07/08 Phillies Offseason Thread

Started by MDS, October 07, 2007, 01:02:14 AM

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BigEd76

#45
Dubee and Steve Smith might be gone because of it.  Manuel said he'd only accept a 1-yr deal if he could bring back all of his coaches.  Radano thinks all of them will be back though...

ice grillin you

jesus christ i cant believe how many of you people settle....they were one of the worst teams to ever make the MLB playoffs and their manager single handedly lost them one game in the series....a manager that is one of the worst tatically ive ever seen...on top of that you have an offseason that is setting up to be great for available managers....and you people are happy...wtf?...you have to wonder if the city even deserves a title after all these years with moves like this and fan support for them
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

PhillyPhreak54

Its amazing that y'all can't see that he did a good job. He ran pitching into the ground? Well shtein! He only had three relievers to use at the end who were worth a shtein. And when Myers and Gordon were out he had nothing - so when they get back healthy you use them over and over and over because the other guys who the GM signed were garbage.

MDS

alright angelo, because kyle lohse gives up a gs hr to kaz matsui, manuel lost them a playoff game. the farging top of the lineup choked. what the farg else is there to say about that series.

manuel is horrible tactical manager. he ran his pitching into the ground because he only had 3 good relievers out of the pen. no one blamed him for using them so much. its better to pitch them until their arms fall off than take your chances with mesa or alf. gillick needs to give him better pitching.
Zero hour, Michael. It's the end of the line. I'm the firstborn. I'm sick of playing second fiddle. I'm always third in line for everything. I'm tired of finishing fourth. Being the fifth wheel. There are six things I'm mad about, and I'm taking over.

ice grillin you

what yous dont undertsand is that the team can have bad pitching and a horrid manager...the two are not mutually exclusive...btw the bullpen was lights out the last month plus of the season...and even in the post season it was the manager/hitting coach and the offense that failed them...im not sure what was more inexcusable putting in lohse in a bases loaded situation or bringing in jose mesa in a playoff game...two back to back moves that a AAA manager shouldnt be making much less a guy in the mlb playoffs...i guess you all missed the numerous games in the regular seaosn he blew as well

im sorry but if you think charlie manager is a good manager i have to question your knowledge of the game...maybe like the ownership youre happy with an embarrassing showing in the playoffs (if they even make the playoffs next year) but im not....we deserve more and more starts with getting a competant mlb manager for the team
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

SD_Eagle5

First manager in 14 years to make the playoffs is why he got the extension. There were some decent ones who couldn't muster what he did from this bunch. Gillick needs to do a better job moreso than grandpa does. Not to mention, who besides Girardi would be a better option at this point?

MDS

i dont think manuel is a good manager. really no one does. rather, the guys on the team really like him and play hard for him. its a good group of guys and it works. managers blow games all the time, good and bad. if this team had a good bullpen april-august, the phils probably have a few more wins and still win the nl east and stay play colorado in the first round.

blaming him for losing the rockies series, or even one game, is silly. mesa is farging awful. but his other options were alf and condrey. great selection. yes, he overused the "experience" factor by using 1000 year old fossil and pulling kendrick that early, but the phils had 10000 reasons to quit this year and manuel didnt let it happen. for that, he deserves credit.
Zero hour, Michael. It's the end of the line. I'm the firstborn. I'm sick of playing second fiddle. I'm always third in line for everything. I'm tired of finishing fourth. Being the fifth wheel. There are six things I'm mad about, and I'm taking over.

Geowhizzer

I would have been estatic to get a new manager (I heard Joe Torre may be available in a few days).  But I also knew that Cholly would be back.

1.  Gillick has pretty much said that 2008 is going to be his last year.  No Joe Torre-type manager is coming to Philly with a lame-duck GM.

2.  Cholly took a team that seemed dead in the water and guided them to the NL East title.  Now, one may question how much credit he deserves for that, but remember how long the Phils kept Danny Ozark (no Einstein himself) with three straight  NLCS losses - it took the 1979 disaster to get him canned.  If they had canned him in 1977, that team could have been World Champs in 1978 with a real manager.  But they kept him on for loyalty - and that was the Phils' best owner and GM in their sordid history.  The Phils just were not going to can Cholly after winning the division.

3.  He's extremely popular with the players.   Especially if the Phils let Rowand walk, they need something to keep the players happy.

ice grillin you

Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 09, 2007, 10:40:52 PM
There were some decent ones who couldn't muster what he did from this bunch.

link?

Quote from: MDS on October 09, 2007, 10:43:09 PM
blaming him for losing the rockies series, or even one game, is silly. mesa is farging awful. but his other options were alf and condrey. great selection. yes, he overused the "experience" factor by using 1000 year old fossil and pulling kendrick that early, but the phils had 10000 reasons to quit this year and manuel didnt let it happen. for that, he deserves credit.

deserving credit for something and being a good manager are not the same thing...again youre settling...

and lol @ keeping a horrible manager because he doesnt upset pat burrell and "the guys like him"...be still my heart that is so sweet....detroit likes jim leyland and the rockies like clint hurdle and lost of players like their manager...this is the most sheep excuse ive ever heard for keeping a hack around...way to fall into the trap

again its not an either or scenario...there is such a thing as having a manager the players like who is also a good manager...stop being sucked in by the organizational rhetoric

i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

ice grillin you

I would have been estatic to get a new manager (I heard Joe Torre may be available in a few days).  But I also knew that Cholly would be back.

larussa too...like i said its a great offseason for managers...but youre right they took this hack over jim leyland i dont know why i ever thought there was a chance of getting someone like those two guys this year
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous

SD_Eagle5

Quote from: ice grillin you on October 09, 2007, 10:49:18 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 09, 2007, 10:40:52 PM
There were some decent ones who couldn't muster what he did from this bunch.

link?

I was more or less referring to Bowa and to a lesser extent Francona. They didn't have this bunch but they certainly had enough talent to make the playoffs.
Quote from: MDS on October 09, 2007, 10:43:09 PM
blaming him for losing the rockies series, or even one game, is silly. mesa is farging awful. but his other options were alf and condrey. great selection. yes, he overused the "experience" factor by using 1000 year old fossil and pulling kendrick that early, but the phils had 10000 reasons to quit this year and manuel didnt let it happen. for that, he deserves credit.

Its also not his fault Utley, Rollins, and Howard couldn't hit for shtein. Not only that but they struck out at an alarming rate (except for Howard who's 7 k's over 3 games was par by his standards).

Geowhizzer

Francona didn't have nearly the talent on the Phils that Cholly did this year:

Here was his "everday" players (the ones with the most games listed first):

C - Mike Lieberthal (108 games) or Tom Prince
1B - Pat Burrell (111 games, 58 at 1B) or Travis Lee or Rico Brogna
2B - Mickey Morandini (98 games) or Kevin Jordan or Marlon Anderson
SS - Desi Relaford (83 games) or Alex Arias or Tomas Perez
3B - Scott Rolen (128 games) or Kevin Jordan
LF - Ron Gant (89 games) or Pat Burrell
CF - Doug Glanville
RF - Bobby Abreu

And their starting pitching:
SP - Curt Schilling (6-6, 3.91 before he was traded)
SP - Randy Wolf (11-9, 4.36)
SP - Andy Ashby (4-7, 5.68)
SP - Robert Person (9-7, 3.63)
SP - Paul Byrd (2-9, 6.31)
SP - Bruce Chen (3-4, 3.63)
SP - Omar Daal (2-9, 4.69)

And their "relief":
CL - Jeff Brantley (2-7, 5.86, 23 saves)

reese125

#57
This whole thing of players "wanting" to play for Manuel and he brings out the best in them is horseshtein. If you believe that, your kidding yourself. You think hes a motivator in any way?

They play for themselves, and the fact they know they have a shot every game because of their offense. It keeps them competitive and has them believing they can make the playoffs with what they have.

Its sure has hell not "because" of Manuel. He might be the worst baseball strategist ever when it comes to in-game decisions. Its embarrassing, and it was unfortunate the Mets shtein the bed or he would be c-ya bye.

SunMo

Quote from: MDS on October 09, 2007, 10:43:09 PM
i dont think manuel is a good manager. really no one does. rather, the guys on the team really like him and play hard for him. its a good group of guys and it works

except in the playoffs, when you need someone to manage a game
I'm the Anti-Christ. You got me in a vendetta kind of mood.

ice grillin you

Quote from: SunMo on October 10, 2007, 08:52:43 AM
Quote from: MDS on October 09, 2007, 10:43:09 PM
i dont think manuel is a good manager. really no one does. rather, the guys on the team really like him and play hard for him. its a good group of guys and it works

except in the playoffs, when you need someone to manage a game


or in close games...hes a super manager when the offense puts up 14 runs...however in one run games he was 14-23
i can take a phrase thats rarely heard...flip it....now its a daily word

igy gettin it done like warrick

im the board pharmacist....always one step above yous