Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Eagles_Legendz]

No one is saying the US hasn't committed atrocities or that we're innocent actors.  But intent matters.  The US is not inflicting maximum damage on civilian targets.  They just aren't.  Saying it's the same as intentionally murdering women and children is wrong.

[Sgt PSN]

I guess if you want to define terrorism as broadly and vaguely as possible, then sure, US actions in Iraq and Vietnam would definitely qualify.  Of course, that means every country that has ever engaged in war or any other type of armed conflict is a terrorist nation.  It would also mean that every school yard bully is a farging terrorist.   

This country/gov't certainly has more than it's fair share of innocent blood on it's hands, but it does not conduct terrorist operations.  But what the farg do I know?  I didn't spend 6 years working in counter-terrorism units.  I'll definitely defer to the expertise of ditch diggers and whatever the farg Rome does. 

[ice grillin you]

we obliterated the Indians off the face off North America and basically haven't let up since

[Eagaholic]

I think it's largely a matter of era. Our scorched earth policies in Vietnam and especially Korea might approach something like ISIS, in as much as once you cross a certain line of atrocity the degree is a moot point, it's still committing terrorism. Korea was so ridiculous it approached the theater of the absurd (yes, pun intended) - as if somebody saw a rabbit that could possibly be used for North Korean food an airstrike was called in. Propping up dictators like the Shah of Iran and Ngo Dinh Diem in South Vietnam was being complicit at best for that which today we call terrorism. And now we have the ayatollahs and Kim Jongs (backed by Russia) as karma to show for it.

But in the contemporary era I don't think we have anything to compare to the acts we had committed in the past. There are isolated incidents, like Abu Ghraib for example, but the key point is that that they are not in keeping with policy and are in violation of their orders. State sanctioned torture like waterboarding was unfortunately still practiced but that was reserved for particularly targeted actors, not innocent people.

[ice grillin you]

Sherman invented scorched earth

[Eagaholic]

Actually it goes back to at least 2000 bc I believe, but as an American practice, yes. Unless you count Plymouth Rock.

[ice grillin you]

and perfected in Japan

[PhillyPhreak54]

https://twitter.com/funder/status/866428069275480065

I'd love to see this farg go down with the rest of the rats

[Tomahawk]

No one is saying the US hasn't committed atrocities or that we're innocent actors.  But intent matters.  The US is not inflicting maximum damage on civilian targets.  They just aren't.  Saying it's the same as intentionally murdering women and children is wrong.

We may not be specifically targeting women and children, but we don't have an issue with intentionally killing them if they, by virtue of being at the wrong place at the wrong time, interfere with our military objective.

We're not inflicting maximum damage, but our intent isn't noble.

[Rome]

I guess if you want to define terrorism as broadly and vaguely as possible, then sure, US actions in Iraq and Vietnam would definitely qualify.  Of course, that means every country that has ever engaged in war or any other type of armed conflict is a terrorist nation.  It would also mean that every school yard bully is a farging terrorist.   

This country/gov't certainly has more than it's fair share of innocent blood on it's hands, but it does not conduct terrorist operations.  But what the farg do I know?  I didn't spend 6 years working in counter-terrorism units.  I'll definitely defer to the expertise of ditch diggers and whatever the farg Rome does.

I never said it conducted specific "terror" operations, Sassy.  It's not like we have a UBL sitting in a hookah bar dreaming up ways to kill women and children.  We do, however, have graduates of West Point & Annapolis planning the incineration of the species and we've been responsible for the deaths of untold millions of innocent civilians.  That may not fit your definition of a sponsor of terror but you can't deny our culpability in their deaths.

You can't do what we do and act like we act on the world stage and not expect motherfargers to be gunning for us.  Our innocent civilians don't deserve getting murdered any more than theirs do.  That's the truth, Sir.

And I'm a shepherd, incidentally.  :-)

[Diomedes]

The argument should be one of magnitude.  At what point do the sheer number of people killed (mostly) unintentionally by US invasion overtake a much smaller magnitude of civilians killed purposefully.  If you want to argue the US is a bad actor on the international stage due to numbers, that's a debate worth having.  Trying to directly equate American actions to ISIS/Al Qaeda based on the actual underlying conduct cheapens the overall point.

well said

Sherman invented scorched earth

Sherman did not target civilians. He targeted the means by which the enemy could sustain itself.  Farms, railroads, etc.  Don't feed the lost cause narrative with this kind of thing.  Sherman was in fact merciful.

I think intent does matter, but it's a weak ass defense given how many exceptions to the rule can be highlighted by even the most barely educated people.  The United States has so much dirty blood on its hands, and the world such a long (and imaginative) memory, that on balance the difference between intent or unfortunate unavoidable consequence is squat.  Regardless how we parse these words, its a fact that billions of humans on earth, with whom we all have to live and whose decisions and attitudes affect us, carry in their deepest hearts fear and hatred for the invading, enslaving, murdering Americans.

I don't blame them.

[Rome]

I don't know if anyone here has gone through Trump's budget proposal, but it will be absolutely cataclysmic for the elderly, the poor, the working poor, the middle class and pretty much everyone else who isn't rich enough to not care about money at all.

My God what a total farging disaster.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Reading his budget, watching the Phillies or drink bleach?

[Rome]

I would laugh at all the poor imbeciles who voted for this fargface getting reamed by him, but it's actually legitimately tragic and not the least bit funny.

This is 1928 and Herbert Hoover on steroids is about to drive America into a ditch that will take decades to recover from. 

And kids, I don't have many decades left on this rock.  If I have a good 20 years left, I'll be amazed, so that means I'd enjoy maybe 5-10 years of retirement before I die, and it's looking more and more that my retirement fund will be insolvent and social security and medicare will be gone or gutted beyond reason.

[Tomahawk]

If you're retirement plan is speedballs and hookers you don't need a whole lot of money.