonathan Joseph, South Carolina
23. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Eric Winston, T, Miami
24. Cincinnati Bengals – Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, BC
25. New York Giants – Nick Mangold, C, Ohio St.
26. Chicago Bears –Lenord Pope, TE, Georgia
27. Carolina Panthers – LenDale White, RB, USC
28. Jacksonville Jaguars –Jason Allen, CB/S, Tennessee
29. New York Jets – Tamba Hali, DE, PSU
30. Indianapolis Colts – Lawrence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
31. Seattle Seahawks – Antonio Cromartie, CB, FSU
32. Pittsburgh Steelers – Darnell Bing, S, USC
I gotta say, I'll be kinda pissed if Ngata goes only a pick or two before us since we should have been able to leap over two teams to snag him.
no way does jimmy williams go that high...and not just cause i think hes gonna be a bust
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 25, 2006, 05:01:21 PM
no way does jimmy williams go that high...and not just cause i think hes gonna be a bust
People who have Jimmy Williams going to the Ravens and either Ngata or Justice falling to the Eagles are simply Eagles homers translating their hopes and dreams to their mock drafts.
No WAY the Ravens would take Williams there.
Which one is that, Kiper's?
Adam Caplan from Sirius was on Daily News Live and he said he truly believes the Eagles will trade down. He thinks Ngata and Bunkley will go too high to trade up for and he thinks they'll go down and take Mangold. He said if they stay at 14 he really thinks they'll take Greenway. He thinks Justice scares off the Eagles with that toy gun incident. Greenway is a character guy and works hard and he thinks if the Eagles stay at 14 they break the trend and take Greenway.
I wouldn't be all that happy with Greenway, but take it FWIW.
Oh, and he said the Eagles absolutely love Stovall and would want him in the 2nd round.
If they pick Mangold in the 1st round...anywhere in the 1st round...I'll be farging pissed off.
Add him to the list of
Chad Greenway
Chad Jackson
Santonio Holmes
I've read that people say Mangold is the best center prospect in the last 10 years.
He's too small.
He's like 290 if that.
Give me Jackson at C.
I agree though for the most part. I'd much rather have about 10 other players in the first round before Mangold. The only reason I'd want the Eagles to trade down right now is because acquiring an extra pick helps us in the Walker sweepstakes. I figure if the Eagles want Stovall in the 2nd round, then they might as well deal it for Walker, right?
If they could get Walker for our second. I would do it right now! I wouldnt mind Mangold if we get him at the bottom of the first. And pick up another pick. I would like one of these players in order. Brodrick Bunkley, Winston Justice, Haloti Nagata, Chad Jackson (only if we dont get Walker), Jimmy Williams which I think learning from Lito, Sheldon, Dawkins and Lewis could be a probowler in a couple years.
Jimmy Williams is dropping as well. He's not worth #14 at this point
I with you Phreak I would not be happy with Mangold in the first round at all. Center just does not seem like that it is that big of a need for the Eagles. I would not be disappointed with Greenway if he was the pick I think he could be a solid LB for the Eagles in this system. The thing is that Greenway really needs good line play in front of him to be productive. And unless someone takes Stovall in front of them I think he will pretty much a lock in round 2.
I would rather they trade down and take Mangold than stay put and take Greenway. This draft is way deep in LB's and Greenway isnt even that impressive. You know when you watch Iowa there are games when Hodge looked way better than Greenway. hmmm.
Quote from: MURP on April 26, 2006, 12:09:09 AM
I would rather they trade down and take Mangold than stay put and take Greenway. This draft is way deep in LB's and Greenway isnt even that impressive. You know when you watch Iowa there are games when Hodge looked way better than Greenway. hmmm.
I suppose I don't have to say it, but I agree. That said, a first-round center is far from my preference.
Center just does not seem like that it is that big of a need for the Eagles
i disagree and by the run they made at bently so do the eagles...its a huge need...bigger than either OT or DT...its just that its not as an important a position
Your logic is akin to Eckel's. I happen to believe that they didn't believe the position was as much of a need as was Bentley a truly elite player that would make the team better for years to come.
I think you will see the same type of philosophy in the draft, because they'll stick to their board.
with how careful they are with the cap i dont believe the eagles would have spent that much money on a position they didnt think was a great need
they know the interior of their line is not good and center is the weakest spot
That's because you're assuming the Eagles are cheap, which they are not.
They simply refuse to play non-elite players elite contracts.
trust me if i know how awful fraley is they do too
with all these teams switching to a 3-4 scheme--Dallas being one of them--, Fraleys positives he once had up against 4-3's are now becoming obsolete, as he already is and has to take on bigger and stronger nose tackles. Very big problem were having now with no push up front for Westbrook to get through the guard and tackle positions.
If they do address a center Im hoping its with their 2nd pick--but they definitely need one
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 26, 2006, 08:27:24 AM
trust me if i know how awful fraley is they do too
I think Jamaal Jackson will be an OK player for them. If Fraley beats him out, then we start to worry.
I didn't get to see much of the season last year but what I know about Fraley is as long as there is talent around him he will be fine. As far as Mangold I wouldn't have a problem if they took him I just would if they did in the first unless it was at the bottom. I agree with FF's point about Bentley I think they just wanted to add an elite player.
For those of you who think I hate on Greenway too much, I have him going #21 to the Pats in my latest mock.
That's fair, IMO.
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 26, 2006, 08:27:24 AM
trust me if i know how awful fraley is they do too
I don't think he is awful. He's been solid here and I think he can be again after the injury. However, he does get abused against 3-4's where the nosetackle lines up over top of him and he's not the greatest run blocker, but he isn't a bad player.
This is not to say that we couldn't use an upgrade there, we can certainly use a more complete player... but honeybuns is not as bad as you're saying.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 26, 2006, 04:35:25 PM
For those of you who think I hate on Greenway too much, I have him going #21 to the Pats in my latest mock.
That's fair, IMO.
Well if he is good enough to go to NE at #21 he is certainly good enough for #14 because the players from 14 to 44 are all about the same in this draft. If the Eagles just wouldn't have won that damn Rams game they would be at least at #10. :boom
Quote from: SidFarkus on April 26, 2006, 05:07:43 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 26, 2006, 08:27:24 AM
trust me if i know how awful fraley is they do too
I don't think he is awful. He's been solid here and I think he can be again after the injury. However, he does get abused against 3-4's where the nosetackle lines up over top of him and he's not the greatest run blocker, but he isn't a bad player.
This is not to say that we couldn't use an upgrade there, we can certainly use a more complete player... but honeybuns is not as bad as you're saying.
Thank you,
As Hank's sponsor last year, your support is appreciated. He'll be back and ready to go.
Eagles | Team could select first wide receiver in NFL Draft
Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:16:21 -0700
Bob Brookover, of the Philadelphia Inquirer, reports the Philadelphia Eagles have a chance to select the first wide receiver in the NFL Draft Saturday, April 29. The last time the Eagles took the first wide receiver in the draft was 40 years ago in 1966 when the team took former WR Ben Hawkins.
Eagles | Team could draft a wide receiver first-day
Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:09:12 -0700
Bob Brookover, of the Philadelphia Inquirer, reports the Philadelphia Eagles could decide to pick a wide receiver on the first-day of the draft. The team could draft Florida WR Chad Jackson or Ohio State WR Santonio Holmes with the No. 14 overall pick. Those are the only two wide receivers projected by many to go in the first round. If the team passes on a wide receiver in the first-round, they could try to draft Notre Dame WR Maurice Stovall in a later round.
QuoteEagles | Team could draft a wide receiver first-day
Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:09:12 -0700
Bob Brookover, of the Philadelphia Inquirer, reports the Philadelphia Eagles could decide to pick a wide receiver on the first-day of the draft. The team could draft Florida WR Chad Jackson or Ohio State WR Santonio Holmes with the No. 14 overall pick. Those are the only two wide receivers projected by many to go in the first round. If the team passes on a wide receiver in the first-round, they could try to draft Notre Dame WR Maurice Stovall in a later round.
Thanks for the inside info Bob. I was wondering who the Eagles "could decide" to draft.
I think what he meant to say was something like this:
Eagles | Team could draft a defensive tackle, offensive lineman, defensive end, linebacker, safety or wide receiver first-day
Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:09:12 -0700
EagleFeva, of Atlanta, GA, reports the Philadelphia Eagles could decide to pick a defensive tackle, offensive lineman, linebacker, safety or wide receiver on the first-day of the draft. The team could draft Oregon DT Haloti Ngata or Florida State DT Broderick Bunkley or USC OT Winston Justice or Florida State DE Kamerion Wimbley or Florida State LB Ernie Sims or Iowa LB Chad Greenway or Ohio State LB Bobby Carpenter or Texas S/CB Michael Huff or Florida WR Chad Jackson or Ohio State WR Santonio Holmes with the No. 14 overall pick. These are all players projected by many to go in the first round. If the team passes on a defensive tackle, offensive lineman, linebacker, safety or wide receiver in the first-round, they could try to draft LSU DT Claude Wroten or Michigan DT Gabe Watson or Miami OT Eric Winston or NC State DE Manny Lawson or Alabama LB DeMeco Ryans or Ohio State S Donte Whitner or Notre Dame WR Maurice Stovall in a later round.
Well, Dr. Z has us taking Bobby Carpenter at 14.
Of course, by the end, I think he was falling over drunk......
Dr. Z's only positive contribution to sportswriting is his yearly rip on NFL announcers.
dr z also has bunkley at 21
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 27, 2006, 12:12:05 PM
dr z also has bunkley at 21
It's debatable whether or not he deserves to go there, but downright retarded to think he actually will.
Pasquerelli and Clayton are doing their "interactive" live draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2423861).
They had Leinart going to the Raiders at #7. Ha!
Quote14. Eagles
Ernie Sims, LB, Florida State
Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com senior NFL writer: History shows that coach Andy Reid usually prefers big guys, offensive and defensive linemen, early in the draft. But there aren't any value picks here on either side of the line, unless the Eagles make a bit of a reach for Ohio State center Nick Mangold. Eagles need to upgrade at linebacker and Sims lends plenty of speed to defense.
Oh k. Sure.
If the Jets dont take him--which I think they will--then its not laughable at all. Thats exactly where he will go IMO
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 26, 2006, 04:35:25 PM
For those of you who think I hate on Greenway too much, I have him going #21 to the Pats in my latest mock.
That's fair, IMO.
I almost guarantee that the Pats will take Kiwi at 21 (as a LB) if he's available
draft countdowns value board is finally out...excellent reference material
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/valueboard.html
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 27, 2006, 01:41:19 PM
draft countdowns value board is finally out...excellent reference material
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/valueboard.html
Thank you, good stuff.
A Strong Feeling About the NFL Draft
By Michael Wilbon
Thursday, April 27, 2006; E01
I hate the NFL draft. I realize that saying anything against the draft amounts to blasphemy, but somebody's got to do it. The NFL draft is the most overrated, overhyped, obsessively overcovered non-event in sports. It's a nuisance, made-for-TV-by-TV event for people who couldn't tell a left tackle from a right guard, or zone from man-to-man coverage to save their mamas' lives.
I hate mock drafts. I hate alleged draft developments. I hate when somebody on ESPN breathlessly announces that someone named Antonio Cromartie is zooming up the draft board. I hate when some dope tries to tell me that an NFL team really cares that Reggie Bush's family might have gotten a break on a house from an agent who wanted to do a little favor for Reggie Bush . . . as if that has anything to do with whether he can scoot his behind into the end zone on Sundays.
I hate draft projections. I hate anybody who tries to tell me that Jay Cutler of Vanderbilt is a better prospect than Vince Young or Matt Leinart because chances are those are the same people who tried to tell me 23 years ago that Ken O'Brien had more upside than Dan Marino.
I love pro football, but I hate the draft. I hate being asked, "Who is so-and-so going to take" because not only do I not know, I don't care.
All praise to the Wizards for getting into the playoffs and for drawing LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers because that, especially in light of the taterskins not having a first-round draft pick, means draft talk is at a minimum in Washington and people with real sporting passions have something reasonable to talk about. Thankfully, there are playoff games being played right here this weekend, and every available inch of space in this newspaper and every second on local TV will not be dominated by baseless speculation from coaches and my brethren in the media on whether some sixth-round draft pick from Pluto State will wind up contributing on special teams this year.
It's too long. It's too slow. I hate the draft, but I love Mel Kiper, even though it's largely his fault that the draft has turned into a cottage industry for way too many people. I told Kiper I was writing this column today and that even though he makes his living analyzing the draft, he had to tell me one thing he hates about it. And though he was reluctant, Kiper said: "I hate the amount of time it takes to complete the first round. Fifteen minutes for a pick? It's disgusting. It should be eight minutes [for the first round] and then five from then on. The first round takes six hours. The first round lasts as long as a [Tony Kornheiser] bus ride across the country."
Yes, most every team takes the full 15 minutes, undoubtedly so ESPN -- one of my employers -- can perform an information dump on every single player. And what happens after three months of scouting plus those 15 minutes? A club takes, say, Heath Shuler in the first round and Gus Frerotte in the seventh.
My problem is what the NFL draft doesn't tell us. The draft never even hinted to us that Tom Brady, chosen in the sixth round, was going to lead a team to three Super Bowls. The NFL draft never told us that Terrell Davis, also chosen in the sixth round, was going to lead the Broncos to back-to-back Super Bowl titles. It never told us Kurt Warner was going to lead the Rams to a pair of Super Bowl appearances because Warner was never even drafted. It never told us Brad Johnson, a ninth-round pick, was going to win more Super Bowls than Dan Marino.
And then there's stuff we never should have listened to. For instance, the draft told us the combination of Shuler (No. 3 overall) to Michael Westbrook (No. 4 overall) would be leading the taterskins to one playoff appearance after another. The draft told us that Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Tim Couch and Cade McNown were going to be studs.
The point I'm trying to make is this: Who knew?
Sometimes the picks pan out, sometimes they don't.
Yeah, it's an unbelievably optimistic time, until you actually calm down and realize that some years you get Frank Wycheck in the sixth round and some years you get Dexter Nottage.
If the draft is so important, how come the taterskins didn't know that the wide receiver they took in the 12th round (Keenan McCardell) would wind up being 1,000 times better and playing three times longer than the guy they picked in the first round (Westbrook)?
On draft day, teams tell you how well they made out, how they plugged all their holes and solved all their problems . . . and by summer camp they're telling you all the things the kid can't do in order to drive the price down as he negotiates his first contract.
I learned nearly 20 years ago when working the NFL beat for The Post not to believe anything anybody with any team told me about the draft because 99 percent of it was posturing, hoping they could sucker some poor pigeon out of a middle-round draft pick by threatening to take a guy they had no interest in whatsoever. It's all misinformation and nonsense, and to what end?
Really, I don't need an eight-minute documentary on A.J. Hawk, linebacker, Ohio State.
While I'm at it, the only thing I hate nearly as much as the NFL draft is "American Idol." Actually, I don't hate "Idol" because I don't watch it. I hate it because people care so stinkin' much about it, because occasionally somebody has to look at the direction in which the popular culture is moving and simply rebel! I'm tired of Chris and Kellie and Elliott and even adorable little Paris . . . but not Katharine McPhee. (I swear I don't watch; I merely checked out the show's Web site today. I swear.) Did you see that moment when the button popped off her yellow dress? Do you think McPhee knows that she should never have selected "I Have Nothing" by Whitney Houston? Somebody should have told her that, yes, Houston has had her problems . . . but long before that she had maybe the greatest voice of all time. Whitney Houston, 20 years ago . . . now there was a can't-miss first-round draft choice, maybe a worthy No. 1 overall pick.
And until somebody like her appears before Simon and Randy and Paula, I'm not watching "Idol," and I'm not watching the NFL draft.
that's good, because I hate Michael Wilbon
everything he says is 100% on point....and i still like the draft
Let's add another:
Charles Robinson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-mockdraft042706&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Quote
The final analysis
By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
April 27, 2006
NEW YORK – Texas has the championship, USC has the superstar trio and Ohio State owns this year's NFL draft.
After months of evaluations, the draft is shaping up with the nation's talent hotbeds producing the lion's share of first-round picks. As many as 16 of the first 32 picks could come from only four schools: Ohio State, Florida State, USC and Texas. In the final mock draft, the Buckeyes squeak six players into the first round, followed by USC and Florida State with four each, and Texas with a pair of first-rounders.
Among those whose stock fluctuated the most over the last four months:
# The running backs suffered the biggest stock plunge. Both USC's LenDale White and Memphis' DeAngelo Williams were both considered top-10 picks in early January, but it now appears that both will be taken in the final 10 selections of the first round.
# Despite uneven workout evaluations, the ranking of the quarterbacks is likely to remain unchanged from the scouting combine. Heading into Indianapolis, Matt Leinart, Vince Young and Jay Cutler were ranked 1-2-3 on the quarterback depth chart. – and that's how they'll likely come off the positional board this weekend.
# Florida State linebacker Ernie Sims, once considered a late first-round pick, has vaulted himself into the upper half of the draft. Conversely, Boston College defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka went from a projected top-10 pick in January to a likely second-round pick.
Here's how the first round figures to play out on Saturday:
Houston 1. Houston Texans – Reggie Bush, RB, USC. North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams is special, but coach Gary Kubiak loves the versatility of Bush. And picking Bush should help two other hefty investments pay off as well – quarterback David Carr and wide receiver Andre Johnson.
New Orleans 2. New Orleans Saints – Mario Williams, DE, North Carolina State. The Saints would like to drop back a few spots and pick up extra selections, but none of the quarterbacks has been stunning enough to force a team to move up. The Saints have two quality defensive ends, but Williams is a talent that won't be seen again for a while.
Tennessee 3. Tennessee Titans – Matt Leinart, QB, USC. Yes, we've heard all the rumblings lately about the Titans sliding Vince Young to the top of their quarterback board, but we're not buying it. Offensive coordinator Norm Chow knows what he's got in Leinart, and the game film doesn't lie. He's a winner and produces in big games. Young fits the same description, but Tennessee can't revamp its entire offense to fit his style.
N.Y. Jets 4. New York Jets – D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia. There is talk that the Jets could ship this pick and the No. 29 selection to San Francisco for the sixth and 22nd overall choices. If the Jets are forced to stand pat, Ferguson has been the best tackle in college the last two years. He is an immediate upgrade for a line that has seen its talent level take a hit.
Green Bay 5. Green Bay Packers – A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State. The Packers have upgraded the talent level on defense with the acquisitions of Ryan Pickett, Marquand Manuel and Charles Woodson. Hawk gives them one more playmaker at linebacker and adds depth to an injury-plagued unit.
San Francisco 6. San Francisco 49ers – Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland. A versatile defensive back like Michael Huff will be tempting, but Davis has the tools to be dominant. He has the size of Antonio Gates, with superior speed. No tight end in league history has strung together better workouts leading up to the draft. He's still refining parts of his game, but Davis should immediately jump to the top of Alex Smith's list of targets.
Oakland 7. Oakland Raiders – Vince Young, QB, Texas. Yes, the Raiders signed Aaron Brooks and they like backup Andrew Walter. But word in league circles is that Al Davis favors Young if he's there at this pick. Brooks gives the Raiders time to groom Young for a year, and Walter can eventually fill the role of the future No. 2. Given a year to develop, the combination of athletes – Young, Randy Moss, Jerry Porter and LaMont Jordan – could be the most difficult in the league for defensive coordinators to prepare for.
Buffalo 8. Buffalo Bills – Winston Justice, OT, USC. This could be a trade spot, with Philadelphia looking to potentially move up and grab Justice. If Buffalo doesn't get an attractive offer, the Bills like Justice and Oregon's Haloti Ngata. Justice protected Matt Leinart's blind-side last season, but he's athletic enough to switch to the left side, having put up better workout numbers than D'Brickashaw Ferguson.
Detroit 9. Detroit Lions – Michael Huff, CB/S, Texas. Coach Rod Marinelli could use a versatile playmaker with range for his Cover 2 defense. Huff could play safety or cornerback in the NFL and has been likened to Ed Reed. If Huff is off the board, the Lions would likely entertain trade offers and move back for another corner.
Arizona 10. Arizona Cardinals – Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt. Obviously, the goal for Dennis Green and his staff is to win games now. That would tend to push this pick toward an impact defensive player still left on the board. But free agency brought players geared toward winning immediately, and Cutler is an investment for the future. And yes, Green is bold enough to invest in the future even when nobody is sure if he has one in Arizona beyond 2006.
St. Louis 11. St. Louis Rams – Ernie Sims, LB, Florida State. The Rams need an upgrade at weakside linebacker, and Sims has bolted up draft boards while other outside linebackers like Iowa's Chad Greenway have faded. If Jay Cutler is still available, don't count out the QB, who's a favorite of head coach Scott Linehan. The Rams could also address the need at cornerback, but the attitude of Virginia Tech's Jimmy Williams has caused some teams to shy away.
Cleveland 12. Cleveland Browns – Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State. This pick should either be Bunkley or Florida State's Kamerion Wimbley, who would play outside linebacker in the 3-4 scheme. An outside linebacker is easier to find than an athletic player like Bunkley, who could generate a pass rush as a 3-4 defensive end.
Baltimore 13. Baltimore Ravens – Kamerion Wimbley, DE, Florida State. The Ravens could go with defensive tackle Haloti Ngata, but Wimbley is said to be rated in the top 10 on Baltimore's draft board. He would provide a quality pass rusher, but he'll have to gain weight to be more effective against the run as a traditional 4-3 defensive end.
Philadelphia 14. Philadelphia Eagles – Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon. The Eagles could trade up for Winston Justice if he slips beyond the 10th pick. Philadelphia could also break away from its traditional draft pattern and tab Florida wide receiver Chad Jackson. Andy Reid is more likely to stick with his typical first-round routine of bolstering his lines. If he doesn't trade up for Justice, the Eagles will opt for the other player they consider worthy of moving up to get – Ngata.
Denver 15. Denver Broncos – Chad Jackson, WR, Florida. Ashley Lelie is unhappy and has likely played his last season for the Broncos. He may be dealt on draft day. With Rod Smith aging and no other developed playmakers in the receiving corps, Jackson is the most sensible option.
Miami 16. Miami Dolphins – Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech. Williams is the biggest corner in the draft and excels in one-on-one coverage. He struggles in zone coverage, but fixing the flaws of cornerbacks is Nick Saban's favorite pet project. Williams has loads of talent and is a hitter, but his cocky attitude rubbed some teams the wrong way. Saban isn't afraid of taking talented players with big mouths – evidenced by last year's selection of linebacker Channing Crowder.
Continued:
Quote
Minnesota 17. Minnesota Vikings – Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa. Greenway has taken a slight jump up the boards of some teams after impressing in individual workouts. The Vikings' corps of linebackers is a mess. It needs talent and depth, and Greenway would provide both. His stock dropped after a poor combine, but it's hard to argue with the massive production he put up in college.
Dallas 18. Dallas Cowboys – Donte Whitner, S, Ohio State. Yes, the Cowboys signed Marcus Coleman from Houston, but there isn't a great deal of value at this pick for some of Dallas' other needs. Whitner has speed and range and can be effective against the run. Coleman is a one-year stop-gap; Whitner would add depth and a long-term starter at safety.
San Diego 19. San Diego Chargers – Jonathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina. The trade of Sammy Davis for Rashaun Woods eliminates the need to go after a receiver in this spot. Conversely, the deal strengthens the need for another talented corner. Joseph is just that. He's still raw after playing only one full season with the Gamecocks, but he has the overall package of tools to develop into an elite corner.
Kansas City 20. Kansas City Chiefs – Tye Hill, CB, Clemson. Santonio Holmes would be tough to pass up and might even be preferred. But cornerback is far more pressing. Hill would give the Chiefs a player they can immediately plug in as their nickel back and eventually push for starting time opposite Patrick Surtain. Defensive end Tamba Hali could be a candidate for this pick.
New England 21. New England Patriots – Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State. Beyond Deion Branch, the receiving corps lacks dependable options. Reche Caldwell is injury prone, Troy Brown is aging and Bethel Johnson hasn't developed. Holmes can be an impact player, and his biggest liability – his 5-foot-10 size – fits perfectly in the New England system. If the Patriots don't go with Holmes, a cornerback is the next best option.
San Francisco 22. San Francisco 49ers – Manny Lawson, OLB/DE, North Carolina State. Trading into this pick allows San Francisco to go after Vernon Davis at No. 6, and then address outside linebacker here. The 49ers have major needs at the position in their 3-4 scheme. Lawson, who posted elite numbers at the combine, fits perfectly. If Lawson isn't on the board, a cornerback or safety is the next best option.
Tampa Bay 23. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State. This will likely be a best-player-available scenario, with Cromartie representing a gamble with the potential for a huge payoff. Some teams think Cromartie is still tentative making cuts with the knee he injured before last season, but the talent in the Bucs' secondary will allow Tampa to work him into the Cover 2 scheme slowly.
Cincinnati 24. Cincinnati Bengals – Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia. The Bengals could reach here for one of the remaining cornerbacks to groom as Tory James' eventual replacement, but with tight end being arguably their top need, taking the top player at that position represents better value than one of the second-tier corners.
N.Y. Giants 25. New York Giants – Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State. The signing of LaVar Arrington doesn't erase the need for linebackers. The position is still a high priority, and the staff has been very impressed with Carpenter in workouts. Cornerback could also be an option, with Miami's Kelly Jennings and Ohio State's Ashton Youboty getting a look.
Chicago 26. Chicago Bears – Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State. The Bears have been keeping an eye on Sinorice Moss, but the secondary needs depth and a playmaker to push Charles Tillman. The playoff torching by Steve Smith isn't going to change until the secondary gets a talent upgrade, and Youboty has both speed and size. He could fill the nickel spot and eventually develop into a starter opposite Nathan Vasher.
Carolina 27. Carolina Panthers – DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis. Williams has proven his durability with Memphis, and that's a huge plus for the Panthers. There are no guarantees with DeShaun Foster's health, and the team doesn't seem to be sold on Eric Shelton. Circumstance – not talent – is going to push Williams down the draft board. To get him this late would be a steal.
Jacksonville 28. Jacksonville Jaguars – DeMeco Ryans, OLB, Alabama. Outside linebacker continues to be a glaring need, and it's looking less and less likely it will be addressed in free agency. Like Chad Greenway, Ryans has seen his stock take a hit over the last few months, and he didn't help himself running as slow as 4.7 seconds in his pro-day 40-yard dash. But his stellar college production in a tough conference should be enough to keep Ryans in the first round, no matter what his workout numbers are.
N.Y. Jets 29. New York Jets – LenDale White, RB, USC. This is a luxury pick. Center Nick Mangold would be more of a need pick here, but White is hard to pass up this late in the draft, even with the debacle over his weight and workout problems the last few months. Cedric Houston and Derrick Blaylock won't cut it when Curtis Martin hangs it up, and addressing the need now would give the Jets a year to get White's physique in order before he has to take over a full load.
Indianapolis 30. Indianapolis Colts – Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota. Maroney is another guy who has had workout issues when it comes to running, but that has nothing to do with his weight. It will be interesting to see what happens if LenDale White slips to this spot. Maroney, though, seems to fit the scheme better than White. So even if they are both available, Maroney appears to be the likelier pick. If the Colts go a different way, Bobby Carpenter could be the selection.
Seattle 31. Seattle Seahawks – Jason Allen, CB/S, Tennessee. Some teams think Allen has the tools to play both corner and safety. Seattle lost Andre Dyson in free agency and there could be some long-term depth issues at safety. This may end up being a best-available athlete situation.
Pittsburgh 32. Pittsburgh Steelers – Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State. The Steelers need someone to groom for the eventual departure of Jeff Hartings. There will be plenty of choices at this pick for the Steelers' needs, but offensive line and the running game are always high priorities. If LenDale White falls to this spot, he would be a natural complement to Willie Parker and the power running game the Steelers like to implement.
Charles Robinson is the national NFL writer for Yahoo! Sports. Send him a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.
Updated on Thursday, Apr 27, 2006 2:21 pm EDT
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 27, 2006, 01:04:35 PM
Pasquerelli and Clayton are doing their "interactive" live draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/news/story?id=2423861).
All done. They had Chad Jackson falling to #25 (Giants) and Chad Greenway falling to #28 (Jags). Weird.
I would be very surprised if the Eagles actually drafted Sims.
i dont know how true it is but it seems like sims stock is really rising...more and more people having him going before the eagles even pick
I would be doubly surprised if the Eagles drafted Sims.
He has concussion issues, plus he's a WIL.
I don't want Sims.
If they pick Sims it pretty much says they have no faith in Matt McCoy to be an effective NFL starter.
Sims could play SS on some downs. He could bulk up and play MLB. He could play multiple positions in the nickel.
I'm just saying... he's a player. The Eagles didn't make enough plays on defense last year to be too picky.
Hoge is getting to pick for the Eagles and they all started laughing about it, man I want to kill that guy.
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 27, 2006, 07:34:23 PM
Hoge is getting to pick for the Eagles and they all started laughing about it, man I want to kill that guy.
So, who'd he pick? Did he pick a FACTOR BACK?
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 27, 2006, 08:50:32 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on April 27, 2006, 07:34:23 PM
Hoge is getting to pick for the Eagles and they all started laughing about it, man I want to kill that guy.
So, who'd he pick? Did he pick a FACTOR BACK?
He picked Simms. But said they could use L.White because he's a..."factor back".
he took sims and couldnt remember his first name
"at #14 the philadelphia eagles take....SIMS"
Let's start a petition to have IGY replace Merril on ESPN.
The way their draft played out they could have taken Lawson, Wimbley, or Sims. If this was the case I am starting to lean more towards Manny Lawson or Wimbley and try them at LB and if it doesn't work they would at least have another dynamic pass rusher.
Take it FWIW, but when Eckel came on WIP he said basically:
Trust me, I know everyone is thinking Bunkley, but trust me, they want Ngata.
So we'll see.
Half of the reports out there are for Bunkley half or for Ngata and whatever is left is for Justice.
I hope it's Bunkley. I want a guy to penetrate into the backfield and disrupt.
I've got Bunkley in my mock.
But I will gladly take Ngata.
And Eckel now has put the kiss of death on Ngata. So he'll be somewhere else.
The more I hear about Ngata taking plays off, the more I am concerned. He had this wrap his senior year. But if he can stop the run what the hell - with Portis, Barber and Julius Jones twice a year, birds are gonna need a stopper.
I get a bad feeling about Ngata. Nothing I can point out statistically or anything. That plus I like a guy who disrupts the backfield in Bunkley.
I'll take either but I prefer Bunkley.
If the cost is too proibitive to move up or their targets are gone, how do you guys feel about the Eagles dropping out of the 1st altogether? According to KFFL, the Texans are looking to acquire another 1st round pick. Trading 14, 108, and 147 (1210), would get the Eagles 33, 65, 66, and 112 (1217). That's the top picks in the first four rounds.
In 2004, Houston traded their 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders to Tennessee for their 1st and 5th.
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 27, 2006, 11:39:00 PM
Take it FWIW, but when Eckel came on WIP he said basically:
Trust me, I know everyone is thinking Bunkley, but trust me, they want Ngata.
So we'll see.
Half of the reports out there are for Bunkley half or for Ngata and whatever is left is for Justice.
I hope it's Bunkley. I want a guy to penetrate into the backfield and disrupt.
We already have that in Mike Patterson. We need a DT who can push the middle, occupy some double teams so Patterson, Kearse and Howard can get loose... stop the run by not only plugging the middle... but keeping Trotter clean to flow to the ball.
I've got no problems with Bunkley, but that's one area where Ngata has an edge on him.
I think that if the Eagles wanted a guy like Bunkley, they would have gone after Tripplett or Bernard. I think there's a good chance they've been looking at Ngata for some time because of the different skillset and Mormon factor.
My opinion will probably change again tomorrow morning.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 28, 2006, 07:09:51 AM
My opinion will probably change again tomorrow morning.
I doubt it will take that long.
You were right. I now think the Eagles are trading up for A.J. Hawk.
Quote from: EagleFeva on April 28, 2006, 05:57:08 AM
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 27, 2006, 11:39:00 PM
Take it FWIW, but when Eckel came on WIP he said basically:
Trust me, I know everyone is thinking Bunkley, but trust me, they want Ngata.
So we'll see.
Half of the reports out there are for Bunkley half or for Ngata and whatever is left is for Justice.
I hope it's Bunkley. I want a guy to penetrate into the backfield and disrupt.
We already have that in Mike Patterson. We need a DT who can push the middle, occupy some double teams so Patterson, Kearse and Howard can get loose... stop the run by not only plugging the middle... but keeping Trotter clean to flow to the ball.
I've got no problems with Bunkley, but that's one area where Ngata has an edge on him.
Thats exactly how I feel about it, but Bunkley fits their MO.
if they trade up and DON'T take Huff, i'll be sad
Cold Pizza mock has the Eagles taking Chad Jackson with their 14th pick.
I farging hate mocks who have the Eagles selecting Chad Jackson. They pay no attention to the team at all, except to say, "Hey, they lost T.O, they must want only to get a WR in the first." Tards. The whole lot of them.
Is it because you dont like the guy and dont wont to see him picked, or you might think they might actually take him. Although we need help on both sides of the lines, and it has been stated, it wouldnt surprise me at all if they take the best WR on the board. Its all about how the chips fall in the draft
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on April 28, 2006, 09:08:28 AM
I farging hate mocks who have the Eagles selecting Chad Jackson. They pay no attention to the team at all, except to say, "Hey, they lost T.O, they must want only to get a WR in the first." Tards. The whole lot of them.
I was initially on that bandwagon but now I would rather see them go for a receiver in the second or third round.
No, it's just that most of them, when you read the little blurb for the Eagles pick says something like, "With the loss of T.O, the Eagles need another big play reciever, and SoAndSo is the answer." Like any of the rookies the mocks have us picking can come in and replace the production of a guy like T.O. It's retarded, and they obviously do zero research into how the team picks, or what the other needs are.
i dont think theres anything wrong with saying the eagles need to draft a wr since they lost TO...i mean the wr's are atrocious...the idiotic part is them thinking that reid is actually going to do it...so if they are saying thats what they will do then yes its retarded...if they are saying its what they should do then you cant hate
I hear ya Phan. What you say makes a lot of sense. These guy aren'tloking to make a nuanced analysis just picking the low hanging fruit that they think most people will find justified so that they can keep and mainain their unjustifiably large paychecks.
Quoteif they are saying its what they should do then you cant hate
Yeah but IGY as they say opinions are like arse-holes everybody has one.
These guys are supposed to be professionals. They should be giving a well thought out analysis and as accurate a prediction as possible. Why else do we need them if not? I think we do as good a job right here if that's the case.
They should be giving a well thought out analysis and as accurate a prediction as possible
a friggin monkey could tell you the eagles badly need a wr
u guys are overanalyzing this bigtime. All that is being said by reports is that we need to fill a void left at WR because of what the Eagles are left with, not a replacement for TO as far as his talent level. They are right: we need help and Jackson could very well do that. Thats all
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 28, 2006, 09:49:55 AM
They should be giving a well thought out analysis and as accurate a prediction as possible
a friggin monkey could tell you the eagles badly need a wr
Exacty my point IGY...they are picking the low hanging fruit and saying here's a need, here's a guy the Eagles could pick to fill it.
Everybody accross the nation knows what TO did here and what he didn't. Nobody knows what Hollis Thomas did or didn't do or much less Sam Rayburn.
Anybody that knows Reid and the way this organization does things knows that they will build from the inside out. Therefore, a more likely pick to call for the
Eagles is the best lineman available at that pick.
Rich Hoffman makes a good point in his article today, though. The Eagles are unlikely to go WR in first round, because that would be a pick that would theoretically help in the future a lot more than it would now. However, picking on either of the lines or at LB would probably be a player that would be plugged in to the starting lineup or at least compete for a starting job right away.
If they go RB, DB, or WR in the first round, that means they aren't trying to win this year.
where would Winston Justice line up this year im wondering.
Quote from: MURP on April 28, 2006, 11:19:34 AM
where would Winston Justice line up this year im wondering.
LG competition with wost manneans. The loser becomes the 6th/swing man at both OT positions and possibly both OG positions. I believe if the Eagles are targeting Justice, they would probably give him every opportunity to win the LG spot.
Or maybe Tra isn't nearly as healthy as we're all led to believe.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 28, 2006, 11:22:03 AM
Or maybe Tra isn't nearly as healthy as we're all led to believe.
I've been wondering about this. Things like Spadaro's columns on the PE site about guys with injuries, Buckhalter, Herremans, etc., but no mention of Tra or Pinkston being able to run. I haven't heard
much anything about how Tra has been doing. Also, has anyone heard if Pinky is even able to run yet?
yeah, it would be nice to know that our once #2 receiver is at least off the couch. Or, is he slowly withering away?
official draft day hat
how would sinorice look rockin an eagle one of these tomorrow
(https://www.profootballhof.com/assets/default/Houston_Draft_Day_Hat.jpg)
(http://www.fanzz.com/ProductImages/69950.jpg)
I think I would even I would look cool in that.
(http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/10-05/1016green.jpg)
Quote from: NGM on April 28, 2006, 12:37:58 PM
(http://www.fanzz.com/ProductImages/69950.jpg)
that hat would be cool if it didn't have that stupid looking logo on the back
i cant stand white hats...and i hate mesh...other than that :yay
New mock from Kiper today:
QuoteFirst-Round Projections
1. Houston Reggie Bush, RB* USC
2. New Orleans Mario Williams, DE* NC State
3. Tennessee Vince Young, QB* Texas
4. N.Y. Jets D'Brickashaw Ferguson, T Virginia
5. Green Bay A.J. Hawk, LB Ohio St.
6. San Francisco Vernon Davis, TE* Maryland
7. Oakland Ernie Sims, LB* Florida St.
8. Buffalo Brodrick Bunkley, DT Florida St.
9. Detroit Michael Huff, DB Texas
10. Arizona Matt Leinart, QB USC
11. St. Louis Jay Cutler, QB Vanderbilt
12. Cleveland Kamerion Wimbley, DE/OLB Florida St.
13. Baltimore Haloti Ngata, DT* Oregon
14. Philadelphia Chad Greenway, LB Iowa
15. Denver (from ATL) Santonio Holmes, WR* Ohio St.
16. Miami Antonio Cromartie, CB* Florida St.
17. Minnesota Jason Allen, CB/S Tennessee
18. Dallas Manny Lawson, OLB NC State
19. San Diego Winston Justice, T* USC
20. Kansas City Johnathan Joseph, CB* South Carolina
21. New England DeAngelo Williams, RB Memphis
22. San Francisco
(from DEN) Tye Hill, CB Clemson
23. Tampa Bay Marcus McNeill, T Auburn
24. Cincinnati Donte Whitner, DB* Ohio St.
25. N.Y. Giants Sinorice Moss, WR Miami
26. Chicago Chad Jackson, WR* Florida
27. Carolina Marcedes Lewis, TE UCLA
28. Jacksonville Nick Mangold, C Ohio St.
29. N.Y. Jets (from DEN) Bobby Carpenter, OLB Ohio St.
30. Indianapolis Laurence Maroney, RB* Minnesota
31. Seattle Jimmy Williams, CB Virginia Tech
32. Pittsburgh LenDale White, RB* USC
ugh
I've read the opinions in this thread about get Justice, don't get Justice, Justice is over/under rated...
I'm a bad draft fan. I follow the mocks, and by draft day I know the names and positions of the projected top 32 prospects. What I don't know are the real strengths and weaknesses for each.
What I have read about Justice is a great athlete with Top 5 results in every thing he participated in at the combine. His maturity seems to be the biggest hit against him. Everybody that writes about him says what tremendous upside he has with a little refinement on the position, and should be a star-caliber player very quickly.
Why wouldn't the Eagles draft him if he's still available (which almost all of the mocks show)? His stock has slipped the past two weeks, which could mean a bargain if he is still there at 14, right?
Looking for solid opinions backed by observations and facts...
He has had character issues. He got in trouble for getting involved with a prostitute and also the toy gun incident.
Plus they really don't need an OT this year. Next year maybe, but the Eagles have Herremans.
from everything ive heard justices stock has never been higher...whats happened in the last two weeks that would cause him to drop?...that would certainly make things a lot easier for the birds were he to fall
I'm too lazy to find the mocks, but I could have sworn mocks about 2 weeks ago had him in the Top 10...
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 28, 2006, 02:20:00 PM
He has had character issues. He got in trouble for getting involved with a prostitute and also the toy gun incident.
Plus they really don't need an OT this year. Next year maybe, but the Eagles have Herremans.
I don't buy those as a reason to NOT get a guy that can positively impact your team in Game 1 (hopefully).
Hell, I've done BOTH those exact things (one more than the other :paranoid ) and I got a job....
And the final picks are in: I think Kirwan is the man, so Im going with him and saying the Birds change their usual stategy and go with a LB in Sims. I'll take it
From NFL.com
Mayock
1. Houston: Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New Orleans: Mario Williams, DE, North Carolina State
3. Tennessee: Vince Young, QB, Texas
4. N.Y. Jets: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
5. Green Bay: A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio State
6. San Francisco: Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
7. Oakland: Michael Huff, S, Texas
8. Buffalo: Donte Whitner, S, Ohio State
9. Detroit: Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State
10. Arizona: Matt Leinart, QB, USC
11. St. Louis: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
12. Cleveland: Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
13. Baltimore: Ernie Sims, LB, Florida State
14. Philadelphia: Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State
15. Denver: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
16. Miami: Winston Justice, OT, USC
17. Minnesota: Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa
18. Dallas: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
19. San Diego: Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
20. Kansas City: Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State
21. New England: DeMeco Ryans, LB, Alabama
22. San Francisco: Johnathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina
23. Tampa Bay: Eric Winston, OT, Miami
24. Cincinnati: Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
25. N.Y. Giants: Jason Allen, DB, Tennessee
26. Chicago: Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA
27. Carolina: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
28. Jacksonville: Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College
29. N.Y. Jets: Kamerion Wimbley, DE, Florida State
30. Indianapolis: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
31. Seattle: Richard Marshall, CB, Fresno State
32. Pittsburgh: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
Kirwan
1. Houston: Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New Orleans: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
3. Tennessee: Matt Leinart, QB, USC
4. N.Y. Jets: Mario Williams, DE, North Carolina State
5. Green Bay: Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
6. San Francisco: Michael Huff, DB, Texas
7. Oakland: Vince Young, QB, Texas
8. Buffalo: Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State
9. Detroit: A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio State
10. Arizona: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
11. St. Louis: Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
12. Cleveland: Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
13. Baltimore: Winston Justice, OT, USC
14. Philadelphia: Ernie Sims, LB, Florida State
15. Denver: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
16. Miami: Manny Lawson, OLB/DE, North Carolina State
17. Minnesota: Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
18. Dallas: Kamerion Wimbley, OLB, Florida State
19. San Diego: Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State
20. Kansas City: Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State
21. New England: Donte Whitner, DB, Ohio State
22. San Francisco: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
23. Tampa Bay: Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State
24. Cincinnati: Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
25. N.Y. Giants: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
26. Chicago: Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA
27. Carolina: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
28. Jacksonville: Jason Allen, DB, Tennessee
29. N.Y. Jets: Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
30. Indianapolis: DeMeco Ryans, OLB, Alabama
31. Seattle: Kelly Jennings, CB, Miami
32. Pittsburgh: Ko Simpson, DB, South Carolina
Carucci
1. Houston: Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New Orleans: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
3. Tennessee: Matt Leinart, QB, USC
4. N.Y. Jets: Mario Williams, DE, N.C. State
5. Green Bay: Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
6. San Francisco: Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
7. Oakland: Vince Young, QB, Texas
8. Buffalo: A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio State
9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas
10. Arizona: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
11. St. Louis: Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
12. Cleveland: Manny Lawson, OLB, N.C. State
13. Baltimore: Winston Justice, OT, USC
14. Philadelphia: Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State
15. Denver: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
16. Miami: Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
17. Minnesota: Ernie Sims, OLB, Florida State
18. Dallas: Kamerion Wimbley, OLB, Florida State
19. San Diego: Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State
20. Kansas City: Johnathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina
21. New England: Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
22. San Francisco: Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
23. Tampa Bay: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
24. Cincinnati: DeMeco Ryans, OLB, Alabama
25. N.Y. Giants: Eric Winston, OT, Miami
26. Chicago: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State
27. Carolina: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
28. Jacksonville: Jason Allen, S, Tennessee
29. N.Y. Jets: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
30. Indianapolis: Davin Joseph, OG, Oklahoma
31. Seattle: Donte Whitner, S, Ohio State
32. Pittsburgh: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
2 of the 3 say Mangold at 14? .....Why?
because how we went out for Bentley
I think the Eagles are more likely to take Mangold than Sims, not that I would agree with that decision.
outside of a few highlites in these draft preview shows im not going to pretend having ever seen mangold play a single down of football....but good lord would he be a disasterous choice at 14
No center has been drafted in the first round in over a decade. Mangold is NOT that good.
I don't think going after Bentley necessarily means that they really want a center. I mean, who wouldn't want Bentley on their line? He's a frickin stud. So of course the Eagles would be interested. It doesn't mean that center is their #1 want right now.
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 28, 2006, 03:22:44 PM
No center has been drafted in the first round in over a decade.
2005- Chris Spencer
2003- Jeff Faine
1999- Damien Woody
Quote from: MURP on April 28, 2006, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on April 28, 2006, 03:22:44 PM
No center has been drafted in the first round in over a decade.
2005- Chris Spencer
2003- Jeff Faine
1999- Damien Woody
I read that somewhere today and blindly believed it. :yay
Patt...2 more bad posts, your out. 8)
I guess I shouldn't say that I absolutely agree with Philly Forever's last post then, even though I do.
in the last 30 years the highest a center has been taken is...yup....#14
Quote from: ice grillin you on April 28, 2006, 03:43:41 PM
in the last 30 years the highest a center has been taken is...yup....#14
and the Eagles eventually ended up with him at Center.
(http://www.pspvinkit.net/vinkit/images/x-files-5.gif)
And he sucked for the Eagles too.
Man, can you imagine the draft party at The Linc if they end up taking Greenway, Mangold or some other stiff?
I hope Spadaro has a bulletproof vest handy.
:-D
Eagles | Trying to move up higher in NFL Draft
Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:05:19 -0700
ESPN.com's John Clayton reports the Philadelphia Eagles are trying to trade to the No. 8 or No. 9 spot in the first round of the NFL Draft to select Florida State DT Brodrick Bunkley or Oregon DT Haloti Ngata. The Eagles aren't offering enough to get the Bills to give up the defensive tackle that fits their needs, Bunkley. If the price is right, though, the Bills could move from No. 8 to No. 14 and be able to get USC OT Winston Justice. The Eagles might have better success with the Lions, who have the ninth overall pick, but that would cost the Lions the player they want to draft.
i was just about to post that...
this screams of them actually wanting to move up, but lying about what player it's for
Quote from: Philly Forever on April 28, 2006, 04:24:57 PM
The Eagles aren't offering enough to get the Bills to give up the defensive tackle that fits their needs, Bunkley.
im shocked the Bills wont take Hollis for their pick.
:-D
The Eagles aren't that bad.
My guess is they are offered their first and a 3rd and a player, like Hollis.
The Bills probably say, add a 4th to that and it's a done deal or give is a 1st and your 2nd and the 8th pick is yours.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on April 28, 2006, 04:25:48 PM
i was just about to post that...
this screams of them actually wanting to move up, but lying about what player it's for
Don't be such a tease.
good to see you've fully assimilated to Hufftonia
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on April 28, 2006, 04:20:46 PM
Man, can you imagine the draft party at The Linc if they end up taking Greenway, Mangold or some other stiff?
I hope Spadaro has a bulletproof vest handy.
:-D
Shoulderpad Sean's Head just might explode. Worth the price of admission, IMO.
Is it just me or is there something very strange about this mock?
Carucci: 2006 Mock Draft
By Vic Carucci
National Editor, NFL.com
(April 28, 2006) -- In light of the Houston Texans' signing of North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams, I have adjusted my mock draft accordingly:
1. Houston: Mario Williams, DE, N.C. State
2. New Orleans: Reggie Bush, RB, USC
3. Tennessee: Matt Leinart, QB, USC
4. N.Y. Jets: D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
5. Green Bay: Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
With Brett Favre planning to return for another season, the Packers need to give him the best pass-catching playmaker in the draft. Davis has an extraordinary combination of size, speed and power. True, the Packers already have a decent tight end in Bubba Franks, but he misses a lot of time with injuries.
6. San Francisco: Haloti Ngata, DT, Oregon
Niners coach Mike Nolan needs that massive anchor in the middle of his defense, and 5-foot-11, 297-pound Anthony Adams is not the answer. The 6-4, 338-pound Ngata, with his remarkable strength, is.
7. Oakland: Vince Young, QB, Texas
The Raiders could very well trade up to get Young, but that might not be necessary. Young is a dynamic force and he would have time to watch and learn the finer points of quarterbacking mechanics before being inserted in the starting job. He is an enormously talented player, and if he consistently performs in the NFL the way he did in the Rose Bowl, this choice, if made this far down, will long be remembered as one of the great steals in league history.
8. Buffalo: A.J. Hawk, LB, Ohio State
Knowing that one player won't fix the many holes they have on both sides of the ball, the Bills would love to trade down for additional picks. Barring that, they would be thrilled if, in staying put, they had a chance to select an enormously talented athlete who has a phenomenal work ethic and who would be a perfect weakside starter in Dick Jauron's new 4-3 defense. Many other projections have them selecting Brodrick Bunkley, a defensive tackle from Florida State, but this spot seems a little too high for him. Safety-cornerback Michael Huff, from Texas, is another consideration.
9. Detroit: Michael Huff, DB, Texas
With the skills to be a top-flight cornerback, his original college position, or safety, Huff offers the kind of versatility that makes defensive-minded coaches such as Rod Marinelli drool.
10. Arizona: Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
There is plenty of talk the Cardinals are targeting USC offensive tackle Winston Justice, who did plenty to help his draft stock with highly impressive pre-draft workouts. However, the Cardinals must have someone in place to eventually take over for Kurt Warner, and Cutler's big-time arm provides a foundation for development.
11. St. Louis: Jimmy Williams, CB, Virginia Tech
Like Huff, Williams also can play corner or safety. His poor pre-draft workouts and attitude have raised some questions, but he still has plenty to offer athletically and new defensive coordinator Jim Haslett should find a way to make him productive.
12. Cleveland: Manny Lawson, OLB, N.C. State
In Romeo Crennel's continuing efforts to fortify his 3-4 defense, Lawson provides exceptional speed and strength.
13. Baltimore: Winston Justice, OT, USC
The Ravens have had one of the NFL's all-time best tackles, Jonathan Ogden, on the left side of their line. The time has come to begin grooming his replacement, and Justice looks as if he would be the right man for the role.
14. Philadelphia: Nick Mangold, C, Ohio State
The Eagles easily could go with a wide receiver here, and no doubt will give strong consideration to Chad Jackson of Florida or Santonio Holmes of Ohio State. Another possibility is outside linebacker. But they thought they were going to be able to upgrade at center by signing LeCharles Bentley in free agency, and ended up losing out to Cleveland. Jamaal Jackson performed well in place of injured Hank Fraley last season, but in Mangold the Eagles have a chance to get one of the better centers to emerge from the college ranks in recent years.
15. Denver: Chad Jackson, WR, Florida
The Broncos are rumored to be pursuing a trade for Javon Walker, but if they are still seeking a receiver at the time of their first-round choice, Jackson should be there.
16. Miami: Tye Hill, CB, Clemson
Hill's prowess in man-to-man and bump-and-run coverage is exactly what Nick Saban needs to be as aggressive as he wants to be in rushing the passer.
17. Minnesota: Ernie Sims, OLB, Florida State
The Vikings want a young quarterback in the wings to eventually replace Brad Johnson, and if Cutler falls this far, which is possible, they probably wouldn't hesitate to grab him. Otherwise, Sims gives them the speed and tackling ability to be a productive weakside linebacker in their 4-3 defense.
18. Dallas: Kamerion Wimbley, OLB, Florida State
History tells us Bill Parcells likes to methodically put his pass-rushing bookends in place. Last year it was DeMarcus Ware; this year it is Wimbley. When Parcells guided the Giants, it was Lawrence Taylor followed a year later by Carl Banks.
19. San Diego: Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State
The Chargers need immediate help in their secondary, and Cromartie looks to have enough talent and smarts to at least make a first-year contribution as a nickel back.
20. Kansas City: Johnathan Joseph, CB, South Carolina
Joseph is a playmaker who will force the action, exactly the profile of the type of defenders Herman Edwards wants in his defense.
21. New England: Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
Two good outside linebackers should be available at this point -- Carpenter and Chad Greenway of Iowa. They are similar in that they both have outstanding playmaking skills, considerable intelligence, and a true passion for the game. Carpenter, who has recovered from the broken leg he suffered in November, is about 16 pounds heavier than Greenway, and that figures to give him the edge with Bill Belichick.
22. San Francisco: Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
The 49ers are desperate for help at outside linebacker. Although Greenway wasn't overly impressive in pre-draft workouts, he still shows enough speed, toughness and hustle to satisfy Mike Nolan's requirements for an outside linebacker in his 3-4 scheme.
23. Tampa Bay: Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
Some projections have the Buccaneers going defense with this pick, but Jon Gruden's priority is to find playmakers for Chris Simms, and Holmes is extremely dangerous after the catch. This would be a bit of a slip for Holmes, but if the Eagles or Broncos don't select him at Nos. 14 or 15, he could be here for the taking.
24. Cincinnati: DeMeco Ryans, OLB, Alabama
Marvin Lewis can't rest until he gets his defense performing at the dominant level he achieved when he was a defensive coordinator in Baltimore. It's hard to believe there would still be another productive outside linebacker left with so many coming off the board by this point, but Ryans can help the Bengals with his quickness, instincts and relentlessness when rushing the quarterback. Thomas Howard, of Texas-El Paso, is another outside linebacker likely to be here.
25. N.Y. Giants: Eric Winston, OT, Miami
After picking up LaVar Arrington, the Giants are able to shift away from targeting an outside linebacker with this choice and, instead, can use it on a pretty good offensive tackle.
26. Chicago: Ashton Youboty, CB, Ohio State
At nearly 6-0 and 189 pounds, Youboty figures to have the size the Bears want from a cornerback in their Cover 2 scheme. He also has enough speed and athleticism to carve out an outstanding NFL career.
27. Carolina: DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
There's a gigantic gap between Bush and the next-best running back in the draft, but this is where the No. 2 man at the position, Williams, should go. The Panthers have all sorts of health issues in their offensive backfield, and Williams could help solve them.
28. Jacksonville: Jason Allen, S, Tennessee
The Jaguars secondary needs an infusion of youth, and Allen, fully recovered from a hip injury that caused him to miss most of last season, would be a welcome addition here.
29. N.Y. Jets: Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
The Jets need to find a replacement for aging Curtis Martin, and Maroney has the speed, size and toughness to fill those massive cleats well.
30. Indianapolis: Davin Joseph, OG, Oklahoma
The Colts could go with an outside linebacker here, and it's possible that Ryans could fall all the way to this spot. Howard would be another consideration. They also might consider USC's LenDale White, whose offseason has been a train wreck, to fill the running back hole created by Edgerrin James' departure. But the Colts also have a crying need for an offensive guard, and Joseph is the best in the draft at the position.
31. Seattle: Donte Whitner, S, Ohio State
The Seahawks fill a need with a solid player who does a nice job in zone coverage and can hold his own in man-to-man in nickel and dime schemes.
32. Pittsburgh: Ko Simpson, S, South Carolina
White could be here, and perhaps the Steelers would make him the power back replacement for Jerome Bettis. But Simpson, who offers an impressive combination of size (6-1 and 203 pounds) and playmaking ability, also would address a need and perhaps with less risk.
does Carucci predict that Bunkley will be dead by morning?
Exactly what I was thinking.
They reallu let one get by on that one.
Carucci and Mayock are smoking crack.
And if the Eagles draft Nick Mangold I will be looking to crack someones skull with a ball peen hammer.
TMQ on Kiper:
QuoteMel Kiper Watch: A man who makes his living obsessing about the NFL draft -- only in America! Though Kiper is often lampooned, the day ESPN put him on the air was an important day in football annals. First, Kiper's example allowed millions of Americans to come out as draftniks. At this time of year, very large numbers of people have intense, strongly held convictions regarding football prospects they may never have seen perform. Mel's example made it all right to be a draftnik -- the man makes his living talking about this stuff! Everybody laughs at Mel's hair, but deep down, there are significant numbers who wish they could exchange occupations with Kiper. And I don't mean just miners or stevedores who would trade places with Mel in order to exchange dangerous or exhausting work for sitting in an air-conditioned office. Many doctors, lawyers and business managers would trade occupations with Kiper in a New York minute, because a huge number of Americans simply love the draft, and Kiper lives in the draftnik world 365 days a year.
Kiper is significant in another way, too. His example made it OK for men (and, increasingly, women) to admit they are totally obsessed with football. Obsessed is the key word. Before Kiper, people watched NFL or college games, and maybe the occasional highlight show, and now and then absentmindedly thumbed through a football annual. Kiper made it OK to be obsessed about football, to watch every last game that's on, to read every last sentence that's written, to pore over stats and tapes. In this sense, Mel Kiper Jr. has made a greater positive contribution to the incredible financial success of the National Football League than all but a few people in broadcasting. Watching him on his perch at Radio City on Saturday, I reflected on the fact that the respectable media and football worlds refuse to honor Kiper: he's too out-there, too goofy. Yet many respectable-media types who snicker at Kiper privately know he has accomplished more than they have. His was a central role in the last two decades of the promotion of professional and college football, helping inspire round-the-clock viewing and, now, round-the-clock Internet following. And Kiper has been a populist influence, expressing in his own inimitable way this message: anyone can figure this stuff out, The Experts don't know anything you can't know. I say in full seriousness that someone needs to give Mel Kiper an award. Think what you will about the pompadour: Kiper's contribution to broadening the base of public interest in football exceeds that of most famed broadcasters and sportswriters and of most NFL executives, for that matter.
These things said, part of the fun of Kiper is watching him be all over the map. This year he issued five mock drafts, each contradicting the one before. Mel had the Dolphins going first for Winston Justice, or Ashton Youboty, or Donte Whitner, or Antonio Cromartie; they actually used their first selection on Jason Allen. "If Justice is available, he has got to be the call for Miami," Mel foresaw; Justice was available and was not the call.
Kiper had the Bucs going first for Cromartie, or Marcus McNeill, or Chad Greenway; they actually used their first-rounder on Davin Joseph. Kiper had Dallas investing its first choice on Jason Allen, or Chad Jackson, or Manny Lawson; the Cowboys chose Bobby Carpenter. Kiper had DeAngelo Williams going as high as 10th or as low as 22nd, being picked by Arizona or New England or Denver; Williams went 27th to Carolina. Kiper had Tamba Hali going as high as 12th to Cleveland or as low as the second round; he went 20th to Kansas City. On March 6, Kiper predicted Oakland would use the seventh overall choice on quarterback Jay Cutler; on March 27, Kiper said "it would be odd" if Oakland used its first pick on a quarterback. (Oakland passed on Cutler.) With its first pick, Jacksonville "could go one of two ways, Thomas Howard or Deuce Lutui." Both were available when Jax picked, and the team went a third way. At various points, Mel had the Chargers taking Tye Hill or Justice or Jonathan Joseph or Santonio Holmes; San Diego took Cromartie. At various points Kiper predicted the Eagles would take Justice or Holmes or Jackson or Ernie Sims or Greenway; they took Brodrick Bunkley. Surely if any one of his multiple forecasts for any of these teams had been correct, Mel would have claimed to have predicted it!
Kiper's player comments are similarly all over the map. Davin Joseph was chosen in the first round; two months before the draft, Mel said Joseph "has a chance to be a second-round pick." Mark Anderson: "He could be a second-round pick." Anderson went in the fifth round. A month before the draft, Kiper called Kellen Clemens "a late-round possibility." Then Kiper forecast Clemens as a second-round choice. As Clemons was chosen in the second round, by Jersey/B (aka the Jets), Kiper said, "That's a little high for Clemens, considering Brodie Croyle is still available." In his own final mock, Mel had Clemens going before Croyle. When Detroit took Daniel Bullocks early in round two, Kiper said, "That's where I thought for him, early round two." In all his mock drafts, Mel had Bullocks going either late round two or below the second round. Kiper predicted of Denver's first choice, "They could get a wide receiver or running back. Their key area is defensive end." Denver used its first choice on a quarterback. The Panthers, Kiper said, "would be hard-pressed to pass on Mercedes Lewis." They passed on Mercedes Lewis. For the Titans to choose Matt Leinart would be "a no-brainer." The Titans passed on Leinart. Of course there are hundreds of prospects, and Kiper was exactly right about some of their destinations: he forecast Nick Mangold to the Jets with the 29th selection, for example. But Kiper makes draft predictions the way Kobe Bryant takes shots: they both launch so many that one or two have to fall. My favorite Kiperism this year? When Donte Whitner went eighth overall, Mel said, "That's about right. I had him going 16th to Miami, but that's still about right." Kiper did have Whitner going 16th to Miami -- in a January mock. The day before the draft, he forecast Whitner to Cincinnati at the 24th slot. Kiper couldn't keep his own predictions straight. And who could blame him?
full TMQ (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/060502)
i was always under the impression that mels mocks were who he thinks the team should take not will take